Need advice on direction of cooling. 9 fans isn't enough apparently.

[NorKris]

4 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

Something like a peerless assassin has absolutely massive surface area, 

not that big, and does not benefit from 3 fans

[PDifolco]

11 minutes ago, NorKris said:

no? 

the bigger surface area

the bigger area for fresh air

the front intake 

the push pull benefit 

and the fact that nhd 15 was beat by a 120  

I'm still unclear about your points ...

First no 120mm AIO beats a NH-D15 (unless some stupid contraption with a 80mm rad and a 3300rpm fan..), and the NH-D15 isn't the best aircooler anymore for recent architectures

But that's not the point, what do you suggest exactly that would compare with "get a Arctic LF III put it on top" ?

[NorKris]

3 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

I'm still unclear about your points ...

that the chances of less surface area to beat more is ... weeell

4 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

First no 120mm AIO beats a NH-D15

Hardwarecanucks did cheat with new fans but still  

 

5 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

the NH-D15 isn't the best aircooler

i know

[NorKris]

look at the pic from HW canucks we do see that  our OPs cooler in 120 version is the worst. but  120AIO on 155w  would indicate that the 360 version can deal with 200w 

[jaslion]

33 minutes ago, NorKris said:

can u tell me that happens when u   front mount / intake mount    an AIO?

Better temps

 

Regardless if you check a couple gamers nexus reviews and use the nhd15 as a comperative point you'll see that before they dropped the ml360/ml240 due to poor performance that it was performing simply put badly.

 

Its a bad cooler for the price and ia not enough for a 13900k at all

[NorKris]

2 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Better temps

so much better that no air can .. uknow

2 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Regardless if you check a couple gamers nexus reviews and use the nhd15 as a comperative point you'll see that before they dropped the ml360/ml240 due to poor performance that it was performing simply put badly

might be true but.. they have tested worse  

 

2 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Its a bad cooler for the price 

maybe... 

3 minutes ago, jaslion said:

ia not enough for a 13900k at all

i dont agree 

[PDifolco]

31 minutes ago, NorKris said:

that the chances of less surface area to beat more is ... weeell

Hardwarecanucks did cheat with new fans but still  

 

i know

But that's at 155W, any decent aircooler or 120mm AIO perform more than good and mostly similarly, the variations are due to fan quality/speed/noise/curve, or case airflow (an AIO will perform the better the case is choked vs an aircooler..)  and don't matter anyway

Here we're talking 250W+, nothing short of a good 360 AIO makes sense  

 

[NorKris]

1 minute ago, PDifolco said:

But that's at 155W, any decent aircooler or 120mm AIO perform more than good and mostly similarly

 

ye i can agree with this  

 

2 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

Here we're talking 250W+, nothing short of a good 360 AIO makes sense  

but are u saying that:
when the 120version of the cooler does 88c on 155w exhaust,  u dont think the 360 can do 210w intake?

 

aaand the 120 was noise "capped"

[jaslion]

8 minutes ago, NorKris said:

ye i can agree with this  

 

but are u saying that:
when the 120version of the cooler does 88c on 155w exhaust,  u dont think the 360 can do 210w intake?

 

aaand the 120 was noise "capped"

It doesnt scale like that. The pump is the same but now there is more water to move through more cooler which simply means it goes slower which has an impact on efficient heat exchange.

 

The ml 360 has been tried on a 12900k and 13900k many times and it just doesnt do it without a good undervolt because its a crap aio. Thin rad, weakest asetek pump and low end fans

[NorKris]

6 minutes ago, jaslion said:

It doesnt scale like that. The pump is the same but now there is more water to move through more cooler which simply means it goes slower which has an impact on efficient heat exchange.

 

it does not slow down that much

 

9 minutes ago, jaslion said:

The ml 360 has been tried on a 12900k and 13900k many times and it just doesnt do it without a good undervolt because its a crap aio. Thin rad, weakest asetek pump and low end fans

agree to disagree i guess.  my ML 240p mirage did 310w on my  7940 cpu  

[PDifolco]

5 hours ago, NorKris said:

ye i can agree with this  

 

but are u saying that:
when the 120version of the cooler does 88c on 155w exhaust,  u dont think the 360 can do 210w intake?

 

aaand the 120 was noise "capped"

No coolers have max heat dissipation capacity, a sort of cap, they work ok under and at one point they saturate and CPU throttles

Performance at 155W don't tell anything about performance at 250W, it can be near as good or abysmally worse 

[NorKris]

7 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

No coolers have max heat dissipation capacity, a sort of cap, they work ok under and at one point they saturate and CPU throttles

Performance at 155W don't tell anything about performance at 250W, it can be near as good or abysmally worse 

will tell u   "ish"  at over 200w 

[PDifolco]

7 minutes ago, NorKris said:

will tell u   "ish"  at over 200w 

200W is already a lot, and most single tower coolers, some dual towers and 120 AIO can't manage it, 240 are usually ok"ish"

But it also depends on the chip, the mounting system, the case, etc..

[NorKris]

3 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

200W is already a lot, and most single tower coolers, some dual towers and 120 AIO can't manage it, 240 are usually ok"ish"

But it also depends on the chip, the mounting system, the case, etc..

yep but its not like that 120aio list is going to complelty flip on its head closer to 200w or over   one after one  from the bottom its going to make cpus  thermal throttle

[PDifolco]

9 minutes ago, NorKris said:

yep but its not like that 120aio list is going to complelty flip on its head closer to 200w or over   one after one  from the bottom its going to make cpus  thermal throttle

Probably, but not sure neither, esp. with noise normalized testing you don't know what fan speed margin remains, and problem with 120 AIO vs aircoolers is that they can only have one fan (push pull is possible but not really practical on them)

[NorKris]

6 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

 and problem with 120 AIO vs aircoolers is that they can only have one fan (push pull is possible but not really practical on them)

why?

[PDifolco]

1 minute ago, NorKris said:

why?

They're often used rear and 2nd fan can't fit, even else slapping 2 fans on them is less efficient than on a heatsink, first because the rad material is more dense, second because the heatsink fans also cool the case interior and keep inside temps lower, not aio fans

[NorKris]

Just now, PDifolco said:

They're often used rear and 2nd fan can't fit, even else slapping 2 fans on them is less efficient than on a heatsink, first because the rad material is more dense, second because the heatsink fans also cool the case interior and keep inside temps lower, not aio fans

i would argue the opposite:  the water in a 120 would get hotter faster and get hotter than 240 and 360, therefore it would benefit more from air moving thru it faster than a 240 or 360 would,  and lets say that the only 120 the smart ppl on this forum would suggest (arctics) has a thicc'r rad  

 

and every rad should be front intake

[PDifolco]

24 minutes ago, NorKris said:

i would argue the opposite:  the water in a 120 would get hotter faster and get hotter than 240 and 360, therefore it would benefit more from air moving thru it faster than a 240 or 360 would,  and lets say that the only 120 the smart ppl on this forum would suggest (arctics) has a thicc'r rad  

 

Not sure but makes sense, noone tested that tho

 

24 minutes ago, NorKris said:

and every rad should be front intake

No rad should be front intake  

It makes the inside of the case and the GPU hotter and has no counterbalancing benefit

[NorKris]

3 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

No rad should be front intake  

what is the hardest part to cool down?

 

4 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

GPU hotter 

how much?

[PDifolco]

Just now, NorKris said:

what is the hardest part to cool down?

 

how much?

What do you mean ?

Putting the rad front don't help cooling anything... I'd say you can gain 3-5C on the GPU with unblocked fans blowing cool air rather than reduced flow of hot air  

Less true if you also have bottom intake fans tho

[NorKris]

6 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

What do you mean ?

Putting the rad front don't help cooling anything... I'd say you can gain 3-5C on the GPU with unblocked fans blowing cool air rather than reduced flow of hot air  

Less true if you also have bottom intake fans tho

the avg gain on the cpu on all the tests i have seen is - 7c   and +2 c on the gpu

 

and cpus are hard, gpus  easy   

 

front intake rads are  easy math 

[PDifolco]

Just now, NorKris said:

the avg gain on the cpu on all the tests i have seen is - 7c   and +2 c on the gpu

 

and cpus are hard, gpus  easy   

 

front intake rads are  easy math 

You got -7C on an AIO with front rad vs the same AIO elsewhere ? Makes no sense unless the rig has no other intake fan, maybe...

And my GPU is harder to cool than my CPU, 400W to 200 (even only 120W gaming)...

[NorKris]

12 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

You got -7C on an AIO with front rad vs the same AIO elsewhere ? Makes no sense unless the rig has no other intake fan, maybe...

wuut? the coldest air in the room / suroundings of the pc is taken directly into  cpu cooling,  its not making sense for u..? im sry wut

 

12 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

And my GPU is harder to cool than my CPU, 400W to 200 (even only 120W gaming)...

if u put a 240 aio on ur cpu 80c?  same aio on gpu,  50c maybe    (56c, (525w) tested on 4090 by paul)

[PDifolco]

5 minutes ago, NorKris said:

wuut? the coldest air in the room / suroundings of the pc is taken directly into  cpu cooling,  its not making sense for u..? im sry wut

 

Nope... Intake air flowing through an hot rad won't be cool, and not much will go through anyway due the rad acting as a barrier

 

7 minutes ago, NorKris said:

if u put a 240 aio on ur cpu 80c?  same aio on gpu,  50c maybe 

Using a 280 AIO, max 80C in CB24 runs, gaming around 70C, 5900X is not a very hot chip

GPU goes up to 75C with max power limits... and hotspot at 102C due to the bad cooler contact/pressure