High Temps on 14600k

[Dream Driver 47]

Ive been getting really high temps on my 14600k even though im using a nhd15 which should be enough to cool it but apparently its not cause i average around 80-90 degrees while playing games and 50-70 while doing light tasks, does anyone have any suggestions as to how i can get it to run cooler?

[starsmine]

4 minutes ago, Dream Driver 47 said:

Ive been getting really high temps on my 14600k even though im using a nhd15 which should be enough to cool it but apparently its not cause i average around 80-90 degrees while playing games and 50-70 while doing light tasks, does anyone have any suggestions as to how i can get it to run cooler?

Is it thermal throttling at load or is it stable at load? 80s is well inside spec, but if its actually throttling there are tools such as a replacement retention hold down bracket from Thermal Grizzly or Thermaltek that can drop a couple of degrees.

[venomtail]

NHD15 is an old cooler just like Dark Rock 4 Pro. Designed for CPU's several generations back. That being said they're still brute force big enough that they should be able to keep up, just aren't as efficient as their status was years ago.

 

Definitely the first thing we need to look into is changes that isn't really at the expense of a lot of money. Definitely look into a contact frame. We can hope that's the culprit.

[starsmine]

9 minutes ago, Schnoz said:

That's normal, thought not desirable. Intel's 12-14th gen chips run extremely hot, and high temps are unfortunately a side effect of inefficiency. I recommend purchasing a contact frame and purchasing a tube of Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut.

high temps have almost nothing to do with power inefficiency

 

  

3 minutes ago, venomtail said:

NHD15 is an old cooler just like Dark Rock 4 Pro. Designed for CPU's several generations back. That being said they're still brute force big enough that they should be able to keep up, just aren't as efficient as their status was years ago.

 

Definitely the first thing we need to look into is changes that isn't really at the expense of a lot of money. Definitely look into a contact frame. We can hope that's the culprit.

That... just isnt how cooling works. 

[TatamiMatt]

4 minutes ago, starsmine said:

high temps have almost nothing to do with power inefficiency

 

  

That... just isnt how cooling works. 

In what way do you mean?

 

For both

[venomtail]

7 minutes ago, starsmine said:

That... just isnt how cooling works. 

Just look at the benchmarks. Other, smaller coolers are quickly catching up to Dark Rock 4 and nhd15. Dark rock 4 even throttles for 7000 Ryzen and Noctua isn't far off. Optimal pipe placements, their material composition, pressures and so on change year over year over models. BeQuiet lost their crown and Noctua isn't far off.

[jaslion]

So whilst the 14600k is a hot running chip it shouldnt struggle with a nhd15 on it.

 

What case do you have?

 

May be installed poorly too

[starsmine]

23 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

In what way do you mean?

 

For both

Temperature delta is determined by the speed at which that energy dissipates, and how much energy it is being dissipated.
Yes how much energy you put into a system is PART of the equation, but it has nothing to do with the power efficiency of a processor. Energy dissipation you use watts per meter-kelvin. W/mK. Temp measured on CPUs are also a lie because you are not at the hotspot (this is ONE part of why temps have been going up, closer/more temp sensors on die to hotspots) This is why smaller dies, using the same wattage get hotter, the energy needed to dissipate is more localized. The temp of a die has zero knowledge of the power efficiency of a chip, its not even derivable. 
 

 

in terms of the air coolers, there still are very few air coolers that do better, so long as the heat pipes are over the hottest parts of the IHS, there is no way to further optimize a cooler for a given socket. You can just make a better air cooler at that point but you are not optimizing for a new gen, you are just making a better cooler. The mounting hardware that has changed will move the cooler to be mounted in the most ideal way for a new generation. If the air cooler was capable of dissipating 200W at a specified temp/point on the IHS back in 2009, it still will in 2025. (why offset mounting brackets became a thing with chiplets moving the hotspots on AM4)

 

20 minutes ago, Schnoz said:

I can see where you're coming, but in this case, temps have many things to do with power ineffiency. 14th gen just runs so friggin' hot, drawing significantly more heat than Ryzen 7000.

 

 

 

That's not really the issue here. The issue here is 14th gen being around as efficient as a World War II 12-cylinder aircraft engine.

the 14th gen intel CPU is literally the MOST power efficient consumer x86 cpu from Intel... ever. And are often cooler then AMD chips temp wise because of having a thinner IHS. AMD chips are more power efficent at the 100W TDP yes, I agree. (AMD to require zero changes in cooler compatibility made... choices)

Threadripper for example uses 400W but will run cooler temperature wise then an R9 or I9

[TatamiMatt]

34 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Temperature delta is determined by the speed at which that energy dissipates, and how much energy it is being dissipated.
Yes how much energy you put into a system is PART of the equation, but it has nothing to do with the power efficiency of a processor. Energy dissipation you use watts per meter-kelvin. W/mK. Temp measured on CPUs are also a lie because you are not at the hotspot (this is ONE part of why temps have been going up, closer/more temp sensors on die to hotspots) This is why smaller dies, using the same wattage get hotter, the energy needed to dissipate is more localized. The temp of a die has zero knowledge of the power efficiency of a chip, its not even derivable. 

I get what you mean, and very good points, but i will just add that power inefficiencies are the single cause of heat production within a chip, if we were able to utilise 100% of the energy put in with 100% efficiency, no heat would be produced.

 

34 minutes ago, starsmine said:

in terms of the air coolers, there still are very few air coolers that do better, so long as the heat pipes are over the hottest parts of the IHS, there is no way to further optimize a cooler for a given socket.

Infact, there has been a few advancements made, advancements on vapour composition, vaporisation temperature tweaking, heat pipe composition, width, bonding to the fins, fin setup to minimise inhibition of airflow etc

[Dream Driver 47]

1 hour ago, starsmine said:

Is it thermal throttling at load or is it stable at load? 80s is well inside spec, but if its actually throttling there are tools such as a replacement retention hold down bracket from Thermal Grizzly or Thermaltek that can drop a couple of degrees.

just did a quick test to see if it thermal throttles in game and yes it does, i will have a look at the replacement mounting as i know they have recently come to a local pc shop and if that helps then ill be really happy but i also might consider undervolting cause it heats up my room like crazy while im gaming and even while im just sitting on youtube, i dont know if i can undervolt on my asus rog strix b660-f gaming wifi but i will give it a try sometime soon

[leclod]

You haven't commented about your case and how you control its fans.

The best cooler in the world isn't worth a damn if it doesn't get cool air.

[starsmine]

1 hour ago, TatamiMatt said:

I get what you mean, and very good points, but i will just add that power inefficiencies are the single cause of heat production within a chip, if we were able to utilise 100% of the energy put in with 100% efficiency, no heat would be produced.

100% of the watts that go into a CPU exit as heat. That's just a law. There is no work being done in a physical sense. You have to measure efficiency it by how many operations per joule. 

 

  

56 minutes ago, Dream Driver 47 said:

just did a quick test to see if it thermal throttles in game and yes it does, i will have a look at the replacement mounting as i know they have recently come to a local pc shop and if that helps then ill be really happy but i also might consider undervolting cause it heats up my room like crazy while im gaming and even while im just sitting on youtube, i dont know if i can undervolt on my asus rog strix b660-f gaming wifi but i will give it a try sometime soon

Should be able to just fine with that mobo. And yea, double check things like your fans being in the right orreintation and that the front door isnt being choked out by something.

[Dream Driver 47]

Just now, leclod said:

You haven't commented about your case and how you control its fans.

The best cooler in the world isn't worth a damn if it doesn't get cool air.

i have a o11 which doesnt actually fit the nhd15 which i only found out once i installed it so i use it without the side panel on, i dont have any other fans then the ones on my cooler and i use fancontrol to control them and i run them around 75-100

[starsmine]

3 minutes ago, Dream Driver 47 said:

i have a o11 which doesnt actually fit the nhd15 which i only found out once i installed it so i use it without the side panel on, i dont have any other fans then the ones on my cooler and i use fancontrol to control them and i run them around 75-100

so effectivly open air. Ramping up that high with open air and thermal throttling is odd. perhaps its a mounting issue from the start. Do know if you fix the cooling problem, the CPU likely will use more watts and put out more heat into the room. so yea, strongly recommend the undervolting path that you already were considering.

[Dream Driver 47]

4 minutes ago, starsmine said:

so effectivly open air. Ramping up that high with open air and thermal throttling is odd. perhaps its a mounting issue from the start. Do know if you fix the cooling problem, the CPU likely will use more watts and put out more heat into the room. so yea, strongly recommend the undervolting path that you already were considering.

i did recheck my mounting and i didnt properly tighten the mounting hardware for the cooler so i tightened it and it did seem to be running a bit cooler but then it started getting just as hot, it sucks cause i was using a 13500 but then my dad had to sell it with another computer for his business so he upgraded me to a 14600k which barely changed my fps in the games that i play, i would try the undervolting right now but i dont know exactly how to do it properly and what values to change and by how much to change them 

[leclod]

42 minutes ago, starsmine said:

so effectivly open air. Ramping up that high with open air and thermal throttling is odd. perhaps its a mounting issue from the start. 

In my case, cool air gets pushed towards the cooler from the front and hot air out the back of the case .

In his case, air gets through the cooler and probably lingers around.

I doubt "kind of open bench" is as good as a good case (but I really don't know for sure, it's just a thought).

 

The thing with the heat and the Watts is interesting.

I doubt it's true 100% gets transformed into heat but difficult to leverage...

35 minutes ago, Dream Driver 47 said:

 it sucks cause i was using a 13500 but then my dad had to sell it with another computer for his business so he upgraded me to a 14600k which barely changed my fps in the games that i play,

You could just limit the power of the cpu in the bios

Edited January 15 by leclod

[Dream Driver 47]

2 minutes ago, leclod said:

You could just limit the power of the cpu

will it have a drastic effect on my performance if i limit it or would it be better to undervolt

[TatamiMatt]

6 minutes ago, Dream Driver 47 said:

i did recheck my mounting and i didnt properly tighten the mounting hardware for the cooler so i tightened it and it did seem to be running a bit cooler but then it started getting just as hot, it sucks cause i was using a 13500 but then my dad had to sell it with another computer for his business so he upgraded me to a 14600k which barely changed my fps in the games that i play, i would try the undervolting right now but i dont know exactly how to do it properly and what values to change and by how much to change them 

Could be that your thermal throttling back down to the level of the 13500

 

Or that your GPU is the limit to your FPS

 

How is your case airflow?

Your thermal paste application?

Your fan curves?

Do you have a a pass-through GPU cooler dumping hot air into the path of the CPU cooler?

Do you have an exhaust to dump hot air out of the case?

Whats your ambient air temperature?

1 minute ago, Dream Driver 47 said:

will it have a drastic effect on my performance if i limit it or would it be better to undervolt

You will probably actually see a performance uplift, your not underclocking it, just lowering the voltage it operates at, it will still run at the same speed

[starsmine]

10 minutes ago, Dream Driver 47 said:

will it have a drastic effect on my performance if i limit it or would it be better to undervolt

undervolting will lower power at a given frequency as well as increase performance via not hitting thermal limits allowing you to turbo higher so long as the silicon is stable at that point on the VF curve. 

Undervolting will be better then just putting a power limit (which it already is doing as it pulls power away from the cores when you hit the thermal limit) 

Also yea, you are not going to see large increase in performance between the 13500 and 14600k. the 14600k on average can do a better VF curve and has an unlocked turbo time, so sure you are averaging a couple hundred mhz more, however thats a sub 10% improvement in CPU performance. Both are so fast as to not be a bottleneck in any kind of game that you would find noticeable currently 

[Dream Driver 47]

4 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

Could be that your thermal throttling back down to the level of the 13500

 

Or that your GPU is the limit to your FPS

 

How is your case airflow?

Your thermal paste application?

Your fan curves?

Do you have a a pass-through GPU cooler dumping hot air into the path of the CPU cooler?

Do you have an exhaust to dump hot air out of the case?

Whats your ambient air temperature?

it is most likely that its my gpu thats limiting my fps as it is just a rx 6700 non xt
i would probably say the airflow isnt the best but still pretty good
i just made sure to put a bunch of thermal paste and made sure it had a good spread and it seems to be fine
i dont have any fan curves
i dont think my gpu is a pass through one but either way it doesnt get anywhere near as hot as my cpu
the only exhaust is the second cpu fan that i couldnt fit onto the cooler cause of the orentaion that i put it on
i dont have anything to accuratly read the ambient air temprature

[TatamiMatt]

20 minutes ago, Dream Driver 47 said:

it is most likely that its my gpu thats limiting my fps as it is just a rx 6700 non xt
i would probably say the airflow isnt the best but still pretty good
i just made sure to put a bunch of thermal paste and made sure it had a good spread and it seems to be fine
i dont have any fan curves
i dont think my gpu is a pass through one but either way it doesnt get anywhere near as hot as my cpu
the only exhaust is the second cpu fan that i couldnt fit onto the cooler cause of the orentaion that i put it on
i dont have anything to accuratly read the ambient air temprature

Sounds pretty decent, doo you have any images of the case? Might be able to give some pointers for cooling easier that way

[Dream Driver 47]

17 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

Sounds pretty decent, doo you have any images of the case? Might be able to give some pointers for cooling easier that way

ill have to take my pc out of the corner its in cause theres not much room for me to take a pic of it so i might do it in the morning when i can be bothered to do it

[TatamiMatt]

1 minute ago, Dream Driver 47 said:

ill have to take my pc out of the corner its in cause theres not much room for me to take a pic of it so i might do it in the morning when i can be bothered to do it

No worries, even if you have a glass panel and stick a phone close enough to it should be fine, also if its in the corner, is there enough space in the front, rear and sides for heat to escape and dissipate, you could be creating a little heat bubble so to speak and recycling hot air into the front of the case again

[Dream Driver 47]

13 hours ago, TatamiMatt said:

No worries, even if you have a glass panel and stick a phone close enough to it should be fine, also if its in the corner, is there enough space in the front, rear and sides for heat to escape and dissipate, you could be creating a little heat bubble so to speak and recycling hot air into the front of the case again

i don’t think it is making a heat bubble as it has the second cpu fan as a exhaust on the case which works pretty well, i’ll have a look at undervolting it cause i don’t like how much heat it produces and hopefully it works well enough, there weren’t many frequency drops when it was thermal throttling (from 5.3 to 5) so i don’t know if it’s actually getting too hot but i might try turning off the asus performance booster thing in the bios that unlocks the power cause i think that could be causing it

[unclewebb]

17 hours ago, Dream Driver 47 said:

i dont know if i can undervolt on my asus rog strix b660-f gaming

At default settings, Intel Undervolt Protection is usually enabled on the B660 boards. This will block undervolting. 

 

Have a look in the BIOS. In the AI Tweakers / Tweakers Paradise section, look for the Switch Microcode feature. If you select the early 0x104 microcode version, that will disable Undervolt Protection. 

 

Do not use the BIOS to undervolt. This part of the BIOS is broken. Try using ThrottleStop 9.6 instead. Open the FIVR window and set a negative offset voltage of -75 mV for both the core and the P cache. This should drop your load temperatures significantly. 

 

Here is an excellent guide that explains everything further. 

 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/guide-how-i-made-14700k-and-13900ks-usable-in-b660-motherboard.1809285/?post_id=29285373&nested_view=1#post-29285373

 

Post some ThrottleStop screenshots if you need help. Most people do not know about the limitations of the B660 boards. At least with your board there is an easy fix. If -75 mV is stable, try -100 mV, -125 mV etc. The K series CPUs use an excessive amount of voltage at default settings. That is why they run so hot.