The Windows 10 and 11 free trials (I mean upgrades) are no more

[leadeater]

13 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Are they actually subscriptions?

Yes a volume license agreement is a subscription. It's paid monthly, yearly or some other greater amount and all rights cease once then license agreement ends. The specific wording of that EU/EEA law is the software must be purchased outright and be 'perpetual'  (forever in relation to that law) to be covered by the law and legal to resell which MAK and VLK keys are not, but VLK keys don't get sold because they don't work for that purpose.

 

The problem is Microsoft does use the terminology perpetual also but does not mean the same thing as that law as they have an end date. Microsoft non-perpetual is monthly payments and perpetual is up front payment for the agreed license period. Since it has an end date it's not covered by that EU law.

 

The thing about MAK keys is they "never stop working", once Microsoft generate the key and you get it even if the license agreement ends the keys keep working, you're just "supposed" to stop using them heh. Similarly the Windows licenses are only upgrade rights, it doesn't even matter if they are truly perpetual for life they aren't full Windows license keys, they just functionally work that way.

 

Finally they are Multiple Activation Keys (MAK), one key can be allowed 1000 activations. It's one key. If you sell it 1000 times none of the previous 999 people are allowed to be still using it. So it shouldn't be that hard to then figure out not allowed for that EU law.

[leadeater]

12 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

lol, from what I've seen of your posts I'm sure you actually do have a good password, but man I worked with someone who used his AD privileges to reset his password each time as well (we only disallowed the previous password, and only forced changes every 60 days)...got so mad when a virus that exploited a zero day landed on a computer and guessed his admin credentials which was only 6 characters long because he was a slow typer.

lol ouch. Mine is greater than 15 characters so it cannot be cache on any system you login to so the hash cannot be taken and attempted to be cracked. So pro tip, AD passwords should be greater than 15 characters always. Just make up some stupid easy to remember sentence that is impossible to dictionary attack and do use it literally everywhere.

[leadeater]

13 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Another issue I have is that they seem to introduce new ways of pushing ads from time to time. So just because you turn off ads today doesn't mean you won't see any ads after an update, because they might just enable a new way of pushing ads in said update and it will be on by default.

Or "oops sorry that setting got reset, our bad"

[wanderingfool2]

24 minutes ago, leadeater said:

lol ouch. Mine is greater than 15 characters so it cannot be cache on any system you login to so the hash cannot be taken and attempted to be cracked. So pro tip, AD passwords should be greater than 15 characters always. Just make up some stupid easy to remember sentence that is impossible to dictionary attack and do use it literally everywhere.

Yea, I have a set of 3+ "password" sets that I've memorized that I use in different combinations when I need to reset my password.  As a result my passwords tend to be 18 - 26 characters long [I annoyed one of my coworkers who saw me while I was typing in my password and kept getting it wrong...they asked why I used such a long password...only reason I was typing it wrong though was apparently one of the keys on my keyboard bit the bullet ]

 

36 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes a volume license agreement is a subscription. It's paid monthly, yearly or some other greater amount and all rights cease once then license agreement ends. The specific wording of that EU/EEA law is the software must be purchased outright and be 'perpetual'  (forever in relation to that law) to be covered by the law and legal to resell which MAK and VLK keys are not, but VLK keys don't get sold because they don't work for that purpose.

hmm, maybe I'm misremembering but if I recall with the CDW reps I talked with/eventual MS audit, with the VLA  you are required to make a min purchase of volume to get an open license which keeps the contract open until a certain date, after which you cannot add more licenses to the contract...instead needing to make another min purchase...but if you chose to still purchase the perpetual license you are still granted use of those licenses (just that you are not restricted to maintain below or equal to the count that you purchased of perpetual license).  Like buying 150 licenses, but then expanding it to 10 you are capable of doing that during that period but after the period ends it is locked into the amount (and if you need more you need to make the min purchase).

 

I sort of remember having a discussion with a person who deals with MS audits, as we had to spin up a few 2005 servers in 2016 to run specific software that would only run on that; and we did have some old volume licenses in our account (and was given the okay).  So on some level the licensing terms must at some point have defined perpetual as allowing the ability to always use the software

 

So in that respect it is kind of like a subscription, but the subscription is on the ability to add onto the licenses...the licenses themselves were perpetual in the classical sense that even after you were granted rights to install (as long as you maintained under the licensed amounts).  Although things could have changed, I remember them pushing hard on the subscription instead of perpetual licenses...but both were still part of the VLA.

 

Either way, still wouldn't fly with the way the EU deals with things.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

hmm, maybe I'm misremembering but if I recall with the CDW reps I talked with/eventual MS audit, with the VLA  you are required to make a min purchase of volume to get an open license which keeps the contract open until a certain date, after which you cannot add more licenses to the contract...instead needing to make another min purchase...but if you chose to still purchase the perpetual license you are still granted use of those licenses (just that you are not restricted to maintain below or equal to the count that you purchased of perpetual license).  Like buying 150 licenses, but then expanding it to 10 you are capable of doing that during that period but after the period ends it is locked into the amount (and if you need more you need to make the min purchase).

Open License doesn't actually exist anymore, the replacement for it is Cloud Solution Provider (CSP) with Perpetual purchases added in when Open ended.

 

I think you are right about the Open License and perpetual though, if you want Software Assurance you have to maintain that on all purchased licenses though which entitles you to support and automatic upgrade to next version. But still  if you sell an MAK in full to G2A it can only be sold to one person not multiple times to potentially 1000 different people which 100% is what happens with those keys.

 

Quote

License requirements

 

Windows Pro

 

Windows Enterprise is available only as an Upgrade license through Microsoft Volume Licensing. To qualify for the Windows Enterprise Upgrade license, Trey Research needs a full license for a Qualifying Operating System (QOS) for each new PC. Because full base licenses are not available in Volume Licensing for Windows desktop operating systems, the most costeffective way to get the full license is by having the PC manufacturer (the original equipment manufacturer, or OEM) license and preinstall a QOS on each PC. In this case, Wendy has the OEM preinstall Windows Pro on the PCs, which is a QOS.

(In paragraph bold by me)

https://download.microsoft.com/download/E/8/E/E8EDAE36-CBC6-4123-BC5A-F651D174FD6C/Microsoft_Product_Terms_Explained.pdf

 

The above does contradict that though and it's always been my understanding of Windows desktop licenses under Volume Agreements. Probably just means full base license of Windows Enterprise though, but seems weird that the cheapest method is an OEM license and not a volume license for a QOS as well as an Enterprise Upgrade license.

 

It's been my understanding for why business model computers come with Windows licenses and OEMs don't typically offer a "no OS" option since you need the base Windows licenses (ignoring the rare Linux option you can choose).

 

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

I sort of remember having a discussion with a person who deals with MS audits, as we had to spin up a few 2005 servers in 2016 to run specific software that would only run on that; and we did have some old volume licenses in our account (and was given the okay).  So on some level the licensing terms must at some point have defined perpetual as allowing the ability to always use the software

You actually have downgrade rights typically with a Volume License Agreement, so if you purchase 100 Windows Server 2016 Standard you can run any older version as well. But I'm not sure that's always the case, it has been for me but that's for EA and CA which are the most expansive and inclusive type.

[ahuckphin]

I work to refurbish older computers and have been heavily dependent on the ability to activate Windows 10 with Windows 7 keys. 

 

My companies' current solution is to install Windows 7. Though, Microsoft stopped hosting Windows 7 ISO on their website, so it's now a more tedious task to obtain a legit ISO for Windows 7 (but thankfully not impossible). 

 

I was under the assumption that after the first time activating Windows 10 with a Windows 7 key, a new Windows 10 specific key will be tied to the motherboard to allow easy reactivation with reinstalls, but I might be mistaken. 

[LAwLz]

16 hours ago, starsmine said:

Also what ads in the OS are yall talking about?

Are we really going down this path? I still can't believe that some people seem to believe that Windows isn't riddled with ads. You'd have to live under a rock to not have heard all the complaints and examples of it happening to people.

As I explained earlier, just because you don't experience it doesn't mean no one else experiences it. It is highly based on things like regions and luck. Denying all the ads in Windows is like saying cancer doesn't exist just because you haven't experienced it. 

 

1) The ads for apps right in the start menu.

2) The notifications that pop up every now and again to advertise for example LinkedIn.

3) The lock screen pictures that are sometimes just full screen ads with links to where to buy for example some new game.

4) The section in the search box you mentioned where they include ads in the search bar.

5) The ad for OneDrive that appears in the shutdown menu for some users.

6) Or the time they started adding banners in Explorer for OneDrivbe subscriptions.

7) Speaking of File Explorer, remember when that started advertising Microsoft Editor?

8) Remember the time they showed an OS-level warning when you used Chrome, telling you to switch to Edge? That was an ad too.

9) That wasn't the first or last time they advertised Edge to Chrome users either. They have even injected banner ads into others' websites to advertise Edge.

10) Speaking of Edge, this appeared on my screen when I updated Windows last month. That's an ad for Edge and Bing right on my desktop.

11) And once again speaking of Edge, remember that time they showed a full-screen ad for Philo when you updated it? I will ignore Edge for now because I can make an entire list of ways they are advertising in that product alone.

12) There was some ad in Cortana before, where she told you to set a reminder for the Superbowl. I can't find any news article about it though right now. Too many articles about "cortana predicting the superbowl" show up.

13) In the share pane, they sometimes inject ads for other apps you don't have. 

14) If you used the Ink workspace you probably saw ads in that. Please note that this was a separate thing from the regular "suggested app" ads.

 

I could go on and on and on but I think you get the point.

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, starsmine said:

Thats a bug not an intended change

Do you have an official source to back this statement up with?

 

 

 

  

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

Or "oops sorry that setting got reset, our bad"

Or all the times when Microsoft has "accidentally" flagged Chrome as malware, or in other ways break Chrome.

At some point, people surely have to stop believing them when they say "it wasn't on purpose" when they time and time again "mess up" in ways that benefit themselves.

[Holmes108]

13 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Are we really going down this path? I still can't believe that some people seem to believe that Windows isn't riddled with ads. You'd have to live under a rock to not have heard all the complaints and examples of it happening to people.

As I explained earlier, just because you don't experience it doesn't mean no one else experiences it. It is highly based on things like regions and luck. Denying all the ads in Windows is like saying cancer doesn't exist just because you haven't experienced it. 

 

 I don't doubt anyone elses experience, but it is jarring when I hear it because I don't experience it. And it seems odd that the experiences wouldn't be consistent. I've NEVER seen one on the start menu. I suppose there's maybe been a very occasional pop up in the notification area for a microsoft office product or something. But I can't think of the last time I saw that, so it doesn't bother me.

 

It's only after a windows update, where I have to say "no thanks" once or twice about 365 or whatever that I have a slight eye roll. But again, at least it's Microsoft stuff, and not trying to sell me axe body wash. So yeah, not calling anyone a liar, but when people use terms like "riddled" with ads, it certainly vexes me.

 

Edit: And this is on full, genuine Windows 10/11. Not some modified/bootlegged version, or using any types of ad blockers (if they even exist for the OS, I don' t know).

 

Oh, and I'm not counting web search results in the start menu search either, although I do hate that "feature".

[wanderingfool2]

22 hours ago, leadeater said:

Open License doesn't actually exist anymore, the replacement for it is Cloud Solution Provider (CSP) with Perpetual purchases added in when Open ended.

haha, well it has been close to 6/7 years??? since I had to deal with actually knowing the inner workings of MS license.  Apart from PCI compliance, MS licenses was one of the things that had me pulling out my hair.  Always hated having to explain to the owner why on the invoice there were CAL's, and also software purchases (because he'd always forget that purchasing software from MS doesn't mean you can use it for all users).

 

22 hours ago, leadeater said:

But still  if you sell an MAK in full to G2A it can only be sold to one person not multiple times to potentially 1000 different people which 100% is what happens with those keys.

Yea, this I agree on.  It's the general point I was trying to make, but failing, that even if one were to concede that the EU law allows you to; based on how it's structured you do have to transfer the full rights to someone else which does make almost all greyware sites selling individual ones pretty much in violation.

 

22 hours ago, leadeater said:

You actually have downgrade rights typically with a Volume License Agreement, so if you purchase 100 Windows Server 2016 Standard you can run any older version as well. But I'm not sure that's always the case, it has been for me but that's for EA and CA which are the most expansive and inclusive type.

haha, yea...iirc the downgrade rights didn't apply to an 8 year old OS...it was like 2008 - 2016 it granted the rights to.  Or maybe it was just I found our old VLA account which had the really old licenses...can't quite remember.  Boy did I despise working with MS licenses (in a smaller business setting, where we need OS's but I need to justify the costs), I think I hate it more than reviewing/implementing all the PCI stuff.

 

 

[thewelshbrummie]

On 10/18/2023 at 7:32 PM, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

TL;DR PSA: If your device was activated with or upgraded from a Windows 7/8 key, do not re-install Windows, change any hardware, or perform firmware updates otherwise you will lose your activation status forever. 

 

Summary

Ever since Windows 10 was announced, Microsoft had been allowing existing Windows 7 and 8 users a free upgrade to Windows 10 and then subsequently Windows 11 if their hardware allowed. However, on September 20, Microsoft announced on their Device Partner Center that this free path has been officially closed, a whole 7 years late. 

 

*snip*

So much for the applause they received for the goodwill of supporting older devices for years to come with Windows 10. Yes, we can all technically run Windows 10/11 unlicensed, that's always been a thing, but that's not the point. I would be wary of any sort of Windows upgrade scheme, even the current one for Windows 10 to 11. This shows that there is no backend change to your license on Microsoft's end, even if they made you register your license prior to the upgrade like they did for Windows 10 upgrades back in 2015. The same thing could happen to devices running Windows 11 that originally shipped with 10. Likewise, if I purchased a Windows 10 key today, there's no guarantee I will be able to use it for Windows 11 for the rest of time.

 

Had a very different reply in mind to this but before posting I double checked as I thought this wasn't as problematic as was being made out... but it has potential to be a problem in some circumstances.

 

I remember my Win 8 install getting a very different product key when I upgraded to Win 10. I don't have access to my UK desktop but that was upgraded to 10 from 8.1. From memory the licence key it's activated with isn't the same licence key that came in the box with my copy of Windows 8 that was originally used to activate Win 8 on that computer.

 

One quick search pulled up this thread on the Microsoft support forums. The first reply kind of implies that if you want to clean install you'd need to:

1. buy a new copy
2. reinstall 8 and upgrade again.

The reply I'm referring to was posted just a day after the launch of Win 10 (general availability) in 2015. And so far as I can tell the reply was made by someone who worked for Microsoft at the time...

 

...which to me that implies that although the 2nd option ended in 2016, it's only now that Microsoft have decided to enforce it. That I assume would be due to both Win 7 and Win 8 are now completely unsupported with Win 7 ESU ending in January and Win 8 standard support ending at the same time with no ESU offered - so they're rather you don't start over with an unsupported OS version and then upgrade it. That post doesn't have many replies but clearly the same product key was being used on upgraded OS installs so I guess this was always intended.

 

While an actual statement from Microsoft as to why they're doing this would be helpful (which they have done in the past - regarding both DVD playback as standard in 10 being removed due to codec cost, likewise the removal of Media Center because of limited use), I'm assuming that they're looking at computer replacement cycles and have made an assumption that this will be a very minor issue. That and pre-10 market share is getting towards a rounding error - around 4.7% globally according to Statcounter, less than 1.6% in the UK and somewhere in between for both Germany and North America.

 

If Microsoft working on PCs being replaced every 3-5 years, or even 7, you'd be at a point where the majority of people will have bought a computer that shipped with Windows 10 by default as any device that shipped with Windows 8 or older would be at least 8 years old at this point. I've recently scrapped off my OG HP Spectre x360 that I bought 8 years ago this month & that shipped with OG Windows 10 (battery failed, and being Skylake based it doesn't officially support Win 11).

 

To be clear, I'm not saying I like this move - for starters my dad's 2012 era Dell laptop is now very much on notice if he needs to reinstall from the recovery partition and upgrade to 10 as I did when swapping out the HDD for an SSD. But I can certainly see the logic in this move for Microsoft to push people onto a supported OS. The cynic in me is suspicious since Dad is more than happy with his laptop and it's really only the lack of TPM that's the issue. That said he'll get 13 years out of it which doesn't seem unreasonable tbh. Certainly better than the 7 I'll get from my Surface Go before that loses support.

 

--

 

All of that said - @BlueChinchillaEatingDorito if your signature is correct am I to take it that your Win 8 licence is the one currently in use on the first computer listed? That's suggesting you're using a licence key that was up to 9 years old at the time you built that system (12th Gen Intel launching 2 years ago, Win 8 in 2012). In your case, the hardware you currently have certainly allows going from 10>11 but it clearly wasn't what you were using when you first used the licence. That and Windows 8 on Alder Lake would undoubtedly be unsupported (since everything 7th Gen and newer dropped support for pre-Win 10). I'm assuming you reinstalled Windows with the hardware upgrade and I'm also assuming that you went straight to 10, if not 11 when you did that hardware upgrade. Instinct is telling me that the BIOS update triggered the activation to fail (as it maybe assumed the motherboard was different) and it's pure dumb luck with the timing. But I'm wondering if using a licence for a version of Windows that's not officially supported on the hardware you have triggered the activation fail in the first place, especially if it never went through the full upgrade path of 8>10>11.

 

9 hours ago, Holmes108 said:

 

 I don't doubt anyone elses experience, but it is jarring when I hear it because I don't experience it. And it seems odd that the experiences wouldn't be consistent. I've NEVER seen one on the start menu. I suppose there's maybe been a very occasional pop up in the notification area for a microsoft office product or something. But I can't think of the last time I saw that, so it doesn't bother me.

 

It's only after a windows update, where I have to say "no thanks" once or twice about 365 or whatever that I have a slight eye roll. But again, at least it's Microsoft stuff, and not trying to sell me axe body wash. So yeah, not calling anyone a liar, but when people use terms like "riddled" with ads, it certainly vexes me.

 

Edit: And this is on full, genuine Windows 10/11. Not some modified/bootlegged version, or using any types of ad blockers (if they even exist for the OS, I don' t know).

 

Oh, and I'm not counting web search results in the start menu search either, although I do hate that "feature".

 

Personally speaking the only ad I've seen is the Bing search bar (number 10 on the list that @LAwLz posted). Yet I get frustrated when my wife's iPhone throws up an ad in the settings page of all places (usually to enable Apply Pay - which is of zero interest and yet is difficult to remove). Google isn't any better, yet I find is strange that people seem to complain endlessly about Microsoft doing it when it's not any better and arguably worse elsewhere.

 

Those ads on the start menu only appeared on a first install and are easily removed, and haven't returned. Ever.

 

I'd be interested to see if the people complaining have turned off everything in Windows that has the word "suggestions" in it or actually have bothered to make the necessary changes to disable that behaviour. I've seen ads on other computers where notifications are enabled and the 3 rows of options below app settings are shows ("Get tips and suggestions when I use Windows" being the obvious one but all 3 could easily enable ads). Those should be turned off and it somewhat staggers me that people who know enough to build a PC don't fully go through the settings in Windows to turn that stuff off. Not condoning it as it clearly does happen but it's so easily avoided on Windows when it isn't elsewhere (I get a popup box to install Chrome almost everytime I go to the Google homepage - that's no better than what is being complained about here).

 

I genuinely wonder if people are just trying to find something a reason to complain about at times and like Microsoft as a target. They're far from perfect, but the scorn does at times seem unwarranted when all of the above complaints aren't difficult to avoided. I get that people would rather this be disabled by default but unless someone in Government bothers to try to stop this (and dark patterns for that matter) then I fail to see why Microsoft should get it so bad when Apple and especially Google aren't any better.

[leadeater]

27 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

haha, yea...iirc the downgrade rights didn't apply to an 8 year old OS...it was like 2008 - 2016 it granted the rights to.

Yea, the modern VLK key will activate any prior version of Windows back to 2008, 2003 R2 and older used different type I think so couldn't share a single activation key on a volume license server. So it just works, as long as you are using volume license server of course. Just load in your nice shiny new Windows Server 2022 VLK and it'll activate Windows Server 2008 haha.

 

Actually needing an MAK key set would make things so much harder, I've only used MAK keys for devices we were sending out for off network usage and wouldn't be able to contact the license server again.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

10 hours ago, thewelshbrummie said:

All of that said - @BlueChinchillaEatingDorito if your signature is correct am I to take it that your Win 8 licence is the one currently in use on the first computer listed? That's suggesting you're using a licence key that was up to 9 years old at the time you built that system (12th Gen Intel launching 2 years ago, Win 8 in 2012). In your case, the hardware you currently have certainly allows going from 10>11 but it clearly wasn't what you were using when you first used the licence. That and Windows 8 on Alder Lake would undoubtedly be unsupported (since everything 7th Gen and newer dropped support for pre-Win 10). I'm assuming you reinstalled Windows with the hardware upgrade and I'm also assuming that you went straight to 10, if not 11 when you did that hardware upgrade. Instinct is telling me that the BIOS update triggered the activation to fail (as it maybe assumed the motherboard was different) and it's pure dumb luck with the timing.

Microsoft opened themselves to this use case the moment they allowed and (at times aggressively) encouraged people to tie licenses to Microsoft accounts to allow easy transfer of said licenses between devices. This use case isn't much of a stretch. 

 

As explained in detail in later replies (I'll update the original post), the Alder Lake system was fully activated with a Digital License associated with my Microsoft account since it was built back in September of 2022. No key was entered, just signed into my Microsoft account, said I upgraded my hardware, selected the old Windows 10 device (that had the Windows 8 key) and Windows was activated in seconds. 

 

Like you said, it's just timing because the BIOS update was done unbeknownst to me right after Microsoft initiated this new policy. However, it doesn't mean it's not a problem, it's just something ticking in the background waiting to happen. If it wasn't a BIOS update trigging it now, me upgrading to say a new boot drive and re-installing Windows or installing a new GPU a few years down the road would yield the same issue if Microsoft doesn't fix the issue. And if people don't speak up about it, of course they won't. The only alternative (if you hate or cannot have unlicensed software on a work machine for instance) is to buy a new license for what is a legitimate use case they never specified you couldn't do. 

[LloydLynx]

Has anyone tried activating by phone? IIRC it doesn't ask anything at all about your Windows installation. It's just a simple license string exchange.

[TheLaw4K]

@OP

Thanks for the nice write up. 
 

I have a similar back story: Bought retail a Win 7 Pro license (with DVD) ~14 years ago. When MS offered cheap upgrades to Win 8 for Win7 users I bought it for 30€ or so. I got a new key and used that for Win 8, 8.1, 10, and now 11 across 3 different platform upgrades, always removing the old PCs after an upgrade from the overview in my MS account.

 

Two weeks ago I performed a BIOS update and now Win11 reports that my hardware has changed and it does not accept my original Win8 key for re-activation.

 

I originally wanted to call MS support on Monday but I guess I can save myself the trouble, or have there been any success stories?

[darknessblade]

I guess with how key generation works, they want to re-use older keys. but are unable to do so. as they are still used for windows ME, XP, 7, 8.1, 10, etc.

 

thus they use this scheme hoping people would trash their old system and license keys. wait a few years before they reuse said keys.

 

 

 

[Needfuldoer]

They did nothing to stop this practice for seven years. Windows 10 only has a year of official support left, why not use that as an excuse? "Whoops, Windows 10 is unsupported now and your hardware is too old to officially support Windows 11, too bad so sad." Is Microsoft burning that much money on AI?

 

I re-used my old Windows 7 Ultimate key when I built my gaming HTPC earlier this year, hopefully it doesn't get the watermark.

 

But now I'm not going to feel bad running Windows unactivated on my OEM machines that have 7, 8, and 8.1 COAs. There's a huge difference between "no more free 'upgrades" and "all previously officially kosher upgrades are retroactively revoked".

[Mark Kaine]

6 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

They did nothing to stop this practice for seven years. Windows 10 only has a year of official support left, why not use that as an excuse? "Whoops, Windows 10 is unsupported now and your hardware is too old to officially support Windows 11, too bad so sad." Is Microsoft burning that much money on AI?

Thats the thing... why now... what's the justification...?

 

Im pretty much certain if someone would sue them now they would win ... (as long they can prove a official license,  there's no real justification it would just stop working) 

[jagdtigger]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Thats the thing... why now... what's the justification...?

So people cant go from win7/8/8.1 to 10 then 11.......

[SansVarnic]

This was supposed to end some time ago, MS kept extending the date further out and now that they are no longer doing that people want to be upset?  Cry me a river.

[Needfuldoer]

35 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

This was supposed to end some time ago, MS kept extending the date further out and now that they are no longer doing that people want to be upset?  Cry me a river.

Like I said, there's a big difference between "no more new activations with old keys" and "previous activations done with old keys are now revoked even though they were fine for the better part of a decade".

 

If this is a common story, there's a problem here:

On 10/28/2023 at 5:13 AM, TheLaw4K said:

Two weeks ago I performed a BIOS update and now Win11 reports that my hardware has changed and it does not accept my original Win8 key for re-activation.

 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 hour ago, SansVarnic said:

This was supposed to end some time ago, MS kept extending the date further out and now that they are no longer doing that people want to be upset?  Cry me a river.

I'm fine for them to close the loophole for Windows 7 or 8 users today trying to move onto Windows 10. But to then prevent existing users who were already using 10 or 11 with their license (digital or not) to re-activate after reinstallation or a hardware upgrade would be over the line as you can hardly say that use case was a loophole. It was something Microsoft promoted and recommended as a reason to associate licenses with Microsoft accounts. 

 

That was the main point of the story. The closing of the loophole was what triggered those who had already done everything that Microsoft required from them at the beginning to be caught in the crossfire.  

[Mark Kaine]

On 10/20/2023 at 8:42 AM, Dracarris said:

So by this definition there isn't really a way to obtain a legit W10/11 Pro license without paying a 3-digit amount, and still get an OS with baked-in ads, am I seeing this right? At least for "us" folks who still build computers by themselves and not buy machines with bundled licenses (or simply want a license that can be activated on any machine).

its a grey market situation, but lots of these "$5" licenses are indeed legit... you just never can be sure lol.

 

 

[SansVarnic]

36 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

That was the main point of the story. The closing of the loophole was what triggered those who had already done everything that Microsoft required from them at the beginning to be caught in the crossfire.

I can understand this and MS likely should not have allowed tech advisors to recommend the loophole due to laziness.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

I can understand this and MS likely should not have allowed tech advisors to recommend the loophole due to laziness.

Chances are this would have happened even if the "loophole" (which wasn't a loophole, just a service being offered longer than expected) didn't exist. 

 

I really doubt Microsoft decided to revoke keys because they felt too many had used the free upgrade.

My guess is that their system was just poorly implemented and not fully thought out, and it's their customers that are now being screwed because of it.

 

Because I think that's the big story here. It's not a surprise that Microsoft finally decided to stop allowing free upgrades to Windows 10 using old keys. The big surprise is that these upgraded keys become invalid if you for example reinstall or in some cases repair your PC. You'd assume that if someone says "we'll upgrade you for free from Windows 7 to WIndows 10", then that means your key should work like a Windows 10 key forever. Not that it will revert back to Windows 7 if you ever want to reinstall.

[Needfuldoer]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

My guess is that their system was just poorly implemented and not fully thought out, and it's their customers that are now being screwed because of it.

That doesn't sound like Microsoft at all!

 

/s