Bookshelf or gaming speakers

[Alen100]

Hi,

 

I'm in the market for the new speakers. I have a decent size desk so space is not a problem. I want clear and quality sound more then power. I don't want to pay too much, about 100-150$. Should i go for something like Edifier R1700BT or Steelseries Arena 3? Wich one will give me better sound?

 

Thanks

[shoutingsteve]

I would aim a little higher if I were you.  Although I am now an old man...  I bought a set of really great speakers about 20 years ago and they still serve me well.  Speaker technology doesn't move very fast, plenty of speakers built in the 70's and 80's are still in peoples homes and sound great.

I bought Klipsch Speakers.  These aren't the ones I own, but they are a great model for a guy (or girl?  I don't know you) on a budget.

https://www.klipsch.com/products/r-40m-bookshelf-speakers

 

[HanZie82]

55 minutes ago, Alen100 said:

Hi,

 

I'm in the market for the new speakers. I have a decent size desk so space is not a problem. I want clear and quality sound more then power. I don't want to pay too much, about 100-150$. Should i go for something like Edifier R1700BT or Steelseries Arena 3? Wich one will give me better sound?

 

Thanks

Good powered speakers are certainly an option (altho i have little knowledge of those).
But you could also get a good amp and good speakers. Might be similar in price just needs more room.
Chances are you can get higher quality by getting 2nd hand.

 

Also if you can stay FAR AWAY from gaming (anyhting really) speakers, they just put 30% on top of the price and some flashy colors. It does nothing for quality.

Anything gaming isnt better, just more expensive!!!

 

33 minutes ago, shoutingsteve said:

I would aim a little higher if I were you.  Although I am now an old man...  I bought a set of really great speakers about 20 years ago and they still serve me well.  Speaker technology doesn't move very fast, plenty of speakers built in the 70's and 80's are still in peoples homes and sound great.

I bought Klipsch Speakers.  These aren't the ones I own, but they are a great model for a guy (or girl?  I don't know you) on a budget.

https://www.klipsch.com/products/r-40m-bookshelf-speakers

 

Yes good idea, but those would need an amp as well.
Seeing his bookshelf speakers have built in amps, i think (s)he needs that also.

[Alex Atkin UK]

35 minutes ago, shoutingsteve said:

I would aim a little higher if I were you.  Although I am now an old man...  I bought a set of really great speakers about 20 years ago and they still serve me well.  Speaker technology doesn't move very fast, plenty of speakers built in the 70's and 80's are still in peoples homes and sound great.

The problem with old speakers is not knowing what the quality was at the time or if the previous owner blew the tweeters.  I used rescued old speakers for years and they were definitely better than cheap bookshelf, but then if you throw $200 or so at the budget range of the higher end then that makes a huge difference.

I also discovered how much of a huge difference the amplifier makes, though you don't have to spend a lot just look at some of the stuff based on hobbyist designs like Fosi Audio which sounds insanely good for the price.

[Alen100]

I don't have any options for Klipsch in my region and that is the problem. Edifier i can get. So, the bookshelfs are better option? I don't care about rgb, as i have all black pc build.

[shoutingsteve]

40 minutes ago, Alen100 said:

I don't have any options for Klipsch in my region and that is the problem. Edifier i can get. So, the bookshelfs are better option? I don't care about rgb, as i have all black pc build.

Yes, the bookshelf speakers will be better.  like @HanZie82 said, when they classify speakers, they don't really add anything special to them (until you get to the level of "monitors" but you aren't looking for those)

[HAL90000]

Presonus Eris 3.5
You'll thank me later.

[Blue4130]

23 hours ago, HAL90000 said:

Presonus Eris 3.5
You'll thank me later.

Yep, I'll second that. I have the 4.5 and I love them.

[Alen100]

Ordered Edifier r1700bt black version 

 

[HAL90000]

14 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

Yep, I'll second that. I have the 4.5 and I love them.

I had the 4.5 and gave them away to my nephew's friend. I regret it every day.

[HanZie82]

2 hours ago, HAL90000 said:

I had the 4.5 and gave them away to my nephew's friend. I regret it every day.

Aww that was very nice of you tho.
But im higly surprised about the pricing, if they are really that good. The price is amazing.

 

3 hours ago, Alen100 said:

Ordered Edifier r1700bt black version

Thanks for reporting back. Let us know how awesome they are.

[HAL90000]

14 hours ago, HanZie82 said:

Aww that was very nice of you tho.
But im higly surprised about the pricing, if they are really that good. The price is amazing.

 

Thanks for reporting back. Let us know how awesome they are.

I hate speakers (disclaimer) and I'm a high end headphone person but honestly if you really want ultimate bang/buck ratio what you want to do is get your hands on JBL LSR 305's or 305 MK 2's. A pair can be had for as little as $200 USD. Deep horn mounted tweeter! For $200/pair! They sound absolutely freaking mental. Don't plug them into your computer's onboard audio or a soundcard though because they like to pick up a lot of noise. You want to feed them off a DAC and you want to feed that DAC off an optical cable if you can or at least an optical USB cable. Expensive? No! Audioquest Beetle is $50 on Amazon and has optical SPDIF in and USB in, 3.5mm minijack out. That's really the ultimate $250 setup for desktop. The speakers are massive but you can't beat them at the price. 
The only setup that competes for twice the price is a pair of Yorkville 5" monitors but those are only available at Long & McQuade and the 305's are 99% of the way there. Eris 3.5/4.5 are mainstream and don't touch the 3.5's and certainly nothing from Edifier does that's for sure. 

As a headphone person, I really have to try to push you into headphones and remind you that a $120 Shure SRH840A (currently on my head) paired with a Shanling UP4 ($100) (both on amazon) sounds better than a $1200 pair of KEF LSX speakers and you can take it with you on the bus. Also the fun thing about headphones is that the prices make no sense and the aforementioned Shure setup does a thing that rhymes with grape to Focal Bathys, which cost $1000, which I also own... but you loose the leather magnesium aluminum "look at me I have $1000 headphones" vibe. 

[cmndr]

On 9/17/2023 at 7:14 AM, Alex Atkin UK said:

I also discovered how much of a huge difference the amplifier makes, though you don't have to spend a lot just look at some of the stuff based on hobbyist designs like Fosi Audio which sounds insanely good for the price.

I'll touch on this a bit. 

Amps that border on overkill are reasonably priced these days. A lot of the stuff from FOSI and Aiyima are SOLID, especially when on sale. 
I've also historically been the type to say "amp doesn't matter" but I tried a cheap Mii dac/amp and it was awful. Even at low volumes. It's very possible the unit was defective as when I tried it again a year later, it just didn't work. 
I suspect it's likely the case that these days, inexpensive solid state amps (Aiyima A07, Fosi BT30D, etc.) work PRETTY WELL. The REALLY cheap ones probably have near 0 QA though so anyone going that route needs to test the unit while it's still within the return window. 

 

10 hours ago, HAL90000 said:

if you really want ultimate bang/buck ratio what you want to do is get your hands on JBL LSR 305's or 305 MK 2's. A pair can be had for as little as $200 USD. Deep horn mounted tweeter! For $200/pair! They sound absolutely freaking mental. Don't plug them into your computer's onboard audio or a soundcard though because they like to pick up a lot of noise. You want to feed them off a DAC and you want to feed that DAC off an optical cable if you can or at least an optical USB cable. Expensive? No! Audioquest Beetle is $50 on Amazon and has optical SPDIF in and USB in, 3.5mm minijack out. 

I used to laugh and dismiss DACs until I got a pair of used (mehh condition) 305 MKII speakers. My old DAC, which never really did anything for me before suddenly became GREAT for cutting down line noise. 

DACs matter for powered speakers it seems and barely matter for passive speakers. Mostly from a dealing with line noise perspective. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

7 hours ago, cmndr said:

I'll touch on this a bit. 

Amps that border on overkill are reasonably priced these days. A lot of the stuff from FOSI and Aiyima are SOLID, especially when on sale. 
I've also historically been the type to say "amp doesn't matter" but I tried a cheap Mii dac/amp and it was awful. Even at low volumes. It's very possible the unit was defective as when I tried it again a year later, it just didn't work. 
I suspect it's likely the case that these days, inexpensive solid state amps (Aiyima A07, Fosi BT30D, etc.) work PRETTY WELL. The REALLY cheap ones probably have near 0 QA though so anyone going that route needs to test the unit while it's still within the return window. 

 

I used to laugh and dismiss DACs until I got a pair of used (mehh condition) 305 MKII speakers. My old DAC, which never really did anything for me before suddenly became GREAT for cutting down line noise. 

DACs matter for powered speakers it seems and barely matter for passive speakers. Mostly from a dealing with line noise perspective. 

I have the JDS LABS ATOM headphone amp coming out of a cheap HiFiME SA9023 DAC based USB Audio dongle.  While I don't strictly need the ATOM in the mix when not using headphones, it seems to sound better to me which is good as it means no switching cables.  The SA9023 alone seems to have better dynamic range than the on-board audio, which doesn't exactly sound bad to begin with.

Worth noting, I've only using it on Linux where I kinda felt audio sounded better than Windows last I checked.  Probably helps you can adjust the settings on the software mixer to prefer quality or CPU usage.

[HAL90000]

23 hours ago, cmndr said:

I'll touch on this a bit. 

Amps that border on overkill are reasonably priced these days. A lot of the stuff from FOSI and Aiyima are SOLID, especially when on sale. 
I've also historically been the type to say "amp doesn't matter" but I tried a cheap Mii dac/amp and it was awful. Even at low volumes. It's very possible the unit was defective as when I tried it again a year later, it just didn't work. 
I suspect it's likely the case that these days, inexpensive solid state amps (Aiyima A07, Fosi BT30D, etc.) work PRETTY WELL. The REALLY cheap ones probably have near 0 QA though so anyone going that route needs to test the unit while it's still within the return window. 

 

I used to laugh and dismiss DACs until I got a pair of used (mehh condition) 305 MKII speakers. My old DAC, which never really did anything for me before suddenly became GREAT for cutting down line noise. 

DACs matter for powered speakers it seems and barely matter for passive speakers. Mostly from a dealing with line noise perspective. 

I mean any time you're listening to digital audio, which is always in 2023, there's a DAC in the signal chain somewhere. There has to be, so idk what you're talking about. Whether that DAC is on your motherboard, in a USB speaker, in a soundbar, wireless headphones, an actual desktop DAC, etc.

 

[HAL90000]

16 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I have the JDS LABS ATOM headphone amp coming out of a cheap HiFiME SA9023 DAC based USB Audio dongle.  While I don't strictly need the ATOM in the mix when not using headphones, it seems to sound better to me which is good as it means no switching cables.  The SA9023 alone seems to have better dynamic range than the on-board audio, which doesn't exactly sound bad to begin with.

Worth noting, I've only using it on Linux where I kinda felt audio sounded better than Windows last I checked.  Probably helps you can adjust the settings on the software mixer to prefer quality or CPU usage.

I just want to say it's cool that you're using a mini pc as a router. Those cheap little suckers are good for so much stuff. Even as a basic beater PC for our parents or grandparents.

[cmndr]

1 minute ago, HAL90000 said:

I mean any time you're listening to digital audio, which is always in 2023, there's a DAC in the signal chain somewhere. There has to be, so idk what you're talking about. Whether that DAC is on your motherboard, in a USB speaker, in a soundbar, wireless headphones, an actual desktop DAC, etc.

I'll clarify. I meant an external DAC. 

For passive speakers, it generally seems like an external DAC barely does much of anything. My HD800 going off of the budget DAC in my thunderbolt docks is about as good as via my old external DAC. 

[HAL90000]

3 minutes ago, cmndr said:

I'll clarify. I meant an external DAC. 

For passive speakers, it generally seems like an external DAC barely does much of anything. My HD800 going off of the budget DAC in my thunderbolt docks is about as good as via my old external DAC. 

You non audiophiles make my brain hurt...
"I'm NOT running my (insert $1500 headphone) off a $1000 amp" is something that makes my brain hurt a lot. 
Whether the speaker is passive or active makes absolutely no difference what matters is whether there is a DSP/DAC in the speakers or not. A good clean dynamic signal for a DAC will do as much for regular powered speakers as for passive speakers given that they are electrically identical. Whether the amp is external or internal to the speakers makes no difference to sound quality.

[HAL90000]

4 minutes ago, cmndr said:

I'll clarify. I meant an external DAC. 

For passive speakers, it generally seems like an external DAC barely does much of anything. My HD800 going off of the budget DAC in my thunderbolt docks is about as good as via my old external DAC. 

What I mean to say is the signal chain is electrically identical. PC>DAC>AMP>SPEAKER whether you put the amp in the speaker or not is massively inconsequential.

[cmndr]

9 minutes ago, HAL90000 said:

What I mean to say is the signal chain is electrically identical. PC>DAC>AMP>SPEAKER whether you put the amp in the speaker or not is massively inconsequential.

I'm aware. 

In most audiophile groups, when people say DAC, they mean replacing the DAC built into your PC with another one. 

[cmndr]

1 hour ago, HAL90000 said:

You non audiophiles make my brain hurt...
"I'm NOT running my (insert $1500 headphone) off a $1000 amp" is something that makes my brain hurt a lot. 
Whether the speaker is passive or active makes absolutely no difference what matters is whether there is a DSP/DAC in the speakers or not. A good clean dynamic signal for a DAC will do as much for regular powered speakers as for passive speakers given that they are electrically identical. Whether the amp is external or internal to the speakers makes no difference to sound quality.

I think you read my post wrong. 

There's value in an external DAC if you have notable line noise. Active speakers generally need line filters / ground loop isolators to cut out the hiss, especially when connected to a PC source. An external DAC partially fixes this issue. I want to say my ~50dB 60Hz buzz went down to around 30dB. Which is "good enough" for a secondary system. 

If ground loops aren't an issue then there's not a huge difference between active vs passive speakers. 

It sounds like you've never struggled against a ground loop. They're awful. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)


---

As far as "$1500 headphones need a $1000 amp" - good advice in 1970, terrible advice in 2020. You got advice that's been outdated for 30 years. Cheap amps today are better in many ways than the $1000 amps of the 1970s. Engineers got good at making "pretty good, pretty cheap." Headphones draw around 1W. It's not THAT hard to make a decent 10W amplifier that's borderline overkill.

 

[Alen100]

Just got my 1700bt. Quality! That's all i can say. For the money i don't think you can beat them. I got the black ones, materials are great and the sound is solid. You can pay 500 or 1000$ for speakers and you will get more ofc, but for 150$ im super happy with mine. BINGO.