Framework laptops

[Firepower]

I heard that Linus invested like around $225000 into the Framework company. However I do have concerns as to whether it can actually be profitable. It is appealing to a very niche market, as not a lot of people are comfortable even opening up their computer, much less upgrading it themselves. I do think it is a cool concept and I do wish for it to succeed, but we have to stop for a minute to consider the very real possibility that this flops. I do hope that does not happen, I wish to be proven wrong on this occasion. 

[Mihle]

Eh, I don't think Linus will miss that money that much, he has enough without it.

[Firepower]

Yeah it's probably just a neat gimmick, being able to swap out parts and still have them function, but I agree it doesn't have much practical value. It might be useful in some specialized use cases, like you could have both a gaming laptop and one with long battery life by swapping out the dedicated GPU for a battery module, but most use cases aren't gonna need the laptop's modular design. 

[Needfuldoer]

5 hours ago, Firepower said:

I do think it is a cool concept and I do wish for it to succeed, but we have to stop for a minute to consider the very real possibility that this flops.

You think he didn't consider that when he personally invested his own money into the company?

[Lurick]

Flop? You mean like the ~90K+ units they sold in under two days for the 16" version?

*assuming 10K units per batch and they're on batch 9 right now iirc

 

 

The 16" version also has the option for 6 ports (minus 1 for USB-C for charging) unlike the smaller versions.

[Firepower]

26 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

You think he didn't consider that when he personally invested his own money into the company?

I don't know what he did or didn't take into consideration, it is just a general maxim of investing that you do research before putting your money in. And no, the presentation by the company representative doesn't count. 

[Needfuldoer]

4 minutes ago, Firepower said:

I don't know what he did or didn't take into consideration, it is just a general maxim of investing that you do research before putting your money in. And no, the presentation by the company representative doesn't count. 

He's talked about this at length on WAN Show, and there are at least four standalone LTT videos about it.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

Linus Media Group, Inc is not invested in Framework. Linus Sebastian is. Even if Framework turns out to be the world's most elaborate rug pull, the tech tips will continue. 

 

Why should any of us be concerned about it?

[Firepower]

13 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Flop? You mean like the ~90K+ units they sold in under two days for the 16" version?

*assuming 10K units per batch and they're on batch 9 right now iirc

 

 

The 16" version also has the option for 6 ports (minus 1 for USB-C for charging) unlike the smaller versions.

Predicting the future growth of a company is very tricky, as any fundamental analyst will tell you. Even if they make money, the question is will the investors make a profit? If the company is overpriced, even if the company does incredibly well, the investors won't see their money increase. Now granted I don't know the exact structure of the agreement between them, but if it's a loan then I suppose the company will pay it back with the interest. 

[Firepower]

1 minute ago, Needfuldoer said:

He's talked about this at length on WAN Show, and there are at least four standalone LTT videos about it.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

Linus Media Group, Inc is not invested in Framework. Linus Sebastian is. Even if Framework turns out to be the world's most elaborate rug pull, the tech tips will continue. 

 

Why should any of us be concerned about it?

I don't know the answer to that question because I never said you should be concerned about it. I just put this out here for discussion because I assume that is what this forum is for. 

[dizmo]

There are lots of things that are niche markets that make tons of profit. Something doesn't have to be mass market to be profitable. Is he going to become a billionaire from it? No. That doesn't mean he isn't going to do well. So, even though yes, it's a niche market, the market still exists and they'll serve it well.

 

57 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

You think he didn't consider that when he personally invested his own money into the company?

He did clearly go into this more with heart than head though.

18 minutes ago, Firepower said:

Predicting the future growth of a company is very tricky, as any fundamental analyst will tell you. Even if they make money, the question is will the investors make a profit? If the company is overpriced, even if the company does incredibly well, the investors won't see their money increase. Now granted I don't know the exact structure of the agreement between them, but if it's a loan then I suppose the company will pay it back with the interest. 

If you understood Linus, you'd understand he doesn't really care if it makes money or not; if the company gains traction and takes off, I think that'd be more than enough for him. It's also great PR for LTT. Not everything in life is about making money.

[Firepower]

3 minutes ago, dizmo said:

 

If you understood Linus, you'd understand he doesn't really care if it makes money or not; if the company gains traction and takes off, I think that'd be more than enough for him. It's also great PR for LTT. Not everything in life is about making money.

Okay good for him, I am just giving my opinion on this, and this could be valuable information to any others thinking about investing. 

[dizmo]

4 minutes ago, Firepower said:

Okay good for him, I am just giving my opinion on this, and this could be valuable information to any others thinking about investing. 

No offense, but someone investing hundreds of thousands of dollars is very unlikely to take a single forum post into consideration. They look at far more important factors than a couple of random people's opinions. 

[danalog]

My concern with the Framework, as someone who works on laptops, is that it might quickly fade into obsolescence and be harder to repair than your run of the mill laptop. The proprietary slot, although open-source, is much more limiting for GPU options than MXM. MXM has its issues, yes, but you can generally put GPUs much newer than the ones originally shipping with the laptop in an MXM slot. But if the Framework laptop's slot is changed on the next model and there is no reason to make cards for this slot anymore, you'll be stuck with only 1 or maybe a few more GPUs that can even work in the system. This happened with the XPS M1710 - very expensive high-end laptop that used a proprietary GPU slot, and thus is very hard to maintain today because it'll only take 4 models of GeForce card Dell manufactured for it. It's possible to buy new-old-stock cards for the M1710 since not every one found its way into a laptop, but someday those cards will dry up and you might have no option for repair if the GPU dies. It'll be less of an issue with Framework because it has an iGPU but still, I really hope this doesn't happen.

[seanondemand]

It might be a small niche Framework fills, but they’re kind of the only game in town for consumer-oriented modular laptops. For the moment, it feels like they’re sitting pretty. 
 

and not to be an armchair psychologist, but if I’m a repair advocate like Linus and more brands start to compete with Framework to bring more “repairable” laptops to the consumer market, I bet that investment still feels like a win. 

[Guest]

One of the misconceptions about right to repair is that you have to be the one to do the repair...which isn't 100% correct. While you are correct that not everyone will feel comfortable doing it themselves, it doesn't mean you have to be the one to do it yourself if you don't want to. If you do awesome, if you don't you can just bring it to someone who can (ie: family member, friend, or a repair shop of your choosing). For example, I could buy a Framework laptop for my parents who will have no interest in fixing it themselves....however, if needed I can fix it for them.

 

It's hard to say for sure, but so far looking from the outside in, it does appear that Framework seems to be doing well. They are still small, but they seem  to be generating a ton of interest and if the back-order status of their Ryzen laptops are anything to go by, it does appear they are doing ok thus far. I am sure they have margins built into their spare parts to further generate revenue, it only makes sense IMHO.

 

14 hours ago, seanondemand said:

and not to be an armchair psychologist, but if I’m a repair advocate like Linus and more brands start to compete with Framework to bring more “repairable” laptops to the consumer market, I bet that investment still feels like a win. 

This is the main motivation behind Linus' investment in Framework. He is fully aware that he could lose all of his money, make nothing at all and that Framework could close tomorrow....however, that wasn't his motivation for doing it in the first place. His motivation was to support a company that shares his personal value of right to repair. Hoping at the very least, this will change the the industry for the better, by making the likes of Dell, HP, Lenovo (heck even Apple), etc... make their devices more easily repairable. So, this wasn't about making money, but rather supporting a cause hoping that everyone will benefit long term, regardless of brand.

[Stahlmann]

Framework laptops aren't meant for the average andy that will never see the insides of a laptop. It's a brand meant for enthusiasts that are willing to put in some work to keep a device running for longer.

 

They will never compete with the likes of Apple, Dell, HP and so on. They're catering to a different customer.