GTA V story was a bit too plain, but GTA VI could be better...

[KEIN NEIN]

I started a thread on what GTA VI should be in my opinion here:

 

 

And I have some ideas for plot, so I want to know what you think of them:

 

I have finished GTA III two or three times, GTA VC three or four times, GTA SA, GTA LCS, GTA IV, GTA: TLAD, GTA: TBOGT and GTA V, I have also played a bit of GTA VCS and playing around with combat & other mechanics found in these titles. So that makes me think I know quite a bit about GTA to have an idea on how to make GTA VI decent enough.

 

I was planning to make a Word document and export it to PDF, but for some reason my computer doesn't let me do any of that, so here it is:

 

We all know that after the leaks and after 10 years without releasing any relevant hints on what the next GTA episode will be, R* is screwed real good. Anything that isn't better than GTA SA, GTA IV and GTA V combined is going to be a massive disappointment. So R* should keep an eye on what the community suggests, or people will keep seeing R* and Take 2 as money grab companies.

 

Anyway, let's get right into plot.

 

According to the leaks, the narrative will cover the lives of two criminals, which are supposed to be a couple. IMO, that approach is dumb; not only because it represents a step backwards from the 3-character plot seen in GTA V, also because like I said, this was leaked, so everyone expects to see two characters.

 

I believe the three character plot worked well in GTA Five, and having 4 dudes or chicks would add even more complexity, so going 3-character again makes sense to me. Now, heist-focused plot = B-O-R-I-N-G. They already did that in GTA V, and I get why they did it, Grand Theft Auto V was a lot 'bout the superficial, materialism and all that, but we don't want a copy of neither GTA V nor any other previous GTA game.

 

One of the core GTA components is satire, american satire to be exact, but maybe this time they should do more than just american satire. I know GTA is played by americans mostly, but nowadays nearly every country wants to be in the spotlight. The Koreans, the Latinos, the Chinese, the Indians, etcetera. So, despite being a bit odd, depicting other cultures would make the game relatable for more people. It is risky, but again, if Rockstar doesn't come up with a surprise, then it's going to be disappointing.

 

However, I still believe Vice City on its own has so much to offer in terms of multiculturalism that IMO, most of the events should occur there, without relegating other places. I suggested a fictional version of Monterrey, México (just bc I'm Mexican yeah yeah, jokes aside I believe it is also a multicultural city and has the proper size to be included in a 202_ release, and a brazilian city near the Amazonas. But I know, they could do a Cuban city, Colombian, etcetera.

 

Alright, we can go back to the locations later. What I'm most interested in: CHARACTERS.

 

My suggestion is: one female and two males, R* could even plot a dispute between the two males for the woman. Kind of crazy perhaps, but the chemistry would be quite interesting. There was a point in GTA V where Michael, Trevor and Franklin no longer trusted each other, and that could be replicated here, but the reasons behind the conflict would be completely different.

 

We talked about how GTA games are mostly about satire. This would make for a representation of modern society. Let's be honest here. Modern society is mostly a sh1th0l3. Criminals are raised and doomed by that detrimental society. The idea is to highlight just that, the average individual is dumb, reckless and evil. People neglect the damage they cause to other persons, and to other living organisms for that matter; they only realized they have f*ck3d up once it's too late. It sounds harsh, but it is what it is, and GTA isn't about being politically correct. The plot is going to dive deep into how criminals are born, feed, and destroyed. That has already been described in other games from the GTA franchise, but not enough level of details.

 

We don't know a lot about the past of personas like Tommy Vercetty, CJ, Niko Bellic, etc. We only know enough for the story to be congruent, and for us to feel intrigued by the connection that there could be between different releases from GTA. The point is not to kill all the mysteries behind the main characters, but to reveal that this people once had a bright future, had their lives not been ruined by someone else, and to tell, as the storyline unfolds, who ruined their lives, and what lead them to do what they do.

 

To give you an idea of what I'm talking. Let's take a look at this random lines:

 

Quote

Dude, why you keep doin' this? You've made it. You've gotten to the top of Vice City. You don't need no money, you've got protection, you've successfully defeated your past, why bother messing up with these big guys?

To which our main character responds:

Quote

It's simple. This bit**es think they can have everything, and get away with it. They rob, rape, murder, burn. They run the best clubs, drive the best cars, have the biggest mansions in this town. Some of'em even have the courage to believe they can trick the masses into thinking that they are the good guys. I am definitely no good guy, but at least I know being the bad guy has consequences, and I wanna show'em their stupidity has consequences too, cause' they'll always have somebody chasing after their a$$. If not me, it'll be someone else. They need to realize they'll never have peace, that's all.

Now a talk with the second main character:

 

Quote

I'm getting sick of you, you never tell me sh*t, you don't understand what is going on here, and you don't...

Quote

You know what? When I was young, I won the prize of every contest I got in: beauty contests, chemistry, programming... And now I'm f*ckin' here!!!!, listening to you complaining every time, doing stuff that only gets me in trouble!!, I have become what you wanted me to become... a bloody lu-na-tic!!!! So you better shut up or I'll put you in the ground!!!

And the third character dialogues would be like:

Quote

Man, this job is wack! I don't give a damn if defeating crime is the right thing to do or not, I didn't work so hard for this junk. As always, I do all the dirty work and I only get to scratch the leftovers, my partners are all dickh3ads, and I don't have the creating control of anything, everythin' is just "do this, do that, it's your fault, it's all horsesh*t!. The only saving grace is that the muscles get some chicks, but that ain't cuttin' it. If only I could be the real deal for one time, I'm talkin' the protagonist you know... the one that is acclaimed by the whole community...

Quote

But maaan... why do you care? You are the funny mutherfuck*r!!, you got all the action, you kick as$es, you are making a difference! I wish I had your job and wasn't just holding this stupid camera. 

 

So um, it's difficult to explain, but the idea is to tacke different situations that are relevant in the 2020s. (Just like any other GTA title has done). Not trying to be political here, but let's face it: modern society is all about media scandal, ppl with power abusing the system, lots of culprits trying to justify their action, and so many other unfortunate situations. Many of you probably remember "The Joker". At the beginning, I believed it was all hype because DC but no. It actually tells an important story. People that are different are treated like trash. Nobody wants to understand and or tolerate anything, they just live inside a bubble hating on anyone who is superior or inferior because they can't tolerate anything.  It's the feminists against the males, the whites against the blacks (no racism here) the Latinos against the other Latinos, the Koreans against their government, it's all disputes for no reason. The money matters, but the food doesn't. It's utter insanity.

 

So this goes to show the problems of modern society. We have lots of people going NUTS, US' violence streak is the perfect example of that, but the truth is that not only is the US a violent place. 

 

I'd love to talk about gameplay, but this is long enough. Some other time, I guess. Let me see what you think OFC.

[dizmo]

GTA VI is pretty much done, if not done already.

I'd probably keep this to a single thread.

[Montana One-Six]

Honestly didn't read all of it. Anyway here are my thoughts on some of the things you brought up.

 

About characters I personally don't like playing multiple characters at the same time because it makes it harder to care for each individual character. In GTA V I always played Franklin. I ignored the other 2 and only played as them when I was forced to. So for GTA VI it would be best imo if they get rid of the multiple characters thing. However if they feel the need to include multiple characters like GTA V I personally think it would be better to limit it to just two or make it so that you pick one character that you can play for the whole game without being forced to another.

 

I don't agree with your assessment that GTA VI has to be better than the last 3 combined. The only thing it has to do to be considered a success is to be better than V especially since most people these days never played the older GTAs. Bonus points if it goes back to its roots and brings features back that have been missing since SA but that would only be the cherry on top.

Also what does it take to be better because honestly the last GTA games haven't been better than their predecessors. My favorite GTA ever is SA. The game after that GTA IV was also at a similar level but not quite. GTA IV had a lot less things to do outside of missions and also missing tons of features. Things GTA IV did better was the story and the overall more realistic feel to the game. The game after GTA IV was again a step down from its predecessor. GTA V brought back some features and activities but also lost a few and is still not at the level of GTA SA. The story wasn't as good as GTA IV plus the missions got more linear and repetitive. Also GTA V lost the more realistic touch GTA IV had.

[venomtail]

I didn't read everything. There's too much, needs to be far more concise. Not a writer but I've dabbled, and want to continue (maybe there's some amateur writers communities/competitons? if that's even how it works like there's game jams and other competitions), so in a sense what you've written sounds very surface level. There is no why in your post.

 

Think about the medium that GTA is. Anything serious can't be explored. Players actions do not reflect gameplay. As an example, nice touch in Plague's Tale: Requiem is that when Amicia starts loosing her edge, she starts to enjoy killing, often justifying it as revenge. Gameplay wise more and more options for bloodthirsty kills opens up. Deeper than that, the game often encourages the player to take the violent path and run away because it's easier than being stealthy, saving lives and doing the right thing, just like in the story. You not only take the shoes of the main character narratively but also through your own actions as you yourself want to take the bloodthirsty route because its easier. You start enjoying killing guards in far more creative ways just like Amicia does in the story. A reflection of one to one.

 

This level of depth is not possible for Rockstar to explore. There will be a bipolar world, story if it's sensere yet the moment a cutscene/missions ends, the player can do a 180 and start mindlessly killing everyone. GTA isn't a caricature, commentary because that was the intentions of the writers, it's a caricature and ironic commentary because that's the only thing that's left for them to choose.

[KEIN NEIN]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:40 PM, dizmo said:

GTA VI is pretty much done, if not done already.

I'd probably keep this to a single thread.

Got it, thanks.

[KEIN NEIN]

On 4/30/2023 at 6:31 AM, Montana One-Six said:

However if they feel the need to include multiple characters like GTA V I personally think it would be better to limit it to just two or make it so that you pick one character that you can play for the whole game without being forced to another.

The problem of doing that is that, making a story that isn't a nonsense disaster gets more difficult, that's part of what ruined GTA V dev. You choose to play with the dude and now the chick becomes irrelevant, or you do the opposite and now the dude's past is in the limbo. I mean, you go back to the game of "R* trying to please everyone by doing double the work and elaborating two different tramas", except you don't please everybody because there are only 2 characters and many people will like none of the characters anyway.

 

On 4/30/2023 at 6:31 AM, Montana One-Six said:

I don't agree with your assessment that GTA VI has to be better than the last 3 combined. The only thing it has to do to be considered a success is to be better than V especially since most people these days never played the older GTAs. Bonus points if it goes back to its roots and brings features back that have been missing since SA, but that would only be the cherry on top.

If GTA VI is only better than V, then it is a pure disappointment. People goin' to believe R* spent 10+ years not to over-deliver, but to barely beat V. 

 

On 4/30/2023 at 6:31 AM, Montana One-Six said:

My favorite GTA ever is SA. The game after that GTA IV was also at a similar level but not quite. GTA IV had a lot less things to do outside of missions and also missing tons of features. Things GTA IV did better was the story and the overall more realistic feel to the game. The game after GTA IV was again a step down from its predecessor. GTA V brought back some features and activities but also lost a few and is still not at the level of GTA SA. The story wasn't as good as GTA IV plus the missions got more linear and repetitive. Also GTA V lost the more realistic touch GTA IV had.

GTA SA is the old favorite, that I get very well. Like I ever said, it was possibility-focused. The game gave you options, and if R* hadn't given you enough options upon release, then the community would give you EVEN MORE options.

 

GTA IV, like you said, was realism and story-focused. It didn't allow you to do things that weren't rational at all, like a gang member shooting missiles at secret agents; but I remember it was also criticized, precisely because it didn't give you the gameplay diversity GTA SA did back in the day.

 

GTA V tried to combine GTA SA and IV, except it was about only updating the multiplayer and whatever update the single-player mod got was only to destroy, ever so slightly, the experience.

 

My point being, you prefer SA over IV, and I can consider V better than IV and SA, but the reality is that old R* tried to do their upmost to do something decent, and nowadays, they don't try, they're all about selling. Hence, I say GTA VI could be better…  Not that I strongly believe it will be better, but all I'm talking here is about that it COULD be.

 

 

 

[KEIN NEIN]

On 4/30/2023 at 12:39 PM, venomtail said:

There's too much, needs to be far more concise.

 

what you've written sounds very surface level. There is no why in your post.

Well, this post is more random concepts and ramble than a WHY. And deep level and too less text quite compatible IMO. I assume you meant I need more structure to make the reading appealing. But sadly, I'm dispersed, which is part of the reason why I didn't answer to this thread sooner.

 

On 4/30/2023 at 12:39 PM, venomtail said:

This level of depth is not possible for Rockstar to explore. There will be a bipolar world, story if it's sinsere yet the moment a cutscene/missions ends, the player can do a 180 and start mindlessly killing everyone. GTA isn't a caricature, commentary because that was the intentions of the writers, it's a caricature and ironic commentary because that's the only thing that's left for them to choose.

I kind of get what you're saying. But I don't think R* are unable to do a deep game. Rather, R* seem reluctant to go deep.

 

Take a look at GTA IV for example, gameplay seemed to be, to an extent, in sync with the narrative. Niko can't improve his stats because he is a trained soldier, and acquiring +100% body mass and +100% shooting skill in within the storyline time period is blatantly irrational. He can kill dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of innocents because 99% of the time he didn't pretend to be the good guy.

 

I do not know if R* was going for a super commercial game or not. But they made a game so different from GTA SA, which was not widely accepted in the beginning, but eventually became a big hit.

 

 

 

[Montana One-Six]

8 hours ago, KEIN NEIN said:

The problem of doing that is that, making a story that isn't a nonsense disaster gets more difficult, that's part of what ruined GTA V dev. You choose to play with the dude and now the chick becomes irrelevant, or you do the opposite and now the dude's past is in the limbo. I mean, you go back to the game of "R* trying to please everyone by doing double the work and elaborating two different tramas", except you don't please everybody because there are only 2 characters and many people will like none of the characters anyway.

I don't quite follow your line of thoughts here. Also there are tons of options to make a 2 character system work while you still only play one of them. Some things that could be implemented to make that work:

- the second character becomes a companion that does the things by himself without player interaction while you do whatever the other character does

- if the character you don't want to play does something story related alone he tells you about it afterwards, you watch it in the news, hear about it form a 3rd party,...

I don't see how that would negatively influence gameplay. 

 

8 hours ago, KEIN NEIN said:

If GTA VI is only better than V, then it is a pure disappointment. People goin' to believe R* spent 10+ years not to over-deliver, but to barely beat V. 

8 hours ago, KEIN NEIN said:

I can consider V better than IV and SA

Yes that is your opinion. But that also means as long as VI is better than V it would also be better than IV and SA in your eyes or would it not?

 

8 hours ago, KEIN NEIN said:

Hence, I say GTA VI could be better…  Not that I strongly believe it will be better, but all I'm talking here is about that it COULD be.

We will have to wait and see for ourselves. But if the overall trend of Rockstar games of the last 15-20 years are any indicator of the direction GTA is going I would say it will be a more linear story than V that is more focused on visuals than actual gameplay with a lot of bling bling that most likely is more or less irrelevant and sometimes borderline annoying like in RDR 2. I hope I am wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if that turns out to be true.

[KEIN NEIN]

On 5/4/2023 at 10:44 PM, KEIN NEIN said:

Well, this post is more random concepts and ramble than a WHY.

I do have the ideas, only I do not have the time to write down every single thing I've come up with bc I am a college student and I find it hard to focus on just one task.

 

[KEIN NEIN]

On 5/5/2023 at 6:46 AM, Montana One-Six said:

There are tons of options to make a 2 character system work while you still only play one of them. Some things that could be implemented to make that work:

Yeah, sure. 2-player formula can work, I don't deny that. Even myself thinks the 3rd character is, even in a best-case-scenario, going to be eclipsed by the chemistry btw a male and a female. But Trevor was the exact same thing, If you remove Trevor out of the GTA V equation you get, well. 2 characters that can seamlessly deliver a good storylike, without having to separate their worlds from each other.

 

On 5/5/2023 at 6:46 AM, Montana One-Six said:

- the second character becomes a companion that does the things by himself without player interaction while you do whatever the other character does

That sounds reasonable, I mean, I strongly believe that a game where you have three cities and three players where you can do individual missions & stuff without having to require 2 or more characters to execute the mission, makes sense. But if you stick to that individualism based gameplay, It's like trying to do 2 or 3 different games. So It wouldn't be one game, rather; what Grand Theft Auto IV did with its Episodes. So we would be going back to the money-grabbing-DLC formula.

 

On 5/5/2023 at 6:46 AM, Montana One-Six said:

- if the character you don't want to play does something story related alone he tells you about it afterwards, you watch it in the news, hear about it form a 3rd party,...

I don't see how that would negatively influence gameplay. 

Ofc that can be done considering how dependent we are on social media nowadays.

 

But unlike you, I DO SEE how that would negatively influence gameplay. It wouldn't be a game, but rather, 2 games trying to please different audiences. Maybe if I upload a diagram or something you would get what I am trying to outline when it comes to integrating 2 or 3 characters in the same story, not the way you suggest (not that I don't appreciate your ideas), but the way I would think it would make sense plot-wise.

 

On 5/5/2023 at 6:46 AM, Montana One-Six said:

Yes, that is your opinion. But that also means as long as VI is better than V it would also be better than IV and SA in your eyes, or would it not?

Yes it would, but remember, the problem is not GTA VI having to beat GTA V because that would also imply beating GTA SA and IV [according to my logic of GTA V > (GTA SA + GTA V)],

 

The problem is GTA VI having to probably beat GTA III, VC, SA, IV and V combined. Because apparently, people aren't willing to wait 10+ years for something that is only better than V in certain aspects, but worse in many others. R* is taking more time, and GTA Fans are more and more anxious to get their hands on the new GTA.

 

Most casuals go like this (according to my background in games and tech):

 

"GTA 3 was phenomenal, but city is two small"

"GTA VC music and plot is great, but in essence; the game is not very different from GTA III"

"GTA SA is god (sorry) but graphics are wack"

"GTA IV realism is absolutely insane, but in GTA you could f*k chicks with mods and fly airplanes"

"GTA V is king of multiplayer, except it isn't, because people and corporate greed ruined the multiplayer and ignored Single-Player"

 

The gaming & entertainment industry is so obnoxiously big that, do you be Rockstar, can you NO longer take the time and let people appreciate the work so many creatives, executives and devs have put in. And it makes sense because people pay big cash in this things and expect big results. That's gaming in a nutshell, I would say.

 

This ain't about you being right or me being wrong, or any other possible combination. This is 'bout "gamers", assuming they got the cash, spend no less than $1000 in electronics plus games, and ofc you're going to DEMAND a BRUTAL GAME. Because, at least in the 1st world, money talks a lot.

On 5/5/2023 at 6:46 AM, Montana One-Six said:

is more focused on visuals than actual gameplay with a lot of bling bling that most likely is more or less irrelevant and sometimes borderline annoying like in RDR 2. I hope I am wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if that turns out to be true.

U gotta believe me on this one as well, that is sadly, going to be true. Which is a real shame. But well, at least I can share my GTA 6 perspective with you boys. That's all.

 

Anyway, I may keep working on ideas. Just don't expect that to be materialized into a document or anything of that sort anytime soon.

[KEIN NEIN]

On 4/30/2023 at 12:39 PM, venomtail said:

I didn't read everything. There's too much, needs to be far more concise. Not a writer but I've dabbled, and want to continue 

'Alright. Here's plot concept:

 

3 dudes, one American, one Japanese and one Brazilian. The crazy one, the mastermind, and the funny guy.

 

American comes from some part of California, and has lived most of her life in a parody of Monterrey (Valle Alto, I'd suggest). City and background is not important, though.

 

American is female, and is the typical bad chick stereotype. Maybe ppl in their 20s can recall Kim Possible and Lara Croft kind of thing. Girl is actually the evolution of Catalina from GTA III (and from SA to some extent). Except, she isn't neither with the colombians nor lives in a skumole. She isn't Latina, either. BC nobody cares about Latin race anyway, and also; white makes more sense in Northern Mexico.

 

So many people including me talks about how GTA is meant to be all about the US, and then about the US, and finally (yeah, you guessed it); the US. Which leads us to the second character.

 

The second character isn't American. Although this type knows the streets very well, simply because he's an Asian immigrant who escaped from Japan because he couldn't stand the protocol. 

 

3rd character is Brazilian (you'll see why in a minute). Ppl say you don't neeed a third character because the 3-character formula didn't work out in GTA V, and you can have a good game if there's chemistry between the two. Traditional couples are dead, so is the 80s from Vice City TBH. I'd rather play a weird futuristic GTA than an antique depiction of two lovers. We've got that in GTA 3, SA, IV, V, and I'd say, in nearly every single GTA ever released.

 

Do people want to go back to VC? That's great. Do they want to go back to SA? That's ambitious, but possible. Now they want IV? Then we'd need a better storyline than just a bunch of lovers robbin' banks and sh*t. And how 'bout V? We can picture that as well.

 

We necessitate three guys, because WE WOULD HAVE DISSENSION between the group. Binary decisions are technically simple, that's why our electronics do 1's and 0's. But if you've taken a lesson or two on quantum mechanics, the real world is more complicated than that.

 

I know, I know. This analogy is a bit odd. But, what I mean is, WHAT IF we have a dispute between the two guys for the girl. Wouldn't that be less plain than just a naive love and bullets' story? Think of that for a second...

 

You may argue, (Well, WHAT IF I don't wanna play with the girl? You can still do it, only you don't progress in the story mode. There will be many initial missions, where you can go independent of the rest. But you can't get real deep into the storyline if there's no significant connection between each character. The game will give you the freedom to do strangers and freaks' missions. But if you actually seek satire, then, inevitably, YOU HAVE TO combine and integrate their worlds. NOT IN EVERY MISSION, but in the missions that matter...

 

From now on, I will be talking on every piece of idea I have, so the text becomes more structured and less drowsy. 

 

That's all I have for now

 

 

[KEIN NEIN]

I have been revisiting GTA IV, V, COD MW 2 and Battlefield 4. All games played on Xbox 360, except GTA V which was Xbox One (can't afford a better PC just yet). I am also planning on revisiting GTA SA, VCS and III, and if possible, I will finish GTA VCS campaign for the first time. Anyway, this is what I think.

 

GTA III has the darkest plot and vibes of all 3D GTA games. It doesn't matter who you kill, as long as you get paid or enjoy it, it works.

 

GTA VC goes to show exactly what happens when you mess with the wrong guy. The pure definition of greed and ambition.

 

GTA SA is the most memorable, as it opens a world of gameplay possibilities, many of which were created by the community.

 

GTA IV goes the deepest in the storyline and was a significant step-up in realism, even though it was a cut-down in possibilities.

 

GTA V is the most advanced in most regards. But it's also very superficial and plain on many aspects, like plot and car mechanics.

 

I am not going to speak of other GTA titles. Either because I haven't played them enough or because I don't think they're relevant.

 

I'll update this thread as I finish my coursework and such. Peace.

[KEIN NEIN]

After comparing climate, crime and other metrics in different cities from Mexico, I realized Monterrey isn't the best representation of Mexico's current problematics, as it pretty much the most developed and prosperous region in Mexico. Tall skyscrapers, some of the best schools in the country, high wages, lots of factories, etcetera.

 

Guadalajara, on the other hand, would make up for the real sewer some of us face day after day. It is smaller than Monterrey (which makes it less of a problem when it comes to video game design), but way bigger than Cancún and, at the same time, Different from Miami because it's not just another beach.