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DNS error under high internet usage

SpatialBarrel00

under high usage the internet stops for 2-10 mins from a DNS name resolution error, this didn't used to happen and just started at some point but after a rollback to before the problems started they still happen, tried flush DNS, internet reset, even different internet hardware and still didn't fix, disconnecting form the internet and reconnecting will fix the issue but its still annoying and would like a fiximage.png.59c5c20b892da98eaa175c2fbe7eef1d.pngimage.png.37e9c4318e46862300830b388fdf8b53.pngimage.png.a5e1ccf76ce9ae9ff2e2dc7dfd1a3b87.png

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The reason this happens is that your ISP connection is smaller than your network connection  (eg provisioned for 75mbit but your ISP is really only giving you 72)

 

The only realistic way to solve this is to cap your network or just your PC to exactly your provisioned bandwith (eg go to speed test and run three tests and pick the lowest of the three.) Any time your bandwidth is maxed out (Eg uploading things to youtube will do it) DNS will stop working as requests aren't being given priority.

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53 minutes ago, SpatialBarrel00 said:

from a DNS name resolution error

Have you try the basic on this and try 3rd party DNS resolvers like Google DNS (4.4.4.4 and 4.8.8.4) or Cloudflare DNS (1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1)?

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9 hours ago, SorryClaire said:

Have you try the basic on this and try 3rd party DNS resolvers like Google DNS (4.4.4.4 and 4.8.8.4) or Cloudflare DNS (1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1)?

This…

 

Id change the DNS IP in your router to 1.1.1.1 if you know how/can do that. Your router is getting its DNS via DHCP from your ISP, and ISP DNS usually is garbage. You can override it in the router to Cloudflare (1.1.1.1) and the router will then provide that via DHCP to all devices in your network. 
 

If you don’t know how to do it in the router, you can do it in the screenshot you sent. Use preferred DNS of 1.1.1.1 (Cloudflare) and 8.8.8.8 (google) as the alternate. 

 

See if that helps. 

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11 hours ago, Kisai said:

The reason this happens is that your ISP connection is smaller than your network connection  (eg provisioned for 75mbit but your ISP is really only giving you 72)

That's not how networking functions, DNS should still get through even when maxed out as even if some of the responses are dropped there should not be a scenario where they ALL get dropped.

Something odd is going on here, possibly the router running a DNS proxy/cache that is crashing.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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39 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

That's not how networking functions, DNS should still get through even when maxed out as even if some of the responses are dropped there should not be a scenario where they ALL get dropped.

Something odd is going on here, possibly the router running a DNS proxy/cache that is crashing.

No, if your uplink connection is being constrained, it will be unable to make DNS queries. That is what always happens when the ISP gives you a connection that is less than the network's capability. This is what I've seen happen every time something is uploaded without capping the upstream bandwidth. It doesn't matter what else you're doing. Upload a video to youtube, and every single thing on the computer that is using the network stops after several seconds, no matter what your downlink speed or capacity is.

 

Microsoft reserves some of the bandwidth in default settings, but those default settings assume your PC is connected to a LAN at 100mbps/1gbps not at some fractional value of that. So that holdback doesn't work.

 

The OP literately said this happens because of high network utilization. This would therefor happen regardless of the DNS settings.

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11 minutes ago, Kisai said:

No, if your uplink connection is being constrained, it will be unable to make DNS queries. That is what always happens when the ISP gives you a connection that is less than the network's capability. This is what I've seen happen every time something is uploaded without capping the upstream bandwidth. It doesn't matter what else you're doing. Upload a video to youtube, and every single thing on the computer that is using the network stops after several seconds, no matter what your downlink speed or capacity is.

 

Microsoft reserves some of the bandwidth in default settings, but those default settings assume your PC is connected to a LAN at 100mbps/1gbps not at some fractional value of that. So that holdback doesn't work.

 

The OP literately said this happens because of high network utilization. This would therefor happen regardless of the DNS settings.

This… is definitely not at all how this works. 
 

To be fair, I did experience similar issues with the internet in general back in the early days, like….. 2005? It is true that if you fully saturate a link (such as uploading at max speed) it could hinder download speed, but it shouldn’t cause every single other outbound or inbound request to fail. I upload things all the time without any sort of rate limit in place and definitely never get dropped packets. That said, almost all DOCSIS connections do have lanes for upload and download. If you are in a very old connection or have a really old modem, maybe you wouldn’t have delegate lanes, and then uploading does absolutely nuke your download, but that is just a guess on my part. That hasn’t been an issue in any internet connection I have used in the last decade+, so I am just making an assumption as to why. 
 

Also, your OS is not rate limiting anything. Ethernet is full duplex, it can send and receive at full speed in both directions… your OS isn’t going to try and limit anything. I routinely send data to my NAS at full gigabit, it isn’t limiting it, and it certainly doesn’t impact my internet browsing capability.

Rig: i7 13700k - - Asus Z790-P Wifi - - RTX 4080 - - 4x16GB 6000MHz - - Samsung 990 Pro 2TB NVMe Boot + Main Programs - - Assorted SATA SSD's for Photo Work - - Corsair RM850x - - Sound BlasterX EA-5 - - Corsair XC8 JTC Edition - - Corsair GPU Full Cover GPU Block - - XT45 X-Flow 420 + UT60 280 rads - - EK XRES RGB PWM - - Fractal Define S2 - - Acer Predator X34 -- Logitech G502 - - Logitech G710+ - - Logitech Z5500 - - LTT Deskpad

 

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I think I can safely say I've never experienced anything close to this since dialup, though granted I've never had cable, just DSL and now fibre.

 

I could imagine this happening if your router is a pile of junk, in which case rate-limiting isn't really going to work as the place you need to rate limit is the router.

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

That is what always happens when the ISP gives you a connection that is less than the network's capability.

I don't understand what you even mean by this, ISPs almost always give you a connection that is a small slice of the networks capability.  Even if they give you the full speed, this would be no different once you saturate that speed to having a smaller slice and saturating that.  A saturated connection is a saturated connection, the same rules apply.

 

I suppose its possible your ISP is trying to deliver traffic quicker than your line is capable (they provisioned higher than your line rate), but the same thing is happening at the network level either way, its just how close to you its happening that changes.  Yes performing QoS limiting at your end will help, but it absolutely should not be necessary to make the connection work at all when saturated.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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24 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I don't understand what you even mean by this, ISPs almost always give you a connection that is a small slice of the networks capability.  Even if they give you the full speed, this would be no different once you saturate that speed to having a smaller slice and saturating that.  A saturated connection is a saturated connection, the same rules apply.

 

 

On DSL, the ISP can provision various profiles. So they advertise 75/25 but the actual profile is this:

image.thumb.png.17bed8854a3c6d026b8d527bff07400b.png

image.png.494bff6bae0c436343f1044281beffb9.png

 

Note that both 80.4 and 20.9 are not 88.3 and 22.5.

 

My mistake, they currently offer:

image.thumb.png.1c809ff8fa4e429b3b8c2499e2266f08.png

At any rate that doesn't change the scenario.

 

So if you are uploading a video you youtube. This happens 100% of the time:

Start upload, about 30 seconds or so in, everything on the computer, and network stops working. DNS requests time out, cached DNS (eg things still sitting in the web browser) time out if you reload them, ssh connections disconnect. Basically any time I upload a youtube video, I can do nothing else but use the internet on my phone instead.

 

How I get around that is I explicitly rate limit chrome so that it can not upload at a rate more than provisioned. eg this way:

image.png.22ed9b27f07daa05be1678c0df5ab493.png

 

However if I allow Davinci Resolve upload the video, the same thing happens, and the only way to hold back Davinci is by using third party software to rate limit network connections on the pc.

 

The point I'm making here, is that what the OP is experiencing is pretty much the same thing I experience, and thus if they rate-limit the uplink to 90% of what the speed test tells them they have, not what the ISP tells them they have, not what the modem/router is provisioned at, the problem should go away.

 

There is no other reason why consuming bandwidth causes the DNS to die. But not all network symptoms are the same problem. Like the other thing that comes to mind is there is device on the LAN side and it's sending out DHCP responses to try and knock the computer off the network, which would explain why the DNS times out, because you're temporarily connected to another device. But that is unlikely if the OP is only using their own computer on it.

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Kisai said:

 

On DSL, the ISP can provision various profiles. So they advertise 75/25 but the actual profile is this:

image.thumb.png.17bed8854a3c6d026b8d527bff07400b.png

image.png.494bff6bae0c436343f1044281beffb9.png

 

Note that both 80.4 and 20.9 are not 88.3 and 22.5.

 

My mistake, they currently offer:

image.thumb.png.1c809ff8fa4e429b3b8c2499e2266f08.png

At any rate that doesn't change the scenario.

 

So if you are uploading a video you youtube. This happens 100% of the time:

Start upload, about 30 seconds or so in, everything on the computer, and network stops working. DNS requests time out, cached DNS (eg things still sitting in the web browser) time out if you reload them, ssh connections disconnect. Basically any time I upload a youtube video, I can do nothing else but use the internet on my phone instead.

 

How I get around that is I explicitly rate limit chrome so that it can not upload at a rate more than provisioned. eg this way:

image.png.22ed9b27f07daa05be1678c0df5ab493.png

 

However if I allow Davinci Resolve upload the video, the same thing happens, and the only way to hold back Davinci is by using third party software to rate limit network connections on the pc.

 

The point I'm making here, is that what the OP is experiencing is pretty much the same thing I experience, and thus if they rate-limit the uplink to 90% of what the speed test tells them they have, not what the ISP tells them they have, not what the modem/router is provisioned at, the problem should go away.

 

There is no other reason why consuming bandwidth causes the DNS to die. But not all network symptoms are the same problem. Like the other thing that comes to mind is there is device on the LAN side and it's sending out DHCP responses to try and knock the computer off the network, which would explain why the DNS times out, because you're temporarily connected to another device. But that is unlikely if the OP is only using their own computer on it.

 

 

 

Maybe this is a DSL issue, seeing as I have not experienced it in such a long time. If OP is on DSL, I concede that this may be possible. 

Rig: i7 13700k - - Asus Z790-P Wifi - - RTX 4080 - - 4x16GB 6000MHz - - Samsung 990 Pro 2TB NVMe Boot + Main Programs - - Assorted SATA SSD's for Photo Work - - Corsair RM850x - - Sound BlasterX EA-5 - - Corsair XC8 JTC Edition - - Corsair GPU Full Cover GPU Block - - XT45 X-Flow 420 + UT60 280 rads - - EK XRES RGB PWM - - Fractal Define S2 - - Acer Predator X34 -- Logitech G502 - - Logitech G710+ - - Logitech Z5500 - - LTT Deskpad

 

Headphones/amp/dac: Schiit Lyr 3 - - Fostex TR-X00 - - Sennheiser HD 6xx

 

Homelab/ Media Server: Proxmox VE host - - 512 NVMe Samsung 980 RAID Z1 for VM's/Proxmox boot - - Xeon e5 2660 V4- - Supermicro X10SRF-i - - 128 GB ECC 2133 - - 10x4 TB WD Red RAID Z2 - - Corsair 750D - - Corsair RM650i - - Dell H310 6Gbps SAS HBA - - Intel RES2SC240 SAS Expander - - TreuNAS + many other VM’s

 

iPhone 14 Pro - 2018 MacBook Air

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5 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

should not be a scenario where they ALL get dropped.

Ive taken down my internet with BitTorrent before. BitTorrent ate all the upstream and nothing else would work. After limiting the upload rate in my BitTorrent client I was able to restore the connection. Im wondering if the OP is eating all of their upstream? 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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3 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

Maybe this is a DSL issue, seeing as I have not experienced it in such a long time. If OP is on DSL, I concede that this may be possible. 

I was on DSL until very recently and was never able to break DNS.

 

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Ive taken down my internet with BitTorrent before. BitTorrent ate all the upstream and nothing else would work. After limiting the upload rate in my BitTorrent client I was able to restore the connection. Im wondering if the OP is eating all of their upstream? 

In the early days the problem I had with bittorrent was the number of connections surpassed what my router could handle.  It was probably about that time I switched to OpenWRT and ultimately back to a PC, which was what I also had as my first router (before consumer routers existed, I had Linux NAT running on dialup).

Still, I do not recall ever being able to break DNS just from hammering the connection, even on dialup.  It would of course get really really slow.  But then even back then I think dnsmasq existed.

 

If having to "reset the internet" means rebooting the router, then it very much sounds like a dodgy router.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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22 hours ago, SorryClaire said:

Have you try the basic on this and try 3rd party DNS resolvers like Google DNS (4.4.4.4 and 4.8.8.4) or Cloudflare DNS (1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1)?

i used use cloudflare and google with a static ip but changed back to DHCP to see if that would fix the issue and it did not

 

8 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

On DSL, the ISP can provision various profiles. So they advertise 75/25 but the actual profile is this:

image.thumb.png.17bed8854a3c6d026b8d527bff07400b.png

image.png.494bff6bae0c436343f1044281beffb9.png

 

Note that both 80.4 and 20.9 are not 88.3 and 22.5.

 

My mistake, they currently offer:

image.thumb.png.1c809ff8fa4e429b3b8c2499e2266f08.png

At any rate that doesn't change the scenario.

 

So if you are uploading a video you youtube. This happens 100% of the time:

Start upload, about 30 seconds or so in, everything on the computer, and network stops working. DNS requests time out, cached DNS (eg things still sitting in the web browser) time out if you reload them, ssh connections disconnect. Basically any time I upload a youtube video, I can do nothing else but use the internet on my phone instead.

 

How I get around that is I explicitly rate limit chrome so that it can not upload at a rate more than provisioned. eg this way:

image.png.22ed9b27f07daa05be1678c0df5ab493.png

 

However if I allow Davinci Resolve upload the video, the same thing happens, and the only way to hold back Davinci is by using third party software to rate limit network connections on the pc.

 

The point I'm making here, is that what the OP is experiencing is pretty much the same thing I experience, and thus if they rate-limit the uplink to 90% of what the speed test tells them they have, not what the ISP tells them they have, not what the modem/router is provisioned at, the problem should go away.

 

There is no other reason why consuming bandwidth causes the DNS to die. But not all network symptoms are the same problem. Like the other thing that comes to mind is there is device on the LAN side and it's sending out DHCP responses to try and knock the computer off the network, which would explain why the DNS times out, because you're temporarily connected to another device. But that is unlikely if the OP is only using their own computer on it.

 

 

 

 

my isp is PenTeleData and our internet package should support 500Mbps and i havent been able to saturate that, i did try switching back to static ip and dns and the problem still occurred image.thumb.png.7d92150a31f7ded0a25ff6697f934ed6.pngimage.png.48fb15df152d3e83e5e5f5ead453307a.pngimage.png.98be4df7e65969c396774254dff2ba1c.png

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13 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

On DSL, the ISP can provision various profiles. So they advertise 75/25 but the actual profile is this:

image.thumb.png.17bed8854a3c6d026b8d527bff07400b.png

image.png.494bff6bae0c436343f1044281beffb9.png

 

Note that both 80.4 and 20.9 are not 88.3 and 22.5.

 

My mistake, they currently offer:

image.thumb.png.1c809ff8fa4e429b3b8c2499e2266f08.png

At any rate that doesn't change the scenario.

 

So if you are uploading a video you youtube. This happens 100% of the time:

Start upload, about 30 seconds or so in, everything on the computer, and network stops working. DNS requests time out, cached DNS (eg things still sitting in the web browser) time out if you reload them, ssh connections disconnect. Basically any time I upload a youtube video, I can do nothing else but use the internet on my phone instead.

Again its not that simple, what speed your line is synced at is not an indication of what speed the ISP is rate-limting you to at the other end.

 

Yes you will get better performance if throttling your upstream (as your ISP can only throttle what is coming into your connection) but this absolutely should not be necessary to just make it work.  The fact the OP said they have to disconnect then reconnect the Internet to fix the problem also suggests this is not the problem, any problem from fully loading the connection should go away the second you stop uploading.

 

Also, comparing the line sync rate to the speed test rate is plain wrong.  A speed test looks at how much usable data can be moved across your broadband, the sync rate shows how much RAW data can be passed.  There are protocol overheads which causes the difference between the two, just as there is on the LAN too, why you can only do 940-960Mbit over a Gigabit connection.  This is perfectly normal and not an indication of a problem, in fact according to above they are getting much less overhead than I ever have on DSL.

 

The fact you personally have problems with everything freezing when maxing out your upload is a problem your end and not at all the normal thing for DSL to do.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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8 hours ago, SpatialBarrel00 said:

i used use cloudflare and google with a static ip but changed back to DHCP to see if that would fix the issue and it did not

 

my isp is PenTeleData and our internet package should support 500Mbps and i havent been able to saturate that, i did try switching back to static ip and dns and the problem still occurred 

Then the problem likely lies in your router, or another device on your network that you likely don't have, that network data is actually going through and it's crashing.

 

Network monitoring boxes (eg *******) actually hijack the default gateway when they are plugged in, and those boxes are not powerful enough to deal with high bandwidth. But if you have one, you wouldn't be allowed to say you do, and since they are off-the-shelf ARM SoC's, they're weak. 

 

If keeping a static IP solves it, then the problem is something on the network sending out DHCP when it shouldn't be, because that's resetting the network connection. So go through each device on your network (like do "arp -a" on your desktop) and verify you know what each device is.

 

Like the thing I suspect here is a double-router situation if capping the bandwidth doesn't do anything.

 

Changing the DNS server shouldn't change anything except when your router has a DNS (caching) proxy that isn't working. In some truely ancient (eg 1-10Mbit era devices) there is not enough memory on the device, that doing things like torrents would just crash the firewall or dns proxy on the device, as it would run out of memory to track the state of the connections. I doubt this is the case, but if your ISP gave you an underpowered router, it would not surprise me.

 

The "takes 2-10 minutes" to recover is suggestive that something either is crashing or rebooting. But if you take everything off the router and only connect your PC to it, that reduces the troubleshooting steps to "is it my pc, or is it the router", in which case you will still want to test with another PC.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

 

The fact you personally have problems with everything freezing when maxing out your upload is a problem your end and not at all the normal thing for DSL to do.

No, it's a problem with how the ISP has configured the device to allow more traffic than the DSL line traffic supports. In the case of Fiber, there's no connection profiles the ISP can configure that are directly line dependent. Fiber is fiber, and to give a customer something other than 100mbit or 1gbit, requires router itself to cap the transfer capacity.

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5 hours ago, Kisai said:

Then the problem likely lies in your router, or another device on your network that you likely don't have, that network data is actually going through and it's crashing.

 

Network monitoring boxes (eg *******) actually hijack the default gateway when they are plugged in, and those boxes are not powerful enough to deal with high bandwidth. But if you have one, you wouldn't be allowed to say you do, and since they are off-the-shelf ARM SoC's, they're weak. 

 

If keeping a static IP solves it, then the problem is something on the network sending out DHCP when it shouldn't be, because that's resetting the network connection. So go through each device on your network (like do "arp -a" on your desktop) and verify you know what each device is.

 

Like the thing I suspect here is a double-router situation if capping the bandwidth doesn't do anything.

 

Changing the DNS server shouldn't change anything except when your router has a DNS (caching) proxy that isn't working. In some truely ancient (eg 1-10Mbit era devices) there is not enough memory on the device, that doing things like torrents would just crash the firewall or dns proxy on the device, as it would run out of memory to track the state of the connections. I doubt this is the case, but if your ISP gave you an underpowered router, it would not surprise me.

 

The "takes 2-10 minutes" to recover is suggestive that something either is crashing or rebooting. But if you take everything off the router and only connect your PC to it, that reduces the troubleshooting steps to "is it my pc, or is it the router", in which case you will still want to test with another PC.

 

 

i have tested it on my brothers computer and it has the same problem, my router is a Netgear R6700v3 i think, how would i fond out what the problem is in the routerimage.thumb.png.7d9fd2c85545809dba5a3e538b57f14f.pngimage.thumb.png.d90b50967b98dbbf5f85c12aab5ce385.png

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Are you on cable? 

Rebooting ISP provided modem resolves the issue?

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, SpatialBarrel00 said:

i have tested it on my brothers computer and it has the same problem, my router is a Netgear R6700v3 i think, how would i fond out what the problem is in the routerimage.thumb.png.7d9fd2c85545809dba5a3e538b57f14f.pngimage.thumb.png.d90b50967b98dbbf5f85c12aab5ce385.png

Okay, so that narrows it down to the router. 

 

So you can either:

a) have the ISP try and troubleshoot it remotely 

b) swap it with an identical model from the same ISP

c) ask the ISP if you can replace it with your own device (likely the answer is no)

 

Like there should be log files. If you can login to it, and simply watch the log files, that would clue you in easier. 

 

My question here is, is this a double-router situation? Like what does the the netgear plug into? Does the problem go away if you plug your computer into that device where the router is plugged in?

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8 hours ago, Kisai said:

No, it's a problem with how the ISP has configured the device to allow more traffic than the DSL line traffic supports. In the case of Fiber, there's no connection profiles the ISP can configure that are directly line dependent. Fiber is fiber, and to give a customer something other than 100mbit or 1gbit, requires router itself to cap the transfer capacity.

I can understand the point you're trying to make but the explanation is incorrect.

 

You're trying to explain the concepts of congestion and has nothing to do with DSL's signalling. Whether DSL, COAX or fiber, the same concept applies to all of them. If there is a point in the path that reduces throughput below line rate or if multiple host are saturating at or above line rate, traffic will be queued and eventually dropped. This is common across all mediums.

 

The former can be due to physical limitations (DSL or COAX signalling and link speed step downs, ex. 1G -> 100mbps -> 1G) or artificially via policers/shapers. The end result of either essentially have the same outcomes.

 

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No, it's a problem with how the ISP has configured the device to allow more traffic than the DSL line traffic supports

 

The ISP is and has no involvement in what you're referring to. In DSL, the modem will perform a sync in which is determines is maximum rate. This rate is the raw throughput the line can handle and doesn't account for protocol overhead. 88/22mbps would be excluding ATM cell, ethernet, IP and protocol overhead which reduces the actual throughput. Yes, this can and is artificially capped depending on the customer's package but the ISP is not the one responsible for the customer pushing more traffic over the connection than it sustain.

 

For example, you provide screen shots of 88/22mbps sync rate. Since host will either use 100/1000 wired links, during sustained throughput a host will try to use as much as possible. This burst creates congestion and as a result traffic is queued and eventually dropped. It's then up to the host's congestion control to account for the packet loss. This applies to all mediums be it DSL or fiber and unless there is no possible points of congestion between two hosts, this will always occur. A host, router, modem, etc. does not know the link speed or available bandwidth along a path and is up to them to adjust accordingly.

 

19 hours ago, SpatialBarrel00 said:

image.png.90600618af74f2cfe41cd94b539b9f1d.png

The first thing I notice is this is over WIFI. Not only it even being a USB adapter, if that is the actual capabilities of the device, your using "WIFI 4" or 802.11n.

 

Under sustained load, yes you're going to have packet loss and so will other devices on the same same WIFI. The make matters worse, that adapter will impact speeds of all other WIFI devices because outside of WIFI 6e, rates are brought down to the highest rate that all devices support. AKA, all WIFI devices are brought down to 802.11n.

 

So to your OP, if this is wireless and 802.11n, this is not unexpected at all. First test with a wired connection directly to the router and see how things improve (make sure the device is still not connected to WIFI).

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1 hour ago, mynameisjuan said:

I can understand the point you're trying to make but the explanation is incorrect.

 

You're trying to explain the concepts of congestion and has nothing to do with DSL's signalling. Whether DSL, COAX or fiber, the same concept applies to all of them. If there is a point in the path that reduces throughput below line rate or if multiple host are saturating at or above line rate, traffic will be queued and eventually dropped. This is common across all mediums.

 

The former can be due to physical limitations (DSL or COAX signalling and link speed step downs, ex. 1G -> 100mbps -> 1G) or artificially via policers/shapers. The end result of either essentially have the same outcomes.

 

 

The ISP is and has no involvement in what you're referring to. In DSL, the modem will perform a sync in which is determines is maximum rate. This rate is the raw throughput the line can handle and doesn't account for protocol overhead. 88/22mbps would be excluding ATM cell, ethernet, IP and protocol overhead which reduces the actual throughput. Yes, this can and is artificially capped depending on the customer's package but the ISP is not the one responsible for the customer pushing more traffic over the connection than it sustain.

 

For example, you provide screen shots of 88/22mbps sync rate. Since host will either use 100/1000 wired links, during sustained throughput a host will try to use as much as possible. This burst creates congestion and as a result traffic is queued and eventually dropped. It's then up to the host's congestion control to account for the packet loss. This applies to all mediums be it DSL or fiber and unless there is no possible points of congestion between two hosts, this will always occur. A host, router, modem, etc. does not know the link speed or available bandwidth along a path and is up to them to adjust accordingly.

 

The first thing I notice is this is over WIFI. Not only it even being a USB adapter, if that is the actual capabilities of the device, your using "WIFI 4" or 802.11n.

 

Under sustained load, yes you're going to have packet loss and so will other devices on the same same WIFI. The make matters worse, that adapter will impact speeds of all other WIFI devices because outside of WIFI 6e, rates are brought down to the highest rate that all devices support. AKA, all WIFI devices are brought down to 802.11n.

 

So to your OP, if this is wireless and 802.11n, this is not unexpected at all. First test with a wired connection directly to the router and see how things improve (make sure the device is still not connected to WIFI).

unfortunately wired connection isnt a choice for my computer is on a different floor than our router but would different internet hardware work better or perhaps solve the issue, like a PCIE card?

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9 hours ago, SpatialBarrel00 said:

perhaps solve the issue, like a PCIE card?

While PCIE cards are considered better. When it comes to WiFi a lot of things that are outside of your control have to go right. Things like the building materials of your home play a big role for example. Dense materials like Concrete and brick will do very well on blocking WiFi. How busy the wireless spectrum is also plays a big role, keep in mind that the spectrum used by WiFi generally is unlicensed to use and therefore everyone and their mom can use it for other things as long as the rules/laws are followed. So without buying and trying, no one is going to be able to really give a definitive answer. 

 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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On 3/10/2023 at 3:32 PM, Kisai said:

No, it's a problem with how the ISP has configured the device to allow more traffic than the DSL line traffic supports. In the case of Fiber, there's no connection profiles the ISP can configure that are directly line dependent. Fiber is fiber, and to give a customer something other than 100mbit or 1gbit, requires router itself to cap the transfer capacity.

That's literally normal behaviour for how a router works and congestion control works identically regardless of what technology your broadband is delivered over, even fibre.  Without some form of QoS that prioritises smaller packets or specific traffic over others, any packets which surpass the routers buffers will simply be dropped.

It just becomes less obvious the faster your connection as proportionately more of that smaller traffic is going to get through.  Thus why on dialup the delay in getting a packet through might be large enough to cause a timeout on the client waiting for the response, but on DSL its far less likely unless something is very wrong.
 

Bear in mind I'm saying that as someone who has always used my own router which is completely unaware of what speed my DSL was capable of, and I've never HAD to set a speed limit to have a working connection while uploading, QoS just helps it work a bit smoother by prioritising the most important traffic above everything else.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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On 3/9/2023 at 2:30 AM, SorryClaire said:

Have you try the basic on this and try 3rd party DNS resolvers

Just leave that as it is please, do not use Google dns.  They have so much telemetry going on from chrome android and all that, the last thing anyone should do is give google a direct link to every website visited on any device.

 

Cloudflare is great, highly-technical, and constantly upgrades their infrastructure.  Just read their blog post.

 

Quad9 is located when they could be penalized for collected data on their users, as that is supposedly strict swiss law is regarding data privacy.

 

Notice how 9.9.9.9 is hilariously similar to some other provider.

: JRE #1914 Siddarth Kara

How bad is e-waste?  Listen to that Joe Rogan episode.

 

"Now you get what you want, but do you want more?
- Bob Marley, Rastaman Vibration album 1976

 

Windows 11 will just force business to "recycle" "obscolete" hardware.  Microsoft definitely isn't bothered by this at all, and seems to want hardware produced just a few years ago to be considered obsolete.  They have also not shown any interest nor has any other company in a similar financial position, to help increase tech recycling whatsoever.  Windows 12 might be cloud-based and be a monthly or yearly fee.

 

Software suggestions


Just get f.lux [Link removed due to forum rules] so your screen isn't bright white at night, a golden orange in place of stark 6500K bluish white.

released in 2008 and still being improved.

 

Dark Reader addon for webpages.  Pick any color you want for both background and text (background and foreground page elements).  Enable the preview mode on desktop for Firefox and Chrome addon, by clicking the dark reader addon settings, Choose dev tools amd click preview mode.

 

NoScript or EFF's privacy badger addons can block many scripts and websites that would load and track you, possibly halving page load time!

 

F-droid is a place to install open-source software for android, Antennapod, RethinkDNS, Fennec which is Firefox with about:config, lots of performance and other changes available, mozilla KB has a huge database of what most of the settings do.  Most software in the repository only requires Android 5 and 6!

 

I recommend firewall apps (blocks apps) and dns filters (redirect all dns requests on android, to your choice of dns, even if overridden).  RethinkDNS is my pick and I set it to use pi-hole, installed inside Ubuntu/Debian, which is inside Virtualbox, until I go to a website, nothing at all connects to any other server.  I also use NextDNS.io to do the same when away from home wi-fi or even cellular!  I can even tether from cellular to any device sharing via wi-fi, and block anything with dns set to NextDNS, regardless if the device allows changing dns.  This style of network filtration is being overridden by software updates on some devices, forcing a backup dns provuder, such as google dns, when built in dns requests are not connecting.  Without a complete firewall setup, dns redirection itself is no longer always effective.

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On 3/10/2023 at 4:06 PM, Kisai said:

my router is a Netgear R6700v3

What is your NetGear connected to? i.e. what did ISP give you? Are you on cable or fibre? If you're on cable and have a docsis modem provided by ISP, then the problem is likely with that box.

 

Edit: reading other comments, and I agree that you may have a WiFi problem. If you have a laptop you can borrow, try plugging it to the NetGear and see if it still works while your PC lost DNS.

Edited by PyCCo_TyPuCTo
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