What's with the razer hate

[andrewmp6]

I had a razer blackwidow die on me with in a year of owning it,For what it cost it should have lasted more then a year.But my 21 year old saitek eclipse i keep as a backup won't die!.

[Bombastinator]

6 hours ago, TechlessBro said:

Because they are smart people.

Razer made a few good early products and brought belkins gaming pads etc.

 

After that they became a software company that sells hardware to get their software installed. 
Each generations adds to the prices and lower the quality for fancy design and RGB.

 

Even when they make something good they force the @#$& drivers as a requirement even if the device works natively.

That’s a bit ugly.  Means they’re a spyware company.  The way to make money off having your software on someone’s system is to snoop.  That would make their products a security threat.

[mononymous]

There's the higher amounts of usage and the higher maturity of consumers. 

 

I won't consider a forum member a casual user. But that's the target market for the average razer product and that's fine. Their branding is strong and that's why people would buy them. Personally as long as the mouse supports a palm grip I'm quite happy. I use a Logitech G403 for two months a year and a DeathAdder for the rest. The former was on sale and the latter I bought in 2016/7 My dad still uses a DeathAdder (hand me down from me) that was included with a game preorder from 2008. Once you start pursuing for better or endgame level of quality people quickly outgrow them and that is par for the course. Razer came into the market quite early so the same people who bought those early Diamondbacks in the mid 2000s would be comfortably in their 30s. No longer the same gullible kids who would gobble up the marketing speak. 

 

Although I also don't see the fuss of the hate against razer. Being hateful takes energy to do and I don't want to use mine for that cause. That includes dabbling with conspiracies.

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

That’s a bit ugly.  Means they’re a spyware company.  The way to make money off having your software on someone’s system is to snoop.  That would make their products a security threat.

Just hire a security researcher to check whether they are a spyware company. If you don't have the money than gather a group to do so. It's still your choice to do it or not. 

 

[Isuck Assimov]

Bury me in my Razer Chroma Gaming Coffin

[Isseen]

I've used razer products for a while, a good experience (after uninstalling synapse) but not worth the price. If I want a good sound quality I'll go for beyerdynamic, if I want a keyboard I'll build a custom keyboard completly outclassing razer if I wan't a good mouse, well could't find any good alternatives for my Naga pro 

[RWNorthPole]

Just hopping in quickly to say RIP Razer Comms.

[Action_Johnson]

I don't hate Razer, but I don't like the aesthetic. 

[IRMacGuyver]

On 3/5/2023 at 5:26 AM, Bombastinator said:

would be awesome if it held up.  

Let me stop you right there because that's the problem.  It's cheap junk made from horrible materials. 

[Bombastinator]

On 3/6/2023 at 1:18 AM, TechlessBro said:

No spyware is when you don’t agree to terms and likely installed by someone else.

Data is a massive business and while people will click agree companies will collect it.

No different to any other data service like Microsoft etc from the OS. The problem here is you have to install their driver etc for it to work. Many peripherals just use HID and add to windows mouse settings.

 

Security threat yes, if that is part of your threat model. If or use social media and give away data anyway then not so much.

 

Mmmm……. No. Or spiritually no anyway.  Technically yes but only because of the specific definition of the term.  I suppose it’s an issue of definitions.   Spyware does have a specific meaning I suppose.  How about “Predationware” then? If your looking for data about a person without that persons knowledge in order to sell it that’s spying.  Sure there isn’t any law against it currently (largely due to it being supported by some very big money) but it doesn’t make it right. If you buy something and then discover “hey, I gotta metaphorically drop trou if I want to use this thing I just paid for, and the thing that makes it even legal is this multi page legal attachment” it’s an issue. The problem with shrink wrap licensing is you can put basically anything in it.  I keep waiting for someone to slip in a requirement to do something like make people dress up as a giant chicken or something. That would be legal too.  As long as you “sign” it.  Unless of course it’s not. You can’t sign yourself away to slavery because slavery is illegal, and a contract allowing it isn’t valid.  One of the things that invalidates a contract is signing under duress.  This is what they are arranging.  To get as close to duress as they can.  Those things can allow just about ANYTHING, as long as it isn’t explicitly against the law.  So is a shrinkwrap license for something you need duress? And/or should it be legal?  It certainly CAN be. Is software that spies spyware?  I say yes.  That’s the way words work.  

[Helpful Tech Witch]

On 2/21/2023 at 6:05 PM, 8tg said:

Their keyboards are vastly more expensive than keyboards of similar build quality and features, and then their keyboards overall get completely decimated by other companies offerings for the same money.

Yea the only reason I’ve got a razer keyboard is because i got a deal on a used huntsman mini and mamba wireless for 60$us and was already looking for a new keyboard and mouse. 60$ for that stuff was a steal and a half 

[Monsterkater]

23 hours ago, RWNorthPole said:

Just hopping in quickly to say RIP Razer Comms.

The one piece of software Razer made that actually had potential. Sadly also the one piece of software Razer didn't feel the need to keep development time on.

 

On topic for the rest of the thread: I used an OG Razer BlackWidow Ultimate, back in the day with Synapse 1.0, you know, the Synapse software you didn't need an account to use while still offering full functionality? With on-the-fly macro recording and re-programming of every single key including mouse buttons? Yeah, that was great while it lasted. Until some update made it bug out more often then not, losing profiles, crashing drivers. It really all went downhill from there.

I once owned a Tiamat 7.1 which I bought second hand but new in box (trying to help the environment out a little, y'know), with the original invoice even. Had some weird sound issue which definitely was a hardware problem - sounded a bit like static interference, but not quite, changing volume according to settings - which just wasn't fixable with any amount of troubleshooting. After a couple of days back-and-forth with their product support, even going so far as to record a video clearly showing the issue, their response was along the lines of "Oh, now that I think about it, you didn't purchase it first hand? I'm sorry I wasted my time with your issue, go buy another one."

The only thing I can actually stand by are their mice. They are decent, yet expensive. Yes, there definitely are better options for less money on the market, I just really like the Mamba's feel, they fit right up my alley. So it's just the path of least resistance for me: I know full well my current Mamba will die in some amount of years, come that day I can just go ahead and buy a customer returned Mamba of whatever is the current generation then from like Amazon Warehouse or the local Craigslist equivalent and be good to go. Of course, that's only true as long as at least their mice keep working without their crappy software. Never ever again in my life do I want to see Synapse on my computer. Other than mice though, I will stay clear of Razer as a company once and for all.

 

So no, it's not hate per se, it's just realizing that they a) either don't offer the same quality as they used to for heightened prices, even though they never were cheap or even price competitive to begin with or b) always were a marketing-first company which appealed to the then-younger generation of gamers which have just outgrown their marketing schemes so are now painting them for what they are. IMHO, @mononymous was quite right in saying:

On 3/6/2023 at 7:47 AM, mononymous said:

Once you start pursuing for better or endgame level of quality people quickly outgrow them and that is par for the course. Razer came into the market quite early so the same people who bought those early Diamondbacks in the mid 2000s would be comfortably in their 30s. No longer the same gullible kids who would gobble up the marketing speak.

 

Oh, I just thought of one more thing to add. I bought an Ironclad back in I guess it must've been 2011 or something thereabouts, that thing's just amazing. Granted, 50 USD (IIRC) is a lot of money for what is essentially a piece of laser-cut sandblasted aluminum with rubber backing, but still. Being what it is, I also don't see it dying anytime soon, which is great because I love the cold surface, especially on hot summer days. When it get's grimy (which it will sooner or later, no matter how often you're washing your hands), I just chuck it in the dishwasher and it comes out just like new.

[Tristerin]

Ive been around since Razer hit the scene with PC peripherals.  They went way down hill since then.  

 

Kind of like a great brand being sold to Wal-Mart now being made as cheaply as possible.  It looks great, performs just like the cheap shit, and you get worse customer support imho than if you were to buy cheap off Amazon or Newegg. 

 

 

[mononymous]

Although you still got to hand it to Razer for popularizing the mechanical keyboard market. It was a just a different time back then. As ecommerce weren't as popular ubiquitous and the hobbyist makers weren't in the limelight yet. Sure the tech for cherry switches were already there but you couldn't go to a big box store and buy a mechanical keyboard. @MonsterkaterI too had an OG Blackwidow Ultimate as well as their Tiamat 7.1. 

 

I really liked the idea of surround sound but HRTFs/binaural for headphones weren't mainstream yet (ie. expensive). Read from reviews that the Astro surround sound headphones were good but those weren't available in my region. So I had the ones from Sharkoon instead. In hindsight the Tiamat was a lateral upgrade. Positional audio was meh and audio quality was unacceptable. In the end I saved up and got home theater speakers instead. 

 

At this current rate the brand might as well die within the next 5 or 10 years unless there is a change in hands and I won't bat an eyelid. Like it did with beats, Creative, X-mini, EVGA and many other companies like it. 

 

[littleneutrino]

I have stated for years that Razer does not generally make a "bad" product. They arent the best in regards to build quality, and their QA has gotten better over the years, but they charge a large premium for their products when you can buy in some cases a much better product for half the price elsewhere.

 

However, on the other side of the coin. Razer Synapse is a plague.

[XNOR]

On 3/8/2023 at 3:20 PM, littleneutrino said:

I have stated for years that Razer does not generally make a "bad" product. They arent the best in regards to build quality, and their QA has gotten better over the years, but they charge a large premium for their products when you can buy in some cases a much better product for half the price elsewhere.

 

However, on the other side of the coin. Razer Synapse is a plague.

I feel this is a much more nuanced and sensible answer than a lot in this thread. Saying Razer products are garbage is ridiculous. Saying they're not the best bang for the buck or not the absolute best on the market seems fair, though that obviously also depends on the price and product.

 

I currently have a Razer mouse and a Logitech mouse on the desk, and both have their pros and cons. They're not worlds apart.

[v0id]

I've had a Razer Blade 2020 for three years now, and my only complaint has been the battery, lasts around ~2 hours even when it was brand new but it was advertised as ~6 hours. But other than that it's been solid, plays my games and is still snappy as fuck to this day. No complaints. And I enjoy the aesthetic of green and black honestly. Did I overpay? Probably. But the feel and style is what I was after.

 

Synapse on the other hand is utter trash.

[aren332]

On 2/21/2023 at 5:38 PM, nevets13 said:

why dose it seam like the vase majority of people on this forum hate razer, i get that they aren't the best of the best but they are a pretty decent entry lvl gaming brand. and I've had nothing but good times with them except for there smart watch

idk man but my friend has the razer viper ultimate and i have the model d wireless i certainly like my mouse more than the viper ultimate, while being almost twice as cheap

[SimplyChunk]

I have a colleague at work that's all in on Razer.  So much so he was invited to the Razer store opening and has a wrist band saying he was the 5th customer in the store.  I'm more of a Logitech guy, especially with meeses.  He totally agreed with my view on the software being...not the best. Shall we say.  He did make a case for Synapse 3.0 (I think I used 2.0 when i had my black widow chroma).  He also told me he still uses Synapse 2.0 for a cup holder? Something like that.  It was a gift to him from a Razer employee.  When i told him my 30 quid G305 could actually store one profile on to the device and never have to talk to GHUB again he kinda conceded that that was a good feature 

 

 

Edit: Razer store in London

[vetali]

I am mostly a Logitech fan for peripherals due to their software being slightly better than synapse. It used to be much superior but G Hub is a flaming turd compared to the old gaming software.

 

I like Razer laptops though. Simple, sleek designs compared to other gaming laptops. Zero bloatware other than synapse. Hefty premium, but those are worth it to me.... cannot stand OEM bloatware on expensive hardware like that.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, vetali said:

I am mostly a Logitech fan for peripherals due to their software being slightly better than synapse. It used to be much superior but G Hub is a flaming turd compared to the old gaming software.

 

I like Razer laptops though. Simple, sleek designs compared to other gaming laptops. Zero bloatware other than synapse. Hefty premium, but those are worth it to me.... cannot stand OEM bloatware on expensive hardware like that.

Oh they look great, theyre well appointed, and they’re the right price.  They just have durability issues.

[vetali]

12 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Oh they look great, theyre well appointed, and they’re the right price.  They just have durability issues.

I disagree. I used my 13 inch stealth in the shop for 4 years where it was exposed to low temperatures, high humidity, lots of dust, and oils. It did fine until I spiked it on concrete due to events unrelated to the laptop itself. Needed one battery replacement in those 4 years which was easy to perform.

[Bombastinator]

11 minutes ago, vetali said:

I disagree. I used my 13 inch stealth in the shop for 4 years where it was exposed to low temperatures, high humidity, lots of dust, and oils. It did fine until I spiked it on concrete due to events unrelated to the laptop itself. Needed one battery replacement in those 4 years which was easy to perform.

It’s random.  Sometimes they do well.  I’ve heard stories of people loving them and coming to hate them though.  It’s apparently got decent dust control.  You left it on a desk though mostly.  They’re not bad machines for what they are, just a bit fragile for business or college use.  If you like numbers and upgrade frequently they’re pretty good.  

[vetali]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

You left it on a desk though mostly.

No, it was in engine bays or on my toolbox with service info if not getting in and out of cars to scan them.

[Bombastinator]

5 hours ago, vetali said:

No, it was in engine bays or on my toolbox with service info if not getting in and out of cars to scan them.

Like I said, it’s random.  The things are famous for not holding up to industrial use reliably.  It’s why folks pay $70 for screwdrivers.  I think of it as a sort of a harbor freight gaming computer.  Some Harbor freight things last.  Some don’t.  I buy some stuff at harbor freight.  They’re not bad for air tools depending on the tool for example.  Don’t buy a finger sander there though.  At least not if you use it regularly.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Bombastinator

[IRMacGuyver]

On 3/12/2023 at 12:04 AM, vetali said:

No, it was in engine bays or on my toolbox with service info if not getting in and out of cars to scan them.

That's not really what most people would consider industrial use.  When they say industrial they mean places where sawdust or machine fluid is in the air and all over everything.  Also lots of vibration from large machinery.  Constant vibration can really wreak havoc on computers..  A car shop is clean relatively speaking.