Let's talk about Sekiro

[Stahlmann]

So i've played close to 1000 hours across DS1/2/3 and Elden Ring. After seeing "Sekiro: Shadows die twice" on sale i went ahead and bought it since so many people claim it's the best Souls-like game out there. And since i have quite a bit experience with these kind of games i knew what to expect in terms if difficulty an learning curve. In each of the games it took a few hours until it finally "clicked" and i got the mechanics down. At some point in these games i have enough confidence in my abilities as a player that the game really kicks off and becomes fun to play.

 

So far i'm around 10 hours in and i still find this game extremely unforgiving. Every damn mini boss (basically the enemies with 2 or more health bars) takes me dozens of tries and i can't seem to find that point where i get the mechanics down to a point where i generally know what i'm doing. For example i know and understand how deflection works, but to me it still feels like a gamble every time i do it (even though afaik it's the main thing you're supposed to do while fighting).

 

So in my opinion so far Sekiro seems like it has an insanely high barrier of entry - even for a Souls-like.

What's your opinion about that in particular and how long did it take you to get to this point where you approached the enemies with confidence?

[Morrie Sells Wigs]

7 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

So i've played close to 1000 hours across DS1/2/3 and Elden Ring. After seeing "Sekiro: Shadows die twice" on sale i went ahead and bought it since so many people claim it's the best Souls-like game out there. And since i have quite a bit experience with these kind of games i knew what to expect in terms if difficulty an learning curve. In each of the games it took a few hours until it finally "clicked" and i got the mechanics down. At some point in these games i have enough confidence in my abilities as a player that the game really kicks off and becomes fun to play.

 

So far i'm around 10 hours in and i still find this game extremely unforgiving. Every damn mini boss (basically the enemies with 2 or more health bars) takes me dozens of tries and i can't seem to find that point where i get the mechanics down to a point where i generally know what i'm doing. For example i know and understand how deflection works, but to me it still feels like a gamble every time i do it (even though afaik it's the main thing you're supposed to do while fighting).

 

So in my opinion so far Sekiro seems like it has an insanely high barrier of entry - even for a Souls-like.

What's your opinion about that in particular and how long did it take you to get to this point where you approached the enemies with confidence?

It's generally considered to be the most difficult and unforgiving of all the souls games.

 

The fact is it's brutally hard and it's meant to be.

[rikitikitavi]

Played DS1 and DS2, never finished either of them - usually never had time, and/or windows would crash after an update (unrelated, always played on a mac) and I would not fix it right away, and/or another game would catch my interest, etc. Never got around to play DS3 and Bloodborne.

 

Sekiro is the first and only souls-like game that kept me glued to the screen till the end. Loved the faster pace of parry/dodge/stamina mechanics and the absence of stats, which focused way more on the skill and implementation of new techniques. Also... I had a lot of time during the pandemic to play games, so maybe that was a big factor lol

 

Elden Ring... installed last week... haven't ran it yet to do any comparison.

[Guest]

Just watched a video about dark souls ...

 

Sekiro apparently has a very specific combat system that is not as similar as dark souls so you need to find someone that understands it supposedly to tell you how it works. 

 

Or find a YouTube video on it. 

[Stahlmann]

3 hours ago, fpo said:

Just watched a video about dark souls ...

 

Sekiro apparently has a very specific combat system that is not as similar as dark souls so you need to find someone that understands it supposedly to tell you how it works. 

 

Or find a YouTube video on it. 

I'm not really looking for tutorials. I'm pretty much just interested if other people have a similar struggle to get used to the combat.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

I'm not really looking for tutorials. I'm pretty much just interested if other people have a similar struggle to get used to the combat.

I have been informed that googling the game is part of the game

[Stahlmann]

36 minutes ago, fpo said:

I have been informed that googling the game is part of the game

The way i like to play Souls games is typically one blind playthrough without google and then using google for consecutive playthroughs.

[tikker]

Yeah Sekiro is pretty brutal and as said above is considered the hardest one to get into. I've simultaneously heard it praised for being the best to speedrun, for example, for that same reason, as once you get it down it's pretty fun. I have 44 hours in it having done most of the game and I can say it gets easier once parries start to click. I don't remember how long it took me to get comfy, but I'd say probably the 10 or 20 hour mark was where I started to get in the rythm (though I by no means am great at them). Input lag can also mess you up. On my old Samsung TV I can tell I'm worse, even on game mode, compared to my (also old) Asus monitor.

23 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

So far i'm around 10 hours in and i still find this game extremely unforgiving. Every damn mini boss (basically the enemies with 2 or more health bars) takes me dozens of tries and i can't seem to find that point where i get the mechanics down to a point where i generally know what i'm doing. For example i know and understand how deflection works, but to me it still feels like a gamble every time i do it (even though afaik it's the main thing you're supposed to do while fighting).

One important aspect of the deflect is that the window shrinks if you keep tapping or spamming deflect continuously in the hope it'll land, or if you hold block and try to parry immediately after. After a quick refresher google, the parry window is 0.5 seconds, or 30 frames at 60 FPS, that can shrink to just 7 frames when e.g. spamming. A successful parry resets the window though, so the quick parries needed for certain enemies don't count as spam.

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, tikker said:

Yeah Sekiro is pretty brutal and as said above is considered the hardest one to get into. I've simultaneously heard it praised for being the best to speedrun, 

It's the first game I've seen a video about "can I speed run ____ and get a steam refund?" 

[SteveGrabowski0]

I gave it up on my first attempt after 10 hours or so, as you can get a ways into the game with just stealth and playing it like a Souls game without mastering the deflections and parries and then all of a sudden the game becomes impossible if you haven't once you fight Genichiro. Came back a couple of years later and played through the game making sure to get the deflection and parry timing down and had a blast, though the final boss is still an absolute nightmare. You just have to force yourself to get good at deflections in the early game instead of relying too much on stealth or you're going to have a bad time with the game.

[rikitikitavi]

18 hours ago, fpo said:

I have been informed that googling the game is part of the game

Probably by the same people who always buy a game and the strategy guide together...

[seth2012]

I could not stand Souls games and their mechanics so I stayed away from Sekiro for a long time cause I thought it was a Dark Souls with a Shinobi for a change... I used to love Tenchu games and when I learnt Sekiro was inspired by them also made me play it and its stealth mechanics were great for me. Also parrying felt flowed better with me than rolling around in Souls games.

 

But coming from Souls games Sekiro may feel difficult and parry mechanics may feel hard you just need to keep trying. There have been bosses I died over 30 times to before I beat them and for me bosses with fast but kind of a rhythymic attack patterns felt easier for me than those with slow attacks that are obvious but do not have a rhythym to them. You need to focus on posture instead of vitality and on parrying instead of dodging when playing Sekiro.

[Stahlmann]

It finally sparked. Fired up the game 2 weeks ago and couldn't stop playing for whatever reason.

 

And i agree, once you get used to it's combat it's extremely satisfying. Relying on parrying instead if i-frames and needing to react differently to different attacks felt really refreshing. Still, like in most Souls games there are a few enemies that brought me close to rage quitting (looking at these fucking snake-eye-women and the headless) but overall i think it's probably the most satisfying combat gameplay i've ever experienced.

 

Unfortunately the first ending i got was the bad "Shura" ending that skips a huge part of the game. So i'm currently in my 2nd playthrough to get one of the good endings. And boy, this game is so much fun once you get the mechanics down.

 

There is just one grudge i have with the game design:

Spoiler

Having enemies that are basically close to impossible without using finite consumable items. Most apparition-type enemies are basically immune to damage unless you use divine confetti, which is pretty rare from my experience. If you die 3 or 4 times to one of them and use 1 or 2 items each try, you just run out and have to move on with the game without killing these bosses.

 

[NekoBubbles]

On 1/2/2023 at 8:08 AM, Stahlmann said:

So i've played close to 1000 hours across DS1/2/3 and Elden Ring. After seeing "Sekiro: Shadows die twice" on sale i went ahead and bought it since so many people claim it's the best Souls-like game out there. And since i have quite a bit experience with these kind of games i knew what to expect in terms if difficulty an learning curve. In each of the games it took a few hours until it finally "clicked" and i got the mechanics down. At some point in these games i have enough confidence in my abilities as a player that the game really kicks off and becomes fun to play.

 

So far i'm around 10 hours in and i still find this game extremely unforgiving. Every damn mini boss (basically the enemies with 2 or more health bars) takes me dozens of tries and i can't seem to find that point where i get the mechanics down to a point where i generally know what i'm doing. For example i know and understand how deflection works, but to me it still feels like a gamble every time i do it (even though afaik it's the main thing you're supposed to do while fighting).

 

So in my opinion so far Sekiro seems like it has an insanely high barrier of entry - even for a Souls-like.

What's your opinion about that in particular and how long did it take you to get to this point where you approached the enemies with confidence?

Great game to learn how to become a parry master  Good luck if you pursue the hidden like true ending. (Dwagon's homecoming...) This one takes like a lot of trial and error... 

 

Its mostly learning the "songs" within the game the entire fighting system is leaning what you can parry and what you HAVE to dodge. 

The game is also an interesting take on a rather major infections, bacteria and viruses concept that most people don't grasp till you have it kinda explained and then it makes it a little scary in terms of lore. The MC is basically a "carrier": essentially a host of the disease. I won't say much more about the disease. But the concept is being a "carrier" a rather scary concept of being immune to a disease oneself but you can also easily spread it to others.  Creating a very scary atmosphere, unknowningly killing others for just being near you, a concept that would be cool in more games. Would make for a very intense trauma related plot line IMO. 

[F.E.A.R.]

Sekiro is its own genre. The only "souls" like thing is the difficulty. Sekiro has the best combat system in the history of gaming. It forces you to deflect (parry) attacks from small lizards to literal Dragons, has incredible stealth mechanics, and a combination of arts and items to use. People just want to dodge and kite an NPC, while Sekiro forces you to fight, but 1 vs 1, the game doesn't encourage you to hack and slash through enemies. I've been playing the game since 2020 up until 2022 "file shared", then I bought it on Steam and replayed it with all achievements gathered. It's one of the best games in the history of gaming, and I hope Fromsoftware uses the mechanics from Sekiro for a new game in the future. It's also the only Fromsoftware game to be properly ported on PC because the publisher is Activision and not have those console controls when you start up on PC.

 

[SteveGrabowski0]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:46 AM, F.E.A.R. said:

Sekiro is its own genre. The only "souls" like thing is the difficulty. Sekiro has the best combat system in the history of gaming. It forces you to deflect (parry) attacks from small lizards to literal Dragons, has incredible stealth mechanics, and a combination of arts and items to use. People just want to dodge and kite an NPC, while Sekiro forces you to fight, but 1 vs 1, the game doesn't encourage you to hack and slash through enemies. I've been playing the game since 2020 up until 2022 "file shared", then I bought it on Steam and replayed it with all achievements gathered. It's one of the best games in the history of gaming, and I hope Fromsoftware uses the mechanics from Sekiro for a new game in the future. It's also the only Fromsoftware game to be properly ported on PC because the publisher is Activision and not have those console controls when you start up on PC.

 

Only game I have ever played that had anywhere near as cool a combat system was Sifu. I have been a Souls fan for years but Sekiro was such a refreshing and wholly different kind of game. And yeah the port is great. I remember having no trouble hitting 60 fps at 1080p even using a GTX 970 and Xeon E3-1231v3 from 2014. Might have to give it a second playthrough now that I can likely run it 4k with a 6700 XT.