What computer is satisfactory for programming?

[TheInternet]

I put this here instead of "builds" because it's a generalized question and I'd like to see what different people need to program.

 

I personally would be setting up 10+ computers in a production environment running some sort of linux. I just don't know how low I can go without going too low.

 

[BiotechBen]

4 minutes ago, TheInternet said:

I put this here instead of "builds" because it's a generalized question and I'd like to see what different people need to program.

 

I personally would be setting up 10+ computers in a production environment running some sort of linux. I just don't know how low I can go without going too low.

 

Really depends on what you are going to be coding, how much is going to be compiled, and how fast you want it to compile. 

[TheInternet]

6 minutes ago, BiotechBen said:

Really depends on what you are going to be coding, how much is going to be compiled, and how fast you want it to compile. 

Ok noted. The thing is there's no to - from with compiling that I can find and I'll probably be using Rust as it seems to be not terrible. I'll be making apps and web stuff.

[BiotechBen]

4 minutes ago, TheInternet said:

Ok noted. The thing is there's no to - from with compiling that I can find and I'll probably be using Rust as it seems to be not terrible. I'll be making apps and web stuff.

For "apps and web stuff" could you elaborate?

I only ask that because if you are doing like learning to code, you could do most of it on something as simple as a Ras pi 0-4, whereas if you are doing more like dev-type stuff it's gonna require something more robust.

[DreamCat04]

51 minutes ago, TheInternet said:

I put this here instead of "builds" because it's a generalized question and I'd like to see what different people need to program.

 

I personally would be setting up 10+ computers in a production environment running some sort of linux. I just don't know how low I can go without going too low.

 

I personnally prefer quick compiling times. Also it should feel snappy overall, so an I7 is almost a must for me, even if a 13600(K) would do it too. 

[TheInternet]

41 minutes ago, BiotechBen said:

For "apps and web stuff" could you elaborate?

I only ask that because if you are doing like learning to code, you could do most of it on something as simple as a Ras pi 0-4, whereas if you are doing more like dev-type stuff it's gonna require something more robust.

I'm not learning to code. I started a company in India and I have no idea what is required for someone to program and compile on. I just don't know. I don't think a Raspberry pi will cut it. The least I want to give these guys is 2, 24" screens and a computer that won't flip out when they try to run something. From messing around with javascript I remember that my errors would like just waste my laptop.

 

Someone here suggeted I spend like 1k$ on a laptop per person and I'm like ok well you could spend less than that and have more real estate with larger monitors which I'm sure would help and a better processor.

Edited November 10, 2022 by TheInternet
Add things

[BiotechBen]

55 minutes ago, TheInternet said:

I'm not learning to code. I started a company in India and I have no idea what is required for someone to program and compile on. I just don't know. I don't think a Raspberry pi will cut it. The least I want to give these guys is 2, 24" screens and a computer that won't flip out when they try to run something. From messing around with javascript I remember that my errors would like just waste my laptop.

 

Someone here suggeted I spend like 1k$ on a laptop per person and I'm like ok well you could spend less than that and have more real estate with larger monitors which I'm sure would help and a better processor.

Perfect, that's exactly the info I was trying to probe for. 

The one issue with India is that prices are very unreliable day-to-day, and will change based on location and tracking data. 

 

If your used market prices are good:

I'd suggest something with at least 4c/8t and at least Skylake or newer. 

 

If going for new:

AMD 5600 or better

Intel 12400 or better

 

Lots of storage will be a priority if you don't already have a NAS, and you will want fast local storage and at least 32gb of reliable RAM.

[TheInternet]

2 minutes ago, BiotechBen said:

Perfect, that's exactly the info I was trying to probe for. 

The one issue with India is that prices are very unreliable day-to-day, and will change based on location and tracking data. 

 

If your used market prices are good:

I'd suggest something with at least 4c/8t and at least Skylake or newer. 

 

If going for new:

AMD 5600 or better

Intel 12400 or better

 

Lots of storage will be a priority if you don't already have a NAS, and you will want fast local storage and at least 32gb of reliable RAM.

The market prices aren't terrible and there is used stuff. I'd definitely slap together s server so that's fine.

 

That's funny because I was looking at the 5600 and 12400. Good times. I was thinking I was on point but wanted to make sure. There isn't much information about what effects compiling and how long things take to compile. You really have to mess around on Google searching for a week just to figure something out while I'm waiting to talk to real people so I can ask all my dumb questions. Thanks though.

[BiotechBen]

26 minutes ago, TheInternet said:

The market prices aren't terrible and there is used stuff. I'd definitely slap together s server so that's fine.

 

That's funny because I was looking at the 5600 and 12400. Good times. I was thinking I was on point but wanted to make sure. There isn't much information about what effects compiling and how long things take to compile. You really have to mess around on Google searching for a week just to figure something out while I'm waiting to talk to real people so I can ask all my dumb questions. Thanks though.

No sweat, compile is harder to gauge because it isn't a "gaming" task that gets benchmarked frequently enough. Compile scales well with threads but not infinitely. 

 

If you were doing huge datasets and compiles, I'd steer more towards something like 5800X3D or 12700K

[TheInternet]

37 minutes ago, BiotechBen said:

No sweat, compile is harder to gauge because it isn't a "gaming" task that gets benchmarked frequently enough. Compile scales well with threads but not infinitely. 

 

If you were doing huge datasets and compiles, I'd steer more towards something like 5800X3D or 12700K

The 3D seems nice.

[WWicket]

5 hours ago, TheInternet said:

 I'll be making apps and web stuff.

Stuff and things, eh. That really gives so much more info. to know what kind of hardware would be appropriate. 
 

5 hours ago, TheInternet said:

10+ computers in a production environment running some sort of linux

 

5 hours ago, TheInternet said:

I'll probably be using Rust as it seems to be not terrible

10 devs. and no devops or sysops to be seen. No idea what sort of stacks you are going to be working in. No idea what your pipeline looks like. Rust because why not. 

 

4 hours ago, TheInternet said:

The least I want to give these guys is 2, 24" screens and a computer that won't flip out when they try to run something

Something - again with such specific workloads. And 2 24" screens ~ cause the size impacts the compute load ~ so lets assume you mean 2*1080p... like you couldn't find a modern desktop cpu+integrated graphics that couldn't handle that if all they are going to be doing is using vscode. 

Calling sus on this op. GLHF. 

[BiotechBen]

42 minutes ago, WWicket said:

Stuff and things, eh. That really gives so much more info. to know what kind of hardware would be appropriate. 
 

10 devs. and no devops or sysops to be seen. No idea what sort of stacks you are going to be working in. No idea what your pipeline looks like. Rust because why not. 

 

 

Too bad. It sounds like you need to. 
 

 

Something - again with such specific workloads. And 2 24" screens ~ cause the size impacts the compute load ~ so lets assume you mean 2*1080p... like you couldn't find a modern desktop cpu+integrated graphics that couldn't handle that if all they are going to be doing is using vscode. 

Calling sus on this op. GLHF. 

If you don't have something productive to say, simply don't reply. All you do by berating and belittling someone because they aren't an expert is make yourself look like an ass. 

 

It seems fairly clearly that OP is not on the Dev team, and instead appears to be in entrepreneurial field. 

[TheInternet]

58 minutes ago, WWicket said:

Stuff and things, eh. That really gives so much more info. to know what kind of hardware would be appropriate. 
 

10 devs. and no devops or sysops to be seen. No idea what sort of stacks you are going to be working in. No idea what your pipeline looks like. Rust because why not. 

 

 

Too bad. It sounds like you need to. 
 

 

Something - again with such specific workloads. And 2 24" screens ~ cause the size impacts the compute load ~ so lets assume you mean 2*1080p... like you couldn't find a modern desktop cpu+integrated graphics that couldn't handle that if all they are going to be doing is using vscode. 

Calling sus on this op. GLHF. 

If you don't know anything about programming it's not like people are just walking around trying to help you. They're not. I have no idea what I need. I just know what I want to do. I just started a company. I'm not going to go around telling everyone what I'll be doing. So yeah Rust because with some modest research anyone could tell you that you can't make an app with html and css. I figured I need about 10 people, not 50. I have to wait to talk to people that know what I don't. When was the last time you tried to do something you don't know and had to wait on people that could tell you what you don't know.

 

Continue to call sus. I'm seeking information. If you have none keep calling sus.

[WWicket]

1 hour ago, TheInternet said:

So yeah Rust because with some modest research anyone could tell you that you can't make an app with html and css... When was the last time you tried to do something you don't know and had to wait on people that could tell you what you don't know.
... I'm seeking information. 

Okay - here is information. Rust is hard. Rust has an extremely small marketshare. The combination means (good) Rust developers are relatively highly-paid and hard to find. Rust is great, but Rust isn't a language you use without knowing why you are using it. 

 

1 hour ago, BiotechBen said:

 All you do by berating and belittling someone because they aren't an expert

 

I have no issue with people not being experts. This is effectively: 'I am starting a 3PL business. We are going to be moving some things, some amount of distance, across some kind of terrain. Not sure yet or won't tell you. But I am planning on buying 50 vehicles and am wondering what kind I should get. I like hydrogen powered thing. I'm not really that up-to-speed on supply chain management or transport.'

[TheInternet]

2 hours ago, WWicket said:

Okay - here is information. Rust is hard. Rust has an extremely small marketshare. The combination means (good) Rust developers are relatively highly-paid and hard to find. Rust is great, but Rust isn't a language you use without knowing why you are using it. 

 

I have no issue with people not being experts. This is effectively: 'I am starting a 3PL business. We are going to be moving some things, some amount of distance, across some kind of terrain. Not sure yet or won't tell you. But I am planning on buying 50 vehicles and am wondering what kind I should get. I like hydrogen powered thing. I'm not really that up-to-speed on supply chain management or transport.'

It's India dude. India. Are you here?

[TheInternet]

1 hour ago, Sakuriru said:

Give all developers laptops and let them work from home.

That's not going to happen my dude. Here have a laptop. Then it's gone and so is your IP. 

[TheInternet]

2 hours ago, WWicket said:

Okay - here is information. Rust is hard. Rust has an extremely small marketshare. The combination means (good) Rust developers are relatively highly-paid and hard to find. Rust is great, but Rust isn't a language you use without knowing why you are using it. 

 

I have no issue with people not being experts. This is effectively: 'I am starting a 3PL business. We are going to be moving some things, some amount of distance, across some kind of terrain. Not sure yet or won't tell you. But I am planning on buying 50 vehicles and am wondering what kind I should get. I like hydrogen powered thing. I'm not really that up-to-speed on supply chain management or transport.'

You act like I'm going to Mars. It's seriously not that complicated. The government is the most complicated part of this entire process. Again. Come to India and do that and you'll see. It's not that complicated. You overcomplicate it to make a point and it's not working. I'm not buying 50 vehicles and not knowing about the supply chain. I understand the analogy but dude it's not near anything close to what's going on here. You just have no idea what you're getting into talking down to me. You and I may not know each other but I really don't care about your point. I don't. It doesn't matter.

 

Remember how suss it all is? Really suss dog.

[TheInternet]

57 minutes ago, Sakuriru said:

What? You know to get hired they collect a bunch of information about you.

I'm not getting hired. I'm the one doing the hiring.

[shadow_ray]

5 hours ago, TheInternet said:

That's not going to happen my dude. Here have a laptop. Then it's gone and so is your IP. 

I guess cloud storage and thumb drives don't exist in India.  /s

You should disable usb and network connectivity on those machines as well.

 

I can't tell if it's a fake question or not but I hope you are just sh¡tposting. Starting  a company in an industry you know little about.. well.. it's a good recipe for disaster (unless you find a competent person who can lead your company for you)

[TheInternet]

8 hours ago, shadow_ray said:

I guess cloud storage and thumb drives don't exist in India.  /s

You should disable usb and network connectivity on those machines as well.

 

I can't tell if it's a fake question or not but I hope you are just sh¡tposting. Starting  a company in an industry you know little about.. well.. it's a good recipe for disaster (unless you find a competent person who can lead your company for you)

You can find someone that knows more than you and just pay that person. I don't know how to program. So I'll pay someone to do that. I'm not sh17posting. It's a valid question. The USB and network connection is a good thing. I was wondering about how to do that and well there you go.

[Franck]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:15 AM, TheInternet said:

If you don't know anything about programming it's not like people are just walking around trying to help you. They're not. I have no idea what I need. I just know what I want to do. I just started a company. I'm not going to go around telling everyone what I'll be doing. So yeah Rust because with some modest research anyone could tell you that you can't make an app with html and css. I figured I need about 10 people, not 50. I have to wait to talk to people that know what I don't. When was the last time you tried to do something you don't know and had to wait on people that could tell you what you don't know.

 

Continue to call sus. I'm seeking information. If you have none keep calling sus.

Knowing nothing you should honestly just check for job offers in your region for programming job. Check the most demands and offers and you will know your demographic. Then filter the languages by your needs and you will know what you want to start with. So dont assume Rust from your own research as it's not that common everywhere. If it would be remote work it would be an issue but for in office wok you need locals.

 

For computer spec well i have been in the business for nearly 30 years and unless you are doing data scientist stuff you do not need insane spec. FYI i compile full custom 3d CAD software with over 4 gb of code in about 25 seconds on a third gen Intel (I3-3250). The people really needing top specs for programming are extremely niche and very small subset of people. 

[wasab]

If you optimize your make file to only recompiled source file that are actually modified, then compile time is really none issue when doing debugging. Some debug tools allows hot reload which make compilation speed even more trivial. Instead, I would look at the system requirements for my debugger tool and IDE instead. android studio and  all IDE made by jetbrain for example eat up tons of resources. If you are working on front end web related stuffs, pretty sure the programming language is interpreted. In such cases, compilation is not even a factor. 

 

On 11/10/2022 at 3:00 AM, TheInternet said:

I'm not learning to code. I started a company in India and I have no idea what is required for someone to program and compile on. I just don't know. I don't think a Raspberry pi will cut it. The least I want to give these guys is 2, 24" screens and a computer that won't flip out when they try to run something. From messing around with javascript I remember that my errors would like just waste my laptop.

 

Someone here suggeted I spend like 1k$ on a laptop per person and I'm like ok well you could spend less than that and have more real estate with larger monitors which I'm sure would help and a better processor.

if you have absolutely no idea then you go with whatever is suggested by the most senior developer on your staff team. Tools depend on your bussiness needs first and then what your developers are most comfortable with. 

[Kopaka]

You may be able to do some stuff in rust, but if you're making apps and websites your developers will need to know a few others langauges as well. I'd start by hiring some kind of CTO and have him help deciding these things, including what machines to buy. But to answer your question, from working on these things myself the bottleneck I run in to most often is memory, so get 32gb if you can. They can be spendy though so if you get 16 at least make sure they're upgradable. For CPU fast cores is helpful for running various tools they'd need, so anything last couple generations. Amount of cores matter mostly when compiling which if you're doing things right you will be spending very little time doing, so it doesn't matter too much. Then you have to decide if you're getting machines with big screen and good keyboard or using external ones, I'd always suggest the latter for ergonomics. And two screens does help with productivity (laptop could be the second).

[Dat Guy]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:00 AM, TheInternet said:

I personally would be setting up 10+ computers in a production environment running some sort of linux. I

 

Why, of all the choices you have, would you choose Linux?!

[wasab]

40 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

 

Why, of all the choices you have, would you choose Linux?!

What would you suggest otherwise?