13600k or 12700k gaming

[Ebony Falcon]

Do u think 8 p cores will age better than 6 p core with more e cores ? 
 

roughly same price with board 

[Bombastinator]

6 faster pcores will give better fps now. Currently more than 6 pcores isn’t necessary. There is a chance they may produce more problems later than 8 pcores. So no idea.  My understanding is that unless pcores or games radically change in the way they work ecores will never be useful for RT stuff which includes gaming.  I went 12700 myself. I did so because I’d heard about some b660 boards being able to OC non k chips but my data about which ones would do it was bad, so I wound up with a board that wouldn’t.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

24 minutes ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Do u think 8 p cores will age better than 6 p core with more e cores ? 
 

roughly same price with board 

13600k

 

Alder lake is obsolete now. Even if the 13600k was like $50 more expensive I'd still get the 13600k.

[Ebony Falcon]

9 minutes ago, CHICKSLAYA said:

13600k

 

Alder lake is obsolete now. Even if the 13600k was like $50 more expensive I'd still get the 13600k.

Has same ipc and clock speed as the 13600k so it’s not 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

3 minutes ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Has same ipc and clock speed as the 13600k so it’s not 

No?? The 13600k clock speed is higher and it has other improvements as well. The 13600k is literally an improved 12700k essentially. They all went up a sku. The 13700k is like a 12900k. 

 

All your losing is the 2 p cores with the 13600k.

 

Getting a 12700k over a 13600k for the same price would be moronic. More cores, more cache, higher clock speed, better OC ability, DRASTICALLY better memory controller (DDR5 5600 vs 4800), I could go on and on, you are just plain wrong.

 

12700k: 

 

Total Cores: 12

# of Performance-cores 8

# of Efficient-cores: 4

Total Threads: 20

Max Turbo Frequency : 5.00 GHz

Cache 

25 MB Intel® Smart Cache

Total L2 Cache

12 MB

 

13600k: 

Total Cores: 14

# of Performance-cores: 6

# of Efficient-cores: 8

Total Threads: 20

Max Turbo Frequency: 5.10 GHz

Cache 

24 MB Intel® Smart Cache

Total L2 Cache

20 MB

 

 

[Ebony Falcon]

9 minutes ago, CHICKSLAYA said:

No?? The 13600k clock speed is higher and it has other improvements as well. The 13600k is literally an improved 12700k essentially. They all went up a sku. The 13700k is like a 12900k. 

 

All your losing is the 2 p cores with the 13600k.

 

Getting a 12700k over a 13600k for the same price would be moronic. More cores, more cache, higher clock speed, better OC ability, DRASTICALLY better memory controller (DDR5 5600 vs 4800), I could go on and on, you are just plain wrong.

 

12700k: 

 

Total Cores: 12

# of Performance-cores 8

# of Efficient-cores: 4

Total Threads: 20

Max Turbo Frequency : 5.00 GHz

Cache 

25 MB Intel® Smart Cache

Total L2 Cache

12 MB

 

13600k: 

Total Cores: 14

# of Performance-cores: 6

# of Efficient-cores: 8

Total Threads: 20

Max Turbo Frequency: 5.10 GHz

Cache 

24 MB Intel® Smart Cache

Total L2 Cache

20 MB

 

 

Ok but e cores don’t effect gaming and it’s only 100 mhz clock speed so wouldn’t the 12700k be better in the long run ? 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

6 minutes ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Ok but e cores don’t effect gaming and it’s only 100 mhz clock speed so wouldn’t the 12700k be better in the long run ? 

Nope, I can't make that any more crystal clear

[Mister Woof]

13th gen has more cache as well. You can't overclock a 12th gen to get more cache. Personally, I could not go back to 6 cores coming from a 10 "P" core chip, despite the 13600K being a really good value performer. 

 

I went with the 13700KF because it has 8 full P cores, more cache, and because of vanity.

 

It's also much like getting last year's 12900KS for less money - and more cache.

[Bombastinator]

53 minutes ago, CHICKSLAYA said:

No?? The 13600k clock speed is higher and it has other improvements as well. The 13600k is literally an improved 12700k essentially. They all went up a sku. The 13700k is like a 12900k. 

 

All your losing is the 2 p cores with the 13600k.

 

Getting a 12700k over a 13600k for the same price would be moronic. More cores, more cache, higher clock speed, better OC ability, DRASTICALLY better memory controller (DDR5 5600 vs 4800), I could go on and on, you are just plain wrong.

 

12700k: 

 

Total Cores: 12

# of Performance-cores 8

# of Efficient-cores: 4

Total Threads: 20

Max Turbo Frequency : 5.00 GHz

Cache 

25 MB Intel® Smart Cache

Total L2 Cache

12 MB

 

13600k: 

Total Cores: 14

# of Performance-cores: 6

# of Efficient-cores: 8

Total Threads: 20

Max Turbo Frequency: 5.10 GHz

Cache 

24 MB Intel® Smart Cache

Total L2 Cache

20 MB

 

 

I thought there was basically no effective difference between a 12700k and a 12900k…. This is not correct?

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

I thought there was basically no effective difference between a 12700k and a 12900k…. This is not correct?

I was comparing the 13600k to the 12700k, those charts are straight from Intel's website.

 

It seems like you are talking about the 13700k compared to the 12900k. Even in that case, they are not identical either as 13th gen has higher clock speed, more cache, and a much better memory controller. 

 

Idk where this false narrative of "no effective difference" is coming from. Raptor lake is just straight up better

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, CHICKSLAYA said:

I was comparing the 13600k to the 12700k, those charts are straight from Intel's website.

 

It seems like you are talking about the 13700k compared to the 12900k. Even in that case, they are not identical either as 13th gen has higher clock speed, more cache, and a much better memory controller. 

 

Idk where this false narrative of "no effective difference" is coming from. Raptor lake is just straight up better

I was talking about the 12700k and the 12900k I understand the 12900ks was better than the 12900k though.  For gaming speed I get the impression that the differences are semi-irrelevant for gaming though because all of them are basically so fast that it just doesn’t matter much for gaming. 

[Mister Woof]

12 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I was talking about the 12700k and the 12900k I understand the 12900ks was better than the 12900k though.  For gaming speed I get the impression that the differences are semi-irrelevant for gaming though because all of them are basically so fast that it just doesn’t matter much for gaming. 

There's many factors that affect the overall outcome of gaming performance, but when isolating CPU, 13th gen is just better than 12th. 

 

12700k -> 12900K is not really that different, except at stock levels the 129 has more frequency. 

[evilmedic]

13600K is probably the way to go. The following review has plenty of benchmarks comparing 13600 vs the 12700.

Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU | TechPowerUp

 

The 13600 is clearly faster. 

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

There's many factors that affect the overall outcome of gaming performance, but when isolating CPU, 13th gen is just better than 12th. 

 

12700k -> 12900K is not really that different, except at stock levels the 129 has more frequency. 

Never disagreed with that for a second.  

[Bombastinator]

21 minutes ago, evilmedic said:

13600K is probably the way to go. The following review has plenty of benchmarks comparing 13600 vs the 12700.

Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU | TechPowerUp

 

The 13600 is clearly faster. 

It is currently.  The only question is will a game come out that absolutely needs more than 12 threads?  Hasn’t happened yet.  It’s really the only reason I know of to get an 8 core chip for gaming right now.  For me it was a tossup between a 12600k and a 12700.  Comes down to how far do you trust game devs to not pull something like that?  I personally trust them not at all, so I got an 8 core.  I thought I would be able to do a not-so-great OC on it anyway though, (there are some b660s with external clock chips) but that didn’t work out. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, CHICKSLAYA said:

Nope, I can't make that any more crystal clear

I’ll go with only maybe.  Not quite nope necessarily.  Very well could turn out to be nope though.

[evilmedic]

3 hours ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Ok but e cores don’t effect gaming and it’s only 100 mhz clock speed so wouldn’t the 12700k be better in the long run ? 

The game does not decided on whether its thread run's on a p-core or e-core. The O/S + the CPU decides it.

- A typical multi threaded game run's as fast as its slowest (bottlenecking) thread. The 13600 higher clock speed and instruction per clock gives advantage here.

- For a ideal synthetic multi threaded workloads, It seems like the 13600k also wins over the 12700k.

[Ebony Falcon]

11 minutes ago, evilmedic said:

The game does not decided on whether its thread run's on a p-core or e-core. The O/S + the CPU decides it.

- A typical multi threaded game run's as fast as its slowest (bottlenecking) thread. The 13600 higher clock speed and instruction per clock gives advantage here.

- For a ideal synthetic multi threaded workloads, It seems like the 13600k also wins over the 12700k.

Ok so what we are saying is games don’t need more than 6 performance votes for gaming, if all e cores were disables the 13600k would still beat the 12700k’s 8

[Mister Woof]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

It is currently.  The only question is will a game come out that absolutely needs more than 12 threads?  Hasn’t happened yet.  It’s really the only reason I know of to get an 8 core chip for gaming right now.  For me it was a tossup between a 12600k and a 12700.  Comes down to how far do you trust game devs to not pull something like that?  I personally trust them not at all, so I got an 8 core.  I thought I would be able to do a not-so-great OC on it anyway though, (there are some b660s with external clock chips) but that didn’t work out. 

What's interesting is looking at CPU reviews over time.

 

Let's take HUB's 5800x review:

 

https://www.techspot.com/review/2134-amd-ryzen-5800x/

 

 

Here, with the games tested, with a 3090, we see the 10900k is neck and neck with the Zen 3 chips. It even beats out the 5800x.

Games tested:

Far Cry New Dawn

R6S

Watch Dogs: Legion

F1 2020

HZD

BL3

Death Stranding

SotTR

Hitman 2

SW: Squadrons

Serious Sam 4

 

Then we fast forward to the 12th gen release.

 

https://www.techspot.com/review/2351-intel-core-i9-12900k/

 

 

Suddenly, 10900k falls 6% behind, significantly behind the 5900x and 5950x where previously it was dead even with Zen 3. What changed? Different GPU for one. But here's the games tested:

F1 2021

R6S

HZD

BL3

Watch Dogs: Legion

Guardians of the Galaxy

SotTR

Hitman 3

Age of Empires 4

CP2077

 

Then we have the new 13600K review by them:

https://www.techspot.com/review/2555-intel-core-i5-13600k/

 

 

Now, the Zen 3 chips are 13% faster than the 10900K. Partly, it is due to the increase to the 4090, which is a huge GPU limitation removed from previous tests, but also some of the games changed.

Games tested:

Factario

Watch Dogs Legion

Rainbow 6 Extraction

Hitman 3

Far Cry 6

F1 2022

Spider Man Remastered

SotTR

HZD

CP2077

Asseto Corsa

Riftbreaker

CS:GO

 

We find that from the period of time from 2020 to 2022, although with different GPUs, the newest games tested with a faster GPU (4090) resulted in less overall frames at 1080p for the 10900k (213 from the earliest review, to 182, down to 164). Is it the games getting more demanding? Is it the drivers? Is it the hardware changes? 

The 10600k and 10700k are in these reviews too:

1st review: 10600k 184fps; 10700k 200

2nd review: n/a

3rd review: 10600k 142 fps; 10700k 157 fps

 

TL;DR:

10900k lost about 23% absolute FPS from 1st to 3rd review

10700k lost about 27% absolute FPS from 1st to 3rd review

10600k lost about 30% absolute FPS from 1st to 3rd review

 

Could be a lot of factors, as for sure the testing controls were different for each test. But the difference is the 10 core lost less performance than the 8, and the 8 less than the 6. Could be cache. Could be frequency. Could be core count. Could be the games tested are just more CPU heavy. Could just be different drivers and GPUs or memory. But either way, there's clear scaling here between 3 CPUs in the same architecture. 

But this information could be helpful to see if buying an 8 p-core chip now is more worthwhile than the 6 core chip over time.

 

[evilmedic]

23 minutes ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Ok so what we are saying is games don’t need more than 6 performance votes for gaming,

My view is that the 13600K (6 p-Core / 8 e-Core) will be faster than a 12700k (8 p-Core / 4 e-Core)  12700K...  even for a hypothetically yet to be released future super multi threaded game. The 13600K will still maintain its advantage in frame rate over the 12700k even in the long term due to its - Better clock speed, higher IPC , and much larger L2 cache memory. 

 

[Ebony Falcon]

2 hours ago, evilmedic said:

My view is that the 13600K (6 p-Core / 8 e-Core) will be faster than a 12700k (8 p-Core / 4 e-Core)  12700K...  even for a hypothetically yet to be released future super multi threaded game. The 13600K will still maintain its advantage in frame rate over the 12700k even in the long term due to its - Better clock speed, higher IPC , and much larger L2 cache memory. 

 

Well that’s it then the 13600k it is, let’s hope

my h100i can cool it and my 3200cl16 ram doesn’t cripple it 

[Mister Woof]

12 minutes ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Well that’s it then the 13600k it is, let’s hope

my h100i can cool it and my 3200cl16 ram doesn’t cripple it 

I just received my 13700KF and hoping my h150i manages....mobo and ram don't come until saturday 

[Ebony Falcon]

2 minutes ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

I just received my 13700KF and hoping my h150i manages....mobo and ram don't come until saturday 

I’m sure 360 aio are fine but I think my 240 will be a flop 

[Mister Woof]

1 minute ago, Ebony Falcon said:

I’m sure 360 aio are fine but I think my 240 will be a flop 

Seems like they all ride off TJMAX so its probably all the same

[Ebony Falcon]

1 minute ago, Shimmy Gummi said:

Seems like they all ride off TJMAX so its probably all the same

I know amd said there cpus are ment to do that but intel never come out and said that so it makes me worry