intel's 12th gen i7 VS amd 6000 series

[mrchow19910319]

I am planning to get a laptop for programming, running VMs as well as duo booting linux and such. 

It will be used to play some triple A games as well.

 

My question is this, since I know nothing about CPUs, is AMD's true 8 core CPU gonna be faster than Intel's counter part? Since intel's i7 is 6+8 cores and only 6 of those cores are performance cores.

 

Which should I get? Also when it comes to virtural machines and such is Intel more compatible ?? Or AMD will do just fine. I've always heard people talk about doing more steps and tweaking more when it comes to AMD's system. 

What CPU do you guys recommend? I am planning to use this machine as long as possible. At least 6 years +. Which one should I get? Ryzen 7 6800H? Or Intel 12700H. 

 

Also if I wanna get a machine that comes with 140W 3060 + a 1080p screen, what model should I get ?

 

[goatedpenguin]

12700H currently has the slighter edge against its counterpart and here is the laptop of ur needs:https://www.amazon.com/AORUS-15-KE4-i7-12700H-Thunderbolt/dp/B0BFGX9QN8/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2B1CLDU0GS3PT&keywords=rtx+3060+laptop+12700h&qid=1665935573&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjQwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=rtx+3060+laptop+12700h%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-3

[mrchow19910319]

13 minutes ago, swabro said:

12700H currently has the slighter edge against its counterpart and here is the laptop of ur needs:https://www.amazon.com/AORUS-15-KE4-i7-12700H-Thunderbolt/dp/B0BFGX9QN8/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2B1CLDU0GS3PT&keywords=rtx+3060+laptop+12700h&qid=1665935573&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjQwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=rtx+3060+laptop+12700h%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-3

I will definitely check it out. Thanks! 

[Darkseth]

Intel will be faster at high TDPs (above 40-45w), AMD will be faster at lower TDPs, since it scales much better to the bottom.

 

AMD will also be more efficient, leading to better Batterylife and less noise outside of Gaming. Also, see Jarrod's tech on Youtube. He tests Gaming Laptops, and is one of the best at it. His Battery Life ranking consists of AMD Models only for the first half.

 

In my Opinion: You're almost NEVER going for 100% Load in real World (Benchmark, permanent Rendering for 10 hours a day, etc), so you'd benefit more with AMD. Even if you lose 10% Benchmark points, having less heat and noise over the day is SO much more worth it.

 

 

But as always, a Laptop is more than just the CPU. Which models are we talking about?

Is Thunderbolt important?

[mrchow19910319]

10 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

But as always, a Laptop is more than just the CPU. Which models are we talking about?

Is Thunderbolt important?

To be more specific, I am buying laptop from Asian market right now since I am from mainland China. 

My requirements are these: ()

 

• 1080P screen with high screen brightness. the higher the better.
• RTX 3060/3070 (140W +)
• A good CPU that can run VMs smoothly. Since I am goning to duo boot windows and Linux, also using VM inside linux system. At least I am planning to. 
• I dont really care about screen sizes 15.6 , 17.3 are the same to me.
•  

My question is this: intel's 12700H only has 6 performance core but when it comes to single threaded tasks it performs better than AMD's counterpart? I'm still a bit confused since you guys gave me opposite answers, LOL sorry. 

 

[mrchow19910319]

17 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

Intel will be faster at high TDPs (above 40-45w), AMD will be faster at lower TDPs, since it scales much better to the bottom.

 

AMD will also be more efficient, leading to better Batterylife and less noise outside of Gaming. Also, see Jarrod's tech on Youtube. He tests Gaming Laptops, and is one of the best at it. His Battery Life ranking consists of AMD Models only for the first half.

 

In my Opinion: You're almost NEVER going for 100% Load in real World (Benchmark, permanent Rendering for 10 hours a day, etc), so you'd benefit more with AMD. Even if you lose 10% Benchmark points, having less heat and noise over the day is SO much more worth it.

 

 

But as always, a Laptop is more than just the CPU. Which models are we talking about?

Is Thunderbolt important?

 

 

31 minutes ago, swabro said:

12700H currently has the slighter edge against its counterpart and here is the laptop of ur needs:https://www.amazon.com/AORUS-15-KE4-i7-12700H-Thunderbolt/dp/B0BFGX9QN8/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2B1CLDU0GS3PT&keywords=rtx+3060+laptop+12700h&qid=1665935573&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjQwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=rtx+3060+laptop+12700h%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-3

is 6 core /  8 core machine good enough for VMs?? I am planning to run macOS in vmware.. 

[goatedpenguin]

6 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

 

 

is 6 core /  8 core machine good enough for VMs?? I am planning to run macOS in vmware.. 

that is more than enough I run vms on my 2015 mac book pro which has 4 cores and it runs just fine and I use vmware too  

[Darkseth]

27 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

My question is this: intel's 12700H only has 6 performance core but when it comes to single threaded tasks it performs better than AMD's counterpart? 

Those missing 2 Cores can be countered by the 8 E-Cores.

4 E-Cores take the same space away as 1 P Core, but have more Multicore Performance.

So even Multicore will be higher. But all those Cores need Power, that's why 12th gen scales great with more than 45w TDP in terms of how much Multicore Performance comes out.

 

Also, Single Core Performance is faster.

 

But for all that we're talking about Benchmark numbers.

You should ask yourself, how much that matters? You'd be surprised how similar 2 Computers can feel in usage, when their benchmark numbers are so vastly different.

Ryzen 6800H and 12700H, you won't feel a difference. You can measure it when you stop time for rendering, or look at pure Benchmark Numbers.

But blind you probably won't be able to guess whihc CPU is inside.

Those few % more or less Performance don't matter much. Both are the newest and among the best x86 CPUs that exist right now. Both of them are monsters, especially the Intel one, if you allow it do drain 100+ Watt.

If those 2 aren't fast enough for your workflow, No Laptop on the Market will be.

If that's not enough, you have to wait a few years for next gen CPUs.

 

VM: Depends on what you do within those VMs?
My old 4-Core i7 6700k can also run 4 or 5 Linux VMs and navigate through the OS, test Desktops etc, zero issues. Even if i only 4 Cores for each VM. My 32gb Ram will run out before the CPU does. Even if i update the whole System in 5 different VMs, no issues.

But if you use heavy Multicore Applications, it will be different.

 

 

The Question here is NOT, if CPU x is enough for VMs. Thgge Question is: Do you need every single % Performance for what you do, and are willing to sacrafice Efficiency?

Or are you fine with 10% less benchmark numbers for better heat and battery life?

[powertoys]

It's difficult to say without knowing the 2 laptops in question. Two laptops with the exact same CPU can have wildly different performances, the main reasons behind that being the cooling solution of the laptop + how much the laptop manufacturer allows the CPU to unleash it's power.

[mrchow19910319]

On 10/17/2022 at 12:50 AM, Darkseth said:

 

I am planning to run macOS inside virtual box or VMware. I use macOS to organize my icloud library also use some mac apps that works better for my workflow, so basically office and such, as well as some markdown note taking,. That's my plan for now. 

 

On 10/17/2022 at 2:34 AM, unnerfed cthun said:

It's difficult to say without knowing the 2 laptops in question. Two laptops with the exact same CPU can have wildly different performances, the main reasons behind that being the cooling solution of the laptop + how much the laptop manufacturer allows the CPU to unleash it's power.

I know.... I am looking into some laptop that are made by asus, as well as acer. The thing is that Asia market's laptops are quite different from laptops that are selling in north america. I am currently doing research on TDP(both GPU and CPU) of the deivces; screen brightness;  are there any known issues that are discovered after the device itself went on to the market etc...  I want to get a machine that has a 1080P screen and a 3060 or above for it. That is quite hard to find. 

[Darkseth]

3 hours ago, mrchow19910319 said:

I am planning to run macOS inside virtual box or VMware. I use macOS to organize my icloud library also use some mac apps that works better for my workflow, so basically office and such, as well as some markdown note taking,. That's my plan for now

That's easy. Every modern CPU will be very bored doing that (aka: has way more than enough performance). Even 4 year old Quad core CPUs would do that job.

[mrchow19910319]

3 hours ago, Darkseth said:

That's easy. Every modern CPU will be very bored doing that (aka: has way more than enough performance). Even 4 year old Quad core CPUs would do that job.

I see. In order to get the best performance I can, is there any extra steps should I do?? I heard that you can run macOS using KVM under linux system. (maybe I should just install a light weight distro like xubuntu hence and give all the remaining power to the VM) Or, I could just install it using VMware under windows 11. Which one is better? I just want to best performance for my VM thats all. I do this cos I dont have the budget to get a macbook, hence this is my workaround.  

[Darkseth]

18 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

I see. In order to get the best performance I can, is there any extra steps should I do?? I heard that you can run macOS using KVM under linux system. (maybe I should just install a light weight distro like xubuntu hence and give all the remaining power to the VM) Or, I could just install it using VMware under windows 11. Which one is better? I just want to best performance for my VM thats all. I do this cos I dont have the budget to get a macbook, hence this is my workaround.  

That i have absolutely no idea. Never used MacOS in a VM before (well, on my macbook inside Parallels for like 5 minutes).

Since you don't do super heavy performance stuff inside the MacOS VM, i would not bother using a OS you don't prefer.

 

If you prefer Windows, just use a VM under Windows.

 

At least from my experience btw: If you allocate 4 Cores to the VM, it's NOT that those 4 Cores are completrely reserved for the VM, and are unuseable for anything else. They are available for your main OS still.

But the VM is allowed to use those 4 Cores as much as it needs. It doesn't use more than it needs to complete a Task.

And i'm sure, 4 Cores is plenty for what you want to do with macOS. Even if not, you can change it anytime.

 

You are really overthinking it  Don't worry!

[mrchow19910319]

37 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

You are really overthinking it  Don't worry!

my secret super power.... found by you. /s 

[mrchow19910319]

@Darkseth  @unnerfed cthun  @swabro

 

after checking pricing on the loacl market, I am planning to get a Acer Nitro 5. i5-12500H + 3060 with 16GB of DDR4 ram is the spec I am choosing. So, the money I saved from getting an i7 machine will be used to get 32GB of RAM as well as some nvme SSD + 2.5inch HDD. This is my plan for now. Hope I wont be regretting not getting the i7 version. 

[goatedpenguin]

14 hours ago, mrchow19910319 said:

@Darkseth  @unnerfed cthun  @swabro

 

after checking pricing on the loacl market, I am planning to get a Acer Nitro 5. i5-12500H + 3060 with 16GB of DDR4 ram is the spec I am choosing. So, the money I saved from getting an i7 machine will be used to get 32GB of RAM as well as some nvme SSD + 2.5inch HDD. This is my plan for now. Hope I wont be regretting not getting the i7 version. 

wait so this solely for running vms right? if yes I would not be doing that and just transfer ur money on the i7 processor money to a better laptop 

[mrchow19910319]

4 hours ago, swabro said:

wait so this solely for running vms right? if yes I would not be doing that and just transfer ur money on the i7 processor money to a better laptop 

lol yes. macOS VM is a pretty big part of my workflow. I do use mac specific software to deal with a lot of images and files and so on. The thing is I could not find many laptops that come with a 1080P screen + a 3060. Most of them have a 1440p screen, I think for AAA titles a 1080p screen is better..... 

[mrchow19910319]

4 hours ago, swabro said:

wait so this solely for running vms right? if yes I would not be doing that and just transfer ur money on the i7 processor money to a better laptop 

could you recommend some??? 

 

 

[mrchow19910319]

lol

 

i'm getting a R9000K in mainland china with R95900HX + RTX 3080 (165W 16GB VRAM) + 32GB of DDR4 3200Hz RAM + 1TB of NVME SSD. screen resolution is 2560x1600 165Hz 500 nit 10bit gsync/freesync premium display. 

 

pretty happy with the purchase, waiting for it to ship to me. 

 

just letting you guys know. 

 

currently I am using a 4 core machine which sometimes struggles to create/mod heavy excel files. LOL 

 

https://item.jd.com/100044892519.html