What case to pick? Must fit 480 mm radiator or more + 6 HDDs or more

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, Verhulstak said:

190 doesn't it go for like a 100, in what country do you live in

A normal meshify is usuaully around 100-130 the xl is a chunk more

[Verhulstak]

24 minutes ago, jaslion said:

A normal meshify is usuaully around 100-130 the xl is a chunk more

ok i saw the non xl also why is it around 300 on amazon

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, Verhulstak said:

ok i saw the non xl also why is it around 300 on amazon

Its a big object so takes a lot of money to ship. That with it being a more limited run. Also just wacky amazon prices

[Verhulstak]

4 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Its a big object so takes a lot of money to ship. That with it being a more limited run. Also just wacky amazon prices

yea its probably amazon, bc thats absurd like a case or a xbox series s

[TexasBulldog74]

Lian Li Lancool 3 you can do dual 420's with 4 3.5" Drives.  480 is huge

[fonzz1e]

5 hours ago, TexasBulldog74 said:

Lian Li Lancool 3 you can do dual 420's with 4 3.5" Drives.  480 is huge

afaik once 420 is on top, u can't fit a 420 in the front... 360 works tho

[Kratos]

Sorry been a few days out of the forum.

I did further investigation and ditched the Enthoo 719 & not go for dual 480 mm.

Right now I'm either going with one 480 mm or 2x 360 mm. What would you recommend??

 

Also, I think i'll cut some big corners from the cooling and go for the 4090 when it launches. Here in my country it's going to be 2000€..... but also RTX 4080 16GB will be around 1500€. So I do think it's worth the 500€ since i'm getting almost 2x the CUDA cores and 50% more of VRAM. I find myself stupid because I never actually expected to hear myself saying a 4090 would be worth the extra from a 4080. Something I would've never done from a 3080 to 3090 (the performance was marginal for double the price). Anyway, from what i've seen, the cooler from the cards will be enough so at the moment no GPU water cooling planned.

 

No PSU required too, since my HX1200i has 6 PCI-E connections which can handle the 4090 and a beast CPU (glad I bought it for like 180€ 3 years ago now the price is insane)

 

Now my choices are the Meshify 2 XL or the Enthoo Pro II. Both REALLY cheap. I just have an offer on a Enthoo Pro 2 for 150€ which is... well... less than what I paid for my current case (Corsair 760T).

So further into it here's my pros and cons list for both:

 

-Meshify 2 XL:

Pros

-Has support for a 480 mm radiator on top

-Maybe better airflow than the Entho Pro II???

-Can place Hard drive cages on the bottom without sacrificying the side fans (but screws the PSU cabling)

 

Cons

-Has very little space for PSU Cabling (from what it looks like)

-No stock for HDD Cages/Brakets

-No airflow for the PSU (can you mount a 120 mm fan on the PSU Shrowd??)

-Thick top radiator clearance issues

 

 

-Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2

Pros

-Airflow better than 719

-Available HDD Cages for 15€ a pair (expensive, but at least I can get them) does anyone know if those cages are compatible with the Fractal Design case????

-More room for cables specially in the PSU since it can be mounted vertically on the front or back of the case (yes, I like to see my PSU and cables)

-Better airflow for the PSU on the front

-Can mount HDD Cages on more points.

 

Cons

-No 480 mm radiator on top

- If you can mount fans on the PSU Shrowd of the Meshify then it will have worse airflow for the psu on the Enthoo

-Front Panel sucks

 

Thank you guys.

[Cavalry Canuck]

Might be a little late to ask, but have you considered alternative radiator arrangements?
 

For instance, a 420 x 140 is damn near the same area as 480 x 120. Another option, instead of single big rads, is multiple smaller ones run in series or parallel that get you the same area. Two 240s in series is the same as a 480.
 

Putting the two ideas together, find a case that will let you run a 420 on the front for your GPU, and a 240 top and bottom for your CPU. Gets you the exact same cooling capacity you are after, but will grant you far more flexibility in your case selection.

[Kratos]

2 hours ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

Might be a little late to ask, but have you considered alternative radiator arrangements?
 

For instance, a 420 x 140 is damn near the same area as 480 x 120. Another option, instead of single big rads, is multiple smaller ones run in series or parallel that get you the same area. Two 240s in series is the same as a 480.
 

Putting the two ideas together, find a case that will let you run a 420 on the front for your GPU, and a 240 top and bottom for your CPU. Gets you the exact same cooling capacity you are after, but will grant you far more flexibility in your case selection.

That is an interesting point!

I might consider it. Though I don't know if i'll consider any 420 because of 140 mm fans. They're harder to get and more expensive than 120 mm.

As for what you said, I'm not sure I want to cool the gpu anymore, so it would have to be 2 rads for the CPU if I take that route.

The only downside is, that maybe dual 240 or 360 is more expensive than a single 480. Plus, there would be more cable mess.

I will see if it's cheaper. Maybe thinner rads? I know thick ones are really good but maybe x2 thin 360 would do the job instead of a thick 480?

[Kratos]

I think first I will need to order the case and then see how things fit there and meassure stuff.

I will create a separate post about watercooling.

Meanwhile I'm still deciding which case to pick between the Meshify 2 XL or the Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2

[Cavalry Canuck]

4 hours ago, Kratos said:

That is an interesting point!

I might consider it. Though I don't know if i'll consider any 420 because of 140 mm fans. They're harder to get and more expensive than 120 mm.

As for what you said, I'm not sure I want to cool the gpu anymore, so it would have to be 2 rads for the CPU if I take that route.

The only downside is, that maybe dual 240 or 360 is more expensive than a single 480. Plus, there would be more cable mess.

I will see if it's cheaper. Maybe thinner rads? I know thick ones are really good but maybe x2 thin 360 would do the job instead of a thick 480?

About the fans, I’ve had no issues sourcing 140mm fans. And with a 420mm radiator vs a 480, you’d only need 3 x 140mm fans vs 4 x 120mm fans. The 120mm fans would need to be   at least 33% cheaper for it to be more cost-effective to stick with the 120mm-based setup.
 

 

Fans aside, there is a lot to consider with water cooling. Just because a radiator is thicker doesn’t mean that it will cool any better. Some manufacturers use less fins per inch on thicker radiators to keep air resistance similar between radiators of different thicknesses. Even without this consideration, the thicker the radiator, the more the air heats up, and the less efficient the average thermal transfer through the whole thickness of the radiator will be. The end result of these is that the heat radiators dissipate doesn’t scale with thickness. 

For example, going to a 45mm thick rad from 30mm rad of the same area might yield only a 5-10% improvement in water temps, even in a push-pull configuration. From this, it’s easy to see how going from a 360 x 120 x 30mm radiator to a 240 x 120 x 45mm will not yield equitable results; you will see a performance drop if anything. In short, maximizing your radiator area is your best bet, but you don’t need 2 x thin 360mm  radiators to equate to a single thick 480mm radiator.
 

Another would be radiator sizing. The old rule-of-thumb for radiator sizing was 120mm minimum for every component cooled, and then another 120mm per component you are over-clocking. This worked out to a single 480mm worth of radiator if you were cooling an over-clocked CPU and GPU. Obviously this doesn’t apply anymore with higher-wattage components; but when it did, it worked out to about a millimeter of radiator length for every watt of component to be cooled. Even with the latest high-wattage CPUs and GPUs, you can meet this standard with 600mm worth of radiator (720mm in the most egregious example).
 

Both are far below the 960mm worth you were first considering with 2 x 480mm radiators. 600mm is achievable with a 240 front, 240 top, and a 120 back or bottom. Many cases allow this configuration. You could also get more than the equivalent amount of radiator area (72,000mm2 vs 78,400mm2) by running a pair of 280s, one in the front and one up top (my current loop setup). 

 

4 hours ago, Kratos said:

I think first I will need to order the case and then see how things fit there and meassure stuff.

I will create a separate post about watercooling.

Meanwhile I'm still deciding which case to pick between the Meshify 2 XL or the Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2

From my perspective, that depends on if you want optical drives or not. If you want optical drive options, go with the Phanteks. If not, go with the Meshify. Both will give you more than enough radiator support and drive-mounting options.

[Kratos]

 

On 9/30/2022 at 1:28 PM, Cavalry Canuck said:

About the fans, I’ve had no issues sourcing 140mm fans. And with a 420mm radiator vs a 480, you’d only need 3 x 140mm fans vs 4 x 120mm fans. The 120mm fans would need to be   at least 33% cheaper for it to be more cost-effective to stick with the 120mm-based setup.
 

 

Fans aside, there is a lot to consider with water cooling. Just because a radiator is thicker doesn’t mean that it will cool any better. Some manufacturers use less fins per inch on thicker radiators to keep air resistance similar between radiators of different thicknesses. Even without this consideration, the thicker the radiator, the more the air heats up, and the less efficient the average thermal transfer through the whole thickness of the radiator will be. The end result of these is that the heat radiators dissipate doesn’t scale with thickness. 

For example, going to a 45mm thick rad from 30mm rad of the same area might yield only a 5-10% improvement in water temps, even in a push-pull configuration. From this, it’s easy to see how going from a 360 x 120 x 30mm radiator to a 240 x 120 x 45mm will not yield equitable results; you will see a performance drop if anything. In short, maximizing your radiator area is your best bet, but you don’t need 2 x thin 360mm  radiators to equate to a single thick 480mm radiator.
 

Another would be radiator sizing. The old rule-of-thumb for radiator sizing was 120mm minimum for every component cooled, and then another 120mm per component you are over-clocking. This worked out to a single 480mm worth of radiator if you were cooling an over-clocked CPU and GPU. Obviously this doesn’t apply anymore with higher-wattage components; but when it did, it worked out to about a millimeter of radiator length for every watt of component to be cooled. Even with the latest high-wattage CPUs and GPUs, you can meet this standard with 600mm worth of radiator (720mm in the most egregious example).
 

Both are far below the 960mm worth you were first considering with 2 x 480mm radiators. 600mm is achievable with a 240 front, 240 top, and a 120 back or bottom. Many cases allow this configuration. You could also get more than the equivalent amount of radiator area (72,000mm2 vs 78,400mm2) by running a pair of 280s, one in the front and one up top (my current loop setup). 

 

From my perspective, that depends on if you want optical drives or not. If you want optical drive options, go with the Phanteks. If not, go with the Meshify. Both will give you more than enough radiator support and drive-mounting options.

I'm not interested in Optical drives so no issue there. I do have a Blu-ray optical drive, but I also have a SATA to USB adapter, as well as an external Blu-ray drive, so I can always go for a USB for Optical drive.

 

As for radiators, where can I find a 600 or 720 mm one? Not that I'm going to get one, but i'm really curious haha.

So, thickness of the radiators is less important than surface area? With these power hungry 95c 7950x or 300W 13900K I don't think a single 360 mm would be enough.

I might consider Dual 240 mm though.

 

I also saw the Thermaltake The Tower 900, anyone tried that one or know some more info? I've seen that it supports even 560 mm radiators, 6x HDD 3.5 inch and LOTS of fans. Even the PSU has a lot of room to breathe, but I don't like the weird 180 degree angle of the motherboard and gpu. Any thoughts here?

 

 

[Kratos]

Ah, screw it, I think i'm gonna go with the fractal design meshify 2 XL. Top 480 mm rad with 4 Unifans. Then front 4x 120 mm unifans (maybe). Mount the drives on the side of the case (that way they get cooled off by the fans), install water pump & reservoir on the bottom, and lastly, install the fans I already have on the PSU shrowd so they act as intake to get all the PSU heat & blow it on the gpu fans, then recirculate it to the motherboard were there will be an exhaust on the top 480 mm and side 140 mm. I will do a diagram on Photoshop and see what you guys think. I think I will only need 3 tubes right?? One from the pump/reservoir to the CPU block in, then another one from the CPU block out, to the radiator in, then another one from the radiator out to the reservoir in???

I will create a second water cooling post for the custom parts since i'm a bit lost.

I think it's the best solution. Also probably the cheapest (except the Unifans). Right now the only cheaper alternative is the Phanteks, but it's only 30€ cheaper and has slightly worse airflow.

[Cavalry Canuck]

14 hours ago, Kratos said:

 

I'm not interested in Optical drives so no issue there. I do have a Blu-ray optical drive, but I also have a SATA to USB adapter, as well as an external Blu-ray drive, so I can always go for a USB for Optical drive.

 

As for radiators, where can I find a 600 or 720 mm one? Not that I'm going to get one, but i'm really curious haha.

So, thickness of the radiators is less important than surface area? With these power hungry 95c 7950x or 300W 13900K I don't think a single 360 mm would be enough.

I might consider Dual 240 mm though.

 

I like to mention it whether it’s asked for or not. A lot of people don’t realize that most Phanteks cases either come with 5.25” bays out of the box, or can have an enclosure purchased from Phanteks to be installed in the case after the fact.
 

I’m speaking the equivalency of a 600mm or 720mm. For example, a 240 and a 360 would be 600mm worth of rad, two 360s are 720mm worth of rad, etc.

[Kratos]

14 hours ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

I like to mention it whether it’s asked for or not. A lot of people don’t realize that most Phanteks cases either come with 5.25” bays out of the box, or can have an enclosure purchased from Phanteks to be installed in the case after the fact.
 

I’m speaking the equivalency of a 600mm or 720mm. For example, a 240 and a 360 would be 600mm worth of rad, two 360s are 720mm worth of rad, etc.

Oh ok I see, I was just curious for the 600 mm hahaah that would have to be 5x 120 mm.

 

I was with PC Building Simulator. Turns out you cant have 4x 120 mm on the front and top of the Meshify 2 XL. I thought this applied to the front and side. Also tried 420 mm on top and 4x 120 mm on the front, that did work. Foolish of myself, I then discovered that the side needs to be mooved to the front for hard drive mounting options, yikes.

I don't think it will let me mount that 420 or 480 mm on the top, or even side fans. I will have a look. 

Turns out PC Simulator is actually a great tool for planning your builds and trying stuff no one has reviewed or there's hardly any info about it.

 

Since it's unlikely to have the drives mounted at the side with a 480 mm radiator on top and some fans on the side, I was planning on just stacking the hard drive cages with some zip ties (not sure if they're stackable). Then I looked at the price... 32€ for the cage (no trays). 22€ for the trays. I need 2 of each to have 4 drives more capacity.... so that is like 152€ more.... for a freacking 4 slot cage & trays. Even buying a whole Define 7 or Meshify is cheapper and comes with 4 already... plus backup build maybe. Adding that to the total Meshify 2 XL then it's about 360€.... which I would be better off with a Thermaltake W100.

Or just the Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 with 2x more drive cages (stackable, comes with trays, and they're 18€) that means 36€ of expansions + 160€ for the case. 206€ total. Way cheapper.

 

Now my final question, anyone knows if the Phanteks HDD Cages are compatible with the Fractal Meshify 2 XL case mounts? If they are then i'm going with the XL. If they aren't then the Meshify 2 XL is out of my options (a real shame).

[Cavalry Canuck]

5 hours ago, Kratos said:

Oh ok I see, I was just curious for the 600 mm hahaah that would have to be 5x 120 mm.

 

I was with PC Building Simulator. Turns out you cant have 4x 120 mm on the front and top of the Meshify 2 XL. I thought this applied to the front and side. Also tried 420 mm on top and 4x 120 mm on the front, that did work. Foolish of myself, I then discovered that the side needs to be mooved to the front for hard drive mounting options, yikes.

I don't think it will let me mount that 420 or 480 mm on the top, or even side fans. I will have a look. 

Turns out PC Simulator is actually a great tool for planning your builds and trying stuff no one has reviewed or there's hardly any info about it.

 

Since it's unlikely to have the drives mounted at the side with a 480 mm radiator on top and some fans on the side, I was planning on just stacking the hard drive cages with some zip ties (not sure if they're stackable). Then I looked at the price... 32€ for the cage (no trays). 22€ for the trays. I need 2 of each to have 4 drives more capacity.... so that is like 152€ more.... for a freacking 4 slot cage & trays. Even buying a whole Define 7 or Meshify is cheapper and comes with 4 already... plus backup build maybe. Adding that to the total Meshify 2 XL then it's about 360€.... which I would be better off with a Thermaltake W100.

Or just the Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 with 2x more drive cages (stackable, comes with trays, and they're 18€) that means 36€ of expansions + 160€ for the case. 206€ total. Way cheapper.

 

Now my final question, anyone knows if the Phanteks HDD Cages are compatible with the Fractal Meshify 2 XL case mounts? If they are then i'm going with the XL. If they aren't then the Meshify 2 XL is out of my options (a real shame).

Why not stick 4 of the hard drives under the PSU shroud of the Fractal, 2 on the backside of the motherboard tray, and then max out the front and top for your radiator space? Rest of the case should still have plenty of room for the remaining watercooling components.

[fonzz1e]

5 hours ago, Kratos said:

Phanteks HDD Cages are compatible with the Fractal Meshify 2 XL case mounts?

nope

 

On 10/3/2022 at 2:33 AM, Kratos said:

thickness of the radiators is less important than surface area?

yes have more rads is better, having 2 slim rads wins over 1 thick rad

3x 360 rad > 2x 480 rad

[Kratos]

4 hours ago, Cavalry Canuck said:

Why not stick 4 of the hard drives under the PSU shroud of the Fractal, 2 on the backside of the motherboard tray, and then max out the front and top for your radiator space? Rest of the case should still have plenty of room for the remaining watercooling components.

Yes I was planning on doing that, but I need more drives. I've got already 6x 3.5" drives and have about 500 GB left in one of them, rest are full. So I wanted to have the option of about 2 more drives (8 drives will that be) for future upgrades.

 

8 hours ago, fonzz1e said:

nope

 

yes have more rads is better, having 2 slim rads wins over 1 thick rad

3x 360 rad > 2x 480 rad

Maybe that's better. I think i'll go then with the Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2. Probably a 420 mm radiator on the top (I think it supports it) otherwise then just a 360 mm on the top. Then 4x 120 mm fans on the front and the rest for the Pump & some more drives & fans.

What do you guys think? I think it's a good balance between price, water cooling, cooling fans, storage & airflow.

It's really sad the Meshifiy 2 XL is not an option due to the drive cages & trays I mean how hard could it be to re-stock them or produce more? Since it's a known thing on those cases and clearly there is demand for it 

[tkitch]

Raijintek Eris Evo

 

Pop in 2x 560mm Rads, plus more!  Get all your watercooling you'll ever need! 

[Kratos]

On 10/6/2022 at 3:27 PM, tkitch said:

Raijintek Eris Evo

 

Pop in 2x 560mm Rads, plus more!  Get all your watercooling you'll ever need! 

Yes, looks really interesting but.....It's a bit over budget and only has 5x HDD capacity.

I have already 6x HDDs and will need to buy the 7th in a couple of weeks since I only have 200 GB left.

 

Is it expandable? Can you add HDD expansion slots/cages? If so, then I might consider it, though it is way over my budget.

 

Also, offtopic. I might not buy as I planned x8 Lian Li unifans & was considering cheaper ones but good ones. I might buy 4x Unifans for radiator and the other 4 maybe some Bequiet, Corsair or Noctuas iPPC for the case airflow. What do you think guys?

 

I feel like this thread never ends