10,000rpm HDD in new build

[zack96]

Hi

 

Just need some brief advice

 

Im leaning towards just buying 1 drive for my build and thats a 10,000rpm HDD but will i be missing out if the other storage tech is now at a reliable state.

 

Ive been using for the past decade in my MAXIMUS IV EXTREME-Z i7 16gb 270x  just one 7,200rpm (500Gb) HDD for both OS and games and its suited me because its been realible and fine.

 

Ive upgraded to Strix B450-F Gaming II Ryzen 5 3600, 16GB 3000Mhz, Titan 2015 and its got options for different types of M.2 storages

 

Are these any realiable compared to SSDs from 5 yrs ago.

 

Should I .......

 

Buy any 128gb M.2 put win 10 on it, and buy a 1 TB SSD for games and programs.

Buy any 128gb M.2 put win 10 on it and buy a 1 TB 10000rpm HDD for games and programs

 

Or Just Buy one 1TB 10,000rpm HDD and put both the OS, Games & programs on it and be done,

 

Just what do you think....I do have trust in HDD they do last but have never used SSDs or M.2

 

Thanks

[Zalosath]

1 minute ago, zack96 said:

Hi

 

Just need some brief advice

 

Im leaning towards just buying 1 drive for my build and thats a 10,000rpm HDD but will i be missing out if the other storage tech is now at a reliable state.

 

Ive been using for the past decade in my MAXIMUS IV EXTREME-Z i7 16gb 270x  just one 7,200rpm (500Gb) HDD for both OS and games and its suited me because its been realible and fine.

 

Ive upgraded to Strix B450-F Gaming II Ryzen 5 3600, 16GB 3000Mhz, Titan 2015 and its got options for different types of M.2 storages

 

Are these any realiable compared to SSDs from 5 yrs ago.

 

Should I .......

 

Buy any 128gb M.2 put win 10 on it, and buy a 1 GB SSD for games and programs.

Buy any 128gb M.2 put win 10 on it and buy a 1 GB 10000rpm HDD for games and programs

 

Or Just Buy one 1GB 10,000rpm HDD and put both the OS, Games & programs on it and be done,

 

Just what do you think....I do have trust in HDD they do last but have never used SSDs or M.2

 

Thanks

You're not fitting much on a 1GB drive I assume you mean TB?

[zack96]

3 minutes ago, Zalosath said:

You're not fitting much on a 1GB drive I assume you mean TB?

Opps sorry, ive just changed it to 1TB

[SimplyChunk]

Get an M.2 you will be fine

 

[PDifolco]

Dont get floppies 5.25, don't get a HDD, get a M2 SSD

 

[zack96]

2 minutes ago, SimplyChunk said:

Get an M.2 you will be fine

 

So should i just buy one 1TB M.2 and install OS games Photoshop on that one drive, bit worried that the constant access of the M.2 would degrade quicker as i have heard they have a certain picobytes of read/write before they start failing something which a HDD doesnt suffer from, of maybe buy a small 128gb m.2 for win10 only, and the 1TB 10000rpm HDD for games photoshop access

[jones177]

10,000rpm HDD drives are a bit dated.

 

I uses them from 2007 to 2016 and replaced them with 1tb SSDs. They were WD VelociRaptors.

The VelociRaptors had burst read speeds almost as fast as a SATA SSD and could do writes faster.

 

I used them because they got rid of stutter in open world modded games. These games were unplayable with a 7,200rpm drive.

 

The run time before they wrote errors is about 2 years. None died hard and I can still get data from them.

 

The SSDs that replaced the Raptors are still in use with zero errors. One is listed below. It is a Crucial MX300.

 

 

[mariushm]

10000 rpm drives will be slower than a SATA SSD like WD Blue for example, anything decent with TLC memory, not QLC.

Any mechanical drive will be slower than SSDs.

 

The endurance of a SSD varies with capacity. If using TLC memory, A 120-128 GB drive will last for around 40-50 TB of writes, a 250 GB drive will do around 100-120 TB, a 500 GB drive may do 200 TB and 1 TB drive will generally be rated at 400 TB of writes.

 

By the time you go through that much data using just Photoshop, you'd be able to afford another SSD. 

Also, you can just get a second mechanical drive, and move anything you don't use to the mechanical drive - the more free space is available on a SSD the more amount can be kept in pseudo-SLC mode as a write cache, and that pseudo-SLC mode memory has MUCH higher endurance (as in 10k+ erase cycles instead of 1-3k for regular TLC mode memory).

For example Samsung 980 drives can have up to around 160 GB of pseudo-SLC cache memory on a 1 TB model.  

[manikyath]

10K drives are a very dated idea. they're nowhere near the iops you get from an SSD, they're loud, hot, and relatively unreliable.

 

essentially, the only place you should use them (or rather, use 15k drives) is in places that'll burn trough an SSD's writes in relatively short order. and those places are a case of "if you have to ask, it's not you".

 

if you plan to, let's say, write 200GB per day, every day, religiously.. you may have to factor in having to replace the SSD in a few years, but even then.. that's the same deal for spinning rust.

[SimplyChunk]

25 minutes ago, zack96 said:

So should i just buy one 1TB M.2 and install OS games Photoshop on that one drive, bit worried that the constant access of the M.2 would degrade quicker as i have heard they have a certain picobytes of read/write before they start failing something which a HDD doesnt suffer from, of maybe buy a small 128gb m.2 for win10 only, and the 1TB 10000rpm HDD for games photoshop access

I use a small 3rd gen M.2 SSD (250GB Corsair) for my OS and an 'arrangement' of 2.5 SSDs and 7200rpm HDDs for everything else.

 

Simply because it saves having to install everything again when i wipe the C: drive on an OS install

[PDifolco]

1 hour ago, zack96 said:

So should i just buy one 1TB M.2 and install OS games Photoshop on that one drive, bit worried that the constant access of the M.2 would degrade quicker as i have heard they have a certain picobytes of read/write before they start failing something which a HDD doesnt suffer from, of maybe buy a small 128gb m.2 for win10 only, and the 1TB 10000rpm HDD for games photoshop access

I won't worry to much about M2 lifespan, mine (I use 2) degrade at approx 2%/year, I'll be dead before them lol!

Otoh mechanical drives don't last more than 10 years due to wear and failures...

 

 

[mariushm]

@zack96 just to be absolutely clear.  

 

SSDs are only affected by ERASES, not reading or writing (well, to write the underlying memory has to be erased so you could say writing causes wear but it's indirect).

 

You can read files from a SSD non-stop and the SSD won't wear. 

 

A SSD is divided into small blocks of memory, let's say 24-64 MB each. These blocks are divided into smaller "pages" of let's say 4 KB.  

SSDs are designed so that you can write in one of these pages but you can't change the content once it's written. In order to write new data to that page, you have to erase the whole block of 24-64 MB.  This erase process cause some wear on the block of memory, there's a limited number of erase cycles the memory supports - around 1000-3000 for TLC memory, 3-7000 for MLC, 6-12k for SLC memory. 

 

The SSD controller has a lot of memory hidden from you from the start that it used to as spare memory in case one such block becomes read only (no more erases possible), and also as area used to expand the life of the SSD.

For example, with mechanical hard drives when if you change a word in a text document and save the document, the mechanical drive would overwrite exactly those few bytes of the word on the drive surface.

With SSDs, the SSD controller would take the request from the operating system that the bytes of the word must be changed, the 4 KB page is found, the contents is read in memory and the bytes are changed, and now the SSD controller finds a random empty 4 KB page in some other block of flash memory and writes the data there. The original 4 KB page is "marked for deletion" - can't write data in it, and it contains garbage data now (outdated). 

At some point, when enough such 4 KB pages are garbage in a block, the SSD will do the erase, and make those 24-64 MB of memory available again for writing. 

 

SSDs will also switch some amount of memory in a pseudo-SLC mode, where instead of squeezing 3-4 bits into a memory cell, they only store one bit. This means that they take some amount of unused memory cells and switch them to storing less bits - for example, they can take 300 GB of unused TLC memory, into 100 GB of SLC memory. 

The benefit is that ssd controller has to spend much less time placing one bit into a memory cell, compared to placing the exact amount of energy to represent one out of 8-15 possible values (for TLC or QLC) so the write speeds are much higher. 

Also, the memory in this mode can handle erases better - instead of wearing out after a few thousand erases, the memory in this mode could handle much more erase cycles. 

Whatever you write to write to the SSD, a SSD would normally write into this pseudoSLC memory area and then slowly, usually a few minutes after the writing is done, will gradually transfer the data to the more permanent MLC/TLC/QLC memory area, making room in the write cache / pseudoSLC area for more writes. 

So for example, let's say your Photoshop creates a temporary 100 MB file, and deletes it after around 20 minutes. It's quite possible this temporary file never leaves that SLC cache area before Photoshop erases it, so you'd get basically no wear on the SSD from such temporary writes. 

 

 

[Needfuldoer]

It's not 2005 anymore. For average daily user workloads, modern SSDs are obsolete in terms of storage capacity long before they completely "wear out" from use.

 

If you're extremely worried about SSDs "wearing out", look into used datacenter SSDs. They're rated for a workload of multiple full drive writes per day. Unless you're really slamming your drive processing Linux ISOs, you're not wearing one of those out any time soon.

[Pickles von Brine]

Stick with NVME bud. Much better, faster and more reliable. My entire system no longer has any spinning disk in it. 

[Rysters Tech]

10k rpm drives often aren't worth it as they give up loads of capacity for not much faster performance in the real world as modern lower rpm drives such as the WD Red which is a 5400rpm drive can outperform many older 7200rpm and 10k rpm drives despite it being SMR (these drives are decent, just don't use them in any kind of raid or multi drive file system such as ZFS under any circumstance) it performs quite well.

however, it is all "dog water" as the kids say compared to just about any SSD. I use Kingston a400 SATA models for budget projects and they work well, outperform any hard drive, and are affordable. but the considerably faster Samsung SATA drives aren't much more expensive at 500GB and beyond.