Games and Guis with Python (Kivy) Am I wasting my time?

[cmndr]

Amazon is probably a bit more aggressive about reaching out than others.

 

With that said I do see SOME value in doing SOME coding drills.

A lot of things that I used to previously look up are now largely subconscious. I have a better feel for the standard library. I think more deeply about what can go wrong in terms of coding and there are a handful of tricks that end up translating over.

I am admittedly focusing on DS moreso than SWE but DS has its own can of worms to contend with (code logistic regression with stochastic gradient descent from scratch, explain the difference between bagging and boosting, are you familiar with X, Y Z [there's an unending number of techniques])

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Wictorian said:

I don't want to make games. I just want to make 1 game. Possibly a few more in the far future if I have the inspiration.

 

You have a point but as I said I hate Java. Are there no loopholes?

Many companies use different technologies. 

 

Java is just a popular choice and I hated it too. It's fine. Once you have it installed and you learn how to use its object oriented style, it becomes great in my opinion. 

 

I love C#. As long as you use a "c-style" language, you should be fine. 

Python has a ton of apis that do a lot of work for you, and it does create weaker programers imo. 

Use all the cool data structures and algorithms, but make sure you write them the hard way if you use a rapid development language like python. 

Never use things like array.sort()... Outside a paid environment. 

Learning, do the hard way. Paid, do the way your company wants. 

[Wictorian]

3 hours ago, cmndr said:

Also while IBM is a good name on the resume, the $$$ aren't the same (not that that's everything). With that said, careers are marathons and 1-2 years at IBM would set you up for interviews at other top places later on too.

For me it is everything. Not that I care about money that much but what is the point of working then? 

[Wictorian]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

Many companies use different technologies. 

 

Java is just a popular choice and I hated it too. It's fine. Once you have it installed and you learn how to use its object oriented style, it becomes great in my opinion. 

 

I love C#. As long as you use a "c-style" language, you should be fine. 

Python has a ton of apis that do a lot of work for you, and it does create weaker programers imo. 

Use all the cool data structures and algorithms, but make sure you write them the hard way if you use a rapid development language like python. 

Never use things like array.sort()... Outside a paid environment. 

Learning, do the hard way. Paid, do the way your company wants. 

Yeah I like doing things myself. I hate Java for other reasons. I was thinking of learning javascript. As python is unbearably slow I have been wanting to move on.

[Wictorian]

This thread has been absolutely fascinating. Especially how fast it moves from topic to topic. Thanks for all the wonderful replies by the way.

 

 

[wasab]

16 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

For me it is everything. Not that I care about money that much but what is the point of working then? 

If you just want the money, you can easily do that by working 80 hours a week and have literally no life. 
 

Finance guys at wall streets make 150k straight out of school and in entry level positions but considering they work 70 hours+, their hourly wage is no better than those make only 80k a year but only work 40 hours a week.

 

Another important thing to realize is the work culture, the type of work you do, and what type of people you work with. If your boss and coworkers are assholes and your work/work environment are stressful, everyone have difficult time getting along, you hate the work, etc no amount of money will convince me to stay to be honest. 

 

Goal in life is to maximize happiness, if overworking for money lowers that than you are going in the wrong directions. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

Yeah I like doing things myself. I hate Java for other reasons. I was thinking of learning javascript. As python is unbearably slow I have been wanting to move on.

Java is for computer programs. 

 

JavaScript is really an extension of frontend. 

Some call it 

"Html/css"

But really I can be called

"HTML/CSS/JavaScript"

 

If you like visual stuff do that trio. 

If you like problem solving and logic, so the regular Java. 

[Wictorian]

3 minutes ago, fpo said:

Java is for computer programs. 

 

JavaScript is really an extension of frontend. 

Some call it 

"Html/css"

But really I can be called

"HTML/CSS/JavaScript"

 

If you like visual stuff do that trio. 

If you like problem solving and logic, so the regular Java. 

I dont like visual stuff. I had just heard javascript was cool. 

 

Ok. I will try Java. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

I dont like visual stuff. I had just heard javascript was cool. 

 

Ok. I will try Java. 

It's good to learn a little "frontend."

 

If you can find a day to learn enough to

1. Create an HTML document basic

2. What the parts for

3. How to make a paragraph and different text and new lines

4. Insert a picture, insert a link, insert a picture as a link

5. Create a submittable form with text boxes, check boxes, button

6. Create a bullet point list

Change colours of things independently

7. Spin a picture

8. Make a pop-up confirmation thingy

 

Then you're pretty set for basic HTML work. 

[Wictorian]

4 minutes ago, fpo said:

It's good to learn a little "frontend."

 

If you can find a day to learn enough to

1. Create an HTML document basic

2. What the parts for

3. How to make a paragraph and different text and new lines

4. Insert a picture, insert a link, insert a picture as a link

5. Create a submittable form with text boxes, check boxes, button

6. Create a bullet point list

Change colours of things independently

7. Spin a picture

8. Make a pop-up confirmation thingy

 

Then you're pretty set for basic HTML work. 

I know some HTML( probably enough to do most of these things) . Nevertheless I think web apps are cool and this might be worth it.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

I know some HTML( probably enough to do most of these things) . Nevertheless I think web apps are cool and this might be worth it.

Yeah, as long as you know the basics, you can make adjustments. 

 

Unless you want to learn react or angular, if you can do most, you're probably fine. 

Specialize in practicing Java. Frontend is easy. 

[Wictorian]

2 minutes ago, fpo said:

Yeah, as long as you know the basics, you can make adjustments. 

 

Unless you want to learn react or angular, if you can do most, you're probably fine. 

Specialize in practicing Java. Frontend is easy. 

yeah frontend is children's play however it's difficuly lies is design 

 

So is Java the only option? (besides C# and C++)  

[wasab]

3 hours ago, Wictorian said:

yeah frontend is children's play however it's difficuly lies is design 

 

So is Java the only option? (besides C# and C++)  

You should learn both front and back end if you are into web development.

 

For front end, don't just learn html but an actual framework like react, angular or vue. vanilla html/js like jQuery are now dinosaurs and quickly falling out of relevance. 

 

For backend, java and c# are used in enterprise so large companies and if that is your goal, by all means learn asp net and Java spring/javaEE. 

 

Many newer projects and newer companies will deeply prefer newer cutting age and agiled technologies over the heavier languages and frameworks. Examples are Golang, node(express and recently nextjs), python flask/django and so on. 

 

Both front end and backend are equally high in demand and you can expect front and backend devs to earn roughly the same if money is all you care about so no issue to pick either one. 

 

However, it is best to master both so you can be a well rounded full stack developer. Learn a full stack framework and practice on building a full stack app will give you much wider, full breath knowledge than just focusing on one.

 

Popular full stacks are the MERN, the MEAN, ASP.NET. Java spring MVC and LAMP are older but still wildly used. 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

yeah frontend is children's play however it's difficuly lies is design 

 

So is Java the only option? (besides C# and C++)  

As far as I know, Java is the biggest. 

You can do golang, but it's pretty niche afaik. 

 

Java is fine. After talking to it professionals, Java is the main one and then other people use PL when working in Oracle databases. 

 

I specialized in C#, but switching to another language is hardly a problem. Just get good at one language. Trying others out is fine. 

 

If you search for my old threads, a lot of people gave me very similar advice. Get good at one language, study algorithms, learn some data structures and apply them. Linked lists, queue, dynamic array, 

 

For good practice, leet code and hacker rank are cool. 

Do 2 problems every morning in an hour ish (total time), and then you're going to get better. 

Starting a programming club at school is a great idea to have more people do problems and then you can have discussions on what you did and why to learn new techniques

[shadow_ray]

8 hours ago, wasab said:

alright, i havent interview at FANNG yet so i guess i cant say much. When i was fresh out of school, i interviewed at quite a few startups and mid size companies, all entry level/junior level postitions. As I remember, 4 leetcoded me and two did not leetcode at all and would ask about school course works and projects.

I recently went through this ordeal. I only applied to junior positions. No FAANG, no MAMAA, mostly local companies and a few bigger multinational companies here and there.

Only two of them gave me leetcode style assignments, but both felt appropriate, given that one was a logistics company and the other dealt with industrial automation and control systems. The rest just did a reality check on my CV, they made sure I was familiar with the technologies and languages I listed.

[Wictorian]

8 hours ago, wasab said:

You should learn both front and back end if you are into web development.

 

For front end, don't just learn html but an actual framework like react, angular or vue. vanilla html/js like jQuery are now dinosaurs and quickly falling out of relevance. 

 

For backend, java and c# are used in enterprise so large companies and if that is your goal, by all means learn asp net and Java spring/javaEE. 

 

Many newer projects and newer companies will deeply prefer newer cutting age and agiled technologies over the heavier languages and frameworks. Examples are Golang, node(express and recently nextjs), python flask/django and so on. 

 

Both front end and backend are equally high in demand and you can expect front and backend devs to earn roughly the same if money is all you care about so no issue to pick either one. 

 

However, it is best to master both so you can be a well rounded full stack developer. Learn a full stack framework and practice on building a full stack app will give you much wider, full breath knowledge than just focusing on one.

 

Popular full stacks are the MERN, the MEAN, ASP.NET. Java spring MVC and LAMP are older but still wildly used. 

I'm not into web development, I just cant deny it is cool. (web apps are useful and not hard to make) 

 

And as money is not everything I would never do frontend.

[Wictorian]

2 hours ago, shadow_ray said:

I recently went through this ordeal. I only applied to junior positions. No FAANG, no MAMAA, mostly local companies and a few bigger multinational companies here and there.

Only two of them gave me leetcode style assignments, but both felt appropriate, given that one was a logistics company and the other dealt with industrial automation and control systems. The rest just did a reality check on my CV, they made sure I was familiar with the technologies and languages I listed.

I know Faang asks you leetcode style questions. I know they also ask you a billion more questions. 

 

I don't really get the argument around leetcode. Is the ultimate question to do or not to do leetcode? It doesn't take much time and indeniably helpful, so why not do it anyways?

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

I'm not into web development, I just cant deny it is cool. (web apps are useful and not hard to make) 

Most jobs are in web related fields. If you like databases, you can learn to use a language with SQL. 

 

I don't know a ton of jobs though. There is app development and swift is definitely a way to go. iPhone customers spend the most money on apps to all other stores.

 

Obviously there is games. If you get really good at algorithms and data structures and any 3d graphics api, you can get a game programming job. 

33 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

And as money is not everything I would never do frontend.

 

I don't know about other programming fields but data science, (R language) robotics, embedded systems (driver development and other super low level C programming for routers and stuff) 

Those are some popular fields. 

 

I met one company that made game hacks for single player games. Cheat menus like tons of money for Witcher and stuff. That's using cheat engine and C/c++ I think. 

 

If you want to get into research, there's computational programming for chemistry and physics and stuff, mostly python to my knowledge but from what I've been told, it's writing code for people that don't know programming and they choose python because they heard it was easy. 

[Wictorian]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

Most jobs are in web related fields. If you like databases, you can learn to use a language with SQL. 

 

I don't know a ton of jobs though. There is app development and swift is definitely a way to go. iPhone customers spend the most money on apps to all other stores.

 

Obviously there is games. If you get really good at algorithms and data structures and any 3d graphics api, you can get a game programming job. 

 

I don't know about other programming fields but data science, (R language) robotics, embedded systems (driver development and other super low level C programming for routers and stuff) 

Those are some popular fields. 

 

I met one company that made game hacks for single player games. Cheat menus like tons of money for Witcher and stuff. That's using cheat engine and C/c++ I think. 

 

If you want to get into research, there's computational programming for chemistry and physics and stuff, mostly python to my knowledge but from what I've been told, it's writing code for people that don't know programming and they choose python because they heard it was easy. 

I don't like game development and app development. Web development is cooler but still not the thing I'm looking for. I aim to get into Faang but idk if this is contradicting with myself. 

 

I would like to get into research however how good are the wages? That's really my main metric. 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Wictorian said:

I don't like game development and app development. Web development is cooler but still not the thing I'm looking for. I aim to get into Faang but idk if this is contradicting with myself. 

 

I would like to get into research however how good are the wages? That's really my main metric. 

 

 

Idk.
Probably depends on the university.

If yours does research, or you see one that does, see what the opportunities are and so on.
You might be able to work for a medical company doing computational science stuff.

 

afaik, "regular" programming (web, apps, games) all start around 40-60k us for juniors, and can go up like 100k for mid level.
That's my baseline in the USA.
In EU, I think they do something like 45~k euros a year but tax takes care of a lot of insurance and stuff.
Idk about asia, africa, or other american countries.

If you want to be rich, look at data science and "dev ops" where dev ops is using AWS and Azure to host programs on servers.

more or less.

[wasab]

8 hours ago, Wictorian said:

I'm not into web development, I just cant deny it is cool. (web apps are useful and not hard to make) 

Front end can be anything that interface with the backend. browser page is favored because of how cross platform and universal and seemless it is(no need to install additional applications) but you can also use desktop applications or iOS/androids apps if on mobile as the front end. If you wanna do Java and use things like javafx and java swing as your gui and fetch data from the server via http, you can do that as well. Also yes, UX and design are a big part of front end that backend developer usually won’t deal with. Luckily, design is usually off-sourced to a graphic designers rather than falling under the the responsibility of a developer most of the time.

 

I don’t know how you can see your backend in action without a front end setup. Would you rather use just postman or curl scripts for testing? That is really boring in my opinion. It is like writing a working game but you never get to play. 
 

Total compensation(this is including bonus) can be anywhere 70k in the middle of nowhere Nebraska to 100k+ starting out (entry level) in big cities like NYC or Silicon Valley. With 10% inflation rate in the USA, data from mere two years ago are all invalid and undervalued the actual market rate so you would always want to look at the higher end range when researching and negotiating.
 

8 hours ago, Wictorian said:

I know Faang asks you leetcode style questions. I know they also ask you a billion more questions. 

 

I don't really get the argument around leetcode. Is the ultimate question to do or not to do leetcode? It doesn't take much time and indeniably helpful, so why not do it anyways?

Yes, do leetcode but don’t obsessed over it. Back in college, I have seen students grind leetcode constantly and obsessed over working for a FAANG all the time. I always roll my eyes and call them faang-sexual for being so narrowly focused but at the rate they are going, they are probably successful.

 

In my opinion, other than a job, leetcode are only done by people who does competitive programming as a hobby. You know, the people who like to compete against others on how quickly they can code up bug free and most efficient algorithm in the shortest time possible? There are actual competition  and championships out there for competitive programmers. For most people, it takes the fun out of programming though.
 

 

[Wictorian]

31 minutes ago, wasab said:

Front end can be anything that interface with the backend. browser page is favored because of how cross platform and universal and seemless it is(no need to install additional applications) but you can also use desktop applications or iOS/androids apps if on mobile as the front end. If you wanna do Java and use things like javafx and java swing as your gui and fetch data from the server via http, you can do that as well. Also yes, UX and design are a big part of front end that backend developer usually won’t deal with. Luckily, design is usually off-sourced to a graphic designers rather than falling under the the responsibility of a developer most of the time.

 

I don’t know how you can see your backend in action without a front end setup. Would you rather use just postman or curl scripts for testing? That is really boring in my opinion. It is like writing a working game but you never get to play. 
 

Total compensation(this is including bonus) can be anywhere 70k in the middle of nowhere Nebraska to 100k+ starting out in big cities like NYC or Silicon Valley. With 10% inflation rate in the USA, data from mere two years ago are all invalid and undervalued the actual market rate so you would always want to look at the higher end range when researching and negotiating.
 

Yes, do leetcode but don’t obsessed over it. Back in college, I have seen students grind leetcode constantly and obsessed over working for a FAANG all the time. I always roll my eyes and call them faang-sexual for being so narrowly focused but at the rate they are going, they are probably successful.

 

In my opinion, other than a job, leetcode are only done by people who does competitive programming as a hobby. You know, the people who like to compete against others on how quickly they can code up bug free and most efficient algorithm in the shortest time possible? There are actual competition  and championships out there for competitive programmers. For most people, it takes the fun out of programming though.
 

 

About the leetcode section. I think ir is not very possible to get obsessed with leetcode, I like doing a few questions a day. I like solving porblems but I'm not a masochist.But I am certainly Faang sexual. Just for the money.

[wasab]

9 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

About the leetcode section. I think ir is not very possible to get obsessed with leetcode, I like doing a few questions a day. I like solving porblems but I'm not a masochist.But I am certainly Faang sexual. Just for the money.

Do note, faang is more than just leetcode. It is only one out of the four/five rounds of interviews. There is behavioral portion, the system design portion, and in some cases another portion with external third party consultants who are not even members of the company you applied for. You can be legitimate great at the leetcode questions but bomb others.

you do need some months, or weeks to prepare for it at the minimum.

 

anyways, I wish you luck. Leetcode does not necessarily mark you as good software engineer but does help you get placed into top tier companies. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

About the leetcode section. I think ir is not very possible to get obsessed with leetcode, I like doing a few questions a day. I like solving porblems but I'm not a masochist.But I am certainly Faang sexual. Just for the money.

If you want to be rich for less work, finance and business majors make more money than programmers.

If you like coding though, then yeah shoot for the moon, you can still land on the space station.

[cmndr]

18 hours ago, Wictorian said:

For me it is everything. Not that I care about money that much but what is the point of working then? 

Let's assume you don't need fancy things like private jets and you want a reasonably comfortable life.

The difference between making $300,000 a year and $150,000 a year is that you only need to work about half as much before you retire.

I'd argue 2 years that you enjoy beat 1 year where you're miserable if "retire" means semi-retire where you still do SOME stuff to pass time.