Canadian Bill C-11

[Pitboy64]

Not sure if this is the correct section for this, it is an odd subject for this particular forum.
No, its not tech at all, but it will probably have a massive impact on LTT, as a Youtube content creator in Canada,
regarding a Canadian Parliament bill that could severely impact the Youtube algorithm for channel's like LTT's.

If moderators feel that this subject is worthy of a more viewable location than the Off Topic section, they can move it elsewhere,
the argument being, that if this bill becomes law and is poorly implemented, it could seriously affect LTT as a whole, so is worthy of a more visible discussion thread.

Bill C-11 ... The Canadian government's online streaming legislation

Quickly stated, Bill C-11, aims to level the playing field so that streaming services such as Youtube, Netflix, Amazon Prime and Spotify will fall under some of the rules that apply to traditional broadcasters, including a requirement to contribute to the creation of Canadian content. The Canadian Radio, Television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) will oversee the implementation of the new rules under the legislation.

In other words, for those not accustomed to our Canadian CRTC CanCom rules, the govt has regulations that require a 'certifiable' level of Canadian content, for historic media producers; tv, movies, radio etc.  Basically, its the Canadian government telling Canadians what they can watch and listen to ... period, and these laws have been on the books for many decades.  This bill updates the requirements to include streaming services. 

The effect for Youtube channels like LTT's,  will be that the Canadian government will require Youtube to limit access to content that does not 'reach the bar of Canadian content', to Canadian viewers.  Within Canada, channels like LTT's ... which does not focus on Canadian content, but a non territorial, non regional subject like technology, may be severely affected if the CRTC feels that there is not enough 'Canadian content'.   Because of how the Youtube algorithms work, it is unknown how this limitation will affect outgoing Canadian to international viewers.

 

There is the possibility (and most likely) that the CRTC may see LTT (or LMG) Canadian ownership and staff presenting of content from Canada, may be enough to skirt concerns ... but we dont know that.  The CRTC may decide that the technology reviewed needs to be Canadian as well.  That is silly ... yes, but in the end the problem is we just. Dont. Know. what they will do, they will figure that out after the legislation is passed. 

 

Not knowing a lot more about it before the upcoming parliament vote that will turn it into law, is simply scary.

Citations:

 

An article on the legislation
https://newsofcanada.net/the-liberals-law-on-online-streaming-generates-a-polarized-reaction-at-hearings-in-the-parliamentary-committee/

For a lot more info on this, I suggest watching a piece by J.J. McCullough, the ONLY Canadian Youtube creator called by the Canadian Cultural Heritage Committee hearings this week.
And I am curious about forum users ... and Linus' hot take on this.

Discuss.

 

 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

You know what, I feel there aren't enough Canadian players playing for Canadian NHL Teams. Why don't the Government impose bills to make General Manager's across the country make sure their roster consists of X% of Canadians? Darn American teams stealing all of our talent grr /s 

[Ababba]

How would you even enforce such a thing when there are no time slot constraints. This just sounds like a way to make YouTube give money to legacy media companies.

[dalekphalm]

In general, I really don't see the problem.

 

For starters, I doubt this would affect YouTube, as it's a user-generated site (the same way it probably wouldn't affect Facebook videos, or Instagram, etc).

 

But, for the likes of Netflix, etc - I have zero problem with a requirement that a base level of Canadian content is available on the platform. Also consider that what is "Canadian content" is often very broad. It doesn't specifically mean they need to "make a show about Canadians or about Canada".

 

LMG would 100% not be affected by this bill. The fact that they are a nearly 100% Canadian studio, they're pretty much the gold standard of what this kind of bill is hoping to encourage.

 

Also, no, it won't be based on how much each video is actually viewed. It'll likely be a straight percentage. Example: Netflix.ca catalogue must contain 0.5% Canadian content (or whatever defined percentage). This would be a mixture of TV Shows, movies and documentaries that take place in Canada or feature Canadian culture, but also a mix of shows, movies, etc, that are *produced* in Canada and feature Canadian actors, production crew, etc.

 

Many Hollywood movies and TV shows, for example, qualify as Canadian content already because of the fact that they were mostly filmed in Toronto or Vancouver, or used a Canadian production company (example: A *lot* of pop-culture/geek tv shows), etc.

 

Encouraging the Canadian film industry, and encouraging Canadian culture, are both good things, imo. They don't force the platforms to produce too high of a percentage for it to be negative.

 

As for the CanCon fee, yeah no problems there either, though they may need to tweak the "points" system to work in a digital ecosystem like streaming.

 

Is the bill perfect? No. But the concept of this bill is not something I'm opposed to in general.

 

I would support amendments to the bill that make stronger exemptions for user-uploaded content though.

[Arika]

2 hours ago, Pitboy64 said:

aims to level the playing field so that streaming services such as Youtube, Netflix, Amazon Prime and Spotify will fall under some of the rules that apply to traditional broadcasters, including a requirement to contribute to the creation of Canadian content.

Um, these companies don't say "we don't want canadian content creators". the playing field is already level, the opportunity is there for anyone to make whatever content they like.

 

If i became a film-maker/youtuber/whatever content creator and the Australian government told me that x% of my content has to be about Australia, i would tell them to fuck right off.

[dalekphalm]

4 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Um, these companies don't say "we don't want canadian content creators". the playing field is already level, the opportunity is there for anyone to make whatever content they like.

 

If i became a film-maker/youtuber/whatever content creator and the Australian government told me that x% of my content has to be about Australia, i would tell them to fuck right off.

They're not telling you as a film-maker that you need to make a certain percentage of Australian (or in this case, Canadian) content.

 

They're saying the platform that you post to, has to. Netflix, in this case, must ensure that a certain percentage of Canadian content is on their platform. If they already meet the minimum requirements (which Netflix very well might already, given stuff like Trailer Park Boys, etc) they wouldn't need to produce anything else.

 

But if Netflix is a bit shy, they might need to produce something Canadian, or buy the rights to some Canadian content.

[Arika]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

They're saying the platform that you post to, has to. Netflix, in this case, must ensure that a certain percentage of Canadian content is on their platform. If they already meet the minimum requirements (which Netflix very well might already, given stuff like Trailer Park Boys, etc) they wouldn't need to produce anything else.

ok, let run with this.

 

World population: 8Billion

Canadan Population: 38Million

Canadians make up 0.0475% of the world's population.

 

so on a global platform like Netflix (or for argument's sake, youtube as well), what if there isn't enough Canadian content being created to meet what ever this required percentage is? They just have to keep removing other country's content (thereby removing consumer choice) just to have the overall percentage of the Canadian content be higher?

 

This is something i don't agree with.

 

Hell look at this quote from the article:

Quote

“If we do not care how our stories are told, who gets to tell them, and how Canadian audiences get access to these stories, it will all be decisions made by foreign technology giants, million-dollar companies that have actually crashed. down on our cultural couch for almost a decade, without paying anything for the structures and systems that will allow Canadians to tell their own stories, ”said Ms. Boltman

replace "Canadian" with "American" and it sounds exactly like a Donald Trump tweet.

[Ultraforce]

7 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

They're not telling you as a film-maker that you need to make a certain percentage of Australian (or in this case, Canadian) content.

 

They're saying the platform that you post to, has to. Netflix, in this case, must ensure that a certain percentage of Canadian content is on their platform. If they already meet the minimum requirements (which Netflix very well might already, given stuff like Trailer Park Boys, etc) they wouldn't need to produce anything else.

 

But if Netflix is a bit shy, they might need to produce something Canadian, or buy the rights to some Canadian content.

Also I've not properly read through it, for people who do want to properly read through it here is the actual bill which has only started being debated in the senate and is in committee in the house of commons. But I imagine like with music and CanCon it 's multiaspect test as for music Canadian content isn't solely based on musicians being Canadian but can also be from producers and the location that the music was created. Like I think there's a bunch of shows that meet CanCon requirements just because of the filming and work done in Vancouver.

 

[Ultraforce]

7 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Hell look at this quote from the article:

replace "Canadian" with "American" and it sounds exactly like a Donald Trump tweet.

The difference is Canada is a country with around 1/10th of the USA's population, where the USA is the only country with a land border. For a variety of reasons it is in the best interest of the government and for the citizenry as well to have a distinct culture separate from that of the USA. I don't know if there's a great example other then maybe something like New Zealand vs Australia where having government support to prevent the smaller country's culture from being encompassed by the larger country's culture makes sense.

You've got a country with 4.23 % of the world's population right under you which makes it understandable to be cautious when sleeping with the elephant that is America, since if you don't keep yourself somewhat distinct it's very likely that the effects of the twitch and grunts might cause some problems. Canada isn't the USA and CanCon is to help make sure that Canadians aren't stuck going to New York,  LA to create cultural stuff and that they can but aren't at a disadvantage of opportunities to make a name for themselves that would let them get deals with American companies.

You've got stuff like Arthur, Max & Ruby, Total Drama Island on the side of kids TV shows that are Canadian as well as more teen/adult stuff like Trailer Park Boys, Letterkenny, Schitt's Creek. Films by people such as David Cronenburg, the canadian sex comedy-drama french film The Decline of the American Empire. Monsieur Lazhar was nominated for best foreign language film at the oscars back in 2011. With Music you have stuff like Rush, Bryan Adams, Alanis Morissette, Celine Dion, Shania Twain, Avril Lavigne, Drake, The Weeknd, The Tragically Hip, Three Days Grace, Bare Naked Ladies, Simp Plan, Nickleback, Arcade Fire, and Leonard Cohen with Cohen's resurgence in the 90s in popularity alongside stuff with Hallelujah is associated with CanCon as if there were no limits on how much American and British music there was you wouldn't have Canadian trendsetting radio stations interviewing and playing music by a guy in his 50s who had been popular for a bit in the 1960s.

CANCon is part of how support is given to the arts and you don't have to like it but I and I imagine quite a few others would say that Canadian Content rules are good both for Canadians and for the world at large since it helps amplify the voice of a country similar to how Eurovision does in Europe.

[dalekphalm]

43 minutes ago, Arika S said:

ok, let run with this.

 

World population: 8Billion

Canadan Population: 38Million

Canadians make up 0.0475% of the world's population.

 

so on a global platform like Netflix (or for argument's sake, youtube as well), what if there isn't enough Canadian content being created to meet what ever this required percentage is? They just have to keep removing other country's content (thereby removing consumer choice) just to have the overall percentage of the Canadian content be higher?

You have to remember that Netflix's catalogue is already regional.

 

Canada has a different library from the US, from Australia, from the UK, etc.

 

This is not a matter of Netflix not carrying some particular series because they need to make a certain amount of Canadian content. While yes, it could mean they decide to support one series over another - they make those decisions all the time anyway.

43 minutes ago, Arika S said:

This is something i don't agree with.

Protecting your own culture, in a manner that still allows the freedom to immerse yourself in foreign cultures, is worth a cost, imo. And the cost they're asking for, is really not that bad.

43 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Hell look at this quote from the article:

replace "Canadian" with "American" and it sounds exactly like a Donald Trump tweet.

I beg to disagree, but that's a personal subjective opinion.

36 minutes ago, Ultraforce said:

Also I've not properly read through it, for people who do want to properly read through it here is the actual bill which has only started being debated in the senate and is in committee in the house of commons. But I imagine like with music and CanCon it 's multiaspect test as for music Canadian content isn't solely based on musicians being Canadian but can also be from producers and the location that the music was created. Like I think there's a bunch of shows that meet CanCon requirements just because of the filming and work done in Vancouver.

Bills at this stage often go through a lot of reviews, proposals, and amendments. It's final structure will likely look different anyway.

 

If anything, the CanCon definition needs to be expanded, because others have noted that some shows that should count, apparently don't (such as apparently Handmaid's Tale, which regularly films in Canada).

 

That doesn't mean this proposed law is wrong. It just means the proposed law needs to be properly crafted.

[Ultraforce]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

Bills at this stage often go through a lot of reviews, proposals, and amendments. It's final structure will likely look different anyway.

 

If anything, the CanCon definition needs to be expanded, because others have noted that some shows that should count, apparently don't (such as apparently Handmaid's Tale, which regularly films in Canada).

 

That doesn't mean this proposed law is wrong. It just means the proposed law needs to be properly crafted.

I'm aware it's just as the original poster linked to an article which doesn't include anything of the actual bill that it would be worth indicating what the Bill actually states and that it's still very much a work in progress.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Ultraforce said:

I'm aware it's just as the original poster linked to an article which doesn't include anything of the actual bill that it would be worth indicating what the Bill actually states and that it's still very much a work in progress.

Oh I agree with you there.

 

One can always read through the legislative text of the bill in it's currently proposed form, but that kind of text is often hard to read if you're not used to legal language and formatting.

[Pitboy64]

It is an interesting and potentially complex whack of variables.
A good discussion overall.

... and no ... I dont actually think LTT would be affected for the reasons discussed, but its a fair point that without that level of detail in the original legislation, we simply dont know what thew CRTC will do or how they will interpret the legislation ... and they have a long history of odd decisions that affect the many, and because of bureaucracy, it doesnt get fixed for years.

Moreover (and why I included his video in the original post) JJ does discuss governmental over reach, and the appropriateness of Can con rules in this day and age.  With the advent of Canadian viewers having access to so much more international content than back in the og CRTC TV days, do the rules still apply, and even if it may make sense for Canadian Netflix content, does this transfer to Youtube?

To say 'beware' is reasonable.

[charliebros]

Honestly, it doesn't matter at all if LTT and all the LMG channels are not affected by this, this is a serious matter that should be more public and polemic, a topic that must be brought to the most people possible, and if there's someone that can bring heat to this in order to protect all their canadian friends, is Linus

[Heliian]

3 hours ago, charliebros said:

Honestly, it doesn't matter at all if LTT and all the LMG channels are not affected by this, this is a serious matter that should be more public and polemic, a topic that must be brought to the most people possible, and if there's someone that can bring heat to this in order to protect all their canadian friends, is Linus

The whole point is to protect Canadian content.  Without it, we would just be awash in American programming.  

I think the bill will actually be a good thing.  

[ToboRobot]

6 minutes ago, Heliian said:

The whole point is to protect Canadian content.  Without it, we would just be awash in American programming.  

I think the bill will actually be a good thing.  

The governments stated aims, and the whole point of a law can be entirely different.

 

[SimplyChunk]

On 6/5/2022 at 1:32 AM, Ababba said:

How would you even enforce such a thing when there are no time slot constraints. This just sounds like a way to make YouTube give money to legacy media companies.

Well...They're hurting.  All the old style TV and Radio creators are.  Now they're leaning on their old friends in the government for a helping hand.  We all knew there would be blood as 'The internet' becomes the dominating server of all our media needs.  Look at what happened to the music industry

[Ultraforce]

3 hours ago, charliebros said:

Honestly, it doesn't matter at all if LTT and all the LMG channels are not affected by this, this is a serious matter that should be more public and polemic, a topic that must be brought to the most people possible, and if there's someone that can bring heat to this in order to protect all their canadian friends, is Linus

CanCon like legislation is the only reason Linus has his current job. The whole existence of Netlink Computer Inc.(NCIX) is related to stuff to try and have there be Canadian retailers, and it's unlikely that there would be the flexibility that lead to LTT's creation with Best Buy or Future Shop which was owned by Best Buy by the time he had a job.

At the end of the day I think CanCon is a good idea and given the copyright and license stupidity that exists I don't see why it would be considered unreasonable for a region to ask for a certain percentage of content to be made following their guidelines. I don't think it will necessarily have as much of an effect as in film, television, and music, but it's not going to hurt anyone.

23 minutes ago, SimplyChunk said:

Well...They're hurting.  All the old style TV and Radio creators are.  Now they're leaning on their old friends in the government for a helping hand.  We all knew there would be blood as 'The internet' becomes the dominating server of all our media needs.  Look at what happened to the music industry

I really don't know why you would think that, since you don't exactly explain what radio creators are but if by that you mean radio shows the rules on talk radio have already been rather ambiguous and most of the lack of American talk radio came from failing to meet broadcast standards such as Howard Stern's comments lead to stations being reprimanded. Other than that in the 2000s American politics weren't of interest to Canadians and the more well known American talk radio politics people tended to charge high fees. The radio stations themselves are largely owned by conglomerates such as Bell Media and Stingray Group where the radio is only a small part of their portfolio. Outside of independent ones most well known Canadian podcasts are by CBC which doesn't really consider CanCon as it's been exclusively Canadian content since the late 90s.

[Heliian]

41 minutes ago, SimplyChunk said:

Now they're leaning on their old friends in the government

Cancon has been enforced on these platforms for ages. 

[nE0n1nja]

Hi, I'm not from Canada but I just saw this video and got worried that it might impact the LTT channel in some way.
 

WHAT EVEN IS BILL C-11?

Also known as the Online Streaming Act, Bill C-11 gives the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC*) regulatory powers over all audiovisual content on the Internet, including content on platforms.

(*The CRTC is the public organization that currently regulates traditional Canadian arenas like broadcasting and telecommunications.)

 

HOW DOES IT IMPACT CREATORS?

TL;DR: Digital-first creators could receive less revenue and less exposure.
 

 

The link that's mentioned in the video: Fix Bill C-11 – Digital First Canada
Another link: Fix Bill C-11: Hands off our content! (openmedia.org)

[HoldThisW]

"WHAT EVEN IS BILL C-11?
Also known as the Online Streaming Act, Bill C-11 gives the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC*) regulatory powers over all audiovisual content on the Internet, including content on platforms.

(*The CRTC is the public organization that currently regulates traditional Canadian arenas like broadcasting and telecommunications.)

HOW DOES IT IMPACT CREATORS?
TL;DR: Digital-first creators could receive less revenue and less exposure."

 

More resources:

 

https://digitalfirstcanada.ca/bills/fix-c11/

 

[whm1974]

And just how are they going to enforce this outside of Canada? AFAIK YouTube is more or less US-Based, with a number of foreign creators.

 

[HoldThisW]

16 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

And just how are they going to enforce this outside of Canada? AFAIK YouTube is more or less US-Based, with a number of foreign creators.

 

This will specifically affect Canadian creators. This bill will allow the Canadian government to control user-generated content and profit from it. Since LTT is a Canadian entity, I thought this will be relevant to post here.

[Imbadatnames]

39 minutes ago, HoldThisW said:

This will specifically affect Canadian creators. This bill will allow the Canadian government to control user-generated content and profit from it. Since LTT is a Canadian entity, I thought this will be relevant to post here.

I think you’ll find they’re now based in the British Virgin Islands

[Ultraforce]

1 hour ago, HoldThisW said:

"WHAT EVEN IS BILL C-11?
Also known as the Online Streaming Act, Bill C-11 gives the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC*) regulatory powers over all audiovisual content on the Internet, including content on platforms.

(*The CRTC is the public organization that currently regulates traditional Canadian arenas like broadcasting and telecommunications.)

 

CRTC already has regulatory powers over social media since 1999. Also, it's not for censorship, it's mostly focused on CanCon, and trying to get the CRTC to do its job, which it's been reticent to do.