Ryzen 7 5800X3D + NZXT Kraken X63 (280mm AIO) = high temps?

[the1337moderate]

Just got the new 5800X3D installed tonight and upgraded from a Hyper 212 Evo to a NZXT Kraken X63. The temps seem way off from what I would expect them to be.

• ambient 23C
• idle 48C
• load 87C-90C

If I put the CPU under a load (Aida64 stress test) it'll go up to 90C instantly and stay there, then after about 30 seconds it's come down 87C and fluctuate between 87C-90C, even after equalization of the loop. NZXT CAM shows the coolant temp goes up to 43C and that's it. The clocks boost up to 4.14GHz on all cores and don't really budge; it never thermal throttles down.

I feel like maybe I have bad mount, or maybe the thermal paste may have been old? I didn't use the stock thermal paste on the X63, I used some Noctua NT-H1 paste from about 9 months ago on the CPU and spread it to full coverage of the CPU's IHS before installing the X63.

It's kind of a pain to disassemble so I'd rather avoid remounting the block/pump unless that ends up being the general consensus. 

I also noticed that the cold plate on the X63 isn't exactly flat when I wiped off the factory thermal paste, it had a texture of like machining marks radiating in circles from the center. Maybe I just got a poor QC cold plate from the factory and I need to lap it down flat? If I'm going to have to remount it, I'll have to order some new thermal paste. What's the preferred brand type out there?

 

[dizmo]

Pretty sure that's normal for AMD CPUs.

[LollerManiac]

3 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Pretty sure that's normal for AMD CPUs.

Yeah I agree that's pretty normal, especially for that chip which tends to be a bit of an inferno.

[the1337moderate]

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

Pretty sure that's normal for AMD CPUs.

Previously I had a Ryzen 5 3600 with that Hyper 212 Evo. It would idle around 36C and never went above 72C. I get that the 3600 is a 65W TDP and the 5800X3D is a 105W TDP so it'll put out more heat. This is the first AIO that I've ever used and it seems like a 280mm isn't enough or something's not right.

[LollerManiac]

7 minutes ago, the1337moderate said:

Previously I had a Ryzen 5 3600 with that Hyper 212 Evo. It would idle around 36C and never went above 72C. I get that the 3600 is a 65W TDP and the 5800X3D is a 105W TDP so it'll put out more heat. This is the first AIO that I've ever used and it seems like a 280mm isn't enough or something's not right.

The 3600 is a very low end desktop chip that is pretty easily tamed by near anything.  The 5800X3D just runs hotter and the AIO really just doesn't have that much of a cooling benefit compared to the Hyper 212 EVO which is a pretty good air cooler.  That chip is just really hot and it's to be expected in my opinion.

[RONOTHAN##]

13 minutes ago, the1337moderate said:

Previously I had a Ryzen 5 3600 with that Hyper 212 Evo. It would idle around 36C and never went above 72C. I get that the 3600 is a 65W TDP and the 5800X3D is a 105W TDP so it'll put out more heat. This is the first AIO that I've ever used and it seems like a 280mm isn't enough or something's not right.

5800X3D is a very hot CPU. It's not the power draw that makes it hard to cool like it is on Intel CPUs (though even they suffer from this a bit), it's the fact that its very thermally dense and has a lot of thermal resistance. The 5800X was already notorious for being a PITA to cool, the 5800X3D just makes that even worse since the 3D vCache acts as a thermal insulator to the CPU. Going up to a 360mm AIO is advisable for one of those CPUs because they just have a cooler cold plate and thus have an easier time extracting heat. It's not like the chip actually need the cooling capacity, it's just that the extra cooling capacity means you can extract the heat from that chip much easier.

 

That said, 90C under full load for one of those chips really isn't that bad, and I wouldn't put the money into investing in a better cooler.

[dizmo]

18 minutes ago, the1337moderate said:

Previously I had a Ryzen 5 3600 with that Hyper 212 Evo. It would idle around 36C and never went above 72C. I get that the 3600 is a 65W TDP and the 5800X3D is a 105W TDP so it'll put out more heat. This is the first AIO that I've ever used and it seems like a 280mm isn't enough or something's not right.

My dad has a 5800x, runs just as hot. It's also under water. It's also one of the huge reasons I went with a 5900 instead of a 5900x in my new build. It's just a hot chip.

[the1337moderate]

So the general consensus seems to be that the CPU just runs way hotter than I anticipated.

I guess the next thing to inquire about is how to make the situation better. I'd rather not go with a custom loop as I'd have to buy a new monoblock and new reservoirs; the koolance pumps, primochill tubing, and EK fittings  and the 480mm radiator I have are from like 2012 from my old Phenom II X6 build so I might even need a new pump and new o-rings for the fittings. I've done the custom loop game, it's a money pit that I don't want to go into again.

I can't fit anything larger than a 280mm AIO in this case. Getting a new case and/or a bigger AIO is a little out of the question right now. I kinda spent all of my computer budget on the new CPU and AIO cooler as it was supposed to be the last upgrade for the next 3-4 years and everything else on this computer is pretty much maxed out (Gigabyte Aorus X570, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4-3600, 2x1TB samsung 980s, EVGA 1300W G2).


Would there be any benefit to lapping down the cold plate on the AIO? Lap down the IHS on the CPU?  Maybe look at getting some liquid metal tim instead of a regular thermal paste?

[jaslion]

35 minutes ago, the1337moderate said:

So the general consensus seems to be that the CPU just runs way hotter than I anticipated.

I guess the next thing to inquire about is how to make the situation better. I'd rather not go with a custom loop as I'd have to buy a new monoblock and new reservoirs; the koolance pumps, primochill tubing, and EK fittings  and the 480mm radiator I have are from like 2012 from my old Phenom II X6 build so I might even need a new pump and new o-rings for the fittings. I've done the custom loop game, it's a money pit that I don't want to go into again.

I can't fit anything larger than a 280mm AIO in this case. Getting a new case and/or a bigger AIO is a little out of the question right now. I kinda spent all of my computer budget on the new CPU and AIO cooler as it was supposed to be the last upgrade for the next 3-4 years and everything else on this computer is pretty much maxed out (Gigabyte Aorus X570, RX 6900XT, 32GB DDR4-3600, 2x1TB samsung 980s, EVGA 1300W G2).


Would there be any benefit to lapping down the cold plate on the AIO? Lap down the IHS on the CPU?  Maybe look at getting some liquid metal tim instead of a regular thermal paste?

I don't see a need to make the situation better here. It's within it's limits and will run fine for the next decade or so.

 

What case do you have? Might just be an airflow issue.

 

As for lapping maybe a degree or 2 at best. Worst case nothing if they are both already very flat.

[RONOTHAN##]

33 minutes ago, the1337moderate said:

Would there be any benefit to lapping down the cold plate on the AIO?

Very little. Lapping both the CPU and cooler only really makes sense when going sub zero where pastes are likely to crack. At ambient temps it's maybe a 1-2C difference, and just not worth the trouble. 

 

36 minutes ago, the1337moderate said:

Maybe look at getting some liquid metal tim instead of a regular thermal paste?

That can help a bit, but personally it's a bit more risk than I'd like since if you spill it, your board is dead. I wouldn't personally trust it in a vertical orientation like you'd have in most PC cases. 

 

 

Honestly, I'd just run it as is. Even on a custom loop with a massive radiator you aren't gonna get it below ~80. Do some curve optimizations and call it a day. These chips are designed to run hot and as long as the core clocks stay high, it's fine.

[SavageNeo]

1 hour ago, LollerManiac said:

The 3600 is a very low end desktop chip tha

what do you consider low end, ryzen 5 3600 is basically i5 10400f, do you call that very low end cpu? 

[NorKris]

Case, Casefans and placement matters too 

[Tankios]

This is the temp range I found online, it seems your cooler is just doing the average

 

Quote

The Kraken X63 is a high-end, all-in-one CPU liquid cooler from NZXT. We put it to the test by running a stress test on an overclocked 8-core AMD Ryzen 5800X3D processor. The results were impressive, with the CPU temperature remaining under 70 degrees Celsius even when the system was pushed to its limits. This demonstrates that the Kraken X63 is capable of keeping even the most powerful CPUs cool under heavy load.

You can read the detailed test of X63 with 5800x3d from mpros too.

[Queen Chrysalis]

On 4/22/2022 at 12:59 AM, LollerManiac said:

The 3600 is a very low end desktop chip that is pretty easily tamed by near anything.  The 5800X3D just runs hotter and the AIO really just doesn't have that much of a cooling benefit compared to the Hyper 212 EVO which is a pretty good air cooler.  That chip is just really hot and it's to be expected in my opinion.

>low end

really?  It's a 2-year old chip.  You know games are still coming out on PS4 and XBONE with 90% of gamers being totally fine with their performance and those bulldozer cores are literally half the speed of Zen 2. 

 

Not to mention most people's laptops still have refreshes of the same skylake dual core mobile i5 that's been around for more than half a decade now.

[CeeD_911]

On 4/22/2022 at 7:43 AM, the1337moderate said:

Just got the new 5800X3D installed tonight and upgraded from a Hyper 212 Evo to a NZXT Kraken X63. The temps seem way off from what I would expect them to be.

• ambient 23C
• idle 48C
• load 87C-90C

If I put the CPU under a load (Aida64 stress test) it'll go up to 90C instantly and stay there, then after about 30 seconds it's come down 87C and fluctuate between 87C-90C, even after equalization of the loop. NZXT CAM shows the coolant temp goes up to 43C and that's it. The clocks boost up to 4.14GHz on all cores and don't really budge; it never thermal throttles down.

I feel like maybe I have bad mount, or maybe the thermal paste may have been old? I didn't use the stock thermal paste on the X63, I used some Noctua NT-H1 paste from about 9 months ago on the CPU and spread it to full coverage of the CPU's IHS before installing the X63.

It's kind of a pain to disassemble so I'd rather avoid remounting the block/pump unless that ends up being the general consensus. 

I also noticed that the cold plate on the X63 isn't exactly flat when I wiped off the factory thermal paste, it had a texture of like machining marks radiating in circles from the center. Maybe I just got a poor QC cold plate from the factory and I need to lap it down flat? If I'm going to have to remount it, I'll have to order some new thermal paste. What's the preferred brand type out there?

 

Lol. Basically signed up to reply to you (but I've seen vids from Linus himself for well over a decade). This was what I wrote on a somewhat competing site:

 

"Got my brand new (what else) 5800x3d as an upgrade to my previous 3700x. Extremely happy with the performance result so far, which is mostly testing Red dead redemption 2 and TW: Warhammer 2, in addition to a few 3dmark tests. What an improvement.

However, using the stock cooler for the 3700x, the AMD Wraith Prism led, I noticed that the cpu started to reach some seriously hot temperatures in RDR2. That's with a gpu load of 100% on my RTX 3080. When it reached around 85c I didn't really feel comfortable anymore, so I went out and got myself a Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4 yesterday.

As my ram chips dont allow for a push-push (middle fan) config, I tried going for a pull-pull config for the Noctua, but noticed that temps still get high (above 80c) during load in RDR2. Just a few degrees lower. I swapped to a single fan config for the Noctua, which doesn't make a huge difference, so I believe I'll be sticking with that config."

 

The stupid part is I really didn't pay a lot of attention to the actual core clocks when I used the Wraith cooler. If I did, I believe I would see a radical difference in clock speeds, after swapping to the NH-D15. Just seems like the x3d WANTS to reach quite high temps, and that is prioritizes speed before temperatures. After running aida64 for a while, in a moderately hot room (got bad ventilation here), I can reach 91c. During Red dead redemption 2 I can reach 85, but then the 3080 is running constantly at 100% usage. Seems we have the exact same temps during load and idle.

 

Anyhow, just wanted to thank you for saving me the trouble of trying to ask the customer-unfriendly store I purchased the NH-D15 to let me return it in favour of a Kraken X63. After reading your post I feel that we encounter the exact same disappointment in purchasing expensive cooling equipment that FEELS like it doesn't make a big difference, and that swapping to a Kraken won't solve my problems. I think getting a bigger cabinet with better airflow will do more of a difference in my case (pun intended). Still using a Fractal design R something that is frankly made for audio production purposes and sound damping (with all the damping removed at this point).

 

Have one on me.

[Guest]

Lol.

 

8 core flagship processors tend to be kinda on the hot side.

 

Why this trend hasn't caught on through the years has me baffled. I mean all the way back to X58 and i7 extreme chips and even the 6400+ AMD dual core flag ship was hot as fuck. Pardon the english....

 

Most of the time, top AIO and for that money, spend a little more and build a custom loop. 

 

Also, delidding and direct die was invented because of flagship processors.

 

Yes fellas and ladies. 5800X3D or even just the X will be a challenge to cool.

 

Think of it as BTU per hour. 

220w = 750BTU/Hr.

That's a space heater and all condensed to a 40mm/square single surface area to pull thermals from, with the addition of transistor density and single core complex or CCX. This would be a cooler chip if AMD ran 2 CCX with 4 cores each, but they where able to maximize the TDP envelope with a single CCX.

 

Jah? It runs hot! It always will. 85c and no throttle, just keep gaming till it does. Then address your cooling or lack thereof. 

[CeeD_911]

Thing is, it's hard to keep updated on everything, especially throughout the process of getting two kids who suck up your life energy and time like hungry wolves. I can't even remember the name of all of my previous cpu's and gpu's, and yes. Times have changed.

 

Regarding overclocking I was most active before and after I got my 4790k. Back then throttling was a big no no, not an expected part of the way the cpu's would work to maximize performance. Looking at overclock threads regarding the 5800x3d now, I basically don't understand squat in terms of what they are talking about. Everything has changed. 

 

So yes, I now feel like a dinosaur.

 

Anyhow, the NH-D15 SE should be adequate. Will just enjoy my all in all great setup, and stop worrying about it methinks. 

[JuztBe]

@the1337moderateHow's the situation right now? Found any ways of improving it?

What CAM performance profile you were running? Did pump and fans reached 100% RPM? 

[Brett Grieves]

Ive gone from 5800x to 5800x3d. Im running Artic Liquid Freezer II 360mm... Had this cooler on both CPUs. The 5800x3d runs WAY hotter, 13 degrees more in a cinebench r23 run. I thought I had applied too little thermal paste to start with but no, it just a hot little chip. 

 

[freeagent]

At TPU I recommended an FC140 to a guy with 5800X3D. He was loading in the 90s with R23, the cooler brought his load temps down to 80. Today my Ultra 120 Extreme will arrive, and will probably Install it tomorrow. AIO isn’t really that good imo. There are a couple of good ones but I don’t need to run them.

[NorKris]

26 minutes ago, freeagent said:

At TPU I recommended an FC140 to a guy with 5800X3D. He was loading in the 90s with R23, the cooler brought his load temps down to 80. Today my Ultra 120 Extreme will arrive, and will probably Install it tomorrow. AIO isn’t really that good imo. There are a couple of good ones but I don’t need to run them.

are we going to get  stock fans vs blownaway air flow  numbers? 

[freeagent]

28 minutes ago, NorKris said:

are we going to get  stock fans vs blownaway air flow  numbers? 

Probably stock since I only have one 120mm iPPC lol

[NorKris]

2 minutes ago, freeagent said:

Probably stock since I only have one 120mm iPPC lol

[freeagent]

11 minutes ago, NorKris said:

Me too man, me too

[Stea1th]

On a Kraken x73 360mm, I’m getting 89-90* running cinebench. 

however when gaming I’m not seeing those temps, I just got it today and I was worried about the temps but it seems normal. Running god of war on my 3090 4K with everything maxed it barely went passed 60. I’ll try a few games but regardless I’m happy with the performance compared to my 2600x