Budget Mac device to learn OSX?

[Colty]

I work in IT and have limited OSX experience. I know a handful of simple things, but I'd like to feel confident when presented with a Mac and also be able to apply for jobs that require working knowledge of OSX.

Yes, everything is a google search away, but I'd like to become familiar. I have a 3060 so Hackintosh is off the table.

I've been looking at older Mac Mini's, but I wasn't sure if there was a good secondary option. I'm just looking for something that can browse the web and not be so dog slow that I avoid using it for that reason. 

I saw this, it fits in what I'm willing to spend, but I'm open to other ideas/options. This one supposedly can run Monterey (which is important to me), but I also don't want to be pushed aside once OSX 13.0 is rolled out. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274252955037?hash=item3fdabffd9d:g:SCUAAOSwx1ReFg3V

EDIT - I also don't want it to be super slow on Monterey. I want "it runs Monterey" not "It runs Monterey***"

[Sauron]

4 minutes ago, Colty said:

I have a 3060 so Hackintosh is off the table.

It might be cheaper for you to get an old AMD card than a full mac...

 

In general the mac used market is awful, people ask inane prices for hardware that I would consider borderline unusable. There's also the option of trying it in a virtual machine though the legality of that depends on your country.

[Colty]

Just now, Sauron said:

It might be cheaper for you to get an old AMD card than a full mac...

 

In general the mac used market is awful, people ask inane prices for hardware that I would consider borderline unusable. There's also the option of trying it in a virtual machine though the legality of that depends on your country.

I'm not concerned about any legality of a VM. If that will work, that'd be great. I guess I assumed if hackintosh direct wouldn't work, that VM wouldn't work either.

An old AMD card is cheaper, but my main machine is also kind of a local file server so I don't want to dual boot or swap out cards. I'll pay a premium for simplicity. 

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, Colty said:

I'm not concerned about any legality of a VM.

The forum rules make me concerned so I have to be careful with my language

1 minute ago, Colty said:

I guess I assumed if hackintosh direct wouldn't work, that VM wouldn't work either.

There are many types of virtual machine, if you want close-to-bare metal performance then you'd need a graphics card to pass through and all that but for a simple tryout regular old vmware or virtualbox can do the trick. They both require a little fiddling to get working with macOS iirc but if your machine is good enough they should do fine.

[berberries]

9 minutes ago, Colty said:

I'm not concerned about any legality of a VM. If that will work, that'd be great. I guess I assumed if hackintosh direct wouldn't work, that VM wouldn't work either.

An old AMD card is cheaper, but my main machine is also kind of a local file server so I don't want to dual boot or swap out cards. I'll pay a premium for simplicity. 

for basic use vmware or virtualbox will do. will take abit of effort to setup but it's free and i believe there was a site which had pre-setup vmware vmdisks you could just download and run. 

 

otherwise i understand why you would want simplicity this being your main machine and local file server, so i'd actually suggest an M1 mac mini if you can spare the budget. mac minis from what i see tend to hold their resale value ridiculously well, so after a year or two of use you could probably sell it for maybe 200 bucks of loss tops. plus with an M1 mac you can learn to setup software which was meant for the x86 platform on M1 which may be something that can come up in an IT job.

[Colty]

7 minutes ago, berberries said:

for basic use vmware or virtualbox will do. will take abit of effort to setup but it's free and i believe there was a site which had pre-setup vmware vmdisks you could just download and run. 

 

otherwise i understand why you would want simplicity this being your main machine and local file server, so i'd actually suggest an M1 mac mini if you can spare the budget. mac minis from what i see tend to hold their resale value ridiculously well, so after a year or two of use you could probably sell it for maybe 200 bucks of loss tops. plus with an M1 mac you can learn to setup software which was meant for the x86 platform on M1 which may be something that can come up in an IT job.

I would love to throw cash at an M1, it's a very interesting platform for sure. But I'm really aiming at $300 or less. Maybe $350 for something that I could trust to keep ticking for a while, but a refurb M1 starts at $600, so effectively double what I'm looking to spend.

[berberries]

6 minutes ago, Colty said:

I would love to throw cash at an M1, it's a very interesting platform for sure. But I'm really aiming at $300 or less. Maybe $350 for something that I could trust to keep ticking for a while, but a refurb M1 starts at $600, so effectively double what I'm looking to spend.

yup it's about balancing the pros and cons of whether its worth spending the cash on. In that case I'd advise you look for a Late 2018 model, most are going for $500-600 (why) but i see some i3 models on auction on ebay for $300 or so with only a couple hours left. Maybe you could take a crack at that. a Late 2018 model will probably get you a few more years of support compared to a late 2014 model.

[NateAteTeen]

If I were you, I would install Linux on a spare drive and try this out: https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX

 

Make sure to enable virtualization on your CPU in your bios though. This has been way less painful experience for me than doing a hackintosh which I did a handful of years ago. 

[Paul Thexton]

I'd definitely throw caution at the idea of trying to do Hackintosh, you're more likely to find yourself learning how to encourage macOS to run on hardware it wasn't intended for rather than learning how to use macOS itself.  An interesting thing to do from a tech/geek point of view for sure, but in terms of upskilling yourself for your job, it's less helpful.

 

If you can find a solution to running it in a VM I'd say that's going to be the least painful option.  

 

Also how long do you think you'll need to get up to speed? If it's something you want to be able to spend a few minutes here & there, then a physical machine or VM will be the way to go, but if you're prepared to book off a week of learning time this looks like it might be a reasonable/cheap option https://www.oakhost.net/try-macos 

[Colty]

8 hours ago, NateAteTeen said:

If I were you, I would install Linux on a spare drive and try this out: https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX

 

Make sure to enable virtualization on your CPU in your bios though. This has been way less painful experience for me than doing a hackintosh which I did a handful of years ago. 

I do have Linux (ubuntu) running on my Plex machine so docker might be a good option. Though I'm still leaning towards VM so I can go back and forth between Windows more easily and VM's are also something I should get more familiar with than just the tinkering I've done with Linux ages ago and ChromeOS. 

[maplepants]

For your budget, there's not going to be many attractive Apple hardware options. Macs hold their value much better than other PCs, which is great for sellers but means that there aren't all that many great steals for buyers.

 

This is a good article about Apple hardware lifespans and since you're looking to learn macOS I'd be careful about getting anything Skylake or older. Even if it supports macOS 12, it might be droped in September.

 

So for your budget I'd say there are two good options for learning macOS.

 

1. A VPS for a few months from Mac Stadium or AWS. 

2. An old Mac Mini that will probably only be a dual core and might be dropped for macOS 13.

3. Hackintosh VM

 

None are ideal, but they'll at least get you far enough to know if you want to save up for an new Mac Mini.

[Ultraforce]

On 4/17/2022 at 1:07 PM, Colty said:

I work in IT and have limited OSX experience. I know a handful of simple things, but I'd like to feel confident when presented with a Mac and also be able to apply for jobs that require working knowledge of OSX.

Yes, everything is a google search away, but I'd like to become familiar. I have a 3060 so Hackintosh is off the table.

I've been looking at older Mac Mini's, but I wasn't sure if there was a good secondary option. I'm just looking for something that can browse the web and not be so dog slow that I avoid using it for that reason. 

I saw this, it fits in what I'm willing to spend, but I'm open to other ideas/options. This one supposedly can run Monterey (which is important to me), but I also don't want to be pushed aside once OSX 13.0 is rolled out. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274252955037?hash=item3fdabffd9d:g:SCUAAOSwx1ReFg3V

EDIT - I also don't want it to be super slow on Monterey. I want "it runs Monterey" not "It runs Monterey***"

I know that a recommendation by Jonathan Horst for some of them he talked about going for refurbished Macs

[BondiBlue]

12 hours ago, Ultraforce said:

I know that a recommendation by Jonathan Horst for some of them he talked about going for refurbished Macs

The cheapest refurbished Mac that Apple sells is still nearly twice the budget OP has, so I don't see how that's an option. 

[Ultraforce]

10 hours ago, BondiBlue said:

The cheapest refurbished Mac that Apple sells is still nearly twice the budget OP has, so I don't see how that's an option. 

Ah, I didn't notice the 300$ budget.

Also am I wrong or is it likely that there would be no options within the OP's budget as won't the next macOS be presumably near the end of the Mac transition to Apple Silicon, so support for macOS 13 might be nonexistent for Intel based Macs.

[BondiBlue]

3 minutes ago, Ultraforce said:

Ah, I didn't notice the 300$ budget.

Also am I wrong or is it likely that there would be no options within the OP's budget as won't the next macOS be presumably near the end of the Mac transition to Apple Silicon, so support for macOS 13 might be nonexistent for Intel based Macs.

Something like a 2018 Mac mini or 2017 MacBook Air would fit the budget, and they're still supported right now. 

[FUIT1985]

On 4/17/2022 at 7:07 PM, Colty said:

I work in IT and have limited OSX experience. I know a handful of simple things, but I'd like to feel confident when presented with a Mac and also be able to apply for jobs that require working knowledge of OSX.

Yes, everything is a google search away, but I'd like to become familiar. I have a 3060 so Hackintosh is off the table.

I've been looking at older Mac Mini's, but I wasn't sure if there was a good secondary option. I'm just looking for something that can browse the web and not be so dog slow that I avoid using it for that reason. 

I saw this, it fits in what I'm willing to spend, but I'm open to other ideas/options. This one supposedly can run Monterey (which is important to me), but I also don't want to be pushed aside once OSX 13.0 is rolled out. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274252955037?hash=item3fdabffd9d:g:SCUAAOSwx1ReFg3V

EDIT - I also don't want it to be super slow on Monterey. I want "it runs Monterey" not "It runs Monterey***"

If you use a hackintosh you already have experience with Mac OS. Buying an old Mac doesn't make sense with the new M1 processors. Look for an entry level model with M1.

[Ultraforce]

7 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

Something like a 2018 Mac mini or 2017 MacBook Air would fit the budget, and they're still supported right now. 

I was thinking of the below quote which might mean that there's nothing within the budget that would meet all of the requirements unless there's a massive deal on used M1 stuff somewhere.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 1:07 PM, Colty said:

but I also don't want to be pushed aside once OSX 13.0 is rolled out. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274252955037?hash=item3fdabffd9d:g:SCUAAOSwx1ReFg3V

EDIT - I also don't want it to be super slow on Monterey. I want "it runs Monterey" not "It runs Monterey***"

 

[BondiBlue]

1 hour ago, Ultraforce said:

I was thinking of the below quote which might mean that there's nothing within the budget that would meet all of the requirements unless there's a massive deal on used M1 stuff somewhere.

Are you talking about the part where Monterey needs to run well? A 2018 mini will run Monterey excellently, even a base model. 

[Paul Thexton]

1 hour ago, Ultraforce said:

Also am I wrong or is it likely that there would be no options within the OP's budget as won't the next macOS be presumably near the end of the Mac transition to Apple Silicon, so support for macOS 13 might be nonexistent for Intel based Macs.

If Apple release a Mac Pro with their own Silicon this year I don't expect macOS 13 to immediately drop support for running on Intel hardware.  Apple haven't actually announced the timeline of when they will no longer ship macOS to run on Intel Macs, the only thing I'm aware of is Tim Cook said "we plan to continue to support and release new versions of macOS for Intel Macs for years to come" when they announced Apple Silicon at WWDC 20... which is pretty wooly language but "very Apple" considering they don't like to publish product roadmaps, and just announce things when they're ready to make a change.

 

 

[Paul Thexton]

3 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

Are you talking about the part where Monterey needs to run well? A 2018 mini will run Monterey excellently, even a base model. 

Have you looked for a 2018 Mac mini on eBay? I was pretty shocked at what prices they're still being listed at compared to the price of a brand new M1 Mac mini

[BondiBlue]

3 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

Have you looked for a 2018 Mac mini on eBay? I was pretty shocked at what prices they're still being listed at compared to the price of a brand new M1 Mac mini

Yeah, they're still a bit pricey on eBay, but I've seen some pretty good deals locally over the past year or so, and I know several people who have bought them for $300 or less. Obviously that's not a guarantee that OP would be able to find one for that cheap, but it's still a very nice machine, so if they were willing to pay a bit more than $300 for one then it'd be a great choice. 

 

I'm more into older Mac minis though. I picked up a couple 2012 Mac minis from eBay a few weeks ago for $115 each. They're both quad core i7 models, and one of them even came with 16GB of RAM already installed. 

[Ultraforce]

12 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

Are you talking about the part where Monterey needs to run well? A 2018 mini will run Monterey excellently, even a base model. 

It was about future versions of macOS. so the sequel of Monterey

 

12 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

If Apple release a Mac Pro with their own Silicon this year I don't expect macOS 13 to immediately drop support for running on Intel hardware.  Apple haven't actually announced the timeline of when they will no longer ship macOS to run on Intel Macs, the only thing I'm aware of is Tim Cook said "we plan to continue to support and release new versions of macOS for Intel Macs for years to come" when they announced Apple Silicon at WWDC 20... which is pretty wooly language but "very Apple" considering they don't like to publish product roadmaps, and just announce things when they're ready to make a change.

 

 

Ah, so it's a case of we can't know for sure. There's been only one macOS announced since the WWDC with Big Sur which would suggest its unlikely macOS 13 starts off with no X86-64 support.

[BondiBlue]

Just now, Ultraforce said:

It was about future versions of macOS. so the sequel of Monterey

There's no way to tell how long Apple is going to support their Intel Macs, but considering they released new Macs with Intel CPUs as recently as late 2020 I doubt it'll happen very quickly. 

[Willa]

On 4/17/2022 at 1:07 PM, Colty said:

I work in IT and have limited OSX experience. I know a handful of simple things, but I'd like to feel confident when presented with a Mac and also be able to apply for jobs that require working knowledge of OSX.

Yes, everything is a google search away, but I'd like to become familiar. I have a 3060 so Hackintosh is off the table.

I've been looking at older Mac Mini's, but I wasn't sure if there was a good secondary option. I'm just looking for something that can browse the web and not be so dog slow that I avoid using it for that reason. 

I saw this, it fits in what I'm willing to spend, but I'm open to other ideas/options. This one supposedly can run Monterey (which is important to me), but I also don't want to be pushed aside once OSX 13.0 is rolled out. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274252955037?hash=item3fdabffd9d:g:SCUAAOSwx1ReFg3V

EDIT - I also don't want it to be super slow on Monterey. I want "it runs Monterey" not "It runs Monterey***"

I recommend taking a look at Apple's "Monterey is compatible with these computers" page; https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212551, and then getting a price "vibe" check on compatible Macs using Swappa (https://swappa.com/buy/macbooks). After that eBay and/or Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace are good places to check for cheaper deals (swappa is on the pricer side, but generally more verified and nicer in some ways than other auction sites; albeit, I've purchased several used Macs on eBay without issue thus far)

 

Checking out iFixit (https://www.ifixit.com/) on promising Mac models to see upgrade options is another good todo as well, that way you have an idea for what older Macs have upgrade paths.

 

I'll note that for non-gaming or non-demanding tasks, my 2017 MacBook Pro base models runs Monterey quite nicely. So you don't need a powerhouse if you're not gaming or doing intense performance required tasks.