Another condescending Linux article

[Arpan05]

So i was browsing my google news feed and saw this article that describes how Linux isn't for everyone.

 

 

https://dev.to/developerbishwas/linux-probably-isnt-for-you-388d

 

 

Can't help but feel this was targeted at a specific individual or entity.

 

I started daily driving linux 6 years ago. If i had come across this as a newbie I probably wouldn't have started using it and probably wouldn't have a Linux admin and DevOps role I have now.

 

[da na]

Wow too bad I do all of those things...

 

There are 3 PCs I use almost daily: my workstation (Windows 10), my PC to use in my room during lunch break to watch videos and web browse (Ubuntu 21.10) and my laptop (Windows 11). 

Out of all, I'd use Ubuntu 100% if it supported many more applications. However, WINE just isn't there yet and I'd prefer the features of Windows. 

[Radium_Angel]

As Gandhi once famously said:

"I like your Linux, I do not like the users"

 

(well, he may have said that, or words to that effect...)

 

@Mel0nMan

I am giving it another swing tho, setting up a custom box to see if I can wean myself off LightRoom (the only thing really keeping me on windows anymore)

[RONOTHAN##]

I love Linux, though you're a fanboy if you say it doesn't have it's issues. I do agree with about 70% of what is there, it's not for everybody (yet). 

 

For game development, the majority of gamers are still using Windows, so you might as well program for the platform where it's likely to sell a lot more.

 

For graphic design, yeah Krita and GIMP are awesome, but sometimes you just need Photoshop/LightRoom, so you'd need to keep a Windows install around anyway for those, so might as well simply your life. I don't agree with their reasoning that you might as well not switch since GIMP and Krita are available on both, though.

 

Gaming on Linux is a whole other can of worms. If you just play single player Steam games, you're golden. If you play multiplayer stuff or stuff on other platforms, be prepared to work for it or just not be able to play it. Sure it's gotten a lot better over recent years and the introduction of the Steam Deck is likely to make it even better, but we're still not there. 

 

For video editing, Kdenlive isn't really on the same level as Premier, and while Davinci Resolve is available on here and is good, but it's still not Premier, which is practically speaking the gold standard in the industry. 

 

Normal web browsing and email, no. If there is one thing that basically anyone get install a user-friendly distro and do easily, it's that. For computers that I will be doing primarily that, I don't even think about doing Windows on them, but I do also know enough about the Linux command line to not be afraid to go in and fix something with it, so I could be a bit biased on that. 

 

The laptop I'm typing this up on is running Linux, Fedora 35 Workstation to be specific. It works great for what I need it for, basic development for school, web browsing, email, and server maintenance. It works better than Windows for this type of work, and since there's less running in the background battery life is better (the main thing I care about with laptops, not overall performance). But I still have a Windows VM running on my server that I can RDP into if I occasionally need to do Windows tasks on my laptop, and my gaming PC is still Windows because Linux gaming still isn't there (also I'm running Nvidia so the driver situation isn't great) and the amount of times I do something that doesn't work on Linux is enough that dual booting isn't really practical. If I were able to get a second video card and do some VFIO stuff, then I'd probably run Linux full time, but the fact that you'd need 2 video cards to be able to do everything you need on your computer without rebooting every hour to change OS shows how it's not really ready. 

[D-reaper]

2 hours ago, Arpan05 said:

So i was browsing my google news feed and saw this article that describes how Linux isn't for everyone.

 

 

https://dev.to/developerbishwas/linux-probably-isnt-for-you-388d

 

 

Can't help but feel this was targeted at a specific individual or entity.

 

I started daily driving linux 6 years ago. If i had come across this as a newbie I probably wouldn't have started using it and probably wouldn't have a Linux admin and DevOps role I have now.

 

Vegeta.... You need to chill.

[Arpan05]

2 hours ago, Mel0nMan said:

Wow too bad I do all of those things...

 

There are 3 PCs I use almost daily: my workstation (Windows 10), my PC to use in my room during lunch break to watch videos and web browse (Ubuntu 21.10) and my laptop (Windows 11). 

Out of all, I'd use Ubuntu 100% if it supported many more applications. However, WINE just isn't there yet and I'd prefer the features of Windows. 

No doubt about it. 

 

But still being able to jump in to Linux without someone pointing our what you should or shouldn't do (and not providing any concrete reasoning) just puts off lots of beginners. 

[Arpan05]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

I love Linux, though you're a fanboy if you say it doesn't have it's issues. I do agree with about 70% of what is there, it's not for everybody (yet). 

 

For game development, the majority of gamers are still using Windows, so you might as well program for the platform where it's likely to sell a lot more.

 

For graphic design, yeah Krita and GIMP are awesome, but sometimes you just need Photoshop/LightRoom, so you'd need to keep a Windows install around anyway for those, so might as well simply your life. I don't agree with their reasoning that you might as well not switch since GIMP and Krita are available on both, though.

 

Gaming on Linux is a whole other can of worms. If you just play single player Steam games, you're golden. If you play multiplayer stuff or stuff on other platforms, be prepared to work for it or just not be able to play it. Sure it's gotten a lot better over recent years and the introduction of the Steam Deck is likely to make it even better, but we're still not there. 

 

For video editing, Kdenlive isn't really on the same level as Premier, and while Davinci Resolve is available on here and is good, but it's still not Premier, which is practically speaking the gold standard in the industry. 

 

Normal web browsing and email, no. If there is one thing that basically anyone get install a user-friendly distro and do easily, it's that. For computers that I will be doing primarily that, I don't even think about doing Windows on them, but I do also know enough about the Linux command line to not be afraid to go in and fix something with it, so I could be a bit biased on that. 

 

The laptop I'm typing this up on is running Linux, Fedora 35 Workstation to be specific. It works great for what I need it for, basic development for school, web browsing, email, and server maintenance. It works better than Windows for this type of work, and since there's less running in the background battery life is better (the main thing I care about with laptops, not overall performance). But I still have a Windows VM running on my server that I can RDP into if I occasionally need to do Windows tasks on my laptop, and my gaming PC is still Windows because Linux gaming still isn't there (also I'm running Nvidia so the driver situation isn't great) and the amount of times I do something that doesn't work on Linux is enough that dual booting isn't really practical. If I were able to get a second video card and do some VFIO stuff, then I'd probably run Linux full time, but the fact that you'd need 2 video cards to be able to do everything you need on your computer without rebooting every hour to change OS shows how it's not really ready. 

I'm in agreement with you. Linux isn't perfect at all. 

Having said that we should steer our conversations towards what we can do about it rather than what we should and shouldn't use linux for.

 

Just saying, "so listen, you can't game on linux" for example just discourages a newcomer who may be an aspiring game dev or someone who may end up being a contributor to Linux.

 

[Arpan05]

2 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

As Gandhi once famously said:

"I like your Linux, I do not like the users"

 

(well, he may have said that, or words to that effect...)

 

@Mel0nMan

I am giving it another swing tho, setting up a custom box to see if I can wean myself off LightRoom (the only thing really keeping me on windows anymore)

Nice! Good luck! 

[RONOTHAN##]

4 minutes ago, Arpan05 said:

Just saying, "so listen, you can't game on linux" for example just discourages a newcomer who may be an aspiring game dev or someone who may end up being a contributor to Linux.

 

You still need to be honest about it. Saying "Gaming on Linux is great, it's just as good as Windows for a lot of games" just isn't true, and implying it's anything better than hit or miss is just not truthful. For the stuff that works, yeah it's awesome. I do game on Linux with some lighter stuff (CS:GO, Minecraft, Portal, Super Tux Kart, etc.) on my laptop if I'm on the go, but it's not something I rely on, and there's a lot of stuff that I can't get to work.

 

For some people, Linux is perfect for them, but for the majority of people it's not. SteamOS 3.0 will probably make it a lot closer to prime time, but we'll have to wait till it comes out to see if it is. 

 

I'm not saying people shouldn't try it, I do recommend almost everyone to give it a shot at some point especially if they fall in the category of people who will benefit from it (devs, general consumers, tweakers, etc.), but for some categories (mainly gamers) it's just generally not worth recommending to people. 

[Arpan05]

2 hours ago, D-reaper said:

Vegeta.... You need to chill.

Lol. Vegeta no chill.

[D-reaper]

10 minutes ago, Arpan05 said:

Lol. Vegeta no chill.

Go nuts then, Vegeta...

[finest feck fips]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Saying "Gaming on Linux is great, it's just as good as Windows for a lot of games" just isn't true, and implying it's anything better than hit or miss is just not truthful.

Saying it's just as good as Windows for some games literally is saying that it's hit or miss

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, finest feck fips said:

Saying it's just as good as Windows for some games literally is saying that it's hit or miss

Linux is just a lot more miss than Windows is. 

[finest feck fips]

Well yeah... when it comes to support for Windows games, Windows has zero misses lmao

[finest feck fips]

FWIW I agree with what you said here, completely

3 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

If you just play single player Steam games, you're golden. If you play multiplayer stuff or stuff on other platforms, be prepared to work for it or just not be able to play it.

It's just that that description is not incompatible with saying Linux is just as good as Windows for some games

[Arpan05]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

You still need to be honest about it.

Well yes. 

 

My point is we can still convey the same information without being discouraging. 

[Sauron]

9 hours ago, Mel0nMan said:

Wow too bad I do all of those things...

 

There are 3 PCs I use almost daily: my workstation (Windows 10), my PC to use in my room during lunch break to watch videos and web browse (Ubuntu 21.10) and my laptop (Windows 11). 

Out of all, I'd use Ubuntu 100% if it supported many more applications. However, WINE just isn't there yet and I'd prefer the features of Windows. 

2 is pretty weird, if you are a "fan of krita and gimp" then you might at least want to try?

 

5 is also just... wrong? Linux is perfectly fine for web browsing and e-mail...

 

1 and 4 are true, so long as you're a professional game developer or video editor; an amateur can get by just fine on Linux (though if that's all you do then it may not be a great idea to switch). As for games, sure, if all you want to do is play games then you have no reason to switch to Linux.

[SnowyRVulpix]

9 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

I love Linux, though you're a fanboy if you say it doesn't have it's issues. I do agree with about 70% of what is there, it's not for everybody (yet). 

 

I don't think there are many people that say it doesn't have issues. But I do think Linux definitely has something for everyone. To say otherwise is gatekeeping.

And I say this as someone that is currently dualbooted into Windows because I can't get FFXIV to run in my copy of Linux right now.

[whm1974]

What you you expect from a Debian User? Nevermind that Valve based SteamOS off of Debian to begin with...

 

 

[D-reaper]

15 hours ago, Mel0nMan said:

Wow too bad I do all of those things...

 

There are 3 PCs I use almost daily: my workstation (Windows 10), my PC to use in my room during lunch break to watch videos and web browse (Ubuntu 21.10) and my laptop (Windows 11). 

Out of all, I'd use Ubuntu 100% if it supported many more applications. However, WINE just isn't there yet and I'd prefer the features of Windows. 

Web browsing and emailing? Seriously? Linux can't do that even? Wow. Where have I been these past 6 years on Linux? Where has my entire household been; who uses Linux on a  daily basis too? lol

[D-reaper]

11 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

You still need to be honest about it. Saying "Gaming on Linux is great, it's just as good as Windows for a lot of games" just isn't true, and implying it's anything better than hit or miss is just not truthful. For the stuff that works, yeah it's awesome. I do game on Linux with some lighter stuff (CS:GO, Minecraft, Portal, Super Tux Kart, etc.) on my laptop if I'm on the go, but it's not something I rely on, and there's a lot of stuff that I can't get to work.

 

For some people, Linux is perfect for them, but for the majority of people it's not. SteamOS 3.0 will probably make it a lot closer to prime time, but we'll have to wait till it comes out to see if it is. 

 

I'm not saying people shouldn't try it, I do recommend almost everyone to give it a shot at some point especially if they fall in the category of people who will benefit from it (devs, general consumers, tweakers, etc.), but for some categories (mainly gamers) it's just generally not worth recommending to people. 

Well, Lutris has made my gaming easy. In fact, I was playing Nier Automata the day before with no hiccups. Thanks to Lutris, I have a decent sized library of games that I can choose from; which are not native Linux games.

[Dat Guy]

10 hours ago, finest feck fips said:

Well yeah... when it comes to support for Windows games, Windows has zero misses lmao

Which is why I think it is ridiculous to talk about Windows simulators for Linux. If you want to use Windows, use Windows.

 

From the article: "Use Linux only for development purposes" - and even then it's not the best of all ideas, as Linux does not follow common standards (GNU is not POSIX, bash is not POSIX). I prefer Unix or BSD for that.

[D-reaper]

13 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

I love Linux, though you're a fanboy if you say it doesn't have it's issues. I do agree with about 70% of what is there, it's not for everybody (yet). 

 

For game development, the majority of gamers are still using Windows, so you might as well program for the platform where it's likely to sell a lot more.

 

For graphic design, yeah Krita and GIMP are awesome, but sometimes you just need Photoshop/LightRoom, so you'd need to keep a Windows install around anyway for those, so might as well simply your life. I don't agree with their reasoning that you might as well not switch since GIMP and Krita are available on both, though.

 

Gaming on Linux is a whole other can of worms. If you just play single player Steam games, you're golden. If you play multiplayer stuff or stuff on other platforms, be prepared to work for it or just not be able to play it. Sure it's gotten a lot better over recent years and the introduction of the Steam Deck is likely to make it even better, but we're still not there. 

 

For video editing, Kdenlive isn't really on the same level as Premier, and while Davinci Resolve is available on here and is good, but it's still not Premier, which is practically speaking the gold standard in the industry. 

 

Normal web browsing and email, no. If there is one thing that basically anyone get install a user-friendly distro and do easily, it's that. For computers that I will be doing primarily that, I don't even think about doing Windows on them, but I do also know enough about the Linux command line to not be afraid to go in and fix something with it, so I could be a bit biased on that. 

 

The laptop I'm typing this up on is running Linux, Fedora 35 Workstation to be specific. It works great for what I need it for, basic development for school, web browsing, email, and server maintenance. It works better than Windows for this type of work, and since there's less running in the background battery life is better (the main thing I care about with laptops, not overall performance). But I still have a Windows VM running on my server that I can RDP into if I occasionally need to do Windows tasks on my laptop, and my gaming PC is still Windows because Linux gaming still isn't there (also I'm running Nvidia so the driver situation isn't great) and the amount of times I do something that doesn't work on Linux is enough that dual booting isn't really practical. If I were able to get a second video card and do some VFIO stuff, then I'd probably run Linux full time, but the fact that you'd need 2 video cards to be able to do everything you need on your computer without rebooting every hour to change OS shows how it's not really ready. 

Thankfully, I was using open source software long before switching to Linux. So I didn't have to worry about anything Adobe related. I was using Gimp for quite a while. Then Krita became a better option for my digital drawings.

 

And gaming isn't as difficult as you make it out to be. Sure, the odd game will not work on Linux. But with Lutris, it makes the game setup rather easy. I have an entire list, which are not native Linux games, that I can choose from in a simple GUI.

 

As for VFIO with Windows (a lite mod from Team OS thankfully), I use that only for a couple of trainers for certain games. Otherwise, I'd just play them on Linux through Wine.

 

But yeah. The sooner you get a secondary card for VFIO, you'll see that it's much easier to use Linux full time. Because you won't have to keep dual booting between the two. I seriously don't miss dual booting. I like the fact that Windows is just a click away; and that I can keep it isolated from all network activity. Not to mention have snapshots in case Windows gets messed up somehow.

[D-reaper]

7 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

Which is why I think it is ridiculous to talk about Windows simulators for Linux. If you want to use Windows, use Windows.

 

From the article: "Use Linux only for development purposes" - and even then it's not the best of all ideas, as Linux does not follow common standards (GNU is not POSIX, bash is not POSIX). I prefer Unix or BSD for that.

Why can't I play my Windows games on Linux through Wine if they already work though? So why use Windows? lol

[whm1974]

7 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

Which is why I think it is ridiculous to talk about Windows simulators for Linux. If you want to use Windows, use Windows.

 

From the article: "Use Linux only for development purposes" - and even then it's not the best of all ideas, as Linux does not follow common standards (GNU is not POSIX, bash is not POSIX). I prefer Unix or BSD for that.

What is wrong with BASH? Or Lutris, Proton, or Wine?