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USB Flash Drives: To Boot and run OS from?

Video Beagle
By Video Beagle
in Storage Devices
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I'm thinking about getting some Flash Drives to use for setting up OS's on..like linux or mac or windows variants...i dunno really..not a fully formed plan yet 🙂  BUT I've not looked at the Flash Drive market in ages so 1) Are there drives that are fast enough to use for booting/running off of, and 2) if so, what are the stats I should look for...  (2a) brands, features, etc).

 

 

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Id probaby avoid booting from usb if you can, it just has more issues and isn't made for this normally.

 

But id go with a external ssd if you have to. Either get a m.2/2.5in to usb or something like a samsung t5.

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I really do believe you will be able to find some USB's that can run an OS w/o it being installation media only. There are lots of USB 3.0 flash drives out there and i certainly know that quite a few can do 150+ MBPS write speeds. I would not really recommend it though as @Electronics Wizardyhas just mentioned above.

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Samsung stick bar plus can go up to 300MB/s depending on capacity, it's the highest I've seen. Otherwise you can make your own with m.2 enclosures. They will just be slightly larger than a traditional usb drive

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3 minutes ago, GamingRoos said:

I would not really recommend it though as @Electronics Wizardyhas just mentioned above.

there's a cost element in this plan, as well.

🖥️ Motherboard: MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS  ** Processor: AMD Ryzen 2600 3.4 GHz ** Video Card: Nvidia GeForce 1070 TI 8GB Zotac 1070ti 🖥️
🖥️ Memory: 32GB DDR4 2400  ** Power Supply: 650 Watts Power Supply Thermaltake +80 Bronze Thermaltake PSU 🖥️

🍎 2012 iMac i7 27";  2007 MBP 2.2 GHZ; Power Mac G5 Dual 2GHZ; B&W G3; Quadra 650; Mac SE 🍎

🍎 iPad Air2; iPhone SE 2020; iPhone 5s; AppleTV 4k 🍎

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7 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Id probaby avoid booting from usb if you can, it just has more issues and isn't made for this normally.

 

But id go with a external ssd if you have to. Either get a m.2/2.5in to usb or something like a samsung t5.

There's nothing wrong at all for using a USB drive to boot an OS to install it. People used to live boot Linux off of CDs. Plus some distros like BlackArch were purpose built to be run live. I agree it's a terrible idea for a long term solution but for live booting there is not reason to avoid it or run into issues. Even cheap walmart shitter USB sticks can run perfectly. Also windows 10 is installed via USB drive too

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

There's nothing wrong at all for using a USB drive to boot an OS to install it. People used to live boot Linux off of CDs. Plus some distros like BlackArch were purpose built to be run live. I agree it's a terrible idea for a long term solution but for live booting there is not reason to avoid it or run into issues. Even cheap walmart shitter USB sticks can run perfectly. Also windows 10 is installed via USB drive too

LIve Disks are different as its mostly just copied into ram, and made to be run read only. USB sticks kinda suck if your running a full os on it as they are pretty bad with random io normallly. And with current prices, a external ssd isn't that much more than a usb drive and much faster so why not.

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As I have a number of the heavy hitters of the forum in this thread, if I can focus towards this part:

 

19 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

2) if so, what are the stats I should look for...  (2a) brands, features, etc).

 

What are "good" speeds I should look for? ....either in Flash drives or m2 or ssd...

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I wouldn't live boot it; I live boot from ubuntu mate, for mining, and it has been incredibly slow (although, this is an older flash drive). However, I would not use it long term unless you a) really hate yourself or b) are mining and can find a fast one. Also, usb live installs are just prone to issues, most of which relate to weird issues with firmware, or the usb drive falling out xD. I'd go for a cheaper sata ssd or m.2.

please tag me for a response, It's really hard to keep tabs on every thread I reply to. thanks!!

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Just now, Video Beagle said:

 

As I have a number of the heavy hitters of the forum in this thread, if I can focus towards this part:

 

 

What are "good" speeds I should look for? ....either in Flash drives or m2 or ssd...

Random IO is the best indicator of performance. USB drives normally suck at this with some few exceptions, and the external ssds are much better. The ssd reviews are normally pretty good as showing random performance.

 

If you want something to boot from, id look at the iodd virtual cd/vhd drives as you can put lots of virtual vhds on them and switch between them.

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3 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

 

As I have a number of the heavy hitters of the forum in this thread, if I can focus towards this part:

 

 

What are "good" speeds I should look for? ....either in Flash drives or m2 or ssd...

Honestly your best bet would just be a usb to m.2 or usb to 2.5inch drive adapter thing and slap a normal ssd in there. Those things are made to handle an os unlike usb sticks which you can rather rapidly kill hitting them with a bunch of random IO operations.

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If you need to run full operating systems from USB then your best bet is to use either an M.2 or 2.5" SSD with an adapter. Normal USB flash drives don't perform well when it comes to random performance. 

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I just use one of these on my macs with crucial SSDs. Haven’t run in to a single issue, in fact right now my Intel Mac Mini running ESXi has two of these with Crucial SSDs to serve as data stores for VMs

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1 minute ago, Paul Thexton said:

I just use one of these on my macs with crucial SSDs. Haven’t run in to a single issue, in fact right now my Intel Mac Mini running ESXi has two of these with Crucial SSDs to serve as data stores for VMs

I do similar with my iMac..the internal SSD is dying, throwing up errors, so rather than dig tru the imac and figure out how to replace the blade drive, I have a Crucial SSD in an USB3 enclosure that the OS is on, with the HDD in it being the main storage drive (former fusion drive set up).

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53 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

LIve Disks are different as its mostly just copied into ram, and made to be run read only. USB sticks kinda suck if your running a full os on it as they are pretty bad with random io normallly. And with current prices, a external ssd isn't that much more than a usb drive and much faster so why not.

I don't disagree with you that an external SSD would be a much better solution I'm just saying your original comment made it seem like you would most likely have issues running off a USB drive

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Graph from vsphere of drive while installing macOS Big Sur on a fresh VM on my setup this morning.

 

image.thumb.png.8d3a086f6b018c6e4088e8e376c485b8.png

 

The latency is definitely higher than you would expect from an internal SSD, but it's still more than an acceptable tradeoff IMO

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16 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

Graph from vsphere of drive while installing macOS Big Sur on a fresh VM on my setup this morning.

I'm  afraid I don't know what I'm looking at.

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7 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

I'm  afraid I don't know what I'm looking at.

It's pretty minimal really, the macOS install process actually doesn't seem to hit the disk particularly hard in terms of kB/s write speed, but the key point is the latency.  My knowledge here is limited as well but my best understanding is that internal SSD latency should generally be in the 2-3ms range, whereas traditional rotating rust SATA drives would probably be 15-20ms.

 

If the latency was much higher than this, even if the write/read speeds were high, then running an OS and launching applications (which would in turn need to load many resources from disk) from it would start to feel "sluggish".

 

If there are any storage experts here reading this, please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

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6 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

It's pretty minimal really, the macOS install process actually doesn't seem to hit the disk particularly hard in terms of kB/s write speed, but the key point is the latency. 

 

I'm not so concerned about flash drives for install...I do have a number of them set up for that purpose for when needed...In this thread, I'm more talking about using it as a live drive....a stealth up to a computer, plug it in, boot to my own OS, and hack the computer type of thing, minus the stealth and hack stuff as I'm talking about my own computer in my own home, and going outside involves being near people...

 

I could, like to play around with linux or something, set up a VM and use that...on my iMac, despite it not supporting Big Sur, CAN (and has) run a Parallels VM and get it installed on it and run.

 

Might see what I can find in terms of low cost m2's or sata sdds of low capacity.

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Ah I understand what you're wanting a little better now. Using a USB thumb drive as a live drive, especially if you're using Linux on it, should be ok but you'll probably want to image it to restore to new drives if it ever fails. I'd say it'll be more performant and reliable if you use something more like what I'm using here though.

 

It's worth noting, and I don't know if this is true for all PC/Laptops, but my Mac Mini and 2017 MacBook Pro absolutely refuse to boot up when I have an USB-C to M.2 device attached. Which was actually my original use case (instead of the chunkier sata SSD -> USB-C I now use), but now I just use it as a TimeMachine backup device / general dumping ground because when using it as an external disk when macOS is already booted works perfectly.

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I can also state that using the SanDisk Extreme SSD works as an external boot device on macs, and presumably other PCs. I've just now realised how many different types of external storage devices I've got ... 🤦🏻‍♂️

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6 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

It's worth noting, and I don't know if this is true for all PC/Laptops, but my Mac Mini and 2017 MacBook Pro absolutely refuse to boot up when I have an USB-C to M.2 device attached.

 

Well, none of my machines, mac or pc, have usb-c anyway, so neither here nor there.

One thing that occured to me, though it's 4:30am so not gonna look into it now, is that low cost ssd's generaly have no dram cache, which I've been told is bad..so their use case may not be great in this hypothetical low cost plan of whatever I'm thinking 🙂

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Yeah. I'm not sure either way in that regard, definitely need someone who is more of a specialist in storage to answer that.

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13 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

 

Well, none of my machines, mac or pc, have usb-c anyway, so neither here nor there.

One thing that occured to me, though it's 4:30am so not gonna look into it now, is that low cost ssd's generaly have no dram cache, which I've been told is bad..so their use case may not be great in this hypothetical low cost plan of whatever I'm thinking 🙂

I mean, it'd be better than a flash drive in terms of random IO, and might save you a lot of time due to silly breakdowns with live installs n stuff, really depends on your budget. 

please tag me for a response, It's really hard to keep tabs on every thread I reply to. thanks!!

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