Posted August 17, 2021 Good Morning and Happy Monday Pt. 2! My company has an old server that is due for an upgrade. We're running Windows Server 2003 and I don't believe the software we use is compatible with any newer versions. Can Server 2003 be migrated to newer hardware like Windows 10? I believe since Server 2003 uses BIOS instead of UEFI, it has more limited compatibility. (Unless I am off the mark here.) The software we use is so old, no one here remembers how to install it from scratch. The method we were thinking of using is Acronis, cloning the disk to a new server. Thanks in advance for any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 This fells like a ask your boss/team problem Id move this to a vm, is there a reason why this has to be on metal? Then you can run that vm on any hardware. Server 2003 won't run on most newish hardware as there aren't drivers for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said: This fells like a ask your boss/team problem Id move this to a vm, is there a reason why this has to be on metal? Then you can run that vm on any hardware. Server 2003 won't run on most newish hardware as there aren't drivers for it. Ya know. I thought about this, but I never could figure out how to migrate an OS to a VM. This would almost ensure compatibility. We are looking into replacing all of our PC's to terminals and run a VM server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, CubisticWings4 said: Ya know. I thought about this, but I never could figure out how to migrate an OS to a VM. This would almost ensure compatibility. We are looking into replacing all of our PC's to terminals and run a VM server. I wouldn't move the pcs to a vm server normally, its normally not cheap and leads to a worse experience for users. Id move all the servers to vms. What hypervisor are you using? Most of them have a tool for this. LIke use disk2vhd for hyper-v, and then make a gen 1 hyper-v vm with that image and your good. Ive done this many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 4 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: This fells like a ask your boss/team problem Id move this to a vm, is there a reason why this has to be on metal? Then you can run that vm on any hardware. Server 2003 won't run on most newish hardware as there aren't drivers for it. Also, you're talking to the team. We're a company of 7 people. I'm self-taught of 8 years in IT. Boss just says, "Whatever's cheap and works." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said: I wouldn't move the pcs to a vm server normally, its normally not cheap and leads to a worse experience for users. Id move all the servers to vms. What hypervisor are you using? Most of them have a tool for this. LIke use disk2vhd for hyper-v, and then make a gen 1 hyper-v vm with that image and your good. Ive done this many times. As far as terminals, I was thinking using RPi's as terminals. However, Each terminal needs an LPT parallel port for printing tickets/invoices. Server uses Pervasive SQL from like 1999 to communicate to our PC's. We need a way to keep our terminals off the Web since our POS software only runs on DOS 3.0 to XP. With this, we have to meet CMMC requirements to continue business with Military Contractors and the Navy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 you'd have to go back probably around 10 years to find hardware that will still run 2003. In short: Don't. Unless there's a very very high business requirement to run ancient servers? upgrade to something newer. Just now, CubisticWings4 said: As far as terminals, I was thinking using RPi's as terminals. However, Each terminal needs an LPT parallel port for printing tickets/invoices. Server uses Pervasive SQL from like 1999 to communicate to our PC's. We need a way to keep our terminals off the Web since our POS software only runs on DOS 3.0 to XP. With this, we have to meet CMMC requirements to continue business with Military Contractors and the Navy. oh god... you're screwed. Ummm.... If there's no proprietary hardware in your 2003 server as a requirement? I'd try a P2V Conversion, and see how it works are a VM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 23 minutes ago, tkitch said: you'd have to go back probably around 10 years to find hardware that will still run 2003. In short: Don't. Unless there's a very very high business requirement to run ancient servers? upgrade to something newer. oh god... you're screwed. Ummm.... If there's no proprietary hardware in your 2003 server as a requirement? I'd try a P2V Conversion, and see how it works are a VM. AFAIK, there's no proprietary hardware. We had one before this and just bought an off-the-shelf Lenovo server. Does this help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 What's your hypervisor software? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 41 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: As far as terminals, I was thinking using RPi's as terminals. However, Each terminal needs an LPT parallel port for printing tickets/invoices. Server uses Pervasive SQL from like 1999 to communicate to our PC's. We need a way to keep our terminals off the Web since our POS software only runs on DOS 3.0 to XP. With this, we have to meet CMMC requirements to continue business with Military Contractors and the Navy. That LPT is gonna be a pain to use with thin clients. Id get devices made for thin clients, no rpis here personally. I also am working on CMMC l3, have fun, its not gonna be cheap, and your gonna have to replace that server 2003 system if its in scope(probably) 5 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: AFAIK, there's no proprietary hardware. We had one before this and just bought an off-the-shelf Lenovo server. Does this help? Id just use a vm. Server 2033 won't work on any semi modern server these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 1 minute ago, tkitch said: What's your hypervisor software? None that I'm aware of. As far as upgrading, that's really not an option. We're a company of seven people and licensing for modern POS software is something to the tune of about $55-$150k. Our current terminals aren't actually terminals. Each employee has an XP PC. with a server shortcut to open the POS software through Pervasive SQL. POS software is Touchstone 2000, from Dimasys, now Infor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 3 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: That LPT is gonna be a pain to use with thin clients. Id get devices made for thin clients, no rpis here personally. I also am working on CMMC l3, have fun, its not gonna be cheap, and your gonna have to replace that server 2003 system if its in scope(probably) Id just use a vm. Server 2033 won't work on any semi modern server these days. Here is the software: http://www.dimasys.com/index.cfm?page=DIMPROF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 8 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: I also am working on CMMC l3, have fun, its not gonna be cheap, and your gonna have to replace that server 2003 system if its in scope(probably) Id just use a vm. Server 2033 won't work on any semi modern server these days. If the Server 2003 is isolated from the internet (no wired or wireless connections) do you think that'd fly with CMMC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 okay then for a test, get a decent windows 10 desktop. (At least 32GB RAM, good CPU, good SSD, etc.) And try to do a VM Conversion to Hyper-V onto that box. I can't guarantee it'll work, but it's worth a shot. Hyper V is usable on HyperV 2016: https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/lync/en-US/51ec1d6f-8a15-427c-8ed1-de2801921a41/hyperv-2016-running-windows-server-2003-vm?forum=winserverhyperv Don't use this as a permanent home, but it's a solid spot to start testing with, so you don't buy a full server for it, only to find out it won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: None that I'm aware of. As far as upgrading, that's really not an option. We're a company of seven people and licensing for modern POS software is something to the tune of about $55-$150k. Our current terminals aren't actually terminals. Each employee has an XP PC. with a server shortcut to open the POS software through Pervasive SQL. POS software is Touchstone 2000, from Dimasys, now Infor. CMMC isn't gonna be cheap, lets say that. Your gonna probably have to replace most of the IT equipment here to have supported software that is in use. Do the users have other PCs for tasks like email, web browsing and simmilar tasks? THen work on replacing the old software with something modern. I wouldn't use vdi here, just get new software. You will need to do that one day anyways. 1 minute ago, CubisticWings4 said: If the Server 2003 is isolated from the internet (no wired or wireless connections) do you think that'd fly with CMMC? I can't say for sure here, and really depends on the level you need to hit, but it might be ok if you keep it from accessing anything else Also you got a backup of this server right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 16 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: CMMC isn't gonna be cheap, lets say that. Your gonna probably have to replace most of the IT equipment here to have supported software that is in use. Do the users have other PCs for tasks like email, web browsing and simmilar tasks? THen work on replacing the old software with something modern. I wouldn't use vdi here, just get new software. You will need to do that one day anyways. I can't say for sure here, and really depends on the level you need to hit, but it might be ok if you keep it from accessing anything else Also you got a backup of this server right? NUMEROUS backups. We use our XP PC's for browsing and emails (I have a windows 10 NUC for my workstation with XP running in a VM to run Touchstone. Attached is a picture of our setup (I didn't design it or install it, I just make sure that if anything breaks, it gets replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 22 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: I can't say for sure here, and really depends on the level you need to hit, but it might be ok if you keep it from accessing anything else We're just going for the bare minimum level. Boss doesn't like to spend money lol (I really can't blame him, though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: NUMEROUS backups. We use our XP PC's for browsing and emails (I have a windows 10 NUC for my workstation with XP running in a VM to run Touchstone. Yea stop using the XP pcs for that ASAP. Get some win10 pcs in there(or something else modern) for that use. 4 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: Attached is a picture of our setup (I didn't design it or install it, I just make sure that if anything breaks, it gets replaced. Is that server only running your app or other things? Id probably try to get a new setup going along side this old one, and only use the XP system for the POS system, and disconnect it from the interent. 3 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: We're just going for the bare minimum level. Boss doesn't like to spend money lol (I really can't blame him, though.) CMMC won't be cheap, lets say that, even for L1 here, your way out of compliance using XP as a main desktop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 3 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Yea stop using the XP pcs for that ASAP. Get some win10 pcs in there(or something else modern) for that use. Yeah. That's definitely a mandatory thing for us. We were planning on doing that regardless. 3 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Is that server only running your app or other things? It's running the Touchstone database and has a separate HDD for storing shared docs (price sheets and such.) I'd like to have a separate server or even a NAS ffs. 3 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Id probably try to get a new setup going along side this old one, and only use the XP system for the POS system, and disconnect it from the internet. Definitely. 3 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: CMMC won't be cheap, lets say that, even for L1 here, your way out of compliance using XP as a main desktop. That's what I've been thinking. Boss was thinking of getting some Latitudes for employees handling emails and browsing. On another note, how would you recommend handling hardware security (eg. firewalls, switches, etc.?) I was thinking Ubiquiti's hardware? BTW, thank you so much for hanging in with me this far. You're a real OG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: Yeah. That's definitely a mandatory thing for us. We were planning on doing that regardless. Yea do that asap 9 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: It's running the Touchstone database and has a separate HDD for storing shared docs (price sheets and such.) I'd like to have a separate server or even a NAS ffs. Quote Yea Id get a new server or move the documents to the cloud. Keep everything off that old server that you can 10 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: On another note, how would you recommend handling hardware security (eg. firewalls, switches, etc.?) I was thinking Ubiquiti's hardware? What level of CMMC? Id probably go something else that does FIPS better if you need that. 10 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: That's what I've been thinking. Boss was thinking of getting some Latitudes for employees handling emails and browsing. Id go desktops if you can, easier to secure for CMMC(mobile devices need more controls) ALso the estimates for CMMC are 100K+, just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 6 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Yea Id get a new server or move the documents to the cloud. Keep everything off that old server that you can If a cloud option is admissible, I'd prefer to go that route. 6 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: What level of CMMC? Id probably go something else that does FIPS better if you need that. Level 1, basically. Just trying to keep us in business with Ingalls, Seabee Bases, etc.. 6 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Id go desktops if you can, easier to secure for CMMC(mobile devices need more controls) That's a bummer. Not gonna be as plug 'n play as I had hoped. 6 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Also the estimates for CMMC are 100K+, just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 42 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: If a cloud option is admissible, I'd prefer to go that route. Look at microsoft 365. Reasonble price for email + office + sharepoints and onedrive for cloud storage. Thats what id get here. And you get azure ad for some basic management for free 43 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: Level 1, basically. Just trying to keep us in business with Ingalls, Seabee Bases, etc.. Quote Oh thats gonna be much easier, I have do do l3 43 minutes ago, CubisticWings4 said: You probably need less than 100k as its level 1, l3 is more of a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 17 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Look at microsoft 365. Reasonble price for email + office + sharepoints and onedrive for cloud storage. Thats what id get here. And you get azure ad for some basic management for free Oh thats gonna be much easier, I have do do l3 You probably need less than 100k as its level 1, l3 is more of a pain. Actually, earlier last year, we switch website providers and got a sweet deal on G Suite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, CubisticWings4 said: Actually, earlier last year, we switch website providers and got a sweet deal on G Suite. Yea then stick with that. Id move all your docs to gsuite, and start deleting/hiding things from the file server to force users onto gsuite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted August 17, 2021 Author 1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Yea then stick with that. Id move all your docs to gsuite, and start deleting/hiding things from the file server to force users onto gsuite. Okay. I have a better sense of direction that I need to go. Thanks a bunch for your help! If I have any more questions, can I dm you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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