Do games use Hyperthreading?

[acidydragon]

Hello all!

 

So, we all know that games are slowly becoming more core friendly, and are using more and more of 8 core processors.

 

My question would be, in the same way that games are using AMD's FX processors more, will i7's see a similar boost?

 

Thanks for all answers

[PillowSmoke]

Uh some games, not all.

[Levent]

yeah some.

[acidydragon]

Hmm...

 

yeah some.

 

I like that 7 fps...

[ZetZet]

Hmm...

 

 

I like that 7 fps...

7fps in that case is like 15% increase.

[Levent]

Hmm...

 

 

I like that 7 fps...

yeah? thats still and improvement and thats why everyone suggests i5 over i7 for gaming.

[acidydragon]

7fps in that case is like 15% increase.

That's a pretty good increase. (I wasn't being sarcastic btw.)

[Faa]

All games can use hyperthreading, the question is if the game engine is based on more than 4 threads in order to see a performance boost but mostly theyre just at 2-3.

 

[Real_PhillBert]

I would venture a lot of internet cookies that in the near future we will see significantly more utilization of more cores and hyperthreading.

[acidydragon]

I ask this, because at one point I asked about upgrading my CPU, and was told I was ridiculous for considering doing so (I have an 8320 currently), because I was told that games are going to use TONS of cores in the futures, and I'll only see a loss of performance... But if more cores are being used, then hyperthreading will cover the extra cores very similarly to the 8 core processors, right? (Note: I'm looking at a 6 core i7)

[qwertywarrior]

if a game supports 8 threads then yes it does regardless if its 8 cores or 4 cores with HT

 

when a game looks at the CPU it doesnt see cores it sees threads

[tacticalpanic]

linus says it time and time again , theres no such thing as future proofing a system , when 8 cores are required intel will already have them in there standard lineups, and by that time your processer will probleby be old hat.

 

2500K is the new Q6600

[Vitalius]

I ask this, because at one point I asked about upgrading my CPU, and was told I was ridiculous for considering doing so (I have an 8320 currently), because I was told that games are going to use TONS of cores in the futures, and I'll only see a loss of performance... But if more cores are being used, then hyperthreading will cover the extra cores very similarly to the 8 core processors, right? (Note: I'm looking at a 6 core i7)

Kinda. 

Not really though. More actual threads is better than the same amount of "virtual" threads. Not sure if that's the right word, but it sounds right.

What you have to realize is that Hyperthreading (as I understand it) is utilizing the CPU's down time to basically get more work done efficiently. If you are already using the normal cores 100% fully, then you won't see much improvement with hyperthreading because there's no down time for the extra threads to get work done. 

I think hyperthreading improving gaming performance is just evidence of games under utilizing CPUs as it is.

[Faceman]

No component has a more positive impact on performance than the graphics card.  This is why it is recommended to go i5-4670k, and repurpose the money that would have gone towards an i7 and parlay it into a more powerful GPU.

[acidydragon]

Not really though. More actual threads is better than the same amount of "virtual" threads. Not sure if that's the right word, but it sounds right.

Hyperthreading isn't just a virtual thing, it's hardware based.

 

The 8350 also isn't a true 8 core chip either, It has 4 main cores that have divisions that make it work like 1.5 cores. (Based on what I've heard from very reputable sources)

[acidydragon]

No component has a more positive impact on performance than the graphics card.  This is why it is recommended to go i5-4670k, and repurpose the money that would have gone towards an i7 and parlay it into a more powerful GPU.

My GPU isn't the issue in my case (this upgrade will come with a second 780 Classified for SLI)

It wasn't a money thing that I was asking in that case though that people drove me down,

It was more of a general idea if money wasn't an issue, which was better, a 4670k or an 8350, and people told me that my 8320 would be better than the 4670k in 2 years max.

[Faceman]

My GPU isn't the issue in my case (this upgrade will come with a second 780 Classified for SLI)

It wasn't a money thing that I was asking in that case though that people drove me down,

It was more of a general idea if money wasn't an issue, which was better, a 4670k or an 8350, and people told me that my 8320 would be better than the 4670k in 2 years max.

In theory, games are beginning to utilize hyper threading more.  I am an Intel guy, so I am biased.

[Vitalius]

Hyperthreading isn't just a virtual thing, it's hardware based.

 

The 8350 also isn't a true 8 core chip either, It has 4 main cores that have divisions that make it work like 1.5 cores. (Based on what I've heard from very reputable sources)

Kinda. Kinda not. 

I know hyperthreading isn't virtual. That's what the quotes were for. It's a hardware thing, but it's about efficiency. And I suspect RAM speed & timings is tied to how much performance boost it gives. 

Yes, it isn't. It has a total of 4 FPUs and 8 IUs. Floating Point Units and Integer Units. Each module of 2 Integer Units share 1 Floating Point Unit for calculations, so depending on the task, it's effectively a 4 core. Or a 6 core, or an 8 core. It just depends what the program uses most. Floating Point calculations, or Integer calculations. 

Then there's the fact that each 2 core module shares L3 cache (IIRC, it shares some kind of cache), so if they aren't working together on something, they are fighting for resources.

 

[The_Strict_Nein]

I'll be interested to see if DX12 allows, without specific coding from the developer, to dynamically scale core utilisation based on the number of cores windows detects. That way we could see a sizeable performance increase by going i7 over i5.

[Faa]

Kinda. Kinda not. 

I know hyperthreading isn't virtual. That's what the quotes were for. It's a hardware thing, but it's about efficiency. And I suspect RAM speed & timings is tied to how much performance boost it gives. 

Yes, it isn't. It has a total of 4 FPUs and 8 IUs. Floating Point Units and Integer Units. Each module of 2 Integer Units share 1 Floating Point Unit for calculations, so depending on the task, it's effectively a 4 core. Or a 6 core, or an 8 core. It just depends what the program uses most. Floating Point calculations, or Integer calculations. 

Then there's the fact that each 2 core module shares L3 cache (IIRC, it shares some kind of cache), so if they aren't working together on something, they are fighting for resources.

 

8350's have 2x128bit FP's per module where as Intel uses a 256bit FP per core. You're losing some per core performance when a 2nd thread is assigned to the 2nd core because the cache is shared. It's a true octacore but it's multithreaded FP performance is on par with Intel's quadcore but it's integer performance (multithreaded) is buttkicking Intel including the 4770k.

[bronsonp4htdude123455]

yes and no depends on the title

[Opcode]

Yes games do utilize Hyper-Threading, tho not all do. Lets get one thing straight, games are written with the intention to only utilize cores. Tho operating systems such as Microsoft Windows recognizes processors with Hyper-Threading as "additional cores". For an example a i3 is recognized by Windows as a quad core processor. This makes heavily threaded games utilize the processor as a crippled quad core which will boost performance in comparison to the same processor with Hyper-Threading disabled. Tho like stated some games can have issues with Hyper-Threading and other games it doesn't seem to make any difference at all (mostly fault to a poorly threaded game or engine).