First Custom Mechanical Keyboard - Need your Help

[Frownwarrior]

Hello everybody

I have had a Razor Blackwidow keyboard with MX Blue for over 8 years. I love this keyboard but it's getting old. I really appreciate the MX Blue Switches for their feedback and great sound. But now I stream, hold webinars, do homeschooling and chat a lot and the noise of my keyboard bothers me a lot.

 

I see more and more videos where people build their own keyboards. I find this very exciting and now I want to assemble a keyboard myself.

Unfortunately, I am absolutely overwhelmed with the selection on the market. That's why I need your help.

 

• I want a keyboard of the highest quality that will last for many years and not fail me.
• I want a full layout keyboard + numeric keypad. Additional buttons are not a must. Media keys are a nice bonus but not absolutely necessary.
• The layout must match the Swiss standard SN 074021: 1999. (critical) (I have problems finding suitable keycaps with a swiss layout.)
• The keyboard should be significantly quieter than my current one with MX Blue
• RBG is optional, but backlighting is required.
• I'm open to the switch typ.

 

I've read a lot about "panda switches" that they are among the best but I have no idea. I only know what I use every day and can only compare with that.

I also play a lot of MOBA games, which is why I'm also interested in switches like the MX Speed. ( I know the feel of MX Blue, Red and Brown)

 

I ask you for help and tips where and what I have to order for a custom keyboard.

My budget for the components is around $ 350 (but its not fix on that)

 

I thank you in advance for all your help.

-F

 

[Drama Lama]

36 minutes ago, Frownwarrior said:

The layout must match the Swiss standard SN 074021: 1999. (critical) (I have problems finding suitable keycaps with a swiss layout.)

would you have a problem with getting blanc keycaps? ( I mean it's only an option if you can touchtype and don't need " normies " using the computer

 

if you want some information on custom keebs:

 

[Narmonteam]

Swiss gang! Also looking into getting a mech so I do know the feeling

Your only option (unless you want to search for limited run keycaps) is the tai hao blue moon kit, or a blank keycap set. Since the layout is set in software you could technically have any keycaps, aslong as you know where which symbol is. 

 

As for switches, have a look at this handy flowchart, but at the end of the day, it's preference. There isn't really any benefit to any of them concerning gaming. 

 

For the Board, I'd suggest the CU80, which is currently on group buy with a seperate numpad. Otherwise, the GMMK fits the description, but it really doesn't do the budget justice.

[seon123]

1 hour ago, Frownwarrior said:

I want a keyboard of the highest quality that will last for many years and not fail me.

How would you define "quality" in this case? While not custom, Topre keyboards should be more reliable than contact based switches. But realistically, reliability should not be a concern either way.

1 hour ago, Frownwarrior said:

I want a full layout keyboard + numeric keypad. Additional buttons are not a must. Media keys are a nice bonus but not absolutely necessary.

Typically, custom keyboards are 40% and up to 1800, with pretty much no options for full sized keyboards. You could check out 96-key or 1800 layout, to see if that's something you would be fine with?

1 hour ago, Frownwarrior said:

The layout must match the Swiss standard SN 074021: 1999. (critical) (I have problems finding suitable keycaps with a swiss layout.)

The physical layout looks like it's just standard ISO, so that should not be a major issue. For keycaps, Glorious has a set for €20, but it's just standard, low quality, laser etched ABS. Worse than what you find on €30 mechs, and same as e.g. on the K95, Blackwidow, SS Apex, etc. Another option is to just go for blank keycaps.

1 hour ago, Frownwarrior said:

The keyboard should be significantly quieter than my current one with MX Blue

That does not say much. Do you just not want clicky switches, or do you want silenced switches?

 

 

If you are fine with 96-key, you could check out the XD96 or YMDK96. Both of these support per key LEDs, so that's a bunch more to solder. In addition to the PCB, case and plate, you'd need switches (based on requirements), stabilisers (Durock ones are good), some lube for the stabilisers (dielectric grease/superlube is fine), keycaps (based on requirements), through hole LEDs (1.8mm or 3mm), and just a cable to connect it to your PC.

 

 

Then, optionally, you could get lube for the switches (and a brush, maybe a stem holder or lubing station (extra optional, switch films and replacement springs)), some band aid to dampen the stabs, some foam to put inside the case, and some foam to put between the PCB and plate. That should cover it, I think?

Edited February 24, 2021 by seon123
Clumsy Ctrl + Enter, something something

[Eschew]

Hey there.

1 hour ago, Frownwarrior said:

I ask you for help and tips where and what I have to order for a custom keyboard.

For custom keyboards, this'll be your standard parts n' tools list for what'cha have to order (only essentials, no gaskets/foam/switch accessories):

 

Keyboard Parts

• 1 × PCB
• 1 × Mounting Plate (Optional, Recommended)
• 1 × Case
• 105 × Switches (or 109, for + 4 Media Keys)
• 1 × Stabilizer Set
  • 7 × 2U Stabilizers
  • 1 × 6.25U or 7U Stabilizer (Check Compatibility with PCB + Keycap Set)
• 1 × Keycap Set (105/109 Keycaps)
• 1 × Cable

 

Tools List

• Soldering Iron + Solder (Not Needed for Hot-Swappable PCBs)
• Screwdriver
• Switch Puller (Not Needed for Installation, Required for Disassembly)
• Keycap Puller (Not Needed for Installation, Required for Disassembly)

 

1 hour ago, Frownwarrior said:

• I want a keyboard of the highest quality that will last for many years and not fail me.
• I want a full layout keyboard + numeric keypad. Additional buttons are not a must. Media keys are a nice bonus but not absolutely necessary.
• The layout must match the Swiss standard SN 074021: 1999. (critical) (I have problems finding suitable keycaps with a swiss layout.)
• The keyboard should be significantly quieter than my current one with MX Blue
• RBG is optional, but backlighting is required.
• I'm open to the switch typ.

Hm... For custom full-size ISO keyboards that aren't tied up in group buys/pre-orders, the GMMK ISO is probably the only option I can think of, off the top of my head.

• The Glorious GMMK - ISO (Barebones) (Available for €74.90 from Caseking): ISO layout and has RGB, but keep in mind it has very limited programmability. Highly unlikely that it has any support for Swiss layouts. Although, a German layout for the GMMK - ISO exists, if that's an acceptable comprimise.

Unfortunately, custom keyboards in full-size layouts are not very common, outside of group buys/pre-orders with obnoxious lead times. To my knowledge, there aren't any keeb group buys going on right now for full-size layouts.

 

A popular alternative (and what I would recommend, in your case) is to take an existing pre-built mechanical keyboard, and to "customize" that by replacing its switches and keycaps with aftermarket options. Others might be able to help you out with pre-built keyboard recommendations; that... isn't my area of interest (I'm partial towards customs ). If, however, you'd like to know whether a particular pre-built is "of the highest quality," as you put it, I can offer my own opinion/semi-analysis/critique of the product.

 

I also did find a link that might be a useful resource, for Swiss folks looking to get into the custom keeb scene:

• Swiss Shopping Guide - Mechanical Keyboards: Lists some keyboard manufacturers that sell Swiss-layout keyboards, as well as suggests advice on where to source Swiss-layout keycap sets (and keyboard parts in general) from.

 

As for whom to purchase custom keyboard parts and switch parts from (Europe + Worldwide Vendors):

• CandyKeys: Germany-Based Store.
  • Mechanical Keyboards | Cases | Keycaps | PCBs | Plates | Stabilizers | Switches
• KBDfans: China-Based Store. Worldwide Shipping.
  • Keyboard Kits | Cases | Keycaps | PCBs | Plates | Stabilizers | Switches
• Keycapsss: Germany-Based Store.
  • Keyboard Kits | Cases | Keycaps | PCBs | Switches
• KEYGEM: Germany-Based Store.
  • Cases | Keycaps | PCBs | Plates | Stabilizers | Switches
• KPrepublic: China-Based Store. Free Worldwide Shipping.
  • Keyboards | Keyboard Kits | Cases | Keycaps | PCBs | Plates | Stabilizers | Switches
• mykeyboard.eu: Belgium-Based Store.
  • Keyboards | Keyboard Kits | Keycaps | Stabilizers | Switches

Note that the above is not a comprehensive list.

 

1 hour ago, Frownwarrior said:

• The keyboard should be significantly quieter than my current one with MX Blue
• I'm open to the switch typ.

Hm. I can suggest an overly-general list of well-received switches, but it's difficult to recommend a particular switch without knowing more details about your preferences. Will cross off clicky switches from the overly-general list, since you've voiced your dissatisfaction with clicky Blues.

• Tactile: Hako Royal Clears, Hako Royal Trues, Durock T1s, Gazzew U4 Bobas, Zealio V2s.
• Linear: Gateron Ink Reds/Yellows/Blacks, NovelKeys Creams, C³ Tangerines.

[Frownwarrior]

Thanks everyone for your very usefull tips!

 

15 hours ago, Drama Lama said:

would you have a problem with getting blanc keycaps? ( I mean it's only an option if you can touchtype and don't need " normies " using the computer

 

if you want some information on custom keebs:

 

I can touchtype but I don't want blanc keykaps I like the prints on them xD

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Narmonteam said:

Swiss gang! Also looking into getting a mech so I do know the feeling

Your only option (unless you want to search for limited run keycaps) is the tai hao blue moon kit, or a blank keycap set. Since the layout is set in software you could technically have any keycaps, aslong as you know where which symbol is. 

 

As for switches, have a look at this handy flowchart, but at the end of the day, it's preference. There isn't really any benefit to any of them concerning gaming. 

 

For the Board, I'd suggest the CU80, which is currently on group buy with a seperate numpad. Otherwise, the GMMK fits the description, but it really doesn't do the budget justice.

 

 

the tai hao blue looks nice too bad its out of stock. German layout is also fine. 

 

I think I try out switches that are like MX Speed or MX Silent. I knwo that some people say that Cherry ist not the best of the best. Do others have something like MX Speed or Silent?

 

105-Key ISO Custom Cherry MX Keycap Set - WASD Keyboards This website sells custom keycaps but its looks like that they are not translucent. I would love to have the light shine through the caps.

the CU80 looks nice, but I want a fullsize one. I use daily the numpad and I don't want two devices. 

 

 

15 hours ago, seon123 said:

How would you define "quality" in this case? While not custom, Topre keyboards should be more reliable than contact based switches. But realistically, reliability should not be a concern either way.

Typically, custom keyboards are 40% and up to 1800, with pretty much no options for full sized keyboards. You could check out 96-key or 1800 layout, to see if that's something you would be fine with?

The physical layout looks like it's just standard ISO, so that should not be a major issue. For keycaps, Glorious has a set for €20, but it's just standard, low quality, laser etched ABS. Worse than what you find on €30 mechs, and same as e.g. on the K95, Blackwidow, SS Apex, etc. Another option is to just go for blank keycaps.

That does not say much. Do you just not want clicky switches, or do you want silenced switches?

 

 

If you are fine with 96-key, you could check out the XD96 or YMDK96. Both of these support per key LEDs, so that's a bunch more to solder. In addition to the PCB, case and plate, you'd need switches (based on requirements), stabilisers (Durock ones are good), some lube for the stabilisers (dielectric grease/superlube is fine), keycaps (based on requirements), through hole LEDs (1.8mm or 3mm), and just a cable to connect it to your PC.

 

 

Then, optionally, you could get lube for the switches (and a brush, maybe a stem holder or lubing station (extra optional, switch films and replacement springs)), some band aid to dampen the stabs, some foam to put inside the case, and some foam to put between the PCB and plate. That should cover it, I think?

I define quality with a keyboard that last me at least as long as my Razer one. It should be durable. I'm in love with all the beautiful aluminum keyboards. I really want one xD

 

The 1800 is an interessting option. It would be also sutibal. 

 

 

15 hours ago, Eschew said:

Hey there.

For custom keyboards, this'll be your standard parts n' tools list for what'cha have to order (only essentials, no gaskets/foam/switch accessories):

 

Keyboard Parts

• 1 × PCB
• 1 × Mounting Plate (Optional, Recommended)
• 1 × Case
• 105 × Switches (or 109, for + 4 Media Keys)
• 1 × Stabilizer Set
  • 7 × 2U Stabilizers
  • 1 × 6.25U or 7U Stabilizer (Check Compatibility with PCB + Keycap Set)
• 1 × Keycap Set (105/109 Keycaps)
• 1 × Cable

 

Tools List

• Soldering Iron + Solder (Not Needed for Hot-Swappable PCBs)
• Screwdriver
• Switch Puller (Not Needed for Installation, Required for Disassembly)
• Keycap Puller (Not Needed for Installation, Required for Disassembly)

 

Hm... For custom full-size ISO keyboards that aren't tied up in group buys/pre-orders, the GMMK ISO is probably the only option I can think of, off the top of my head.

• The Glorious GMMK - ISO (Barebones) (Available for €74.90 from Caseking): ISO layout and has RGB, but keep in mind it has very limited programmability. Highly unlikely that it has any support for Swiss layouts. Although, a German layout for the GMMK - ISO exists, if that's an acceptable comprimise.

Unfortunately, custom keyboards in full-size layouts are not very common, outside of group buys/pre-orders with obnoxious lead times. To my knowledge, there aren't any keeb group buys going on right now for full-size layouts.

 

A popular alternative (and what I would recommend, in your case) is to take an existing pre-built mechanical keyboard, and to "customize" that by replacing its switches and keycaps with aftermarket options. Others might be able to help you out with pre-built keyboard recommendations; that... isn't my area of interest (I'm partial towards customs ). If, however, you'd like to know whether a particular pre-built is "of the highest quality," as you put it, I can offer my own opinion/semi-analysis/critique of the product.

 

I also did find a link that might be a useful resource, for Swiss folks looking to get into the custom keeb scene:

• Swiss Shopping Guide - Mechanical Keyboards: Lists some keyboard manufacturers that sell Swiss-layout keyboards, as well as suggests advice on where to source Swiss-layout keycap sets (and keyboard parts in general) from.

 

As for whom to purchase custom keyboard parts and switch parts from (Europe + Worldwide Vendors):

• CandyKeys: Germany-Based Store.
  • Mechanical Keyboards | Cases | Keycaps | PCBs | Plates | Stabilizers | Switches
• KBDfans: China-Based Store. Worldwide Shipping.
  • Keyboard Kits | Cases | Keycaps | PCBs | Plates | Stabilizers | Switches
• Keycapsss: Germany-Based Store.
  • Keyboard Kits | Cases | Keycaps | PCBs | Switches
• KEYGEM: Germany-Based Store.
  • Cases | Keycaps | PCBs | Plates | Stabilizers | Switches
• KPrepublic: China-Based Store. Free Worldwide Shipping.
  • Keyboards | Keyboard Kits | Cases | Keycaps | PCBs | Plates | Stabilizers | Switches
• mykeyboard.eu: Belgium-Based Store.
  • Keyboards | Keyboard Kits | Keycaps | Stabilizers | Switches

Note that the above is not a comprehensive list.

 

Hm. I can suggest an overly-general list of well-received switches, but it's difficult to recommend a particular switch without knowing more details about your preferences. Will cross off clicky switches from the overly-general list, since you've voiced your dissatisfaction with clicky Blues.

• Tactile: Hako Royal Clears, Hako Royal Trues, Durock T1s, Gazzew U4 Bobas, Zealio V2s.
• Linear: Gateron Ink Reds/Yellows/Blacks, NovelKeys Creams, C³ Tangerines.

wow thank you very much. 

 

So many information :D

 

I know that the 105 Layout is "only" common in like half EU but I didn't expect it to be so complicated :D

 

Keyboard Parts 

• 1 × PCB 
• 1 × Mounting Plate (Optional, Recommended)
• 1 × Case
• 105 × Switches (or 109, for + 4 Media Keys)
• 1 × Stabilizer Set
  • 7 × 2U Stabilizers
  • 1 × 6.25U or 7U Stabilizer (Check Compatibility with PCB + Keycap Set)
• 1 × Keycap Set (105/109 Keycaps)
• 1 × Cable

Are there any parts which you would generally recommend? Like this PCB from brand xyz is the best für 105 keys or this brand has the best and nicest cases ... something like this

I'm still searching for good key switches. But i still don't knwo which one are good  xD

[Frownwarrior]

Alopow 108 100% Mechanical keyboard wooden case rgb type c usb-c softw – KPrepublic this one looks really nice. does anyone know if its possbile to only buy the case and pcb ? 

[Eschew]

3 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

Are there any parts which you would generally recommend? Like this PCB from brand xyz is the best für 105 keys or this brand has the best and nicest cases ... something like this

Ah... If I knew of any full-size, ISO-layout PCBs or keyboard kits, I'd have linked to them in the earlier post. Although, as seon mentioned, custom keebs with the 1800-layout (community likes to market them as "90%" or "95%") are definitely more ubiquitous than ones that are full-size (100%). Also on the topic of availability -- if you're shopping for parts as individual pieces (as opposed to buying a keyboard kit, or customizing a pre-built), you'll definitely run into trouble looking for full-size PCBs, mounting plates, and cases. Switches, stabilizers, and cables are easier to find. As for keycaps... I'm thinking the easiest route to get Swiss-layout keycaps would be to have places like WASD Keyboards or MAX Keyboards print out a set of custom-designed keycaps.

 

Recommendations (Read: Opinions)

• 95% Keyboards: Less of a recommendations list, and more of a "these are the ones I could find," list. Do note that unless a keyboard/PCB is explicitly stated as hot-swappable, most will require the switches to be soldered in.
  • Drop (Drop SHIFT): Currently sold out, but I believe the Drop SHIFT might come back for another round. No keyboard kits for the SHIFT, unfortunately, so it'll come bundled with the default keycaps and your choice of switches (Cherry MX, Kailh, Drop Halo). And it has no compatiblity with ISO layouts -- the SHIFT is ANSI only.
  • KBDfans (Odin Keyboard (IC), KBD19X Keyboard, KBD19X Kit, TOFU96 Kit): KBDfans offers a selection of pre-assembled and DIY keyboard kits, but most seem to be sold out and I'm uncertain whether they'll ever be back in production. The Odin keyboard is currently in Interest Check phase, not in production yet; if you're interested in purchasing the keyboard/keyboard kit and getting caught up in a pre-order/group buy, I'd suggest hitting the "Notify Me" button.
  • KPrepublic (XD96 PCB, XD96 Case): Odd layout, but it does support ISO (programmable in both KLE and QMK). Very skeptical as to whether either the PCB or case comes with the compatible mounting plate that's shown in the product photos. It isn't explicitly listed, so I'ma say "no." 
• Stabilizers: If possible and if it's compatible with your PCB, I'd opt for screw-in stabilizers rather than plate-mounted ones. Durock stabs have been highly praised; Cherry, GMK, and Gateron stabs reportedly have rattling issues. Uncertain about Everglide stabs, or stabs from other manufacturers.
• Keycaps: I'd always recommend PBT material over ABS material keycaps, but that's just my personal preference. For keycap "brands," eh... It's usually less about the manufacturer, and more about the keyset's build quality, physical profile, and color reproduction? If I had to name names, I've been enjoying my PBT blank keycaps from EnjoyPBT (heh. enjoy. ), and I've heard many praise ABS keycaps from GMK (they are expensive, however). Cheap keycaps from Aliexpress, Amazon, and other marketplaces have very mixed feedback -- I wouldn't recommend it, unless you enjoy making repeat purchases on items.

 

3 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

I'm still searching for good key switches. But i still don't knwo which one are good  xD

Hm. We can also go about this another way: if you find a list of switches you're interested in, post that list (hopefully it isn't excessively long? ), and the community here can offer feedback? Just, in general, the custom keeb community isn't very fond of Cherry MX switches -- usually because for the same or lower price, there are dozens of other switches that are smoother, clickier, have sharper tactility, are less wobbly, have exciting colorways, or are generally more interesting.

 

It's also very difficult to making sweeping statements like "Brand A is good, Brand B is bad," because a switch manufacturer's product lineup is of mixed quality. Outemu, for instance. Outemu Reds/Browns/Blues are generally considered cheap and adequate enough, but their Outemu Skys have been well-received, and Gazzew's U4 Boba (manufactured by Outemu) are also highly praised.

 

3 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

Alopow 108 100% Mechanical keyboard wooden case rgb type c usb-c softw – KPrepublic this one looks really nice. does anyone know if its possbile to only buy the case and pcb ? 

Ah... Drop used to sell a similar keyboard kit: AoPo AP108 Wooden Mechanical Keyboard Kit. Do note that it received very bad reviews; most purchasers pointed out issues with the PCB and assembly process. If you're interested, you could probably sign up on Drop's site and hit the "Request" button, but with the small quantities it sold and with how few requesters there are, I doubt it'd come back in production. Otherwise, I don't know of any vendors that are currently offering the Alopow 108 as a keyboard kit, or that are selling the AoPo AP108 kit.

 

Also, I could be mistaken, but that particular keyboard only seems to support ANSI layout, and I don't see any options to change the keyboard's layout in the software screenshots.

[seon123]

3 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

I'm still searching for good key switches. But i still don't knwo which one are good  xD

If only there were people trying to give you recommendations... It's almost as if it's personal preference, and that people can't give meaningful recommendations without knowing your preferences. If you actually want help, it helps to actually read the replies you get.

 

 

20 hours ago, Narmonteam said:

As for switches, have a look at this handy flowchart, but at the end of the day, it's preference. There isn't really any benefit to any of them concerning gaming. 

 

20 hours ago, seon123 said:

That does not say much. Do you just not want clicky switches, or do you want silenced switches?

 

20 hours ago, Eschew said:

Hm. I can suggest an overly-general list of well-received switches, but it's difficult to recommend a particular switch without knowing more details about your preferences. Will cross off clicky switches from the overly-general list, since you've voiced your dissatisfaction with clicky Blues.

• Tactile: Hako Royal Clears, Hako Royal Trues, Durock T1s, Gazzew U4 Bobas, Zealio V2s.
• Linear: Gateron Ink Reds/Yellows/Blacks, NovelKeys Creams, C³ Tangerines.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

105-Key ISO Custom Cherry MX Keycap Set - WASD Keyboards This website sells custom keycaps but its looks like that they are not translucent. I would love to have the light shine through the caps.

 

20 hours ago, seon123 said:

For keycaps, Glorious has a set for €20

In case you somehow had issues finding it.

https://www.caseking.de/en/glorious-pc-gaming-race-abs-keycaps-105-st.-schwarz-iso-ch-layout-gakc-061.html

3 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

Are there any parts which you would generally recommend? Like this PCB from brand xyz is the best für 105 keys or this brand has the best and nicest cases ... something like this

No one should ever just recommend by brand. That's just something <12 year old fanboys like to do. Just look at individual product recommendations instead. If you also want something that's the best, you'd likely have to increase your budget by quite a bit, as custom mechs can go quite high in price.

3 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

Alopow 108 100% Mechanical keyboard wooden case rgb type c usb-c softw – KPrepublic this one looks really nice. does anyone know if its possbile to only buy the case and pcb ? 

That's just a complete keyboard. So no. Just like you can't just buy the case and PCB for e.g. a Razer Blackwidow.

[Frownwarrior]

On 2/25/2021 at 5:49 PM, Eschew said:

Recommendations (Read: Opinions)

• 95% Keyboards: Less of a recommendations list, and more of a "these are the ones I could find," list. Do note that unless a keyboard/PCB is explicitly stated as hot-swappable, most will require the switches to be soldered in.
  • Drop (Drop SHIFT): Currently sold out, but I believe the Drop SHIFT might come back for another round. No keyboard kits for the SHIFT, unfortunately, so it'll come bundled with the default keycaps and your choice of switches (Cherry MX, Kailh, Drop Halo). And it has no compatiblity with ISO layouts -- the SHIFT is ANSI only.
  • KBDfans (Odin Keyboard (IC), KBD19X Keyboard, KBD19X Kit, TOFU96 Kit): KBDfans offers a selection of pre-assembled and DIY keyboard kits, but most seem to be sold out and I'm uncertain whether they'll ever be back in production. The Odin keyboard is currently in Interest Check phase, not in production yet; if you're interested in purchasing the keyboard/keyboard kit and getting caught up in a pre-order/group buy, I'd suggest hitting the "Notify Me" button.
  • KPrepublic (XD96 PCB, XD96 Case): Odd layout, but it does support ISO (programmable in both KLE and QMK). Very skeptical as to whether either the PCB or case comes with the compatible mounting plate that's shown in the product photos. It isn't explicitly listed, so I'ma say "no." 
• Keycaps: I'd always recommend PBT material over ABS material keycaps, but that's just my personal preference. 

It's also very difficult to making sweeping statements like "Brand A is good, Brand B is bad," because a switch manufacturer's product lineup is of mixed quality. Outemu, for instance. Outemu Reds/Browns/Blues are generally considered cheap and adequate enough, but their Outemu Skys have been well-received, and Gazzew's U4 Boba (manufactured by Outemu) are also highly praised.

 

 

Thank you again for your help.

The 95% keyboards look cramped not sure if I will like it but I think they will work to. I just have to get use to it I guess. 

The KBD19X looks nice. Do I understand it right, it is ISO compatible? What I don't like is the mini-USB interface. 

 

What I mean by brand recommendations is like what brad do you have the most trust. Like I only recommend and buy for my customers Seasonic power supplies. Why ? I build pc for almost 20 years. Most Corsair or Silverstone power supplies failed while I had not a single Seasonic on that failed on me. Thats what I meant with recommendations of good brands. 

 

On 2/25/2021 at 6:18 PM, seon123 said:

If only there were people trying to give you recommendations... It's almost as if it's personal preference, and that people can't give meaningful recommendations without knowing your preferences. If you actually want help, it helps to actually read the replies you get.

 

No one should ever just recommend by brand. That's just something <12 year old fanboys like to do. Just look at individual product recommendations instead. If you also want something that's the best, you'd likely have to increase your budget by quite a bit, as custom mechs can go quite high in price.

That's just a complete keyboard. So no. Just like you can't just buy the case and PCB for e.g. a Razer Blackwidow.

 

I googled a lot and I narrowed down:

I looking for:

Switches that are like a mix of MX Speed Silver and MX Silent. I would prefer tactile switches but i don't want to have the noise anymore.

Backlight on my switches. I don't care about RGB but it must have a keybacklight. 

ISO compatible. 95%, 105 or 1800 are fine. USB-C!

I would prefer a DIY Kit because I think it would be fun to build a keyboard but assembled is also fine. 

 

Did I miss something? I hope its now more clear for what I'm looking for. 

[Eschew]

6 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

The KBD19X looks nice. Do I understand it right, it is ISO compatible? What I don't like is the mini-USB interface. 

Mm-hmm. The board's keys can be re-programmed through QMK firmware, if you'd like to swap it from ANSI to ISO layout.  And, yes, the KBD19X (in its current revision) appears to use a mini-USB port. Uncertain whether KBDfans will ever release a new revision of the board with USB Type-C (or if the board will ever come back into production).

 

6 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

What I mean by brand recommendations is like what brad do you have the most trust.

If we're still talking about custom keyboards, I think many serious keeb enthusiasts (as well as myself) will answer you: We... don't that that here.  The short answer, if I might paraphrase from my earlier post, is brand reputation has very little correlation with product quality, quality control, customer support, etc.

 

The prebuilt market is more willing and ready to do product recommendations based on brand names. Custom keeb community? Nooot so much.

 

Most custom keeb enthusiasts are more concerned about the individual product, than flaunting brand names. Some items don't even carry manufacturer stamps -- keyboard cases and mounting plates, for example. We can suggest and link to specific products, based on a short description of personal preferences or a list of expectations (as I've done so earlier, with the keebs and switches?). But every keyboard/switch/parts manufacturer, and even individual vendors/storefronts, has products that someone, somewhere will find flaws with. There isn't a single brand or manufacturer that we trust implicitly.

 

If you're worried about the product breaking or malfunctioning after a period, like your experience with power supplies, I can't say that I've come across many keeb "failure" stories. Most custom keeb parts -- PCB, plates, cases, switches -- are fairly durable, able to withstand the stress of multiple assemblies and disassemblies. Usually, the biggest issue is compatibility, rather than poor production quality, I think. And in the event that a subpar product reaches a customer's hands, a short message to customer service should resolve the problem fairly quickly; the custom keeb market relies a lot on happy return customers, so most vendors do their utmost to leave their people satisfied.

 

I can point you to vendors and storefronts that people have bought from and can vouch for (see above post); I'm afraid I can't recommend a keyboard part, mechanical switch, or other individual product based solely on a brand's reputation.

 

6 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

Switches that are like a mix of MX Speed Silver and MX Silent. I would prefer tactile switches but i don't want to have the noise anymore.

Backlight on my switches. I don't care about RGB but it must have a keybacklight. 

Note: Deliberately snipped out the keyboard layouts and DIY kit/assembled parts, because I feel I've presented my opinions/suggestions for those previously.

 

... That description is a tad on a vague side, methinks. Questions for clarification:

• When you mention MX Speed Silver, are you specifically interested in its short travel distance (distance the switch stem travels between the switch at rest and bottom out), or some other feature?
• Both the MX Speed Silver and MX Silent are linear switches, which very lightly contradicts your stated preference for tactile switches. Are you looking for linear or tactile, or at both?

Other notes:

• Assuming that the switches are either tactile or linear (not clicky), keyboard acoustics are more heavily dependent on the keyboard than the switch -- "keyboard," as in, mounting plate, case, any gaskets/foam, plus keycaps. "Silent" switches are usually outfitted with small cushions attached to the switch stem -- meant to soften the keystroke when bottoming out -- which can help with keyboard noise, but is not the only variable affecting that noise.
• Keyboard lighting is usually handled by the LEDs soldered into the keyboard's PCB, not the individual switches. The switches, at best, only affect how bright/dull/even/uneven the lighting appears, as the LEDs shine their light through the switch's housings.

 

Preliminary Recommendations (Read: Opinions)

Selection Criteria: Transparent/Semi-Transparent Housings (for lighting), Cushioned.

• Tactile: Zeal Zilents (Silent Tactile), Gateron Aliaz's (Silent Tactile).
• Linear: Silent Alpacas, Gazzew Bobagums (Note: Opaque Housings), Gateron Silent Red/Yellow/Black (Note: Opaque Housings).

[Frownwarrior]

Thank you for your awesome help. 

 

I'm interesred in MX Silver for the short travel distance. I play mostly MOBA-games and it might be just marketingi but I would still like to try them out. I like tactile feel but for my new keyboard I want to focus on "quiet/ silent", "quality", looks and "customizable". I'm open to try out linear switches. 

 

How hard is it to replace the switches on a keyboard. I guess if I buy a keyboard that has MX switches, I could only replace it with other MX right ?

 

 

[Eschew]

8 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

How hard is it to replace the switches on a keyboard.

Replacing switches isn't too difficult, especially for hot-swappable boards:

Spoiler

GMMK Keyboard - Switch Removal

Literally just, pinch the switch with the switch remover's little prongs, then yoink! it out.

Soldered boards are a teeny bit more of a hassle, just need to do some a lot of desoldering and re-soldering (and have that equipment lying around and ready-to-go in the first place) if you wanna replace all the switches with other ones.

 

8 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

I guess if I buy a keyboard that has MX switches, I could only replace it with other MX right ?

If by "MX switches," you mean "mechanical switches," then yes. Sticking to "Cherry MX"-brand switches is not necessary, however. Kailh, Gateron, Outemu -- so on and so forth -- should be fine, provided you know whether the PCB has sockets for plate-mounted or PCB-mounted switches, and you purchase compatible switches (or mod them to be compatible).

 

On 1/1/2021 at 9:41 AM, Eschew said:

Left: Plate-Mounted (3-Pin) Socket. Right: PCB-Mounted (5-Pin) Socket.

 

Left: Plate-Mounted (3-Pin) Switch. Right: PCB-Mounted (5-Pin) Switch.

 

To clarify on plate-mounted/PCB-mounted compatibility:

• A keyboard equipped with PCB-mounted sockets will accomodate both PCB-mounted switches and plate-mounted switches.
• A keyboard equipped with plate-mounted sockets will accomodate only plate-mounted switches, but PCB-mounted switches can be modded into plate-mounted switches.
• To convert a PCB-mounted switch to a plate-mounted switch, simply snip off the two plastic prongs to either side of the large plastic nub in the middle. Do note that this mod is irreversible.

TLDR: If you buy the "wrong" type of switch for your keyboard's PCB, you aren't entirely screwed. Just might need a bit of DIY to get things to fit the way you want 'em to.

[geo3]

9 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

I'm interesred in MX Silver for the short travel distance.

This is mostly a gimmick.  It's not going to make you faster in games. If you just want to press lighter a light spring switch will better server that purpose. Unless you've tried them are really can tell the difference of a shorter travel I'd say there are a lot better switches out there that are easier to acquire.  

 

Also Kailh has a line of "speed" switches that are better than MX Silvers if you really really want short throw switches. 

[geo3]

4 hours ago, pixxel said:

However, lubing a click jacket switch will ruin the feel and click entirely.

Click bar switches don't sufferer from this limitation. 

 

4 hours ago, pixxel said:

The 2 most popular ones are Krytox 205g0 and Trybosis 3203. Krytox is a thick lube that works really well for linears and can really bring a switch to life. Trybosis is a thinner lube meant for tactiles.

Actually the number specifies the viscosity.

Roughly:

Krytox 203g0 = Trybosis 3203

Krytox 204g0 = Trybosis 3204

Krytox 205g0 = Trybosis 3205 (if it existed)

 

A lot of people, myself included, find Trybosis a nicer quality lube, but only just barely. 

[Frownwarrior]

On 3/10/2021 at 7:15 PM, Eschew said:

Replacing switches isn't too difficult, especially for hot-swappable boards:

  Reveal hidden contents

GMMK Keyboard - Switch Removal

Literally just, pinch the switch with the switch remover's little prongs, then yoink! it out.

Soldered boards are a teeny bit more of a hassle, just need to do some a lot of desoldering and re-soldering (and have that equipment lying around and ready-to-go in the first place) if you wanna replace all the switches with other ones.

 

If by "MX switches," you mean "mechanical switches," then yes. Sticking to "Cherry MX"-brand switches is not necessary, however. Kailh, Gateron, Outemu -- so on and so forth -- should be fine, provided you know whether the PCB has sockets for plate-mounted or PCB-mounted switches, and you purchase compatible switches (or mod them to be compatible).

 

 

Left: Plate-Mounted (3-Pin) Switch. Right: PCB-Mounted (5-Pin) Switch.

 

To clarify on plate-mounted/PCB-mounted compatibility:

• A keyboard equipped with PCB-mounted sockets will accomodate both PCB-mounted switches and plate-mounted switches.
• A keyboard equipped with plate-mounted sockets will accomodate only plate-mounted switches, but PCB-mounted switches can be modded into plate-mounted switches.
• To convert a PCB-mounted switch to a plate-mounted switch, simply snip off the two plastic prongs to either side of the large plastic nub in the middle. Do note that this mod is irreversible.

TLDR: If you buy the "wrong" type of switch for your keyboard's PCB, you aren't entirely screwed. Just might need a bit of DIY to get things to fit the way you want 'em to.

Thanks again for your answer. So I think I got all the information I need to find something for me. Only hard part is, to find something that looks and feels nice and is ISO... oh and in stock.... xD

 

On 3/10/2021 at 7:42 PM, geo3 said:

This is mostly a gimmick.  It's not going to make you faster in games. If you just want to press lighter a light spring switch will better server that purpose. Unless you've tried them are really can tell the difference of a shorter travel I'd say there are a lot better switches out there that are easier to acquire.  

 

Also Kailh has a line of "speed" switches that are better than MX Silvers if you really really want short throw switches. 

 

You might be right... maybe I just place 4-6 switches on QWERDF or so with a speed switch and the rest maybe with silent switches....ikd...

 

On 3/12/2021 at 4:03 PM, pixxel said:

The mech scene has gotten huge recently, I'm really glad that more people are getting interested in this hobby!

 

I am new to this hobby and just build my first board, but as a first timer I have some recommendations to look for :3

 

Look for a hotswap pcb, this basically means that you will not have to solder in switches to your board, which saves a massive amount of time and extra savings. Hotswap will also allow you to take out switches and try some new ones whenever you want!

 

Another important part of customs is lubing switches. This is very important because for most switches lube can really make a night and day difference in feel and sound. Lube is especially important for linear switches, and can make a good difference on tactiles as well. However, lubing a clicky switch will ruin the feel and click entirely. There are many different types of lube as well. The 2 most popular ones are Krytox 205g0 and Trybosis 3203. Krytox is a thick lube that works really well for linears and can really bring a switch to life. Trybosis is a thinner lube meant for tactiles. Using a thick lube can reduce tactility on the switch, but again feel is all preference and many people like a smoother and less tactile bump. But for a first timer, I'd suggest krytox for linears and trybosis for tactiles :3

Thank you for the tip. I did not look into lube yet.

[Frownwarrior]

I think, I found something: 

YMD 96 Kit 2 ÜBER QMK Aluminium CNC Top Bottom Messing Gewicht Hot Swap Typ C PCB Für Kirsche MX Mechanische Tastatur DIY Kit|Tastaturen| - AliExpress

 

If I understand them right, they offer Case, Plate and PCB with ISO. They also mount the LEDs for you if you order them. 

The only thing I would need are switches and keycaps, right ?

 

Do you guys have any experience with this brand? What do I have to look for with PCBs? Like N-Key rollover or other functions?

[Eschew]

5 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

YMD 96 Kit 2 ÜBER QMK Aluminium CNC Top Bottom Messing Gewicht Hot Swap Typ C PCB Für Kirsche MX Mechanische Tastatur DIY Kit|Tastaturen| - AliExpress

 

If I understand them right, they offer Case, Plate and PCB with ISO.

The only thing I would need are switches and keycaps, right ?

Yes, the Aliexpress listing includes the case, plate, PCB, and stabilizers, all that's left to buy is switches and keycaps. Layout A and Layout D specifically are ISO layout, the only difference between them being the bottom row.

 

5 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

They also mount the LEDs for you if you order them.

Is this information you received directly from the seller, or is it discretely mentioned in their listing? Perhaps I haven't looked hard enough, but their listing doesn't seem to include LED-soldering services if you bundle your purchases together. In regards to LEDs, all they've suggested is:

Quote

...we will ship them [the LEDs] together with the 96 Kit's shipping method. As such, if you choose DHL for 96 kit, and China post for the switch's LEDs, we will ship them all via DHL.

Plus, if you visit YMDK's site and look up their Melody96 listing:

Quote

If you want switch LEDs, we suggest you use 2x3x4 square LEDs. You will need to solder them in yourself.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

5 hours ago, Frownwarrior said:

What do I have to look for with PCBs? Like N-Key rollover or other functions?

• Hotswap Sockets: If you care about hot-swapping switches into your board.
• LEDs: If you care about RGB.
• QMK Firmware Compatibility: If you care about user-friendly re-programmability or assigning custom macros and/or multiple layers to your board.
• PCB-Mounted Stabilizer Compatibility: If you prefer PCB-mounted or screw-in stabilizers over plate-mounted stabilizers.
• USB Type-C Port: If you prefer USB Type-C connectors over Micro-USB ones.

...Rollover is usually a nonissue with custom keebs. I'd like to say most come with 6KRO, which is more than adequate for most. In the event pressing down 6 keys simultaneously is not enough, macros can be used to work around said limitation.

[Frownwarrior]

1 hour ago, Eschew said:

Yes, the Aliexpress listing includes the case, plate, PCB, and stabilizers, all that's left to buy is switches and keycaps. Layout A and Layout D specifically are ISO layout, the only difference between them being the bottom row.

 

Is this information you received directly from the seller, or is it discretely mentioned in their listing? Perhaps I haven't looked hard enough, but their listing doesn't seem to include LED-soldering services if you bundle your purchases together. In regards to LEDs, all they've suggested is:

Plus, if you visit YMDK's site and look up their Melody96 listing:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

• Hotswap Sockets: If you care about hot-swapping switches into your board.
• LEDs: If you care about RGB.
• QMK Firmware Compatibility: If you care about user-friendly re-programmability or assigning custom macros and/or multiple layers to your board.
• PCB-Mounted Stabilizer Compatibility: If you prefer PCB-mounted or screw-in stabilizers over plate-mounted stabilizers.
• USB Type-C Port: If you prefer USB Type-C connectors over Micro-USB ones.

...Rollover is usually a nonissue with custom keebs. I'd like to say most come with 6KRO, which is more than adequate for most. In the event pressing down 6 keys simultaneously is not enough, macros can be used to work around said limitation.

Well on the Aliexpress website they offer this: 

Montage Service Für YMD96 YMD75 GH60 YD60M Schalter leds|Tastaturen| - AliExpress 

soo maybe I wirte an email to them first. But it looks good so far. 

 

I think I will buy something like the Kailh Copper switches. they sound not so loud. Some call them "taclinar" .... I used to see Kailh as a copycat of MX with less good quality  but I guess they are fine ?

Maybe I will buy 12 of them for my "gaming keys" and the rest maybe a silent switch... idk.

I have now some days off and I will decide on what I want to order.

 

 

 

 

[seon123]

50 minutes ago, Frownwarrior said:

I think I will buy something like the Kailh Copper switches. they sound not so loud.

How loud a keyboard is depends a lot on the keyboard itself. Not just the switches. None of the Kailh Speed/Metal switches are silenced, so they should be roughly as loud as other non-silenced, non-clicky switches.

50 minutes ago, Frownwarrior said:

Some call them "taclinar"

Who.....?

50 minutes ago, Frownwarrior said:

I used to see Kailh as a copycat of MX with less good quality  but I guess they are fine ?

Just like with any other company, they are able to produce different switches for different requirements. E.g. the Kailh made Razer switches were hot garbage, while the Box Thick clicks are considered the best MX style clicky switches. You can't generalise by brand,  we should leave that for the 12 year old fanboys out there.

 

Afaik, the Kailh speed switches are not particularly good, and I don't see why you would get them

50 minutes ago, Frownwarrior said:

Maybe I will buy 12 of them for my "gaming keys" and the rest maybe a silent switch... idk.

That's a waste of time, and using different switches for part of the keyboard will just make it weird to type on, without offering any benefits.