Average inflation of GPU price?

[Nena Trinity]

Hi everyone in my country last last year the RX 580 cost about 2200-2400kr (NOK) now the latest restock the prices have gone up to over 3500kr or more in every store? So is the average inflation about 1100kr (106euro) the average world wide?

[Radium_Angel]

13 minutes ago, Nena Trinity said:

Hi everyone in my country last last year the RX 580 cost about 2200-2400kr (NOK) now the latest restock the prices have gone up to over 3500kr or more in every store? So is the average inflation about 1100kr (106euro) the average world wide?

Difficult to say, in USALand here, I"m seeing 100% markup on video cards from places like Newegg and Amazon. The cheapest I've seen a markup was on Best Buy where it was merely 100$ over MSRP, but of course, way out of stock.

Scalpers on local sites like Craigslist are "asking" 2200$ for "new in box" 3090s, so make of that what you will.

 

Either way, it's insanity and we should not feed into this.

[Wictorian]

But I think new versions have little inflation compared to older ones, (I am talking about dollar/computing power)

[Nena Trinity]

27 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Difficult to say, in USALand here, I"m seeing 100% markup on video cards from places like Newegg and Amazon. The cheapest I've seen a markup was on Best Buy where it was merely 100$ over MSRP, but of course, way out of stock.

Scalpers on local sites like Craigslist are "asking" 2200$ for "new in box" 3090s, so make of that what you will.

 

Either way, it's insanity and we should not feed into this.

I think at the very lease 400-600kr is inflation caused by the US printing dollars and sanctions on China causing prices to increase another, in combo with parts being more expensive and shipping another 400kr maybe? So if the mining craze ends I expect the prices to at worst be about 1000-1400 over at worst? But the crazy continue since crypto miners looks at the US printing more dollars as the currency is dying proof... 

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, Nena Trinity said:

So if the mining craze ends

That's a really big if....

1 minute ago, Nena Trinity said:

US printing dollars and sanctions on China

That's not entirely accurate, it's far more complex than that, including a shortage (or inability) of GFX card RAM, Covid causing production to slow down, and so forth, but that's a topic for another thread, needless to say, mining and general production issues are the main cause 

[papajo]

44 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

mining and general production issues are the main cause 

Why is that? 

 

I mean what is the indication for that? is there any data proving that? 

 

Or is it so because everybody on the interwebs says it is so? 

[Radium_Angel]

5 minutes ago, papajo said:

Why is that? 

Bitcoin hit 30K$, mining is profitable again apparently.

https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miners-seized-electricity-iran

 

EDIT

 

https://appuals.com/amd-radeon-rx-6000-and-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3000-series-of-graphics-cards-supply-issues-partially-due-to-gddr6-memory-shortage/

 

 

[papajo]

4 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Bitcoin hit 30K$, mining is profitable again apparently.

https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-miners-seized-electricity-iran

 

Bitcoin uses ASIC miners you cant mine it with GPUs the difficulty level is too high for that.

 

Aside from that that doesnt prove anything... I mean if miners are the reason for us not finding GPUs then it means two things. 

 

Graphics card manufacturers increased production but they cant keep up with the demand = is there any proof for that as in statistics showing production increase compared to previous years? 

 

Graphics card manufacturers do not do anything and just provide the same amounts of GPUs which would mean that miners are not the reason of high prices but companies themselves. 

[Medizinmann]

This has nothing to do with "inflation" in a classical sense...i.e. average prices for a 5700XT went up from 350-400€ to 450-550€ - from 10/2020 to 01/2021.

 

It’s actually a mixture of increasing demand of the usual consumer, mining craze, production shortages, shortages in transportation and such.

 

[Medizinmann]

4 minutes ago, papajo said:

Bitcoin uses ASIC miners you cant mine it with GPUs the difficulty level is too high for that.

Not - not Bitcoin but other crypto-coins like Ethereum...

Bitcoin: Ethereum (ETH) cryptocurrency nears all-time high (cnbc.com)

 

6 minutes ago, papajo said:

Aside from that that doesnt prove anything... I mean if miners are the reason for us not finding GPUs then it means two things. 

 

Graphics card manufacturers increased production but they cant keep up with the demand = is there any proof for that as in statistics showing production increase compared to previous years? 

Nvidia sold 3080 with a worth of 175 Mio. $ directly to miners...

Nvidia Sold $175 Million Worth of GeForce RTX 30 GPUs To Crypto Miners - Tech News - Linus Tech Tips

 

7 minutes ago, papajo said:

Graphics card manufacturers do not do anything and just provide the same amounts of GPUs which would mean that miners are not the reason of high prices but companies themselves. 

As always it is a combination of things...

Samsung obviously hasn't got enough capacity as well as TSMC for AMD, mining is going up, demand for "normal" customers is acually going up, Scalpers etc. 

 

Best regards,

Medizinmann

[Radium_Angel]

9 minutes ago, papajo said:

Bitcoin uses ASIC miners you cant mine it with GPUs the difficulty level is too high for that

https://linuxhint.com/best-ethereum-mining-asics/

Apparently other coins are ASIC resistant. I'm not into the whole crypto mining craze so I don't know the ins and outs of it but it seems this is part of the issue, the other part seems to be a memory production issue, as I mentioned in my edited post

 

Someone is buying up all the cards, either to flip/scalp them or use them for other purposes. The end result is prices are high, supply is low, and the standard laws of supply/demand have taken over and things are all out of whack.

 

[papajo]

22 minutes ago, Medizinmann said:

Nvidia sold 3080 with a worth of 175 Mio. $ directly to miners...

Nvidia Sold $175 Million Worth of GeForce RTX 30 GPUs To Crypto Miners - Tech News - Linus Tech Tips

That's misinformation from the blog you linked

 

The actual barrons report was about sales up to physical year 2020 so RTX 3000 are excluded. https://www.barrons.com/articles/how-cryptocurrency-miners-boosted-nvidias-earnings-51605822391

 

On top of that 175 million is only a small chunk compared to the 2.7billion income they had on graphics cards (also mentioned in the report) or in other words $175 million accounts for 0.65% (zero point sixtyfive percent)  of the total graphics card sales revenue or in other words it serves as a proof that miners didnt play any particular role indeed as I mentioned lots of times before showing actual unit sale data in other topics 

 

Last but not least (just to add perspective) from nvidias own reports about the physical year 2010

 https://www.annualreports.com/HostedData/AnnualReportArchive/n/NASDAQ_NVDA_2010.pdf (on page 55)

 

It reports revenue of 3.3 billion dollars (btw GPUs back then were A LOT CHEAPER the flagship ones costed 400 to 500$) so in other words they sold EVEN MORE UNITS compared to the revenue of 2.7billion of 2020 because the pricetags for 2020 gpu SKUs are at least double in all ranges of products hence you need to sell less units to get into the same revenue total! 

 

Do you remember any price issues scalpers or any other shortages back in 2010 ? I surely dont! they could produce lots of GPUs just fine then and at an affordable price non the less!! 

 

[Medizinmann]

14 minutes ago, papajo said:

Last but not least (just to add perspective) from nvidias own reports about the physical year 2010 https://www.annualreports.com/HostedData/AnnualReportArchive/n/NASDAQ_NVDA_2010.pdf (on page 55)

 

It reports revenue of 3.3 billion dollars (btw GPUs back then were A LOT CHEAPER the flagship ones costed 400 to 500$) so in other words they sold EVEN MORE UNITS compared to the revenue of 2.7billion of 2020 because the pricetags for 2020 gpu SKUs are at least double in all ranges of products hence you need to sell less units to get into the same revenue total! 

Well - NVidia generated a lot more revenue in 2020 - more like 11 Billion...$2.7 was for only one fiscal quarter (for videogame sales only - whatever that means)...

NVIDIA Revenue 2006-2020 | NVDA | MacroTrends

 

But it is a really good question how many units they really sell...

 

...i.e.all high end cards(like 2080 Super, 2080 Ti, 3080 etc.) make up for only something under 3% of all users on Steam...most Games still use 1060, 1050Ti, 1070 etc...

 

So if all the 1060 owners want to upgrade now...as I said - it is a mix of all the factors.

[papajo]

12 minutes ago, Medizinmann said:

Well - NVidia generated a lot more revenue in 2020 - more like 11 Billion...$2.7 was for only one fiscal quarter (for videogame sales only - whatever that means)...

NVIDIA Revenue 2006-2020 | NVDA | MacroTrends

 

Well yes nvidia does other things too.. the figures mentioned are about graphics revenue thoough so what's your point? 

 

12 minutes ago, Medizinmann said:

But it is a really good question how many units they really sell...

And I showcased that as well noumerous times and in charts in past topics/posts here is one for reference:

 

 

 

Which includes total graphics cards sales (including AMD ) and in which you see that 2019 (the year of the miner boogeyman ) was actually a normal year in terms of units sold 

 

And in which you also can see that around 2011 the graphics card unit production was around twice the current one (which serves as an argument to "if you could produce such amounts of graphics cards back then what is the big deal to cry about if the supposed demand increased by a little now?" ) 

 

Which all indicates that this was a conscious move to increase profits by inflating pricetags through manipulating supply. Profiteering in other words. 

 

[Medizinmann]

5 minutes ago, papajo said:

Well yes nvidia does other things too.. the figures mentioned are about graphics revenue thoough so what's your point? 

Well you compared 3.3 Billion total(for all "graphics") annual to 2,7 in one Quarter for videogames alone...

And well - yes they sell GPUs to data centers too and "Pro-market" (Quadros etc.)..so I would rather add that up...

 

And yes discrete GPU in PCs declined for a while since iGPU are more common...(in the Statistica Graphics Intel sells the most GPUs...)

...desktop PC market as a whole declined for years...

But Nvidia/AMD sold more to datacenters etc.

And yes NVidia and of course AMD and Intel too want to optimize/maximize their profits...

And next question is – how fast this system can react to a increase in demand.

 

I also don't believe that their was any sensible number of 3080 or 6800xt available at launch - never...so it isn't demand alone.

[papajo]

4 minutes ago, Medizinmann said:

Well you compared 3.3 Billion total(for all "graphics") annual to 2,7 in one Quarter for videogames alone...

And well - yes they sell GPUs to data centers too and "Pro-market" (Quadros etc.)..so I would rather add that up...

 

And yes discrete GPU in PCs declined for a while since iGPU are more common...(in the Statistica Graphics Intel sells the most GPUs...)

...desktop PC market as a whole declined for years...

But Nvidia/AMD sold more to datacenters etc.

And yes NVidia and of course AMD and Intel too want to optimize/maximize their profits...

And next question is – how fast this system can react to a increase in demand.

 

I also don't believe that their was any sensible number of 3080 or 6800xt available at launch - never...so it isn't demand alone.

What do you even mean? those are the graphics card revenues they are not diffent things the numbers are different because sales werent the same in those years I compared cant you understand that ? datacenters or whatever you mention in those lines of text that are not coherent have nothing to do with that. 

 

your are just mumbling things that make no sense you are exactly what you accused me of a few post above with your satirical "dialogue"

 

 

It is simple there is no indication that GPU production has been rizen to an unforeseen state in fact it is about the same as the past few years. 

 

GPU production in previous years (e.g 2010 and 2011) was enormously higher which serves as proof that the company is capable to produce more units even if demand existed for them. 

 

Now you can pretend that you never saw or read anything about it and hate miners if that is what you prefere. 

[Medizinmann]

3 minutes ago, papajo said:

What do you even mean? those are the graphics card revenues they are not diffent things the numbers are different because sales werent the same in those years I compared cant you understand that ? datacenters or whatever you mention in those lines of text that are not coherent have nothing to do with that. 

 

I wanted to say that Nvidia has steered their capacities in another direction...yes – too maximize profits and yes because demand for discrete GPUs went down as PC-desktops sales went down…but they still produce/assemble a lot of GPUs.

 

3 minutes ago, papajo said:

your are just mumbling things that make no sense you are exactly what you accused me of a few post above with your satirical "dialogue"

Sorry - this is a misunderstanding...never mend to accuse you of anything. Sorry, again I am not a native speaker.

 

5 minutes ago, papajo said:

It is simple there is no indication that GPU production has been rizen to an unforeseen state in fact it is about the same as the past few years. 

 

GPU production in previous years (e.g 2010 and 2011) was enormously higher which serves as proof that the company is capable to produce more units even if demand existed for them. 

Well - yes they could - but they distributed their capacities differently. Question is can they just order/produce more chips with a flip of a switch or do they actually need more time - BTW: same goes for AMD... 

 

And yes they all want to maximize their profits.

 

6 minutes ago, papajo said:

Now you can pretend that you never saw or read anything about it and hate miners if that is what you prefere. 

I am totally with you - just wanted to say it is a multitude of things(by no means miners alone) and yeah maybe a bit more on the side of companies which try to get better profits/higher margins all in all...

 

And of course at some point Nvidia/AMD/Intel should be able to meet demand at some point - and prices should "normalize".

 

If they don't...well - then your statment "a conscious move to increase profits" comes in 100%...