EQ and settings to make shots less painful

[Holo]

Hello, i just bought used Beyerdynamic Custom Pro headphones to play games with, i dont have a sound card yet, i will buy a good one when i save up some money, for now i have to connect it to my mobo or monitor.

They sound great tho, music, videos, even games for most part. Other than Apex Legends, game i play the most, where everything is fine until i have to shoot, sound of guns is actualy giving me headaches, i cant play on normal volume for more than couple minutes, every shot is like someone is driving nails into my ears, i have to turn sound down so low i cant literally hear anything else.

 

I've read that there are EQ programs you can use to change how headphones sound. Unfortunately i have zero clue on which one to chose and how they work, wouldnt even know where to begin. Ive looked for similar topics on various forums, cant find anything that would be helpful, just some dedicated programs for specific headsets people are using (like Logitech, Steelseries etc) and no actual settings.

 

Im desperate at the moment, i dont wanty to sell them but i dont think i will have a choice as the only game i actualy play almost everyday is a horrible experience. I would be very grateful for help. And sorry for my english, its not my first language (guess its obvious). 

[Kilrah]

Can't you adjsut the sound effects volumes separately in the game?

[Holo]

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

Can't you adjsut the sound effects volumes separately in the game?

 

Well, no. First of all, there is no separate "shots volume", and turning down sound effects will turn down footsteps etc, so its almost as useless as turning down everything in windows.

Second of all, even if there was separate "shots volume", it would turn down enemy shots too so i wouldnt know that someone is fighting in the area.

 

I dont need to turn them down, at least not all of them, just make them less ... harsh, i think would be the right word. There should be some frequency responsible for it, that these headphones make louder.

[The Torrent]

1 hour ago, Holo said:

 

Well, no. First of all, there is no separate "shots volume", and turning down sound effects will turn down footsteps etc, so its almost as useless as turning down everything in windows.

Second of all, even if there was separate "shots volume", it would turn down enemy shots too so i wouldnt know that someone is fighting in the area.

 

I dont need to turn them down, at least not all of them, just make them less ... harsh, i think would be the right word. There should be some frequency responsible for it, that these headphones make louder.

Download Equalizer APO

https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

(You can also use Peace or other stuff if you want but i persoanlly prefer APO)

 

And then just mess around with a graphic eq until it sounds gucci.

 

I also recommend checking out oratory's Harman Curve Eq (assign induvidual bars to induvidual parametric eq's)

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets

[Ahoy Hoy]

17 hours ago, The Torrent said:

Download Equalizer APO

https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

(You can also use Peace or other stuff if you want but i persoanlly prefer APO)

 

And then just mess around with a graphic eq until it sounds gucci.

 

I also recommend checking out oratory's Harman Curve Eq (assign induvidual bars to induvidual parametric eq's)

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets

Christ almighty some of those EQs are terrible. Some have minor changes which is good as that's what you want. But theres some with over 10dB cuts and gains the phase problems that would cause is mad.

[The Torrent]

8 minutes ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Christ almighty some of those EQs are terrible. Some have minor changes which is good as that's what you want. But theres some with over 10dB cuts and gains the phase problems that would cause is mad.

Which eq's? Oratory's list? You should take that up with him yourself if you got a problem with them and tell him how to do them better.

 

(dw guys they ain't generally any phase problems with headphones i think this guy is unfamiliar with eqing headphones)

[Ahoy Hoy]

1 hour ago, The Torrent said:

Which eq's? Oratory's list? You should take that up with him yourself if you got a problem with them and tell him how to do them better.

 

(dw guys they ain't generally any phase problems with headphones i think this guy is unfamiliar with eqing headphones)

How does EQ not affect phase then?

[The Torrent]

7 minutes ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

How does EQ not affect phase then?

Headphones are generally minimum phase so any minimum phase EQ will alter the phase in a desirable way.

[Ahoy Hoy]

8 minutes ago, The Torrent said:

Headphones are generally minimum phase so any minimum phase EQ will alter the phase in a desirable way.

Minimum phase EQ still messes up the phase.

[The Torrent]

2 minutes ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Minimum phase EQ still messes up the phase.

Can you source?

[Holo]

On 12/7/2020 at 12:01 AM, The Torrent said:

Download Equalizer APO

https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

(You can also use Peace or other stuff if you want but i persoanlly prefer APO)

 

And then just mess around with a graphic eq until it sounds gucci.

 

I also recommend checking out oratory's Harman Curve Eq (assign induvidual bars to induvidual parametric eq's)

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets

Thank you, i downloaded APO and Peace, i still cant figure out how to set it exactly right, but some small changes made things at least less horrible

[Ahoy Hoy]

19 hours ago, The Torrent said:

Can you source?

Its kind of in the name minimum doesn't equal none. 

Five second google of "minimum phase eq still cause phase problems" finds this
https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/learn/should-you-be-using-linear-phase-eq/

Its a pain in the arse these days to find scientific studies into it on google and I dont both to do it any more on this forum as I did it once and got told I was wrong even though I linked like five scientific studies

[The Torrent]

On 12/8/2020 at 2:44 PM, Ahoy Hoy said:

Its kind of in the name minimum doesn't equal none. 

Five second google of "minimum phase eq still cause phase problems" finds this
https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/learn/should-you-be-using-linear-phase-eq/

Its a pain in the arse these days to find scientific studies into it on google and I dont both to do it any more on this forum as I did it once and got told I was wrong even though I linked like five scientific studies

Thats linear phase not minimum.

[Ahoy Hoy]

4 minutes ago, The Torrent said:

Thats linear phase not minimum.

Theres a paragraph half way down where he compares the two and discuses the pros and cons of both

[The Torrent]

13 minutes ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Theres a paragraph half way down where he compares the two and discuses the pros and cons of both

Well if your talking of minimum phase that only has a desirable impact to headphones.

[The Torrent]

20 hours ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Theres a paragraph half way down where he compares the two and discuses the pros and cons of both

do you understand or do you need me to elaborate? I dont want you spreading false things about eq. Yes you get phase issues in old style analogue minimum phase issues if u eq a LOT, but not anymore, your simply 'fixing' the phase in the same way your 'fixing' the frequency response.

[HenrySalayne]

@The Torrent @Ahoy Hoy
You are both spreading false information. Every filter has to change the phase to work. That's signal theory 101. And in this case, phase response doesn't matter.

 

@Holo

Diagnosing audio problems from afar isn't easy. I highly doubt your new headphones are solely responsible. I'm not playing Apex Legends, but you should try different settings. Sometimes there are "enhancements" for headphones and you should switch anything off. Some games even ask for your audio device (headphones, 2.0 system, 5.1 system or something similar) and will switch to different internal sound profiles. Just try everything the settings menu has to offer.

If the sound is alright but gun shots are just too loud, you don't need an EQ, you need something called a (signal) compressor. It decreases the dynamic range of a signal. Instead of impacting the sound like an EQ, it just automatically equalises the level. 

[The Torrent]

6 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

@The Torrent @Ahoy Hoy
You are both spreading false information. Every filter has to change the phase to work. That's signal theory 101. And in this case, phase response doesn't matter.

 

@Holo

Diagnosing audio problems from afar isn't easy. I highly doubt your new headphones are solely responsible. I'm not playing Apex Legends, but you should try different settings. Sometimes there are "enhancements" for headphones and you should switch anything off. Some games even ask for your audio device (headphones, 2.0 system, 5.1 system or something similar) and will switch to different internal sound profiles. Just try everything the settings menu has to offer.

If the sound is alright but gun shots are just too loud, you don't need an EQ, you need something called a (signal) compressor. It decreases the dynamic range of a signal. Instead of impacting the sound like an EQ, it just automatically equalises the level. 

Change yes, but in no way is it a negative effect.

[HenrySalayne]

11 minutes ago, The Torrent said:

Change yes, but in no way is it a negative effect.

It depends. But it certainly doesn't matter for playback through headphones. The entire discussion is pointless.

[The Torrent]

1 minute ago, HenrySalayne said:

It depends. But it certainly doesn't matter for playback through headphones. The entire discussion is pointless.

i dont think you understood the discussion.

Original point made by Ahoy was:

On 12/7/2020 at 4:46 PM, Ahoy Hoy said:

Christ almighty some of those EQs are terrible. Some have minor changes which is good as that's what you want. But theres some with over 10dB cuts and gains the phase problems that would cause is mad.

That Oratory's EQs are poor due to 10db cuts leading to phase problems which will have an extremely negative impact on sound.

 

I then continued to explain how that was wrong, and how headphones are minimum phase, hence minimum phase EQs do not have a negative impact on headphones.

 

Read the entire discussion before calling people wrong or the discussion pointless.

[HenrySalayne]

21 minutes ago, The Torrent said:

I then continued to explain how that was wrong, and how headphones are minimum phase, hence minimum phase EQs do not have a negative impact on headphones.

Which doesn't make any sense. Phase is simply irrelevant as long as no correlated signals are added to each other.

[The Torrent]

38 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Which doesn't make any sense. Phase is simply irrelevant as long as no correlated signals are added to each other.

Your not making sense.

 

If someone says 10db cuts are gonna lead to phase problems, should i just not reply and block them from my mind? I answerd a statement that was made.

 

Its irrelevant to the subject but relevant to the discussion.

[Ahoy Hoy]

On 12/10/2020 at 6:22 PM, The Torrent said:

Your not making sense.

 

If someone says 10db cuts are gonna lead to phase problems, should i just not reply and block them from my mind? I answerd a statement that was made.

 

Its irrelevant to the subject but relevant to the discussion.

Its in the bloody name how can you not get it. MINIMUM DOES NOT MEAN NONE! Minimum means a small/smallest amount. Lots of little things add up when you do a lot of cuts and boosts over lots of different frequencies that's a lot of littles adding up. So when I said some of those EQ settings area really good because they have small boost and cuts which do a lot to the frequncy response of the headphones while doing minor changes. Thats good as small amounts mean small unnoticeable phase changes while having a large benefit to sound. BUT some of the EQs had lots of cuts and boost all over the frequncy range. Which will add up to a noticeable change in phase.

This is the best part about phase problems is its hard to work out what's wrong. You start getting phase problems and you think hmm something doesnt sound right, I think its the low end. So you add more EQ. Still sounds wrong so you add more EQ to try and correct it. All the time you making the problem worse to the point that the best thing you can do is mute the EQ.

Let me give you some knowledge for free. Small boost and cuts over a wide frequncy affect phase less then large boosts and cuts over a small frequency range. 10dB of cut and boost is a lot anything over 3 to 5 dB is a lot. The only time its acceptable to do a sharp cut on a frequncy is when you got power problems and you got that 50/60Hz buzz and cutting it out is the only answer.

[The Torrent]

2 hours ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Its in the bloody name how can you not get it. MINIMUM DOES NOT MEAN NONE! Minimum means a small/smallest amount. Lots of little things add up when you do a lot of cuts and boosts over lots of different frequencies that's a lot of littles adding up. So when I said some of those EQ settings area really good because they have small boost and cuts which do a lot to the frequncy response of the headphones while doing minor changes. Thats good as small amounts mean small unnoticeable phase changes while having a large benefit to sound. BUT some of the EQs had lots of cuts and boost all over the frequncy range. Which will add up to a noticeable change in phase.

This is the best part about phase problems is its hard to work out what's wrong. You start getting phase problems and you think hmm something doesnt sound right, I think its the low end. So you add more EQ. Still sounds wrong so you add more EQ to try and correct it. All the time you making the problem worse to the point that the best thing you can do is mute the EQ.

Let me give you some knowledge for free. Small boost and cuts over a wide frequncy affect phase less then large boosts and cuts over a small frequency range. 10dB of cut and boost is a lot anything over 3 to 5 dB is a lot. The only time its acceptable to do a sharp cut on a frequncy is when you got power problems and you got that 50/60Hz buzz and cutting it out is the only answer.

Thats completely wrong.

 

If the tuning removes 20 degrees from the phase, equalizing it back to original tuning is gonna add another 20.

 

Fixing the phase fixes is like fixing the tuning. Thats not how it works at all.

 

You clearly dont know how phase works, and how each set of phase in minimum phase is linked to its respective frequency.

[Aneirin]

This is a complete shot in the dark, but at least in music, the shrill frequencies are usually in the 2-5 khz range. Most commonly 4k give or take 500hz. Though you are talking about gun shots I would wager the fundamental frequency significantly is lower, cutting this overtones might help. You might also try cutting the "boxy" range around 400hz-700hz range. Though I am unsure if this would help since explosive sounds cover quite a wide frequency range.

 

As suggested a compressor with really fast attack time and moderate release might also help to curb the amplitude spikes.

 

As to the phase issue ... well I personally don't see an issue as long as you are eq-ing a single source, you won't notice a difference in sound if phase is shifted on a single source. Though I would caution against deep cuts (over 10db, since it will probably make the sound shitty anyway). Phase issues really come into play if you have multiple sound sources with similar waveforms. All eqs change the phase response to a degree, unless it's a linear phase eq, which introduces a whole new problem, namely that you can't have linear phase eq without introducing delay. And I would find that way more distracting in an FPS than a slight phase shift. They can also introduce pre-ringing.