Is Dual rank guaranteed

[Emeth]

In the case of G.Skill, are their dual kits of 2x16, always guaranteed to be dual rank?

or is it just a guess? 

For example, is F4-3600C16D-32GTZRC guranteed to be dual rank? 

[SupaKomputa]

 

It should be in the stickers.

[Emeth]

8 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

 

It should be in the stickers.

Thank you, so there's no way to guarantee that if it says "F4-3600C16D-32GTZRC" it will be dual rank? I have to actually receive the kit and look at the sticker?

 

I think I'm confused when it comes to dual channel, dual rank and number of sticks.

If I understood correctly, dual rank means that there's ICs/chips on both side of the stick. 

Dual channel means you have 2 or more sticks, and the limiting factor is whatever the motherboard/cpu supports, so if it doesn't support quad channel, it will run at dual channel.

How come quad rank is even a thing if there are only 2 sides

[badreg]

3 minutes ago, Emeth said:

How come quad rank is even a thing if there are only 2 sides

Two rows on each side.

[Emeth]

2 minutes ago, badreg said:

Two rows on each side.

Ah that makes sense (I think)

From what I understood, better timings or tighter timing are more important for Ryzen than higher frequency

And going beyond C16 3600 has negligible performance, how does that translate into the ranks?

[SupaKomputa]

go to the website or google the sku.

dual rank can be on the same side too (stacked), it's rare though.

the problem with these heatsinked sticks is that you can't visually see the difference.

 

dual channel is the memory channeling for the system.

dual rank is how the memory chips are arranged in the sticks.

single rank sticks have more density on a single chip than the same capacity dual rank sticks.

yes there will be limitation in some cpu to support dual/single rank, but overall if you're just using 2 slots, you don't have to worry.

the penalty of using 4x2R usually the reducing or max supported speed, and it would still work, but slower.

no consumer motherboard support 4 channels, only server.

[Emeth]

5 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

go to the website or google the sku.

dual rank can be on the same side too (stacked), it's rare though.

the problem with these heatsinked sticks is that you can't visually see the difference.

 

dual channel is the memory channeling for the system.

dual rank is how the memory chips are arranged in the sticks.

single rank sticks have more density on a single chip than the same capacity dual rank sticks.

yes there will be limitation in some cpu to support dual/single rank, but overall if you're just using 2 slots, you don't have to worry.

the penalty of using 4x2R usually the reducing or max supported speed, and it would still work, but slower.

no consumer motherboard support 4 channels, only server.

I understand, but why would the manufacturer release different kinds of sticks with the same SKU?

If the SKU is the same regardless of the shielding, behind it, there should always be a dual rank chip if it's a 2x16 kit.

Like in the Case of F4-3600C16D-32GTZRC ?

[xg32]

7 minutes ago, Emeth said:

I understand, but why would the manufacturer release different kinds of sticks with the same SKU?

If the SKU is the same regardless of the shielding, behind it, there should always be a dual rank chip if it's a 2x16 kit.

Like in the Case of F4-3600C16D-32GTZRC ?

in the case of 2 sticks, you have to physically see the sticks to be sure, for both of my upcoming builds i'm going with 4x8 on both of them to just...not create more problems... (already bought them on sale since everything else is oos), 8gb sticks run tighter timings than 16gb sticks anyway if that's any help.

[Emeth]

17 minutes ago, xg32 said:

in the case of 2 sticks, you have to physically see the sticks to be sure, for both of my upcoming builds i'm going with 4x8 on both of them to just...not create more problems... (already bought them on sale since everything else is oos)

Thank you.

Is it possible that if I buy aa 4x8 kit, some of the the sticks will be dual rank?, I don't really understand why 4x8 is guaranteed to be single rank while 2x16 can be both?

Pretty sweet that you can get tighter timing on them, I don't understand where the notion that 2x16 sticks are better if they're dual channel came from.

If you get tighter timings with more sticks.

 

I ended up ordering F4-3600C16Q-32GTZNC, hopefully there's nothing wrong with it¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[badreg]

22 minutes ago, Emeth said:

I understand, but why would the manufacturer release different kinds of sticks with the same SKU?

 

Because module manufacturers do not manufacture the DRAM chips (which are supplied almost entirely by three companies). If, for example, there is a shortage of 8Gb chips, a module manufacturer might decide to go with a 16x4Gb configuration instead of a 8x8Gb configuration to produce a 8GB stick.

 

13 minutes ago, Emeth said:

Is it possible that if I buy aa 4x8 kit, some of the the sticks will be dual rank?, I don't really understand why 4x8 is guaranteed to be single rank while 2x16 can be both?

If you buy a single kit, they will all contain the same ICs, so all sticks will be single rank or dual rank. When you purchase identical kits separately, there is no guarantee that the ICs are the same.

 

4x8GB is not guaranteed to be single rank. I have some 8GB DDR4 sticks that are dual rank. It is just that 8Gb chips are the most common/economical at this time, so an 8GB stick is most likely going to be a 8x8Gb configuration while a 16GB stick is most likely going to be a 16x8Gb configuration.

[Emeth]

3 minutes ago, badreg said:

Because module manufacturers do not manufacturer the DRAM chips (which are supplied almost entirely by three companies). If, for example, there is a shortage of 8Gb chips, a module manufacturer might decide to go with a 16x4Gb configuration instead of a 8x2Gb configuration to produce a 8GB stick.

 

If you buy a single kit, they will all contain the same ICs, so all sticks will be single rank or dual rank. When you purchase identical kits separately, there is no guarantee that the ICs are the same.

 

4x8GB is not guaranteed to be single rank. I have some 8GB sticks that are dual rank. It is just that 8Gb chips are the most common/economical at this time, so an 8GB stick is most likely going to be a 8x8Gb configuration while a 16GB stick is most likely going to be a 16x8Gb configuration.

Thank you for the explanation, I think I just realized that this is way over my head and that it's too confusing for my tiny brain.

I think I'll just get the cheapest CL16 3600 kit that hopefully has a B-die and not worry too much 

I decided to get  F4-3600C16Q-32GTZNC

[SupaKomputa]

18 minutes ago, Emeth said:

I understand, but why would the manufacturer release different kinds of sticks with the same SKU?

If the SKU is the same regardless of the shielding, behind it, there should always be a dual rank chip if it's a 2x16 kit.

Like in the Case of F4-3600C16D-32GTZRC ?

Usually from the same SKU it would the same rank configurations. The chip itself can be from a different manufacturer.

Why this happened? Well this would be flexible for them to overcome chip shortages, they just source the chip from somewhere else.

13 minutes ago, Emeth said:

Is it possible that if I buy aa 4x8 kit, some of the the sticks will be dual rank?, I don't really understand why 4x8 is guaranteed to be single rank while 2x16 can be both?

usually no, usually it would be the same rank for the same SKU, but probably different chip that might pose some compatibility in high overclocking.

[Emeth]

1 minute ago, SupaKomputa said:

Usually from the same SKU it would the same rank configurations. The chip itself can be from a different manufacturer.

Why this happened? Well this would be flexible for them to overcome chip shortages, they just source the chip from somewhere else.

usually no, usually it would be the same rank for the same SKU, but probably different chip that might pose some compatibility in high overclocking.

When you say different die, do you mean B die vs an E die? or can B dies can be different as well?

[SupaKomputa]

Different chip manufacturer : Micron, Hynix, Samsung, Elpida, Kingston etc.

For those manufacturer, they have different "die", like B, E, cjr, afr etc.

Those die have different design and performance quality for overclocking.

 

Those die can be mix and matched in normal operations, nothing to worry about if you're running it at the same advertised speed.

[Emeth]

1 minute ago, SupaKomputa said:

Different chip manufacturer : Micron, Hynix, Samsung, Elpida, Kingston etc.

For those manufacturer, they have different "die", like B, E, cjr, afr etc.

Those die have different design and performance quality for overclocking.

 

Those die can be mix and matched in normal operations, nothing to worry about if you're running it at the same advertised speed.

I thought only Samsung made B dies, if other manufacturers made the chip, then it's not a B die anymore right? 

The reason I think B die is best is because it's better (allegedly) for tighter clocks which have a greater impact on gaming performance than mem freq.

[xg32]

13 minutes ago, Emeth said:

When you say different die, do you mean B die vs an E die? or can B dies can be different as well?

there are different bins of b-die, about 3-4 if i had to guess, the newest cl14 3600 kits clocked as high as cl16 4266, which is better than the cl16 3866 kit and the cl14 3200  (won't even go past 3300), i'm no expert i'm pretty sure the cl14 3600 kit can do something monstrous if i didn't suck.

 

The performance difference is minimal, certainly not worth the difference unless you were minmaxing. The kit that i recommend right now are 4 of these, start at cl16 3600 and see how much you can tighten them, voltages up to 1.5v below 60C are considered safe though u don't have to push them that far

 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232530?Description=cl14 3200&cm_re=cl14_3200-_-20-232-530-_-Product

 

As i said the ones i got 3 years ago didn't wanna go above cl14 3300 and therefore isn't the kit that i went with this time

 

E-die is generally for higher clocks and used with intel cpus.

[Emeth]

2 minutes ago, xg32 said:

there are different bins of b-die, about 3-4 if i had to guess, the newest cl14 3600 kits clocked as high as cl16 4266, which is better than the cl16 3866 kit and the cl14 3200  (won't even go past 3300)

 

The performance difference is minimal, certainly not worth the difference unless you were minmaxing. The kit that i recommend right now are 4 of these, start at cl16 3600 and see how much you can tighten them, voltages up to 1.5v below 60C are considered safe though u don't have to push them that far

 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232530?Description=cl14 3200&cm_re=cl14_3200-_-20-232-530-_-Product

 

As i said the ones i got 3 years ago didn't wanna go above cl14 3300 and therefore isn't the kit that i went with this time

 

E-die is generally for higher clocks and used with intel cpus.

I will take another 10 fps in raytraced 1440p dlss if I can, depends on what scale of minimal we're talking here.

I went with this kit https://www.newegg.com/global/il-en/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232863?Item=N82E16820232863 

I'm assuming it's okay.

[SupaKomputa]

3 minutes ago, Emeth said:

I thought only Samsung made B dies, if other manufacturers made the chip, then it's not a B die anymore right? 

Yes, samsung use B, E, M to code the die. B is favorable. It has high clock and thighter timings.

Hynix use CJR or AFR.

The problem is you won't know it until someone posted a report in reddit or online.

It should be the same on the same SKU made in the same batch.

That's why you buy memories from popular brand, with higher numbers of users, it should be easier to find the infos.

 

use Thaiphoon Burner to see which die you have.

[Emeth]

2 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

Yes, samsung use B, E, M to code the die. B is favorable. It has high clock and thighter timings.

Hynix use CJR or AFR.

The problem is you won't know it until someone posted a report in reddit or online.

It should be the same on the same SKU made in the same batch.

That's why you buy memories from popular brand, with higher numbers of users, it should be easier to find the infos.

 

use Thaiphoon Burner to see which die you have.

I'm assuming G.Skill is a popular brand? and if you order a kit of 2x16 from newegg, they have to be from the same batch and both of the sticks are supposed to be dual rank?

But apperantly 2x16 is bad because 4x8 gives you better timings?

[SupaKomputa]

Yeah, Gskill is pretty popular. Same kit should be the same batch, unless they are shuffling inventories. 

[xg32]

22 minutes ago, Emeth said:

I'm assuming G.Skill is a popular brand? and if you order a kit of 2x16 from newegg, they have to be from the same batch and both of the sticks are supposed to be dual rank?

But apperantly 2x16 is bad because 4x8 gives you better timings?

from my experience i've gskill long enough to have 2 sticks break on me (random bsods), the warranty was smooth no questions asked, first time they asked me to send both sticks back, 2nd time just the broken stick. Corsair and Gskill are the 2 biggest ram sellers on newegg, and corsair typically charge 20% more, never tried their warranty.

 

As for 8gb sticks vs 16 overclock, 2 years ago it was accepted that 8gb sticks are better for oc, but then recently i see stuff like this, i can only guess that 8gb sticks are not worse cause it wouldn't make sense, i won't know til i try to oc these but i'd assume 8gb sticks would clock higher but only on an oc

 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820374076?Description=2x16 cl14 3600&cm_re=2x16_cl14 3600-_-20-374-076-_-Product&quicklink=true