Confessed Cheater Sues Valve Over Being Banned

[LAwLz]

First of all. Cheating in Single Player is COMPLETELY different than cheating in Multiplayer. You cannot get banned for cheating in Single Player..... maybe.... but I have never gotten ban for cheating in singleplayer on steam games nor heard anyone else getting banned...

No it's not, and yes you can get banned in a game if you cheat while playing it in single player. Test Drive Unlimited 2 is one example of this.

 

 

Second, Value only went through people DNS cache to check if anyone has been cheating, nothing else... people just need to calm down about this...

It's still wrong though. First of all it's a very very bad way of checking if someone is cheating. Simply having visited a particular site once would trigger this calling you a cheater, even though you might never have installed or ran the cheat. Secondly it's just flat out wrong to do. You don't go through the web browsing history of people, no matter what your intentions are. Even having the power to look through your browsing history (not just your browser, but other programs like if you have used Origin, if you use Skype etc) is not OK. It's just not. I think it was very good that people got upset so Valve stopped doing this. We have to respond strongly to things like these otherwise it becomes a slippery slope, i.e they would introduce more and more privacy intrusive things over time.

 

 

 

Third, Ya you should look down at people who cheat online, like what, you gonna respect the cheater and say GOOD JOB and give him a cake, no way, I would look down and consider him less.... AND you cannot assume these people who look down on cheaters are value fanboys...

So you don't think he deserves a second chance, and that he is a lesser human being simply because he has cheated in a freaking game? So he does not deserve the same legal rights as everyone else just because he has cheated in a game?

You are clearly immature and do not understand the grander scale of things. This is not about "did he cheat and should he be punished", this is about "should you be allowed to retroactively punish someone if you change the law or ToS", and the answer to that should be a big fat no.

I am not sure if you missed my example earlier in the thread so I will quote it here again, and see what you think:

This discussions is not about cheating though, it's about retroactively punishing someone after having changed the punishment. That is simply not OK, no matter how you look at it. He had already received his punishment. Just imagine if the maximum jail time for let's say drunk driving was raised. Should everyone who has ever been in jail for drunk driving go back in jail, even though they might have been released several years ago? That's insane, right? That is basically what Valve is doing here, but instead of jail they are taking away games people have paid for.

If you think what Valve is doing is right, and you think sending people back to jail in my example would be wrong, then you are a hypocrite.

 

 

Forth, This is not an abuse of power, he did agree to the agreement. Its just value being a dick and enforcing it.

No, they are abusing their powers if they changed the ToS and then retroactively punish him for something he has already been punished for. It's the same as the government sending everyone that has been caught for drunk driving back to jail even though they have already been in jail for that crime before.

 

 

Fifth: Did you just make up the family banning thing? If not, please quote me part of the agreement about this.

Sure here you go, it's on the Steam Family Sharing site:

Will I be punished for any cheating or fraud conducted by other users while playing my games?

Your Family Library Sharing privileges may be revoked and your account may also be VAC banned if your library is used by others to conduct cheating or fraud. Additionally, VAC-banned games cannot be shared. We recommend you only authorize familiar computers you know to be secure. And as always, never give your password to anyone.

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

Can you stop assuming that everyone on value side is a Value fanboy? Like holy shit man, but like most of this post is random crap and excuses and more about how you hate value, not about the lawsuit.

Wait wait wait... You think I hate Valve? I love Valve, I really do. If you look through my old posts you will see me praising them for making AMD and Nvidia take GNU/Linux support seriously with their drivers, I have said it's one of the best services to combat piracy since it solves both pricing and distribution, etc.

Just because I like them does not mean I will take their side no matter what they do. It's because I like them that I react strongly to things like these. I don't want Valve to become a crappy company, which is why I am quick to tell them if they are doing something wrong. It's actually the people that just blindly trusts Valve no matter what they don't really like Valve, because they don't seem to care what would happen to the company.

Look at it this way. Imagine if your best friend was blind. If your blind friend though" hey, I am going to try to drive a car today", what would a real friend do? Would the real friend say "sure pal, I am going to sit in the passenger seat and tell you what a great job you are doing, no matter how badly you drive!" or would a real friend say "no that's an awful idea you are going to hurt yourself and other people". I am doing the latter thing here. The people that claim they like Valve and is saying "yeah kick the cheaters ass! Go Valve I love you" is in the former category.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:

But I can see where you are coming from, the reason I'm on Valve's side is because this guy clearly just found a way to make a cheap buck, and wants to exploit that. It seems like Valve made a dick move and he says "Two can play at that game".

Two wrongs does not make one right.

[McMitch]

Two wrongs does not make one right.

 

That is my point, he is a dick as well.

[matin94]

what a silly silly fucking sausage, seriously, stupid fucking cunt, "i cheat, i am a troll, why ban me!?"

a parrot could close this case down.

[mr moose]

what a silly silly fucking sausage, seriously, stupid fucking cunt, "i cheat, i am a troll, why ban me!?"

a parrot could close this case down.

 

It's not that simple, the issue is not whether he cheated or not but that a company should not be able to change the terms of a contract which results in a loss to the customer after the company has taken said customers money.

 

Yes the customer agreed that if he cheated he would be banned, however he did NOT agree to a permanent ban which results in him not being able to use a product he has paid for. Valve changed the rules after it accepted his money, if they wish to keep this new rule then they should refund his money other wise it could be legally deemed as financial gain by deception. 

[Neskia]

I can see where this guy is coming from, loosing an account worth that much is kinda scary and shocking

[Oradian]

I have mixed feelings about this. Value is being a dick because they are enforcing the rules in the agreement... which everyone reads of course..................................................... And I realized, everyone just needs to chill on lawsuits and sueing company.... *cough* Apple and Samsung *cough*. Value, I like you and all but do you really think people is going to read the 50000000000000000000000 page agreement? And whoever this person is.... you got some serious balls man, like more serious balls than I do. GOOD LUCK EVERYONE.

[matin94]

It's not that simple, the issue is not whether he cheated or not but that a company should not be able to change the terms of a contract which results in a loss to the customer after the company has taken said customers money.

 

Yes the customer agreed that if he cheated he would be banned, however he did NOT agree to a permanent ban which results in him not being able to use a product he has paid for. Valve changed the rules after it accepted his money, if they wish to keep this new rule then they should refund his money other wise it could be legally deemed as financial gain by deception. 

that all makes sense from the legal side of things, but if you owned a company, say like valve, and you had a game, say like CS, what would you do if someone is ruining the game for your other customers? valve could potentially loose customers, on their game and steam all together, to be honest, i leave any game completely if anyone cheats on it. i think they took the right actions, but not in the right steps

[mr moose]

that all makes sense from the legal side of things, but if you owned a company, say like valve, and you had a game, say like CS, what would you do if someone is ruining the game for your other customers? valve could potentially loose customers, on their game and steam all together, to be honest, i leave any game completely if anyone cheats on it. i think they took the right actions, but not in the right steps

that's fair enough.  I personally think if it was too much of an expense they should setup up smaller cheaper servers for the cheats and permanently ban them from the better quality servers that non cheaters can use.

[Imaginaerum]

No it's not, and yes you can get banned in a game if you cheat while playing it in single player. Test Drive Unlimited 2 is one example of this.

It is completely different. Cheating in a single player game directly affects one player, while cheating in a multiplayer game has the possibility of ruining the game for many players. I don't mean friendly group of Halo CE with Super Jump either.

 

Also are there any other games than TDU2 that you get banned for? All my raging racing fanboy friends won't even bother with that bad Xbox port, so I'm curious if that's all you have.

[SirPaul]

Valve will win.
however if he was accused of cheating and get tempban. you just really cannot give him permaban just becuase you change them.. Although i dont know hot it works.. I dont know if his temp ban was over, then he cheated again, or lets say he didnt cheat and suddenly gor banned again forever, thats wrong, but i really dont know consequences so i dont want to fantasize ..

 

However, I had hacker in my game, and instead of baning him, i send him a message so he reveals me where are tthe "backdoor" though which he has got in .

 

Sometimes guys like this are really usefull .

[LAwLz]

It is completely different. Cheating in a single player game directly affects one player, while cheating in a multiplayer game has the possibility of ruining the game for many players. I don't mean friendly group of Halo CE with Super Jump either.

 

Also are there any other games than TDU2 that you get banned for? All my raging racing fanboy friends won't even bother with that bad Xbox port, so I'm curious if that's all you have.

The only one I know of is Test Drive Unlimited (looked into cheating in that game and everyone said that you need to turn Steam off before cheating, otherwise you would get VAC banned, even in single player).

Not sure what you mean by "if that's all you have", it's just an example. I'm sure there are other games which can be played in single player, and are protected by VAC. Anyway the conversation isn't even about "is it bad to cheat", the conversation should be about "should you retroactively be able to punish someone for something they have already been punished for" which should be a big fat NO.

This is about so much more than just cheating or not.

[Eroda]

problem is overwatch is not based on actual finding of injected hacks, its based on people viewing your gameplay and then deciding if your guilty. i have no problem with overwatch bans turning into VAC bans when the evidence is found, but to change overatch bans to permanent based on someone watching gameplay i feel myself is wrong

[MegaDave91]

Yea, he was cheating. He got temp banned. TEMP banned. Just because a policy changed does not warrant a change in punishment, especially since he was given the ban before the new ToS.

Cheaters can stay banned for all I care. 

[Legion]

In a matter of fact I think that he will win the law suit, just because he was wrongfully banned the second time. There have been people suing McDonalds, because the coffee is too hot and won, so I don't see why this fella will lose, no chance of loosing in my opinion. Valve are fu**ed. 

 

Because companies have been editing terms of service to prevent these kind of court cases 

[tryphaa]

Cheaters can stay banned for all I care. 

That's your opinion. How would you feel if you won the lotto, then the rules of the ticket changed, and then you didn't get your money?

[MegaDave91]

That's your opinion. How would you feel if you won the lotto, then the rules of the ticket changed, and then you didn't get your money?

You never cheated to win the money if the first place.

[tryphaa]

You never cheated to win the money if the first place.

Ok then, you stole the ticket from the store and got caught. You could post your bail with the money you won, but then the rules of the ticket changed, and you couldnt get out. How would you feel then?

[MegaDave91]

Ok then, you stole the ticket from the store and got caught. You could post your bail with the money you won, but then the rules of the ticket changed, and you couldnt get out. How would you feel then?

I'd hate myself for stealing it in the first place. 

[tryphaa]

I'd hate myself for stealing it in the first place. 

Ok. Just think as if you were a person different from yourself, and then this happened. You cant even lie, you know you would be mad.

[Fred Castellum]

Lol he seems really pissed off... I'm sure he's gonna get smited by Valve in court just like how his account was. 

[MegaDave91]

Ok. Just think as if you were a person different from yourself, and then this happened. You cant even lie, you know you would be mad.

Like I said, cheaters can stay banned for all I care. They ruin the experience and there's nothing good about them. Respawn has already tracked cheaters in Titanfall. Now is that sad or what? Already cheaters in that game...I hope they're perma banned too.

[Yoinkerman]

Theres also a huge difference between permanently banning individual games on an account and banning an entire account full of games. Unless he's hacking the actual steam service, a ban should never escalate over the game that's being played, regardless of how often he was cheating or how many copies of the same game he buys.

[Blake]

Not sure about in the USA, But in Australia, TOS do not overrule Consumer Protection Laws.

 

While The cheater is a bit of a dick richard, technically he has the right to use the games as purchased without restriction.

[mr moose]

Not sure about in the USA, But in Australia, TOS do not overrule Consumer Protection Laws.

 

While The cheater is a bit of a dick richard, technically he has the right to use the games as purchased without restriction.

Spot on, and same goes with EULA.  there are strong consumer protection laws in Australia and a permanent ban after changing the TOS would be seen the same as breaching contract.  One of the many great (yet overlooked) things about being an Australian.