Phono in 2020

[8-Bit Ninja]

I've recently purchased a new Tv, and while I'm loving almost everything the lack of phono out on pretty much every modern tv is annoying. I have a older (But very high end) amp + speakers so cant justify upgrading for the sake of modern inputs, as such to get audio from my tv to my amp I've had to use a powered optical audio to phono adapter. This works, however due to the nature of optical audio I'm unable to control the volume of the Tv from the remote, meaning every time I want to change the volume (Which during a movie could be several times) I have to get up, walk over to my amp adjust the volume and then sit back down. 

 

Now onto my question, my tv also has HDMI (ARC). I don't really understand what this does but could this be used instead of optical audio with the added benefit of controlling audio levels from the remote? And if not is there another solution that would allow me to? 

 

Thank you very much 

[startrek03]

6 minutes ago, 8-Bit Ninja said:

Now onto my question, my tv also has HDMI (ARC). I don't really understand what this does but could this be used instead of optical audio with the added benefit of controlling audio levels from the remote?

I don't really know much about it, but I'd guess HDMI ARC only allows audio return, when the HDMI input is selected as the source in the TV.

 

8 minutes ago, 8-Bit Ninja said:

I've recently purchased a new Tv, and while I'm loving almost everything the lack of phono out on pretty much every modern tv is annoying

Gimme XLR on every device bigger than a phone please xD.

[Kilrah]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZJPTKH0/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_KuDlFbKQXGFBZ

 

EDIT: Freaking forum always changes amazon links to products into a useless search and it's a pain in the butt. Search for ARC to analog converter.

 

https://www.ebay.com/c/1273296703

 

You could probably also use an optical (toslink) to analog adapter since most TVs still have an optical output.

[startrek03]

21 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZJPTKH0/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_KuDlFbKQXGFBZ

 

EDIT: Freaking forum always changes amazon links to products into a useless search and it's a pain in the butt. Search for ARC to analog converter.

 

https://www.ebay.com/c/1273296703

I just saw your post and I immediately wanted to post your link here... duh.

[Donut417]

4 hours ago, 8-Bit Ninja said:

And if not is there another solution that would allow me to? 

The easiest option is a sound bar with a remote. I use RCA to connect my Logitech PC speakers to my TV. As the TV speakers kinda suck. But I had to buy 15ft of RCA cabling so that I could put the speakers with in reach while Im laying in bed, this way I could change the volume and use headphones when I dont want to disturb the folks. 

 

From the settings on my TV, it looks like if I switch it to any external audio source the TV remote looses the ability to change the volume. 

[Derkoli]

4 hours ago, startrek03 said:

Gimme XLR on every device bigger than a phone please xD.

Amen.

4 hours ago, 8-Bit Ninja said:

I've recently purchased a new Tv, and while I'm loving almost everything the lack of phono out on pretty much every modern tv is annoying. I have a older (But very high end) amp + speakers so cant justify upgrading for the sake of modern inputs, as such to get audio from my tv to my amp I've had to use a powered optical audio to phono adapter. This works, however due to the nature of optical audio I'm unable to control the volume of the Tv from the remote, meaning every time I want to change the volume (Which during a movie could be several times) I have to get up, walk over to my amp adjust the volume and then sit back down. 

 

Now onto my question, my tv also has HDMI (ARC). I don't really understand what this does but could this be used instead of optical audio with the added benefit of controlling audio levels from the remote? And if not is there another solution that would allow me to? 

 

Thank you very much 

It seems that providing RCA outputs takes up too much room to TV manufacturers, and including a 3.5mm is better than nothing. 3.5mm -> RCA cables aren't hugely expensive either.

 

HDMI ARC requires a DAC (obviously), if you just need stereo output, then they're pretty cheap.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tendak-Extractor-Converter-Soundbar-Amplifier/dp/B07CJ96MQV/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=HDMI+ARC+DAC&qid=1596852500&sr=8-4

 

HDMI ARC is just useful because of volume control with a singular remote among other features such as it being pretty standard across the AVR board. It also has plenty of bandwidth for surround setups.

[Kilrah]

5 hours ago, Derkoli said:

It seems that providing RCA outputs takes up too much room to TV manufacturers, and including a 3.5mm is better than nothing. 3.5mm -> RCA cables aren't hugely expensive either.

The point is that most TVs don't have a 3.5mm jack anymore either.

[HenrySalayne]

10 hours ago, 8-Bit Ninja said:

the lack of phono out on pretty much every modern tv is annoying

A phono output is something completely different. Your talking about a line output. 

Record players have phono outputs: it's for the unaltered signal from the pickup which needs to be amplified and equalised, either in dedicated phono preamp or in a receiver with an integrated one. 

[8-Bit Ninja]

7 hours ago, Derkoli said:

Amen.

It seems that providing RCA outputs takes up too much room to TV manufacturers, and including a 3.5mm is better than nothing. 3.5mm -> RCA cables aren't hugely expensive either.

 

HDMI ARC requires a DAC (obviously), if you just need stereo output, then they're pretty cheap.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tendak-Extractor-Converter-Soundbar-Amplifier/dp/B07CJ96MQV/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=HDMI+ARC+DAC&qid=1596852500&sr=8-4

 

HDMI ARC is just useful because of volume control with a singular remote among other features such as it being pretty standard across the AVR board. It also has plenty of bandwidth for surround setups.

My Tv doesn’t even have a 3.5mm headphone jacks, which seems ridiculous. I was playing with the HDMI ARC output last night and it seems I run into the same issue as optical (tv is unable to control the volume level). 
 

Given I’ve had the tv for 4 days I’m tempted to just exchange it for one that has a 3.5mm Jack. Unless most Tv’s are capable of controlling the volume level through ARC?

[8-Bit Ninja]

8 hours ago, Donut417 said:

The easiest option is a sound bar with a remote. I use RCA to connect my Logitech PC speakers to my TV. As the TV speakers kinda suck. But I had to buy 15ft of RCA cabling so that I could put the speakers with in reach while Im laying in bed, this way I could change the volume and use headphones when I dont want to disturb the folks. 

 

From the settings on my TV, it looks like if I switch it to any external audio source the TV remote looses the ability to change the volume. 

Sorry RCA is Phono, but my tv doesn’t even have RCA outputs which seems utterly stupid 

[8-Bit Ninja]

11 hours ago, Kilrah said:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZJPTKH0/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_KuDlFbKQXGFBZ

 

EDIT: Freaking forum always changes amazon links to products into a useless search and it's a pain in the butt. Search for ARC to analog converter.

 

https://www.ebay.com/c/1273296703

 

You could probably also use an optical (toslink) to analog adapter since most TVs still have an optical output.

An optical is what I’m currently using, however I lose the ability to control volume if I use optical. It also seems if I get the same type of adapter but using HDMI ARC I run into the same issue of being unable to control the volume level 

[Kilrah]

I would expect volume to work since the ARC connection allows passing commands such as volume adjustments unlike optical, but might need to find someone reviewing a similar setup to be sure.

[Donut417]

6 hours ago, 8-Bit Ninja said:

orry RCA is Phono, but my tv doesn’t even have RCA outputs which seems utterly stupid 

Thats because RCA is effectively dead. All the things you're going to connect to your TV is going thru HDMI. Which is why ARC exists. The only reason my TV has RCA is because its Pre LED backlight. 

[Derkoli]

12 hours ago, Kilrah said:

The point is that most TVs don't have a 3.5mm jack anymore either.

It is absurd. The TV has a DAC for it's onboard speakers, so why not feed that line out to a 3.5mm jack? Can't be massively expensive.

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, Derkoli said:

It is absurd. The TV has a DAC for it's onboard speakers, so why not feed that line out to a 3.5mm jack? Can't be massively expensive.

Because they expect you to use a sound bar or some kinda of home theater receiver, both of which have models with a remote to change the volume. As everyone knows the stock speakers are crap and will continue to be crap as long as they keep making TV's thinner and thinner. Also for all you know they provide a crappy DAC onboard because they dont expect people to use the on board speakers. 

[Retro_R]

Hey, i know this thread is old, but i'm running into the same thing. I just got a LG TV for rlly cheap bc it was 'open-box' but was basically brand new. Anyways, it doesn't have any 3.5mm out (which is weird like u cant just have that? whatever) it only has optical out, and a ARC hdmi connection. I tried a Optical to Analog converter w my old tv a couple months ago and i had the issue where i couldn't control the volume from the remote, or at all. I'm using Bose roommate 2s, and theres no volume control on the speakers them selves so it's always at a fixed volume., Even if there was, I would have to get up from my bed, down the stairs (i have a loft bed), get a ladder, or reach up and turn it down every single time i would want to change the volume, which is just impractical. Someone on another thread here i made suggested a HDMI ARC extractor, and i've been looking at different ones on amazon for a bit now. although if it's not able to control the volume through the remote, i dont even want to bother. I saw one listing that talked about being able to control the vol thru the remote. Although, hearing abt op having the issue of before, i just dont know what to do. Some one please help!

 

Also, the reason i dont just get new speakers is because i got these for free, so it doesnt make sense to spend $80+ on something which may sound worse than those just for it to work.

[Kilrah]

1 hour ago, Retro_R said:

I saw one listing that talked about being able to control the vol thru the remote. Although, hearing abt op having the issue of before, i just dont know what to do.

There are quite a few reviews saying it does work...

[Retro_R]

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

There are quite a few reviews saying it does work...

Haha oop! i just read em, and you're right I'll prob get this cheaper one (a used ver tho bc its a lot cheaper) tho and it seems the same. If it doesnt work ill just return it.

[H713]

On 8/7/2020 at 4:38 PM, startrek03 said:

Gimme XLR on every device bigger than a phone please xD.

The added cost to do this is huge though - XLR connectors are several dollars even in quantity, and they take up a massive amount of panel and PCB real estate. Since any XLR output / input should be a balanced input / output, you're adding some non-zero amount of cost and complexity to the IO circuits. Not ideal.

 

What I cannot figure out is why RCA has remained the standard for as long as it has. It's a miserable POS of a connector design. I suppose it's cheap, and that's probably why it's remained the defacto standard for unbalanced line-level signals for so long, but it is still a terrible connector design.

 

[8-Bit Ninja]

Wow i forgot about this thread 

 

@Retro_RWhat i ended up doing was buying an ARC extractor from amazon. It allowed me to use HDMI over ARC for audio from the TV, into the adapter which then let me split it out into phono. Its not perfect, there is a small amount of noise coming through the speakers but it does the job. I'm not sure if its your TV or just a dodgy adapter but i can control volume using the TV remote, if i remember correctly i did need to enable a setting in the TV though. 

[Retro_R]

On 4/16/2022 at 2:56 PM, 8-Bit Ninja said:

Wow i forgot about this thread 

 

@Retro_RWhat i ended up doing was buying an ARC extractor from amazon. It allowed me to use HDMI over ARC for audio from the TV, into the adapter which then let me split it out into phono. Its not perfect, there is a small amount of noise coming through the speakers but it does the job. I'm not sure if its your TV or just a dodgy adapter but i can control volume using the TV remote, if i remember correctly i did need to enable a setting in the TV though. 

Lmfao ye, sorry i just saw it while i was looking around for arc adapters n things, and i thought id reply to it and prob get more resonses than if i just made a whole new thread. But, i've just ordered a cheap HDMI ARC Adapter, and it comes in on sunday, so i'll wait till then. But from what i've seen its the only way to get from a digital signal to analog while still being able to control vol. Plus i dont need it to be perfect, i just need it to work. I've seen ppl talk abt those settings, i forgot which one it was exactly, but i'll figure it out when i get it ig.