Looking X570 motherboard with bifurcation (full ATX or larger)

[e22big]

Just like the title, I am looking for a full ATX X570 motherboard that support bifurcation, spesifically one that got at least 2 x16 PCIE that can support 8x8 or 8x4x4 configuration, and at least 2 M.4 PCIE gen 4 that don't share bandwith with any of the SATA port.

 

My main expectation is to mount two NVME SSD on the second graphic slot, that's why I am looking for one that can do bifurcation so that I can mount two extra SSD that run at full 4.0 mode. This has been a feature on Intel chipset for years now and it's one of the reason why I am still considered them for my next build. If any of AMD board can support that however, it would change the story. I know for a fact that X570 support bifurcation but after digging through a bunch of Asus datasheet, I don't see any of them that support this feature I have been looking for. In fact, most Asus board seem not to even support 8x8 GPU/SSD configuration on X570, they only got 8X4 available (on Prime and Crosshair board) 

 

Do you know any one else who offered this feature? Asus is my preferred mobo manufacturer but if someone else offered it I might consider switching. 

[Jurrunio]

I know Gigabyte X570 aorus Pro can, all I've done is to use PCPP to filter out boards that do not support SLI (since SLI needs bifurcation to work on AM4) and have fewer than 1 M.2 slot, then check each board on whether using both M.2 slots disable SATA ports.

1 hour ago, e22big said:

that's why I am looking for one that can do bifurcation so that I can mount two extra SSD that run at full 4.0 mode.

Having burification or not doesnt matter on Ryzen if you just want to run 2 SSDs at full speed (not that we can buy any PCIe 4 drives that top PCIe 4 x4 bandwidth anyway), Ryzen CPUs have 4 lanes directly to an M.2 slot (and I havent seen any board sold individually use these 4 lanes for anything but an M.2 slot) already. This means you can get another full speed PCIe 4 slot through the chipset.

 

Unless I'm misunderstand you and you actually want SSD and GPU to run all from CPU lanes, not chipset lanes. In that case the Gigabyte B550 Aorus Master is the only one I know that does this. It can do 8x GPU and 2 or 3 4x M.2 slot, or 16x GPU and 1 4x M.2.

[e22big]

17 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

I know Gigabyte X570 aorus Pro can, all I've done is to use PCPP to filter out boards that do not support SLI (since SLI needs bifurcation to work on AM4) and have fewer than 1 M.2 slot, then check each board on whether using both M.2 slots disable SATA ports.

Having burification or not doesnt matter on Ryzen if you just want to run 2 SSDs at full speed (not that we can buy any PCIe 4 drives that top PCIe 4 x4 bandwidth anyway), Ryzen CPUs have 4 lanes directly to an M.2 slot (and I havent seen any board sold individually use these 4 lanes for anything but an M.2 slot) already. This means you can get another full speed PCIe 4 slot through the chipset.

 

Unless I'm misunderstand you and you actually want SSD and GPU to run all from CPU lanes, not chipset lanes. In that case the Gigabyte B550 Aorus Master is the only one I know that does this. It can do 8x GPU and 2 or 3 4x M.2 slot, or 16x GPU and 1 4x M.2.

Yes, I am aware of that, however, I want a slot that can run 4 M.2 NVME not just 2. 2 from the board native M.2 slot and 2 in a bifurcation attached directly to second GPU slot. In most Ryzen board, the second GPU slot only run at 4.0 speed, this mean that I can either mount a single NVME at 4.0 or 2 at 2.0 which is something I want to avoid if possible. 

 

On Intel Z490 RoG Strix board, for example, I got 3 x16 buifurcation PCIE slot, and also one extra M.2 slot that run at 4.0 don't share bandwith with SATA, this mean I potentially have upto 5 NVME with one slot being used for discrete graphic. When looking for a board on the AMD side, I want to see something that offer this similar level SSD compatibility. 

 

I haven't check in this in detail yet but I understood that most X570 board, even the top tier one that offer 3 GPU slots also doesn't give you bifurcation which limit SSD mounting option by quite a lot.

[Jurrunio]

2 hours ago, e22big said:

, I want a slot that can run 4 M.2 NVME not just 2

That needs PCIe x16, no matter you go Ryzen or Intel you'll need the HEDT stuff, X299 TRX40 etc since there's not enough lanes left for the GPU.

 

2 hours ago, e22big said:

2 from the board native M.2 slot and 2 in a bifurcation attached directly to second GPU slot. In most Ryzen board, the second GPU slot only run at 4.0 speed, this mean that I can either mount a single NVME at 4.0 or 2 at 2.0 which is something I want to avoid if possible. 

That's why I told you to look for boards that support SLI. You need x8 slots to run SLI, meaning SLI qualified boards have bifurcation at least x8 per slot.

 

2 hours ago, e22big said:

On Intel Z490 RoG Strix board, for example, I got 3 x16 buifurcation PCIE slot, and also one extra M.2 slot that run at 4.0 don't share bandwith with SATA, this mean I potentially have upto 5 NVME with one slot being used for discrete graphic. When looking for a board on the AMD side, I want to see something that offer this similar level SSD compatibility. 

No you don't, Intel only offers 16 PCIe lanes from the CPU and 4 to the chipset on LGA1200 (and has been the case since Sandy Bridge, tho PCIe 2.0 at first). All M.2 slots on the board are connected to the chipset and Z490 only has PCIe 3.0 x4 worth of bandwidth, even with future 11th gen CPU that supports PCIe 4. In the case of the Z490-E (since it's the highest end Asus Z490 board still bearing the Strix name, assuming this is what you're referencing) the motherboard's user's manual clearly states that 2 PCIe x16 slots support PCIe bifurcation and the third x16 slot and the x1 slots are connected to the chipset.

 

2 hours ago, e22big said:

I haven't check in this in detail yet but I understood that most X570 board, even the top tier one that offer 3 GPU slots also doesn't give you bifurcation which limit SSD mounting option by quite a lot.

Asus X570 WS, has PLX chip to offer up to PCIe 4.0 x8 worth of bandwidth on each of the 3 x16 slots (but not together as they share x16 worth of bandwidth together). Intel platform may have W480 boards that can do the same, but this chipset does not support any kind of overclocking.

[e22big]

23 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

That needs PCIe x16, no matter you go Ryzen or Intel you'll need the HEDT stuff, X299 TRX40 etc since there's not enough lanes left for the GPU.

 

That's why I told you to look for boards that support SLI. You need x8 slots to run SLI, meaning SLI qualified boards have bifurcation at least x8 per slot.

 

No you don't, Intel only offers 16 PCIe lanes from the CPU and 4 to the chipset on LGA1200 (and has been the case since Sandy Bridge, tho PCIe 2.0 at first). All M.2 slots on the board are connected to the chipset and Z490 only has PCIe 3.0 x4 worth of bandwidth, even with future 11th gen CPU that supports PCIe 4. In the case of the Z490-E (since it's the highest end Asus Z490 board still bearing the Strix name, assuming this is what you're referencing) the motherboard's user's manual clearly states that 2 PCIe x16 slots support PCIe bifurcation and the third x16 slot and the x1 slots are connected to the chipset.

 

Asus X570 WS, has PLX chip to offer up to PCIe 4.0 x8 worth of bandwidth on each of the 3 x16 slots (but not together as they share x16 worth of bandwidth together). Intel platform may have W480 boards that can do the same, but this chipset does not support any kind of overclocking.

Hmn you're right, I check the datasheet again and it seem Z490 do only support 1 M.2 with both GPU slot and SATA fully populated (although this mean they have about the same PCIE lane available as X570 it seem)

 

X570 WS doesn't have bifurcation though, they gave you several x8 PCIE slot but none of them can do 4x4

[Jurrunio]

3 hours ago, e22big said:

X570 WS doesn't have bifurcation though, they gave you several x8 PCIE slot but none of them can do 4x4

Because it can do triple x8, why would you want x4 still? Do you not kmow what a PLX chip does?

[e22big]

3 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

Because it can do triple x8, why would you want x4 still? Do you not kmow what a PLX chip does?

Do you understand what 4x4 means? That's doesn't mean putting two NVME on two x4 slot. It means mouting two NVME on one adapter card, plug it on x8 NVME and still allow the computer to recognise them as two 4.0 mode SSD. SSD only max out at 4.0 mode, they don't perform any faster on 8.0 mode, that mean plugging an NVME on x8 PCIE is just a waste of PCIE lane, a bifurcation allows the x8 PCIE to to accept two SSD as two x4 card which double the amount and max out their speed. 

 

I already use PCIE to M.2 adapter that allows two SSD to be mounted at the same time, taking any board without bifurcation mean that I have to buy additional card to mount more SSD. Each of the PCIE lane will also have left over PCIE lane which I can't use for anything because they can't bifurcated and recognised my additional NVME that have been mount on this adapter if I want to.

[Jurrunio]

16 minutes ago, e22big said:

Do you understand what 4x4 means? That's doesn't mean putting two NVME on two x4 slot. It means mouting two NVME on one adapter card, plug it on x8 NVME and still allow the computer to recognise them as two 4.0 mode SSD. SSD only max out at 4.0 mode, they don't perform any faster on 8.0 mode, that mean plugging an NVME on x8 PCIE is just a waste of PCIE lane, a bifurcation allows the x8 PCIE to to accept two SSD as two x4 card which double the amount and max out their speed. 

https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1037507/

2 SSDs for each of PCIe x16_2 and _3, each of them x8 max bandwidth. Who's the one not understanding the other?

 

PCIe bifurcation on Intel boards let you run more SSDs sure, but not "max out their speed" as you've mentioned. Let alone PCie 4 which they dont have yet.

[e22big]

9 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1037507/

2 SSDs for each of PCIe x16_2 and _3, each of them x8 max bandwidth. Who's the one not understanding the other?

 

PCIe bifurcation on Intel boards let you run more SSDs sure, but not "max out their speed" as you've mentioned. Let alone PCie 4 which they dont have yet.

yeah? well this is what written on Samsung EVO website.

 

And if are you seriously claim that PCIE gen 4 speed worth the upgrade over ever PCIE gen 3? People every where don't even consider it worth spending money over gen 3, leave alone a real usuable lanes for extra SSD. 

 

Look, I am looking for X570 that can do this bifurcation ok? I know for a fact that X570 chipset can do bifurcation and they have PCI lanes left over in some board that allow me to do a bifurcation. If you don't know any just say it, I am not looking for an opinion whether that worth it or not.

 

 

[Jurrunio]

18 minutes ago, e22big said:

yeah? well this is what written on Samsung EVO website.

so? Samsung understands doesnt mean you do

 

19 minutes ago, e22big said:

And if are you seriously claim that PCIE gen 4 speed worth the upgrade over ever PCIE gen 3? People every where don't even consider it worth spending money over gen 3, leave alone a real usuable lanes for extra SSD. 

You're the one bringing up PCIe 4.0 right from the beginning

On 6/22/2020 at 11:01 PM, e22big said:

Just like the title, I am looking for a full ATX X570 motherboard that support bifurcation, spesifically one that got at least 2 x16 PCIE that can support 8x8 or 8x4x4 configuration, and at least 2 M.4 PCIE gen 4 that don't share bandwith with any of the SATA port.

 

19 minutes ago, e22big said:

Look, I am looking for X570 that can do this bifurcation ok? I know for a fact that X570 chipset can do bifurcation and they have PCI lanes left over in some board that allow me to do a bifurcation. If you don't know any just say it, I am not looking for an opinion whether that worth it or not.

I already named, the Asus X570 WS (and a few more) can do bifurcation but only the WS can hold 4 SSDs while still offering max of 4 PCIe lanes worth of bandwidth. Others are down to 3 which from how you described the Prime and Crosshair boards, is not enough.

 

You can also say you're not wanting what I'm telling you and be on your way, this is after all your problem not mine. I feel like I've wasted money on an HP EX920 over SATA SSDs.

[e22big]

6 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

so? Samsung understands doesnt mean you do

 

You're the one bringing up PCIe 4.0 right from the beginning

 

I already named, the Asus X570 WS (and a few more) can do bifurcation but only the WS can hold 4 SSDs while still offering max of 4 PCIe lanes worth of bandwidth. Others are down to 3 which from how you described the Prime and Crosshair boards, is not enough.

 

You can also say you're not wanting what I'm telling you and be on your way, this is after all your problem not mine. I feel like I've wasted money on an HP EX920 over SATA SSDs.

If X570 WS support bifurcation, they sure didn't mention it any where on their datasheet - and yes, I did read them which is why I mention that it doesn't seem to have bifurcation option right when you talk about it.

 

I try to be polite and keep this civil, but you've managed to wear out my patient, congratulation. You're rude, unhelpful and obnoxious, I have anything useful left to say, I am sure don't want to hear it anymore. 

 

GD

[libranskeptic]

On 6/25/2020 at 3:44 AM, Jurrunio said:

https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1037507/

2 SSDs for each of PCIe x16_2 and _3, each of them x8 max bandwidth. Who's the one not understanding the other?

 

PCIe bifurcation on Intel boards let you run more SSDs sure, but not "max out their speed" as you've mentioned. Let alone PCie 4 which they dont have yet.

The OP is right. You dont have the ability to read and comprehend the question, let alone be in a position to answer it, let alone tell him what he should seek if only he had your wisdom.

 

If you think the intel chipset is relevant, you should spare yourself further embarrassment.

[Mal_Content]

I'm a little late to the party, but I'm wondering e22big, did you find the AMD mobo you were looking for? I am in the same position now with my build. From the research I've done, it appears my only option at this time (other than a HEDT build) is to purchase an adapter card with an onboard bifurcation controller chip. Yes, they are more expensive, but they solve the problem of a mobo that doesn't support bifurcation. BuildOrBuy on YouTube has excellent vids on installing a dual or quad adapter and setting up the Bios correctly. He is also a great resource for HEDT configuration questions.

[e22big]

8 hours ago, Mal_Content said:

I'm a little late to the party, but I'm wondering e22big, did you find the AMD mobo you were looking for? I am in the same position now with my build. From the research I've done, it appears my only option at this time (other than a HEDT build) is to purchase an adapter card with an onboard bifurcation controller chip. Yes, they are more expensive, but they solve the problem of a mobo that doesn't support bifurcation. BuildOrBuy on YouTube has excellent vids on installing a dual or quad adapter and setting up the Bios correctly. He is also a great resource for HEDT configuration questions.

I have not, it seem there are only two routes, either go Threadripper or B550 series (which has bifurcation but also only have x4 PCIE secondary slot, which mean x2/x2, good enough for SATA though)

 

At this point I basically gave up

[libranskeptic]

On 6/23/2020 at 4:01 PM, e22big said:

Just like the title, I am looking for a full ATX X570 motherboard that support bifurcation, spesifically one that got at least 2 x16 PCIE that can support 8x8 or 8x4x4 configuration, and at least 2 M.4 PCIE gen 4 that don't share bandwith with any of the SATA port.

 

My main expectation is to mount two NVME SSD on the second graphic slot, that's why I am looking for one that can do bifurcation so that I can mount two extra SSD that run at full 4.0 mode. This has been a feature on Intel chipset for years now and it's one of the reason why I am still considered them for my next build. If any of AMD board can support that however, it would change the story. I know for a fact that X570 support bifurcation but after digging through a bunch of Asus datasheet, I don't see any of them that support this feature I have been looking for. In fact, most Asus board seem not to even support 8x8 GPU/SSD configuration on X570, they only got 8X4 available (on Prime and Crosshair board) 

 

Do you know any one else who offered this feature? Asus is my preferred mobo manufacturer but if someone else offered it I might consider switching. 

this list :

https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1037507/

shows about 10 such x570 mobos - those listing 2 nvme on pciex 16_2 in the first column

[CryingWimp]

Most quality boards with 2 pcie slots will do 8x8x. That has been normal for a long while. Doesn't listing 8x8x mean it has to have bifurcation?

 

1 M.2 will be direct to the cpu, 1 will be through the chipset. The other 2 will be on the 2nd 8x slot.

 

As for affecting sata ports, that entirely depends on the board. I'm not sure about the 6 sata port boards, but I know for sure every 8 port board will sacrifice another feature to use all 8 - generally x4 pcie lanes or the chipset m.2

[CryingWimp]

If you truly need 4 M.2s at 4.0 speed, 8 sata devices etc, you my friend need a workstation platform.

[e22big]

18 hours ago, CryingWimp said:

Most quality boards with 2 pcie slots will do 8x8x. That has been normal for a long while. Doesn't listing 8x8x mean it has to have bifurcation?

 

1 M.2 will be direct to the cpu, 1 will be through the chipset. The other 2 will be on the 2nd 8x slot.

 

As for affecting sata ports, that entirely depends on the board. I'm not sure about the 6 sata port boards, but I know for sure every 8 port board will sacrifice another feature to use all 8 - generally x4 pcie lanes or the chipset m.2

it will list as "8x8x or 8x4x4" if has bifurcation, after a bit of searching I already found some AMD board that has it but priced way too much for such a simple feature

[Offline Melodies]

On 7/6/2021 at 3:55 AM, e22big said:

it will list as "8x8x or 8x4x4" if has bifurcation, after a bit of searching I already found some AMD board that has it but priced way too much for such a simple feature

Sorry to hear you having such a hard go at it. It can be quite difficult to find this info. So for the Asus x570 work station board, you put the pcie slot into raid mode. Both 1 and 2 can do it. Then you can pop your card in. Now, if you are looking for something reasonably priced, check out the Aorus X570 Elite Wifi rev 1.x It has one PCIe 16, one PCIe x4 (x16 physical), and one PCIe x1. The PCIe x16 can be bifurcated to 4x4x4x4 so you can install an expansion card in there and put your graphics card in the 2nd x4 slot. That's the config I currently run and I"ve tested my 1080ti frame rates and I think I lose a frame or two but that's it. Also, you don't lose any sata ports, So you can have your two onboard m.2s, your 4 m.2s in your expansion card, and 6 sata drives. It might as well be a little workstation board. You can pick these boards up off ebay for 120 or so. Sometimes even cheaper if you are a good deal hunter. But even at 120 it's a great board. Even at full price it's a great board. I love it. Just start with your m.2s before you add the sata in. You will also have to enable raid on the aorus. At least that's what worked with my Asus hyper v2. And according to Asus, my board isn't supported. Well, ha on you Mr. Asus tech support. I got it working just fine. Anyway, hope that helps! :)

[Offline Melodies]

5 minutes ago, Offline Melodies said:

Sorry to hear you having such a hard go at it. It can be quite difficult to find this info. So for the Asus x570 work station board, you put the pcie slot into raid mode. Both 1 and 2 can do it. Then you can pop your card in. Now, if you are looking for something reasonably priced, check out the Aorus X570 Elite Wifi rev 1.x It has one PCIe 16, one PCIe x4 (x16 physical), and one PCIe x1. The PCIe x16 can be bifurcated to 4x4x4x4 so you can install an expansion card in there and put your graphics card in the 2nd x4 slot. That's the config I currently run and I"ve tested my 1080ti frame rates and I think I lose a frame or two but that's it. Also, you don't lose any sata ports, So you can have your two onboard m.2s, your 4 m.2s in your expansion card, and 6 sata drives. It might as well be a little workstation board. You can pick these boards up off ebay for 120 or so. Sometimes even cheaper if you are a good deal hunter. But even at 120 it's a great board. Even at full price it's a great board. I love it. Just start with your m.2s before you add the sata in. You will also have to enable raid on the aorus. At least that's what worked with my Asus hyper v2. And according to Asus, my board isn't supported. Well, ha on you Mr. Asus tech support. I got it working just fine. Anyway, hope that helps!

One more little thing that might help if you want to go Asus. This is the guide to the Asus m.2 expansion card. In it, they list out all there boards that support bifurcation that works with the card and how the PCIe ports work.

 

https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1037507/

 

[WhatDoIknow]

On 6/25/2020 at 12:55 PM, e22big said:

If X570 WS support bifurcation, they sure didn't mention it any where on their datasheet - and yes, I did read them which is why I mention that it doesn't seem to have bifurcation option right when you talk about it.

 

I try to be polite and keep this civil, but you've managed to wear out my patient, congratulation. You're rude, unhelpful and obnoxious, I have anything useful left to say, I am sure don't want to hear it anymore. 

 

GD

Very late, but I found this thread because I purchased the ASUS WS x570. It seems the online material is outdated. The Board supports bifurcation of all 3 x16 lanes for NVMe drives. So this could be 

 

CPU:x16(or 4*x4) + Chipset x8(or x4+x4)

CPU:x8(or x4+x4) + x8(or x4+x4) + Chipset x8(or x4+x4)

 

The bios explicitly calls out the Hyper card being compatible with any of the x16 slots, in what every configuration makes senes.