Su knows when this will ever appear anywhere else - Radeon Pro 5600M now available for Macbooks

[Zodiark1593]

On 6/15/2020 at 11:59 AM, Orangeator said:

Fair, but from my perspective, a pc hardware enthusiast, I see it as putting a V8 engine inside a coupe, then limiting each gears max RPM to 2,000. Rather than just putting a 4 banger in the coupe and letting it run at spec. I see it as wasting the potential of what would be other wise powerful hardware. Taking a 2080 TI then intentionally running at 600mhz hurts me inside, knowing that all that has to be done to make it run much closer to its potential is proper cooling.

Generally speaking, running a larger chip at reduced clocks is more efficient than driving a smaller chip at higher higher clocks to reach the same performance. The heightened voltages required for the clock speeds contributes an exponential increase in power consumption, vs something closer to a linear increase with a larger GPU. 

[leadeater]

On 6/18/2020 at 5:46 AM, DrMacintosh said:

Sure, you can do that. But then you hit power limitations since no battery in existence can power an RTX 2080. The end result is the GPUs have to downclock so much that the MacBook Pros end up being significantly faster when actually being used as a laptop. 
 

https://www.techspot.com/article/1571-gaming-laptop-battery-performance/

Well that is what annoys me about the thin and light craze, because that results in smaller batteries and the Ah of a battery has far more impact than people think. However there are also regulatory issues to contend with as you can't just put a massive battery in a laptop and try and take it on a plane, actually illegal so that sucks.

 

But anyway that issue aside larger Ah batteries could support more powerful GPUs and higher power consumption just the same as in power tools. Go look at reviews of impact drills and impact drivers using ~1-2 Ah 18V batteries then the same tools using 4-5 Ah 18V batteries, the difference it's absolutely massive, I cannot stress the sheer difference and importance just from the battery Ah change.

 

This applies just the same to laptops too, you put a really large battery in a laptop of a acceptable but larger size, like you know laptop form factor size that people were happy with before and actually liked, and you will be able to have an RTX 2070 on battery using 50W-70W. Sure it won't last very long but the battery has the capability to supply the required output current without huge voltage drop which is why it's not possible on batteries used in laptops today.

 

It's not that you can't do it on battery power or at the battery voltages used you just can't do it with the batteries currently put in to laptops. The other solution is to use higher voltage batteries and have more power regulation so the current draw is lower therefore voltage drop is lower but that would cost more and be more complex, also won't work with the thin and light craze. Both methods would work in the older thicker MacBook Pro chassis design.

 

However the ultimate flip side is laptops aren't supposed to be used as shuttle runs between power points but it would also be nice to be able to actually use the hardware put in them on battery too as there may be times, outside of gaming, where that could actually be useful.

 

None of this will change though due to that whole air travel issue, unless we can make batteries safer nothing will change. So yea, we need to move away from chemically and mechanically unstable battery technology that all it wants to do is critically react by way of heat i.e. fire. Rigid/metal containment isn't a good option either, not unless you are willing to walk around carrying a grenade without a safety pin.

[mr moose]

27 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well that is what annoys me about the thin and light craze, because that results in smaller batteries and the Ah of a battery has far more impactful than people think. However there are also regulatory issues to contend with as you can't just put a massive battery in a laptop and try and take it on a plane, actually illegal so that sucks.

 

But anyway that issue aside larger Ah batteries could support more powerful GPUs and higher power consumption just the same as in power tools. Go look at reviews of impact drills and impact drivers using ~1-2 Ah 18V batteries then the same tools using 4-5 Ah 18V batteries, the difference it's absolutely massive, I cannot stress the sheer difference and importance just from the battery Ah change.

 

 

 

What a lot of people fail to understand about batteries is that the Ah rating is not an amp limit.  some batteries (most depending the controller) can sustain much higher current delivery for the full work time of the battery. Meaning a 10Ah battery at 5V can deliver 50watts for 1 hour or it might deliver 200Watts for 15 minutes.  If people don't believe this they should take a look at these:

https://www.minithunder.net/top-8-mini-jump-starters-2018/

 

 

 

[leadeater]

51 minutes ago, mr moose said:

What a lot of people fail to understand about batteries is that the Ah rating is not an amp limit

Well they are literally two different units of measurement, basically force vs force over time (work done).

 

The design of the battery and the cell type has a big difference but not everything fits in the same size or battery packaging form factor/type.

 

NCR18650B 3,200mAh Energy Cell

 

UR18650RX 1950mAh Power Cell

 

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/discharge_characteristics_li

 

Both are Lithium Ion battery cells using the same materials, these aren't different Lithium Ion types, and of the same weight (ish, very close). As you can see there is quite a big difference and fits well for different purposes. Energy Cells are used in laptop batteries and USB power packs etc, things that have lower current draw and also preference longer run times but that is only possible at low current draw. Power Cells on the other hand are much better suited to high current draw applications like power tools where it is important to maintain the power (Watts) output for as long as possible.

 

Weirdly as far as I know the safety regulations around batteries on planes is the Ah rating so if you put Power Cells in laptops to support high power GPUs you could put in physically larger and heavier batteries at the same Ah rating as Energy Cell types.