i74710hq overclocked to 3.7ghz? (3.5ghz max)

[HummusCake]

Since its a hq cpu you can't overclock, but doing a stress test i realised its reaching 3.68ghz max but im not sure how, could it be that i got an alienware graphics amplifier? Please let me know, thx

[Enzo1001]

turbo boost

[HummusCake]

Just now, Enzo1001 said:

turbo boost

The turbo boost max is 3.5ghz..

 

[svmlegacy]

1 minute ago, Enzo1001 said:

turbo boost

Max turbo on this chip is 3.5 GHz. Base of 2.5 GHz.

 

@linusfanboi_skrub1 Can you provide screenshots of this behaviour?

[Jurrunio]

What software did you use to read that?

[HummusCake]

2 minutes ago, svmlegacy said:

Max turbo on this chip is 3.5 GHz. Base of 2.5 GHz.

 

@linusfanboi_skrub1 Can you provide screenshots of this behaviour?

Yeah here

[HummusCake]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

What software did you use to read that?

I use XTU and task manager, showing same results

[Jurrunio]

3 minutes ago, linusfanboi_skrub1 said:

I use XTU and task manager, showing same results

try CPU-Z or HWinfo in sensor mode

[svmlegacy]

1 minute ago, linusfanboi_skrub1 said:

Yeah here

Fire up HWiNFO and check BCLK and multiplier results. This is somewhat strange to me. It is possible for a BCLK bump to get it near there, and I wouldn't put it past alienware to do that. The telltale would be a 105 MHz BCLK.

[HummusCake]

4 minutes ago, svmlegacy said:

Fire up HWiNFO and check BCLK and multiplier results. This is somewhat strange to me. It is possible for a BCLK bump to get it near there, and I wouldn't put it past alienware to do that. The telltale would be a 105 MHz BCLK.

Alright i'll check it

[HummusCake]

5 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

try CPU-Z or HWinfo in sensor mode

checking now

[HummusCake]

8 minutes ago, svmlegacy said:

Fire up HWiNFO and check BCLK and multiplier results. This is somewhat strange to me. It is possible for a BCLK bump to get it near there, and I wouldn't put it past alienware to do that. The telltale would be a 105 MHz BCLK.

 

[Jurrunio]

Interesting, I know this is possible but I didnt know Alienware would do it from the factory

[svmlegacy]

16 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Interesting, I know this is possible but I didnt know Alienware would do it from the factory

Excellent thread pull. @linusfanboi_skrub1 Based on this information, it appears your system has at least +200 MHz applied as an OC to the CPU (And may have room for +200 more for single core turbo).  It's unknown to me if this is a default operation by Alienware, or may have been enabled somehow in BIOS or in OS software.

[HummusCake]

20 minutes ago, svmlegacy said:

Excellent thread pull. @linusfanboi_skrub1 Based on this information, it appears your system has at least +200 MHz applied as an OC to the CPU (And may have room for +200 more for single core turbo).  It's unknown to me if this is a default operation by Alienware, or may have been enabled somehow in BIOS or in OS software.

It seems to be a thing with the alienware graphics amplifier, in bios it mentions cpu overclock

[unclewebb]

Some 4th Gen mobile CPUs support limited overclocking. The 4700MQ allows +2 bins (200 MHz).

 

 

4710HQ is probably the same. XTU or ThrottleStop can access this feature as long as the OEM did not lock it in the BIOS.

[D2ultima]

On 6/15/2020 at 6:40 PM, unclewebb said:

Some 4th Gen mobile CPUs support limited overclocking. The 4700MQ allows +2 bins (200 MHz).

 

 

4710HQ is probably the same. XTU or ThrottleStop can access this feature as long as the OEM did not lock it in the BIOS.

Building off of what Unclewebb said, the 4710HQ is a +100MHz across the board over the 4700MQ, and can attain a maximum of 3.5GHz all-core turbo and 3.7GHz single core turbo. For Haswell, 47xx can do +200MHz
48xx can do +400MHz
49xx can do +600MHz
49xxMX are completely unlocked.

 

I do not know if you will have enough power you can apply to the HQ chips, though, as all 4xxxHQ chips are hard-limited at a PL1 of 45W (without using some form of powercut anyway) and cannot likely sustain higher clockspeeds under heavier loads.

[HummusCake]

6 hours ago, D2ultima said:

Building off of what Unclewebb said, the 4710HQ is a +100MHz across the board over the 4700MQ, and can attain a maximum of 3.5GHz all-core turbo and 3.7GHz single core turbo. For Haswell, 47xx can do +200MHz
48xx can do +400MHz
49xx can do +600MHz
49xxMX are completely unlocked.

 

I do not know if you will have enough power you can apply to the HQ chips, though, as all 4xxxHQ chips are hard-limited at a PL1 of 45W (without using some form of powercut anyway) and cannot likely sustain higher clockspeeds under heavier loads.

I upgraded to a 240w charger from 180w so i should definetly have enough power for the cpu, Does increasing power limit make the cpu perform better in any way?

[unclewebb]

5 hours ago, linusfanboi_skrub1 said:

Does increasing power limit make the cpu perform better in any way?

The 4710HQ has a TDP rating of 47W. When running these CPUs long term, they are designed so they do not exceed 47W. The CPU will automatically slow down (throttle) so it does not exceed 47W. If you can find a way to increase this turbo power limit then yes, when significantly loaded, a higher power limit can allow these CPUs to run faster without any power limit throttling.

 

The turbo power limits have nothing to do with the power rating of your power adapter. In this situation, the turbo power limit is used to control how much power your CPU can consume. Intel recommends that the long term turbo power limit (PL1) be set equal to the TDP and the short term power limit (PL2) should be set 20% to 25% higher than the TDP.

 

Here are a few examples of how this works. Using the ThrottleStop TS Bench test to provide some load, initially the CPU is allowed to run beyond the 47W limit.

 

https://i.imgur.com/hN13tNr.png

 

No throttling. The CPU is running at its maximum rated multiplier of 34.00.

 

As the benchmark continues and the turbo time limit runs out, then the CPU switches from the PL2 power limit to the 47W PL1 power limit. Here you can see that the CPU has lost approximately 220 MHz. Power consumption will hold steady at 47W indefinitely as long as the CPU does not overheat.

 

https://i.imgur.com/0juQBZv.png

 

On newer CPUs, it is easy to adjust the turbo power limits. The majority of the older 4th Gen mobile series had power limits that were firmly locked down. One trick that @D2ultima mentioned is the ThrottleStop PowerCut feature. Many of the 4th Gen Haswell CPUs have a bug that was never fixed. By locking the VCCIN voltage to a fixed value, this tricks the CPU so the power consumption data that is generated inside the CPU no longer works properly. All monitoring software will report a very low power consumption number even when the CPU is fully loaded. The CPU itself will think that power consumption is very low so it will not trigger any power limit throttling. Over 90% of the way through the exact same benchmark as before and the CPU multiplier is still solidly at 34.00.

 

https://i.imgur.com/IOto2VB.png

 

Fully loaded and the CPU thinks it is only consuming 3.5W. No reason to throttle anymore except when the core temperature reaches the thermal throttling temperature. Thermal throttling will continue to work just fine when using PowerCut.

[HummusCake]

6 hours ago, unclewebb said:

The 4710HQ has a TDP rating of 47W. When running these CPUs long term, they are designed so they do not exceed 47W. The CPU will automatically slow down (throttle) so it does not exceed 47W. If you can find a way to increase this turbo power limit then yes, when significantly loaded, a higher power limit can allow these CPUs to run faster without any power limit throttling.

 

The turbo power limits have nothing to do with the power rating of your power adapter. In this situation, the turbo power limit is used to control how much power your CPU can consume. Intel recommends that the long term turbo power limit (PL1) be set equal to the TDP and the short term power limit (PL2) should be set 20% to 25% higher than the TDP.

 

Here are a few examples of how this works. Using the ThrottleStop TS Bench test to provide some load, initially the CPU is allowed to run beyond the 47W limit.

 

https://i.imgur.com/hN13tNr.png

 

No throttling. The CPU is running at its maximum rated multiplier of 34.00.

 

As the benchmark continues and the turbo time limit runs out, then the CPU switches from the PL2 power limit to the 47W PL1 power limit. Here you can see that the CPU has lost approximately 220 MHz. Power consumption will hold steady at 47W indefinitely as long as the CPU does not overheat.

 

https://i.imgur.com/0juQBZv.png

 

On newer CPUs, it is easy to adjust the turbo power limits. The majority of the older 4th Gen mobile series had power limits that were firmly locked down. One trick that @D2ultima mentioned is the ThrottleStop PowerCut feature. Many of the 4th Gen Haswell CPUs have a bug that was never fixed. By locking the VCCIN voltage to a fixed value, this tricks the CPU so the power consumption data that is generated inside the CPU no longer works properly. All monitoring software will report a very low power consumption number even when the CPU is fully loaded. The CPU itself will think that power consumption is very low so it will not trigger any power limit throttling. Over 90% of the way through the exact same benchmark as before and the CPU multiplier is still solidly at 34.00.

 

https://i.imgur.com/IOto2VB.png

 

Fully loaded and the CPU thinks it is only consuming 3.5W. No reason to throttle anymore except when the core temperature reaches the thermal throttling temperature. Thermal throttling will continue to work just fine when using PowerCut.

thanks for all the info, but im not that smart about how all this works. How do i stop power limit throttling/thermal throttling, In XTU i can increase turbo power max which is 72w so would going slightly higher in the 20-25% range be good?

[unclewebb]

A turbo power limit setting of 72W might be good enough as is. That is 25W more than the default 47W turbo power limit that your 4710HQ is set to. Try running the XTU benchmark and keep an eye on your CPU speed and power consumption. Watch XTU for any power limit throttling. This will light up in yellow if you are being limited and your CPU speed will decrease.

 

The problem I had with XTU is that the adjustable turbo power limit setting does not work. The BIOS in my computer locks the turbo power limit register so the adjuster provided in XTU is fake. It does not accomplish anything. I can set XTU sky high and my 4700MQ will still be limited to the exact same 47W. Do some XTU testing. Hopefully you do not have this same problem.

 

The only way to stop thermal throttling, if you have that problem, is to try and improve CPU cooling. Some people like to pull their laptops apart and replace the thermal paste. Even something simple like blowing out the dust can significantly help cooling. XTU will show you your CPU temperatures and it will show if you have a thermal throttling problem.

[D2ultima]

On 6/17/2020 at 7:35 PM, linusfanboi_skrub1 said:

I upgraded to a 240w charger from 180w so i should definetly have enough power for the cpu, Does increasing power limit make the cpu perform better in any way?

That's your available system power, so yes you have enough power to "feed the computer". Increasing power limit would let the CPU pull its max speed at any given time, once it isn't overheating.

13 hours ago, linusfanboi_skrub1 said:

thanks for all the info, but im not that smart about how all this works.

It's really simple, PL1 and PL2 are "Power Limit 1 and 2". PL1 is the indefinite power draw limit, and PL2 is the "burst performance" power draw limit. The highest PL2 can sustain itself is 2.5 minutes without any BIOS trickery, where the CPU can draw as much power as it allows (by default 57W for Haswell HQ chips).

 

It works as sort of a way to give you a short bit of time extra power, and in theory, is useful for CPU power draw spikes. For example let's say running a game at 120fps took an average of 70% of your CPU load and drew 40W. If you suddenly had say... a large spike of CPU-draw-heavy things on-screen, perhaps loading assets in for a lot of items or more of the map, or maybe a lot of models appeared on screen at once (perhaps during an in-game cutscene), and your CPU load went to 90% and for a few seconds it needed 50W. PL2 would let you have up to 57W for those... I don't know... 30 seconds or so? Instead of downclocking your CPU due to power limit.

 

On the other hand, if playing the game maxes out your CPU constantly and demands a consistent power draw of 55W on average, PL2 would be useless because after a minute or two, you'd be locked to 47W PL1 and your CPU would enter a state of permanent throttle until load relaxes for a certain period of time and PL2 is allowed to become active again.

 

13 hours ago, linusfanboi_skrub1 said:

How do i stop power limit throttling? In XTU i can increase turbo power max which is 72w so would going slightly higher in the 20-25% range be good?

ALL intel 4xxxHQ CPUs are EC-limited to 47W power draw for PL1. It is impossible to change it without modifing the EC, which is not possible on alienwares with 4xxxHQ and later CPUs, due to Secure Flash on the BIOS and EC meaning you need Alienware's Digital Signature or the system will reject the flash or brick itself as a response. The only way to improve power limits for PL1 on an intel 4xxxHQ CPU is to use Throttlestop's "Power Cut" feature, which as @unclewebb described above, tricks the CPU (and the EC) into thinking it's only drawing 3.5W regardless of the power you shove through it. Due to this, it is not possible to set a power limit for the CPU, you either allow it to take as much as it needs or you deal with the 47W power limit.

 

13 hours ago, linusfanboi_skrub1 said:

How do i stop thermal throttling?

You can:
- undervolt the CPU (reduces power required and thus heat produced for the same performance). Without a power limit, this is a temperature drop across the board.

- repaste the laptop, preferably with Liquid Metal thermal paste if you have a copper heatsink contact, for better dispelling of heat

- prop the laptop up, most efficiently done by folding 3 or 4 blocks of toilet paper into small squares and putting one folded stack under each of the laptop's feet. Also suggested have been bottlecaps, but I prefer the cheapness/ease of access of toilet paper and how well it tends to grip surfaces.
- increase fan speed to maximum during high stress loads (not sure how you'd do that one)

[HummusCake]

16 hours ago, unclewebb said:

A turbo power limit setting of 72W might be good enough as is. That is 25W more than the default 47W turbo power limit that your 4710HQ is set to. Try running the XTU benchmark and keep an eye on your CPU speed and power consumption. Watch XTU for any power limit throttling. This will light up in yellow if you are being limited and your CPU speed will decrease.

 

The problem I had with XTU is that the adjustable turbo power limit setting does not work. The BIOS in my computer locks the turbo power limit register so the adjuster provided in XTU is fake. It does not accomplish anything. I can set XTU sky high and my 4700MQ will still be limited to the exact same 47W. Do some XTU testing. Hopefully you do not have this same problem.

 

The only way to stop thermal throttling, if you have that problem, is to try and improve CPU cooling. Some people like to pull their laptops apart and replace the thermal paste. Even something simple like blowing out the dust can significantly help cooling. XTU will show you your CPU temperatures and it will show if you have a thermal throttling problem.

I have cleaned out my laptop many times, new thermal paste and i have my fans set to 7000rpm 24/7, i undervolted by 0.085v which didnt make a dent in cooling but thermal throttling went from 3.14ghz to 3.25ghz, I get power limit throttling occassionaly but its mainly thermal throttling. i reach 88 degrees on a stress test

[HummusCake]

8 hours ago, D2ultima said:

That's your available system power, so yes you have enough power to "feed the computer". Increasing power limit would let the CPU pull its max speed at any given time, once it isn't overheating.

It's really simple, PL1 and PL2 are "Power Limit 1 and 2". PL1 is the indefinite power draw limit, and PL2 is the "burst performance" power draw limit. The highest PL2 can sustain itself is 2.5 minutes without any BIOS trickery, where the CPU can draw as much power as it allows (by default 57W for Haswell HQ chips).

 

It works as sort of a way to give you a short bit of time extra power, and in theory, is useful for CPU power draw spikes. For example let's say running a game at 120fps took an average of 70% of your CPU load and drew 40W. If you suddenly had say... a large spike of CPU-draw-heavy things on-screen, perhaps loading assets in for a lot of items or more of the map, or maybe a lot of models appeared on screen at once (perhaps during an in-game cutscene), and your CPU load went to 90% and for a few seconds it needed 50W. PL2 would let you have up to 57W for those... I don't know... 30 seconds or so? Instead of downclocking your CPU due to power limit.

 

On the other hand, if playing the game maxes out your CPU constantly and demands a consistent power draw of 55W on average, PL2 would be useless because after a minute or two, you'd be locked to 47W PL1 and your CPU would enter a state of permanent throttle until load relaxes for a certain period of time and PL2 is allowed to become active again.

 

ALL intel 4xxxHQ CPUs are EC-limited to 47W power draw for PL1. It is impossible to change it without modifing the EC, which is not possible on alienwares with 4xxxHQ and later CPUs, due to Secure Flash on the BIOS and EC meaning you need Alienware's Digital Signature or the system will reject the flash or brick itself as a response. The only way to improve power limits for PL1 on an intel 4xxxHQ CPU is to use Throttlestop's "Power Cut" feature, which as @unclewebb described above, tricks the CPU (and the EC) into thinking it's only drawing 3.5W regardless of the power you shove through it. Due to this, it is not possible to set a power limit for the CPU, you either allow it to take as much as it needs or you deal with the 47W power limit.

 

You can:
- undervolt the CPU (reduces power required and thus heat produced for the same performance). Without a power limit, this is a temperature drop across the board.

- repaste the laptop, preferably with Liquid Metal thermal paste if you have a copper heatsink contact, for better dispelling of heat

- prop the laptop up, most efficiently done by folding 3 or 4 blocks of toilet paper into small squares and putting one folded stack under each of the laptop's feet. Also suggested have been bottlecaps, but I prefer the cheapness/ease of access of toilet paper and how well it tends to grip surfaces.
- increase fan speed to maximum during high stress loads (not sure how you'd do that one)

I have fans set to maximum speed, cleaned out laptop entirely, undervolted, new thermal paste, i have a laptop cooler (not a pad) but you put behind the laptop and it has stands to put your laptop on to increase airflow. I will try the throttlestops power cut feature. And i just followed a post on google saying you can disable power limit throttling and i will do some stress tests to see how it does.

[D2ultima]

9 hours ago, linusfanboi_skrub1 said:

I have fans set to maximum speed, cleaned out laptop entirely, undervolted, new thermal paste, i have a laptop cooler (not a pad) but you put behind the laptop and it has stands to put your laptop on to increase airflow. I will try the throttlestops power cut feature. And i just followed a post on google saying you can disable power limit throttling and i will do some stress tests to see how it does.

You can't disable power limit throttle on 4xxxHQ without powercut. It's not possible. I'm the author of that mobile i7 info guide whoever quoted above, and whatever someone else said isn't going to work. It was on purpose by intel that these things don't draw any more power.