My "Gradual Upgrade" Build

[fordy_rounds]

So, this might be a little unusual, but I'm going to be gradually upgrading a really old rig over the next 6-8 months (as budget allows). I thought about just waiting and buying everything all at once, but I'm too impatient for that. I'd rather have a semi-usable system in the interim.

 

I'll attach some screenshots/photos later, and as I make updates.

 

So here's my starting point, most of which was given to me by a family member (and yes, it's a bit of a Frankenstein):

CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 220 2.8GHz

Motherboard: EMachines EL1358G (mini-ITX)

RAM: DDR3 3GB (1x1GB, 1x2GB, I'll update speed later)

GPU: NVidia GeForce 6150se 430 (integrated on motherboard)

Storage: 500GB Seagate HDD, salvaged from an old laptop (not original to the EMachines or Compaq system)

PSU: Whatever came with the case; I'll look up more details and update this later. Update: I haven't gotten a chance to crack it open and verify, but it's probably an HP 5188-2622 250W. Second Update: Specifically, it's a Bestec ATX-250-12Z Rev. D3R, and also has the aforementioned HP part number.

Case: Compaq case from maybe 15 years ago? I'll have to see if I can find more info and update it. It's a micro-ATX case. It had some extremely old components in it, which I ripped out in favor of the EL1358G and associated. Update: Looked it up, it's the case from a Compaq Presario SR5313WM.

 

So far I've bought a case and a PSU. I could have saved the case for last, but I didn't want to bother with putting new parts in the old case just to have to rip them out and re-case them later. I got the PSU so that I can add a GPU as the first performance upgrade; the current PSU doesn't have PCIE power connectors.

 

New case: Silverstone PS15W-G

New PSU: Enermax RevoBron 500W (I'm still waiting to get this, it's taking forever for them to ship it.)

 

The specifics of the new innards will depend on what I can get on sale, but here's the rough plan:

New GPU: RX 570 8GB or 580 (don't want to spend over $175 or so, but I want 6-8GB of VRAM)

New CPU: Something Ryzen, probably 2600.

New Motherboard: Depends on sales, but probably something B450. And definitely Micro-ATX, since I already bought the case (and I didn't want full ATX for space/size reasons)

New RAM: Some 2x8 kit

New Storage: I'll get an SSD, size and type TBD.

 

Now for the fun part: I've done a little bit of benchmarking, but not much. I ran Cinebench R15 and got a 108. I played Civilization V (a 10 year-old game) on all it's lowest settings and was getting 7 FPS with both cores pegged at 100% (and when I switched from "strategic" to "normal" mode, it dropped to 1 FPS. Good thing this is turned based so it sucks but is still kind of playable). Yeah, this thing is bad. The thermals are surprisingly good though; It's got whatever cooler the EMachines came with, plus I added an 82mm exhaust fan from a different system, and I topped out at 37C while benchmarking, and 31C while "gaming" with everything running at full blast. (The extra fan didn't have anywhere to plug in, so I've got it hooked straight to the PSU's 5V rail (via the floppy power connector) so it'll run but not be too loud.)

 

But hey, by the time all is done, it'll be all new components (except that I might keep the HDD as extra storage).

 

I'll update this every few months as I make improvements.

[fordy_rounds]

Update: With a little searching, I found Nvidia's Windows 8 drivers for the embedded video chip. Turns out they work for Windows 10 too, so now I'm actually using the Nvidia chip instead of making my CPU do all the work. Ran Civ 5 again, and now I get around 20 FPS in strategic view, and it's not pinning my CPU to the wall anymore. Still only 1-2 in "normal" view, though. So the game is playable, but I still need the new GPU to make it really playable.

[Mojo-Jojo]

Interesting upgrade you've got planned there. What's the reason GPU VRAM is so important to you? Just a curiosity.

[fordy_rounds]

42 minutes ago, Mojo-Jojo said:

Interesting upgrade you've got planned there. What's the reason GPU VRAM is so important to you? Just a curiosity.

I have (legal!) access to a free Prepar3d v5 license, and I'm an aviation nut. The 4GB RX 570 meets it's minimum specs, but I'd like to future-proof and get a little closer to the recommended specs.

[fordy_rounds]

Update: I pulled my new case out of its box again yesterday, and decided to do some testing on it. I plugged in everything I could into the EL1358G, and the Silverstone logo and case fan directly into the power supply. Everything seems to work like it's supposed to. I got sound out of the front panel audio jack; I don't have a mic so I couldn't test that half. The power button turned everything on, and both the power and HDD LEDs lit up properly. The bottom logo lights up in a nice bright blue that matches the power LED. The case fan, even with a full 12V, is incredibly quiet, which is awesome, and I hope I can find some decently quiet fans to match it for the front of the case. (I might unmount it at some point and see what fan it is.)

I wasn't able to test the front panel USB, though, unfortunately. It's got 2 USB 3.0 ports with a single internal header. The EL1358G only has 2.0 headers, and I don't have an adapter or expansion card. I might try just doing a continuity test with a multimeter later, just to be sure the ports aren't broken. It's not as easy as a plug-it-in test, but you do what you have to....

Finally, I'm still waiting on the new PSU. According to Amazon it should be here in about a week, but also it hasn't shipped yet....

And the GPU purchase will probably wait until June's budget allotment rolls around; I'm leaning toward the RX 580, though that's still subject to change.

[fordy_rounds]

Minor Update: Took a multimeter to the USB 3.0 ports yesterday. Dang, the header pins/holes are tiny! I couldn't get any of my regular header wires in, so I ended up using a resistor lead (clipping the multimeter probe to the same side of the resistor, so that the resistor wouldn't mess with my measurement) as a test probe. But everything has continuity, so if anything doesn't work it'll be the Mobo, not the case USB.

I have been debating whether to move everything into the new case when I get the GPU, or put the new PSU/GPU into the old case once I get them. I decided that I like having front-panel USB, so I'll be putting new parts in the old case until I get the new motherboard/cpu/ram. Which means I bought the new case way to early. Thought about returning it (which would let me buy a GPU right away instead of waiting another month) but decided it's a bit silly to return it just to buy it again in 4-6 months.

[fordy_rounds]

Power supply came yesterday! I ordered it 3+ weeks ago....

Anyway, I opened up the old box, pulled out all the power supply cables, plugged in the new supply, and everything worked.

The new PSU and case in their shipping boxes.

I like that it's semi-modular. Someday I'll be able to afford a full modular.

The old case. Not much to look at, but it works.

Inside the old rig. Yes, the cable management is terrible. There's literally no space behind the motherboard tray to put cables. And yes, my HDD is just floating there. This case has exactly zero 2.5" drive bays. If I were using it permanently I'd consider double stick tape or something, but since it's temporary I just let it hang.

A little cleaner view with all the power cables out.

And finally verifying that the new PSU isn't DOA. It's not.

Verification was a little interesting. This motherboard has a 20-pin connector and a 4-pin EPS. So I had to figure out how to separate the 4+4 cable. It gets worse though. This PSU has a 24-pin, not a 20+4. So I had to just plug it in with the extra 4 pins hanging past the edge of the connector. I googled it to be sure I did it right, and it worked fine.

[fordy_rounds]

So, I'm seriously considering changing up my upgrade order in a way that basically scraps the old rig as close to right away as possible. That means getting motherboard, APU (not CPU), and RAM all at once, then later adding the GPU (likely after adding an SSD).

 

But that leaves me with some choices. Do I go with a cheap APU, knowing that I'm likely to upgrade it soon-ish? If I do that, I'd get the Athlon 3000G, which I can get as soon as next week, assuming current prices hold. However, it might be 2-3 years before I can upgrade, and I'm not sure I want to be stuck with only 2C/4T for that long.

If I wait another month (July), I can afford Ryzen 3 3200G. That's a little bit more tolerable at 4C/4T, and better graphics to tide me over until I add a GPU. If I wait until August, I can afford Ryzen 5 3400G, 4C/8T, and even better graphics. In all three cases, I plan to pair it with 16G of RAM, probably at 3000MHz (I know the Ryzen APUs only support up to 2966 anyway, so anything faster than 3000 is pointless; I haven't looked at that with the 3000G). Alternatively, I could do only 8G of RAM with the 3200G in June, and 3400G in July, but it'd likely be a single 8G stick, which isn't ideal (or 2x4 at only 2400MHz). I could probably justify a RAM upgrade earlier than a full CPU upgrade, though.

 

So, really, I'm trading time for performance here, and it's not an easy decision. Any recommendations?

[fordy_rounds]

I've decided I'm willing to wait a little longer for better performance. (The MB market being in the toilet right now certainly doesn't help.) The VGA output (yes, VGA, as in analog video) on my old MB is starting to give out on me (or maybe it's the cable, I'm not sure, and don't really care). So I want to upgrade it to a digital video output.

As a result, I'm going to prioritize buying a GPU. I've got the funding now, and will probably order a GTX 1650 Super today (maybe tomorrow). Yes, I know, it's super overpowered for my current CPU; I don't care, because the idea is to keep it for the final build, rather than buying a cheap one now and then another one later. I just hope it'll play nice with my old MB and its legacy BIOS (yes, it's old enough to be not-UEFI).

In 2-3 months (September-October) I should have enough money to get the MB+RAM+CPU, probably a 3300X (though I've noticed Micro Center often has some deals on the i5 9400F, so that's also an option).

[fordy_rounds]

Well, I did it. Just ordered a 1650 Super. Here goes hoping it works with the old system. I'll update this again once it comes in and gets installed/tested.

[wall03]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:55 PM, fordy_rounds said:

Well, I did it. Just ordered a 1650 Super. Here goes hoping it works with the old system. I'll update this again once it comes in and gets installed/tested.

Reminder to update us. Whats the status?

[fordy_rounds]

18 hours ago, wall03 said:

Reminder to update us. Whats the status?

In transit, delivery expected on Wednesday.

[fordy_rounds]

GPU came yesterday. Sorry, I don't have any pictures yet.

I recased everything because the new PSU was already in the new case with cables preliminarily run, and I didn't want to have to undo all that. I verified that everything still booted and worked fine after the recase. Then I plugged in the GPU, unplugged the VGA cable (from the MB) and plugged in an HDMI cable (from the GPU, but going to the same monitor). Booted it up, and it worked!

But the resolution was terrible. Of course it was, I didn't have the drivers installed yet, so it was running as "Windows Basic Display Adapter." Downloaded the drivers and set them to installing; because of my slow-as-hell HDD, it was taking too long, and I had to go to bed.

Woke up in the morning, woke up the computer, and it didn't wake up right. Ended up doing a force reboot. And now, I get video briefly—I see the BIOS logo and the Windows logo, then, presumably when it loads the graphics drivers, everything goes black. And the VGA does nothing either, presumably because Windows is auto-disabling the iGPU in favor of the AIB, which would be great if it worked....

But I had to get to work today, so I haven't been able to spend a lot of time troubleshooting. I wonder if something went wrong with the install when I wasn't looking (seems likely), so my first step tonight/this weekend will be to unplug the card, boot it up on VGA, and uninstall/reinstall the drivers. (I'm also considering jumping into an SSD, although that could delay my MB/RAM/CPU purchase by another month, and I'm already looking at September or October....)

[wall03]

58 minutes ago, fordy_rounds said:

I wonder if something went wrong with the install when I wasn't looking (seems likely

yeah seems likely.

 

58 minutes ago, fordy_rounds said:

I'm also considering jumping into an SSD, although that could delay my MB/RAM/CPU purchase by another month, and I'm already looking at September or October....

hmm. SSD would do wonders but also further delay the build. Maybe you could wait for new CPU and then the wait would be worth it (unless someone already said it somewhere here), because they are supposed to come out around that time.

[fordy_rounds]

Well, the GPU still isn't working. I suspect it just isn't supported by the motherboard, and there's probably nothing I can do about it. I posted about it in the troubleshooting board, but have only gotten one response.

 

I did go ahead and splurge on the SSD, though, picked up a WD Blue 500GB (2.5") for $70 (tax included) at Walmart. Yes, there's cheaper half-terabyte drives out there, but I wanted it now as opposed to waiting for shipping.

[fordy_rounds]

Well, not content to just wait it out a few more months, I "sprung" for a $15 used EVGA GT 430 1GB. It's from 2010, the EL1358G is from 2010-11, so I'm hoping that, being from the same era, they'll work together. It's not as large of an upgrade as the 1650 Super, but it's still a definite step up from the integrated carp, and it'll get me by for a few months. I will return and report once it comes.

[fordy_rounds]

Well, the GT 430 came in Saturday. I got it plugged in, installed drivers, and it works! This is, despite being a card from 2010, light-years ahead of the integrated graphics. I'm very happy with it.

 

Some pics:

Started out by re-casing the motherboard, since I already had the PSU cables loosely run through the PS15.

Unboxing the 1650 Super.

And installed. Too bad it wasn't compatible.

The $15 GT 430.

The two cards, for comparison. Styles sure have changed.

Finally, the working GT 430 installed. This is how things are going to stay for a little while. The cable management is messy; I can't plug in the USB 3 cable into this motherboard, since there's no header for it, and I don't want to zip tie all the cables into place until I have my final parts, in case header locations are different.

I ran Civilization 5 on medium-high settings, and got about 31FPS in normal mode. (By comparison, I was getting 20 in strategic mode and 1ish on normal mode, all on lowest settings, on the integrated carp.) I ran Civ 6 on lowest settings (I'm technically a little under spec for CPU, GPU, and system RAM) and got 30FPS. I ran Hue (admittedly not a graphically intense game, but an interesting little platformer) and got over 100FPS (though anything over 59 is overkill, since my monitor's refresh rate is 59Hz...). I'm really happy with this, and can't wait to see how the much better, much more modern 1650 Super will do.

About that.... I planned to return the 1650 Super and use the money to get my next motherboard, RAM, and CPU, which I would then use with the 430 for a few months until I could afford the better GPU again. Unfortunately, between restocking fees and shipping, I realized I'd lose about $45 if I did so. I decided that wasn't worth it, so it's going to sit on my shelf for a few months. I went ahead and submitted for a rebate on it, so that decision is irreversible.

[fordy_rounds]

No new pictures (yet), but I still have an update.

I got a KVM from work to ease WFH; it's got DisplayPort connections, though. It turns out that a DP->DVI/HDMI/VGA conversion is actually pretty straightforward, but DVI/HDMI->DP is really expensive (and also hard to find). That means that my GT 430, which only has DVI and mini-HDMI, isn't compatible with this switch. I can still switch my keyboard/mouse, but I have to push both the KVM switch and monitor buttons to switch completely, which is... inconvenient. But hey, the 1650S has a DP jack! Too bad I can't use it with this motherboard....

So, with this in mind, I took a look at Micro Center's website. The nearest MC is about an hour from me, so not close enough to just browse, but close enough to pick up an order. I had a budget of about $275, though I could flex it by about $10. Turns out, they were running a bundle with a R5 3600 (which comes with the Wraith Stealth cooler, which I'll use for the time being; I don't have budget for an aftermarket cooler right now) and Gigabyte B450M DS3H for about $250, tax included. I jumped on it. Their RAM selection wasn't great, though.... So I ordered an 8GB stick of Titan Z 3200MHz online for $30, and drove to MC this morning. I now own a modern-ish motherboard (I say -ish because it's B450, not B550) and CPU, and as soon as my RAM comes in the mail, I'll be able to build this thing! I'm so excited!

And then I just have to get fans, and better peripherals. (I just got a brand new keyboard from work, so I might wait a while on that, but I want a nicer mouse than I could get from work, and a new monitor too, possibly a 1440p.)

[fordy_rounds]

The system is built, although there's still room for improvement (details after build pics).

Here's all the parts I needed for this, except the case. (Also, I've been using the PSU already, so it's not new; I just included it here for thoroughness.

That beautiful Ryzen CPU slotted into place. This is the best CPU I've ever owned, and I'm super excited about it.

A single 8GB stick of T-Force Vulcan Z 3200MHz RAM. I plan to double (or more) this eventually, but this is all that fit in the budget at the moment. Also, using the stock cooler (subject to change, see my discussion of thermals later).

Added the GPU to the bench build so I could make sure it all worked before installing into my case. It posted, and into the case it went.

Beginning the install into my case, so the GPU had to come out (temporarily).

And, the final build (pictured with side panel off to avoid reflections in the glass).

 

It performs pretty well, and so far I've been pretty happy with it, though I haven't had a ton of time to play with it.

However....

I installed Folding@Home. I set it to fold on High, and my CPU hit thermal limits. I set it to medium, and I was still well into the 90s. Even on Light, I get into the 80s. So yeah, that's gonna be a problem....

Right now, as you can see in the pics, I have only one case fan, set as an intake; since, on the old build, the GPU consistently got warmer than the CPU, I put it down low to blow fresh air toward the GPU. In this setup, I think (for the short term) I need to move it up to blow fresh air over the CPU (or change it to exhaust from the CPU area, though I like the idea of having it positive-pressured), as I think the problem is that the CPU cooler (in addition to being the stock cooler) is just recycling hot air around itself, so the air never gets a proper chance to cool down, resulting in quickly rising temps.

The longer term solutions, of course, are to add case fans and upgrade the CPU cooler. I'm thinking of going with a liquid AIO, purely for aesthetic reasons. I don't like the look of most aftermarket air coolers, as they tend to be big and bulky; I just like how comparatively sleek and sexy liquid cooling can be, though I don't want the expense or trouble of going with a custom loop. On the other hand, they're also more expensive—though I can get a cheap AIO for about the cost of some decent fans and air cooler, and it includes the radiator fans (which would also act as the case's intake fans; this case only supports a front-mounted radiator, as there's just not enough clearance between the top and the MB). So, things to consider. Any advice or recommendations?

[fordy_rounds]

New update!!!!

 

I've done some pretty good upgrades this month.

 

First, I bought some of these fans. I installed them, and..... they didn't make much difference. Things were still running pretty hot.

Nice white-framed case fans. Too bad they didn't affect the temperature much.

 

The eagle-eyed among you may also notice that the WD SSD got swapped out for a PNY. I bought the PNY for a laptop upgrade, but ultimately decided I liked it better aesthetically in this case (aesthetics don't matter in the laptop), so I swapped them out, and the WD went into the laptop.

 

I thought about it, and I realized that, after paying $40 for these fans and another $40 or more for a good air cooler, I'd be $80+ into cooling; additionally, my choices of air cooler were limited by the case's 154mm specification for max cooler height. Most of the really good tower coolers are taller than that. But hey, I realized, for $80+ I can get into a cheap-ish AIO. So I did. I returned the white fans and caught a good sale on Cooler Master's ML240L ($65, plus there's a rebate, so the eventual cost is only $55; less than I'd have paid for a good air cooler and fans). I also got a matching exhaust fan for the rear for $12. Thus:

Sorry it's a little washed out—that RGB is super bright, and hard to properly photograph. (See note below.) It's sexier in person.

 

Yes, I know, I know, I still need to double the RAM to get dual-channel. But I've gotten into Folding@Home, and just didn't have the thermal headroom to properly fold on the CPU. I was at 80+ folding on only 5 threads; now I fold on 10 (leaving a couple for GPU coordination and other things) and I've been pretty steady at 70C.

 

I learned, with both sets of RGB, that my MB doesn't support dimming, apparently, each color is either on full blast or off. This limits me to only 8 colors (blue, red, green, purple, yellow, cyan, white, black). It also only supports static lighting, no automatic color-changing. I'm ok with this, though. I've set it to red in the BIOS and blue through Fusion, so it boots and red and turns blue when Windows loads Fusion, then I just leave it blue while running (although I typically turn the RGB off at night).

 

And one last upgrade: I got tired of the finickiness of my USB Wi-Fi adapter, and added in a PCI-E Wi-Fi adapter. (I had an Amazon gift card, and my RAM is only available from Newegg, so I got Wi-Fi instead of RAM.)

It's pretty snug there in between the GPU and PSU, but that's the only slot available. I now have no room for expansion. But that's ok, as I also have no plans for further expansions. What else do folks use PCI-E slots for, anyway?

 

There's still room for improvement on cable management, but with Folding Month going on, I didn't want to leave it powered off for too long while I did the AIO and Wi-Fi upgrades. I'll improve it and add RAM after Folding Month.

[Morrie Sells Wigs]

Pleased for you, my friend. 

 

This is a true pc hobbyists. 

[fordy_rounds]

This will likely be my final post here (except maybe responding to responses). The gradual upgrade is finally finished!

I got a new "monitor" on a Black Friday sale (sorry, I don't have pics, but... it looks like a screen.) It's actually a TV, but I verified that it was well-reviewed for PC use before purchasing. It's a 43" 4K TV, and I love it. It's awesome for productivity; I can split windows out into corners and it's effectively 4 1080p screens, but bezel-less. Since I also have my work laptop connected to it, it's very useful. It's also great for gaming, even though I can't do super high settings due to my 1650S. I love it for flight sims; despite not being able to load the best texture packs (due to VRAM limits), it's so much more immersive than any other screen I've used, just because of the sheer size. (Someday I'd love to upgrade the GPU, but that's not in the cards right now.)

Then I ordered a second stick of RAM.

Despite clicking on "buy again" on Newegg, I somehow ordered the wrong thing.... Can you spot the difference? It's very subtle, and I didn't even notice it at first.

Yep, that's right, the XMP profile is different. So, back to Newegg it went.

Once I got the correct RAM ordered (3200, not 3000), I discovered that my motherboard's manual is weird. It shows:

So, I followed it to the letter, and put my RAM in what I thought were slots 1 and 2. I noticed that it seemed unusual, considering that it's almost always 1 and 3 (from what I've read online). I turned it on, looked in CPU-Z, and..... it showed RAM in slots 1 and 2, but still Single Channel mode. So I shut it down, swapped to the more normal 1 and 3, and now CPU-Z shows 1 and 3 and Dual Channel mode. Upon further investigation, I noticed that table actual has the slots listed as 4,2,3,1; and indeed, the silkscreen on the board itself shows 4,2,3,1 also. So by that metric, I'm in slots 4 and 3. So maybe I should move them over one to be in 2 and 1? But I probably won't, it's too much work.

 

Finally, I did a little more cable management to try to clean things up some, especially in front of the lower radiator fan. It's still not perfect, but it's a lot better than it was.

 

Here's the final product, though I need to take more glowy pics too:

 

Overall I'm pretty happy with it, and it's been a fun journey. There's room for upgrades still; in particular, I'd love to move into an M.2 NMVe SSd, and the aforementioned better GPU; but I'm very happy with what I built, and I'm calling it DONE (for now).