Newbie entry audiophile. Need Help/Advice

[Sansa]

Ok, i wanna be precise, so be prepared to read... bear with me.

So... im new to the world of audio entusiast. Im pretty ignorant on the subject, and even though i have been watching some audiophile youtubers like Z Review, metal571, Joshua Valour, Badseed Tech (and of course techquickie), and reading in forums about the subject, im still trying to figure stuff out.

 

Im about to buy the Philips Shp9500 headphones, which i believe are great headphones, specially for the price (and thats important because again, im new to this, i dont wanna spend a small fortune and not be able to apreciate it). I feel pretty confident about them being good, specially with the review made by the Rtings site about them. The other ones i was considering were the Philips Fidelio X2HR, but at double the price, i believe that the quality increase may only be marginal.

Philips SHP9500 specs:

Impedance: 32 ohm,

maximum power input: 200Mw,

sensitivity: 101 dB,

speaker diameter: 50mm,

Frequency response: 12-35 000Hz

 

The best headphones in my posesion right now are Sony MDRzx110nc. Beyond those, i never had any good headphones, so again, im new to this HI-RES audio thing.

 

THE QUESTION: Do i need to buy a DAC or AMP or DAC/AMP for those headphones??? i read that they dont need any, but that the sound may be better with an amp. If thats the case i was aiming towards the Sound Blaster G6 (or a FiiO K3 DSD256)

The thing is that i own an ASUS STRIX x370-F motherboard, and i believe that i may no need a DAC, but maybe i do need an AMP. The strix has the following audio specs:

ROG SupremeFX 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC S1220A
- Dual Headphone Amplifiers
- Impedance sense for front and rear headphone outputs
- Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
- High quality 120 dB SNR stereo playback output and 113 dB SNR recording input
- SupremeFX Shielding Technology
- Supports up to 32-Bit/192kHz playback *²
 

I DONT UNDERSTAND how asus can say that it supports 32-bit/192khz playback, which i believe is "studio quality", if the headphones that may be connected to them may need an amp to deliver that kind of quality. Is that some kind of bluffing asus did or there is something im not understanding well?

 

ALSO, and this may be the most important thing, i was considering to buy an audio interface soon to record some guitar playing, since its been years since i dont play and wanted to make a comeback. For that, i was aiming to get a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (3rd Gen), and i came across a post that stated that with an audio interface like that, you dont need a DAC or an AMP for the headphones, because they are part of that audio interface. 

The focusrite scarlett 2i2 (3rd gen) relevant spec: A/D Resolution 24-bit/192 kHz

If i connect that audio interface to my motherboard i will be limited to those 24-bit? if the asus can deliver 32-bit, i dont want to be limited by the audio interface. What should i do then?

 

Hope someone can help me, i know the post is long but its because even though i made my research, the subject is kinda overwhelming, even more since i dont own anything like these products, so im walking in the dark here.

 

 

 

 

[Jumballi]

yeah so ignore everything the motherboard told you and still buy the DAC, I have the same motherboard and can assuredly tell you it's still bad.

[homeap5]

I help you with something.

 

24/192 is a lie. It's useless format that gives you only bigger files and may give you bigger distortions.

 

Watch this:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

 

It's "must see" for every audio enthusiasts. And find article of this guy about 24/192 format - it's very interesting.

 

All you need is good quality source (proper master CD) and good audio components with as low level of noise and distortions as possible. And then 44100 @ 16 bits will be all you need.

 

Amplifier is good thing. Buying good headphones doesn't make you audiophile. Good amplifier and good speakers plus good dac or soundcard can.

[KoreyCreative]

1 hour ago, Sansa said:

Ok, i wanna be precise, so be prepared to read... bear with me.

So... im new to the world of audio entusiast. Im pretty ignorant on the subject, and even though i have been watching some audiophile youtubers like Z Review, metal571, Joshua Valour, Badseed Tech (and of course techquickie), and reading in forums about the subject, im still trying to figure stuff out.

 

Im about to buy thef headphones, which i believe are great headphones, specially for the price (and thats important because again, im new to this, i dont wanna spend a small fortune and not be able to apreciate it). I feel pretty confident about them being good, specially with the review made by the Rtings site about them. The other ones i was considering were the Philips Fidelio X2HR, but at double the price, i believe that the quality increase may only be marginal.

Philips SHP9500 specs:

Impedance: 32 ohm,

maximum power input: 200Mw,

sensitivity: 101 dB,

speaker diameter: 50mm,

Frequency response: 12-35 000Hz

 

The best headphones in my posesion right now are Sony MDRzx110nc. Beyond those, i never had any good headphones, so again, im new to this HI-RES audio thing.

 

THE QUESTION: Do i need to buy a DAC or AMP or DAC/AMP for those headphones??? i read that they dont need any, but that the sound may be better with an amp. If thats the case i was aiming towards the Sound Blaster G6 (or a FiiO K3 DSD256)

The thing is that i own an ASUS STRIX 370-F motherboard, and i believe that i may no need a DAC, but maybe i do need an AMP. The strix has the following audio specs:

ROG SupremeFX 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC S1220A
- Dual Headphone Amplifiers
- Impedance sense for front and rear headphone outputs
- Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
- High quality 120 dB SNR stereo playback output and 113 dB SNR recording input
- SupremeFX Shielding Technology
- Supports up to 32-Bit/192kHz playback *²
 

I DONT UNDERSTAND how asus can say that it supports 32-bit/192khz playback, which i believe is "studio quality", if the headphones that may be connected to them may need an amp to deliver that kind of quality. Is that some kind of bluffing asus did or there is something im not understanding well?

 

ALSO, and this may be the most important thing, i was considering to buy an audio interface soon to record some guitar playing, since its been years since i dont play and wanted to make a comeback. For that, i was aiming to get a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (3rd Gen), and i came across a post that stated that with an audio interface like that, you dont need a DAC or an AMP for the headphones, because they are part of that audio interface. 

The focusrite scarlett 2i2 (3rd gen) relevant spec: A/D Resolution 24-bit/192 kHz

If i connect that audio interface to my motherboard i will be limited to those 24-bit? if the asus can deliver 32-bit, i dont want to be limited by the audio interface. What should i do then?

 

Hope someone can help me, i know the post is long but its because even though i made my research, the subject is kinda overwhelming, even more since i dont own anything like these products, so im walking in the dark here.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't use your motherboard for  the digital to analog. I have a Asus b450 Strix gaming - F and it sounds very odd to listen to anything on it. So i went back to an old FIIO $19 DAC.

I also would stop reading into the specs of hardware. You'll get lost in the marketing. About the audio interface. Yes, it's like everything in a bundle. You woudln't need to buy a headphone amp or a DAC, that is unless you didn't like the sound that DAC used. Digital-to-analog conversion is just a statement on what it's doing. The chip used is how it's going to sound.

I wouldn't read also into the high sample rates or bit depths as well. To understand 32 bit, i would google around 32 bit float point. On DAW hardware you would expect marketing for it, but it mostly how all DAW hosts record while in the software. Unless you're trying to listen to 7.3 on some amazing setup, i'm not sure you would ever need anything over 16, 24 bit, at 48kHz / 44.1 kHz.

I'm not trying to confuse you and if i did, sorry. Just trying to help you understand that it's more about personal taste than numbers on a product. I say that as you stated something along those lines with "If i connect that audio interface to my motherboard i will be limited to those 24-bit? if the asus can deliver 32-bit, i dont want to be limited by the audio interface. What should i do then?"

Now i will say that if your headphones are hard to power, you might hear a something different from using a good powered headphone amp. For example, i'm using a

FIIO E09K headphone amp 
FIIo Tascam DAC

AKG K702s
Mackie MR8's Monitors

I also use a DTI dual transformer / isolator. The DTI is to remove any unwanted noise from my setup.

Your best bet, know what you want from your headphones before you purcahse. For example i wanted a flat curve on mine, so i could EQ and mix without the master changing in a car or a different studio. You might want something with more lows, or a different sound altogether. So many online sites with reviews its hard to know what is paid content.

So small tip list

Know what your want in your headphones. (soundstage)
What type of headphones do you like better? (Closed back, open back?)
Please don't get lost into just adding fancy cables to your headphones, it doesn't matter much!
Don't get lost in all the specs.
Only you will know what you like the most. (Listen to your ears!)

There are so many brand loyal, biased sites online now, most channels offer their opinions as facts. best bet, go try a pair in store like a guitar center or something (once they re-open). If you can't wait, than best to find un-biased reviews on the product you're lookng at. That is the hard thing. Most reviews are paid now, so it's to know what is really good from just watching videos.

[homeap5]

37 minutes ago, Popa2caps said:

Most reviews are paid now, so it's to know what is really good from just watching videos.

Even if not, they're very "creative" - you can read very nice-sounding terms that fits to basically any product. "Detailed, dynamic sound"? "Musical sound"? "Entertaining sound"? Or texts like: "bass is ample, with plenty of warmth and depth to keep you enveloped". What t... f... that means? What is the different between "detailed", "musical" and "entertaining sound"? "Plenty of warmth"? I would to hear "cold bass".

[KoreyCreative]

6 minutes ago, homeap5 said:

Even if not, they're very "creative" - you can read very nice-sounding terms that fits to basically any product. "Detailed, dynamic sound"? "Musical sound"? "Entertaining sound"? Or texts like: "bass is ample, with plenty of warmth and depth to keep you enveloped". What t... f... that means? What is the different between "detailed", "musical" and "entertaining sound"? "Plenty of warmth"? I would to hear "cold bass".

Yah, very true. i don't myself watch online sites like those talking about headphones or products, by i understand what you mean. To me Dynamic sound is the signal to noise ratio. Warmth is the mid range in my eyes, like 110hz to 350 - 400 hz.

Depth to keep you enveloped haha yah, new one on me.

 

[Derkoli]

9 hours ago, Popa2caps said:

Yah, very true. i don't myself watch online sites like those talking about headphones or products, by i understand what you mean. To me Dynamic sound is the signal to noise ratio. Warmth is the mid range in my eyes, like 110hz to 350 - 400 hz.

Depth to keep you enveloped haha yah, new one on me.

 

Ehhh something that sounds "dynamic" just usually has a good dynamic range, and usually a fair bit of current behind it's output. But any well designed product should have a good dynamic range.

 

"Depth" of sound usually comes from the speakers/headphones themselves, not the electronics driving them lol.

[rice guru]

IMO if your mobo unless your mobo sounds like utter trash spending extra on that headphone is uneccesary Im not a big fan of it personally so thake that into consideration personally its not a very enjoyable headphone to me. but its efficient enough that it doesnt really need an amp and like I said buy a DAC amp if your mobo just sounds like trash but if it sounds clean your fine for the most part.

[The Flying Sloth]

I tend to agree with Rice, the headphones don't technically need a DAC or amplifier and unless your motherboard audio is actively negatively impacting your listening experience don't worry about it. I'm not a huge fan of onboard audio because my workload requires features that it just doesn't have but truthfully I've found it more than good enough for the basic listening it sounds like you'll be doing.

Also, Homeap5 is completely wrong when they said "Buying good headphones doesn't make you audiophile. Good amplifier and good speakers plus good dac or soundcard can." Nobody should be gatekeeping, being an audiophile just means that you care about sound quality, and being that there is no objective peak for sound quality there can be no objective requirements to be an audiophile. I'm a member of other forums where audiophile can mean anything from that guy with the 30 subs in their car to the purist with a $200K analogue listening room, obviously the priorities of these people will be completely different but they both really care about their subjective ideals of sound quality and are both audiophiles in the rawest sense of the term.

Sloth

[Sansa]

20 hours ago, Popa2caps said:

(...) I'm not trying to confuse you and if i did, sorry. Just trying to help you understand that it's more about personal taste than numbers on a product. 

Your best bet, know what you want from your headphones before you purcahse. For example i wanted a flat curve on mine, so i could EQ and mix without the master changing in a car or a different studio. You might want something with more lows, or a different sound altogether. So many online sites with reviews its hard to know what is paid content.

So small tip list

Know what your want in your headphones. (soundstage)
What type of headphones do you like better? (Closed back, open back?)
Please don't get lost into just adding fancy cables to your headphones, it doesn't matter much!
Don't get lost in all the specs.
Only you will know what you like the most. (Listen to your ears!)

Thanks everybody for your insights, really much appreciated, everyone.

 

Homeap5 ill check that video soon, thanks.

 

Popa2Caps you didnt confused me man, lol, and no need to be sorry

I understood your advices.... i felt that, im getting more info that i can handle... I usually do though, the problem is that with audio is more difficult.

 

For example, how do i know if i prefer closed back or open back headphones if i haven tried open back? I guess the on-ear sonys i mentioned i have can be considered closed, but i dont know how open backs sound. Maybe i love them, maybe i dont. But i was thinking that even though i purchase the shp9500 and i hate them, at least i have good open back headph ones around. I worry most for the other stuff, the dacs, amps, etc... annd how i can get the best of the headphones i may use. Buying all that stuff can make the price go really high and wasnt sure what to get or what i needed. I now know that i may be ok with just the headphones or the interface when i get it, which i will sooner or later.

 

For the moment, with the coronavirus and all... im bitting myself trying to not pull the trigger since stuff can get really ugly fast. Im kinda decided to get the shp9500, and the focusrite scarlett 4i4 interface. But i guess im gonna have to get the focusrite some other time because it will be too much money in one sitting. 

 

About the shp9500... im between pulling the trigger now, because i dont wanna miss them since they can get out of stock... and waiting for them to get cheaper than the 74 dollars they are now... i may just get them and if they get cheaper... well.. ill say hi again to my friend, "the buyers remorse" i guess...

 

 

 

 

[kokakolia]

5 hours ago, Sansa said:

About the shp9500... im between pulling the trigger now, because i dont wanna miss them since they can get out of stock... and waiting for them to get cheaper than the 74 dollars they are now... i may just get them and if they get cheaper... well.. ill say hi again to my friend, "the buyers remorse" i guess...

Don't believe the hype! Headphones and speakers are a frustrating hobby because you trust other people's opinions to make informed purchases. And buyer's remorse is inevitable! You'll definitely have to buy several headphones until you find the sweet spot. 

 

I very much dislike the Philips SHP 9500 for music. They just reproduce sound in a dry, grainy matter with sharp treble and oddly recessed vocals. And the bass is so lackluster that any song driven by a beat will sound flat. To my ears, the Philips SHP 9500 only sound good with Hans Zimmer. Heaven forbid you play anything else! The build quality is nothing to write home about either. You get a nice metal headband, but everything else is made out of this hard, sharp creaky plastic. The earpads are made out of this recycled tote bag material. The SHP 9500 feel like $50 headphones. I can't believe that people were paying over $100 for the SHP 9500, when (IMHO) the Sennheiser HD558/HD559 are better in every single way. The Sennheiser are just a smoother, more natural sounding headphone. They sound good with any genre of music, not just Hans Zimmer. 

 

I cannot call a headphone good if I don't enjoy using it. The Philips SHP 9500 get a thumbs down from me. 

 

That being said, the Philips SHP 9500 are excellent comfortable gaming headphones. Their open back nature gives in edge in gaming. If you have a smaller head, I would avoid the Philips since they wear large. 

 

IMHO, I wouldn't pay more than $60 for the Philips SHP 9500. I found $40 headphones like the AKG K92 to be far more enjoyable. But the AKG are not objectively better, just different. They're a closed back headphone with a thicker, warmer bassier sound (at the expense of sounding less spacious and detailed than the SHP 9500). 

 

For $74 I would get the AKG K92 and a pair of cheap Logitech computer speakers like the Z200. It's not "audiophile" (audio - snob) grade, but it gets the job done. But that's just me. I'm in the stupid minority for disliking the SHP 9500. 

[rice guru]

6 hours ago, Sansa said:

Thanks everybody for your insights, really much appreciated, everyone.

 

Homeap5 ill check that video soon, thanks.

 

Popa2Caps you didnt confused me man, lol, and no need to be sorry

I understood your advices.... i felt that, im getting more info that i can handle... I usually do though, the problem is that with audio is more difficult.

 

For example, how do i know if i prefer closed back or open back headphones if i haven tried open back? I guess the on-ear sonys i mentioned i have can be considered closed, but i dont know how open backs sound. Maybe i love them, maybe i dont. But i was thinking that even though i purchase the shp9500 and i hate them, at least i have good open back headph ones around. I worry most for the other stuff, the dacs, amps, etc... annd how i can get the best of the headphones i may use. Buying all that stuff can make the price go really high and wasnt sure what to get or what i needed. I now know that i may be ok with just the headphones or the interface when i get it, which i will sooner or later.

 

For the moment, with the coronavirus and all... im bitting myself trying to not pull the trigger since stuff can get really ugly fast. Im kinda decided to get the shp9500, and the focusrite scarlett 4i4 interface. But i guess im gonna have to get the focusrite some other time because it will be too much money in one sitting. 

 

About the shp9500... im between pulling the trigger now, because i dont wanna miss them since they can get out of stock... and waiting for them to get cheaper than the 74 dollars they are now... i may just get them and if they get cheaper... well.. ill say hi again to my friend, "the buyers remorse" i guess...

 

 

 

 

Well if your truly curious go for it. Just make sure your buying from a place with a good return policy. I agree with @kokakolia's overall impressions of them and the 559 would be a safer much more enjoyable route to go

[KoreyCreative]

8 hours ago, Sansa said:

Thanks everybody for your insights, really much appreciated, everyone.

 

Homeap5 ill check that video soon, thanks.

 

Popa2Caps you didnt confused me man, lol, and no need to be sorry

I understood your advices.... i felt that, im getting more info that i can handle... I usually do though, the problem is that with audio is more difficult.

 

For example, how do i know if i prefer closed back or open back headphones if i haven tried open back? I guess the on-ear sonys i mentioned i have can be considered closed, but i dont know how open backs sound. Maybe i love them, maybe i dont. But i was thinking that even though i purchase the shp9500 and i hate them, at least i have good open back headph ones around. I worry most for the other stuff, the dacs, amps, etc... annd how i can get the best of the headphones i may use. Buying all that stuff can make the price go really high and wasnt sure what to get or what i needed. I now know that i may be ok with just the headphones or the interface when i get it, which i will sooner or later.

 

For the moment, with the coronavirus and all... im bitting myself trying to not pull the trigger since stuff can get really ugly fast. Im kinda decided to get the shp9500, and the focusrite scarlett 4i4 interface. But i guess im gonna have to get the focusrite some other time because it will be too much money in one sitting. 

 

About the shp9500... im between pulling the trigger now, because i dont wanna miss them since they can get out of stock... and waiting for them to get cheaper than the 74 dollars they are now... i may just get them and if they get cheaper... well.. ill say hi again to my friend, "the buyers remorse" i guess...

 

 

 

 

For $73.99 just get them. With that many reviews on amazon, i would at least test them out, what is the worst thing that could happen? You dislike them and get a full refund in 2 days, meh.

I'll be direct, no one will give you better advice than your own ears. Audio at this moment is full of a lot of scams with HIFI this or better cable that. What it really comes down to, is what you your self.

[SwiftGTi]

Hi There,

Please, don't just look at the bit rate ability of your audio device. There are two reasons why you might want to go with a different DAC than the integrated one on your motherboard. First is sound quality. Depending on the quality of the components selected buy the manufacturer and the way they are integrated together, you will have different sound signature. Certain person like different sound signature. So, selecting a sound signature that fits your liking comes with experience. But also, usually speaking, external DACs are easier to design to reject noise, which means their floor noise is usually lower than their internal counterpart. Second is the ability to push current in order to drive efficiently bigger, or harder to drive, headphones. Integrated DACs will generally be low power versions. As add-on DACs will have high quality drivers that will allow you to push the necessary current to drive higher quality headphones without them falling apart, in the sound department. They will be able to keep a tight bass, as an example, when driven with a proper amount of current without any distortion, as opposed to a loosy, distorted bass when there's not enough current.

 

Just as an example, my audio setup on my PC is an internal Asus Essence STX II with Bose Companion 3. The Bose system is only used to control the volume level and plug the headphone (I'm only using the pod). As for my headphones, I'm using a lot of different ones, depending on what I'm listening to of what I'm doing, but here's a short list:

Sennheiser momentum (original, first version, over-ear);

Sennheiser IE60

Sennheiser IE800

Audio-Technica ATH-ESW9

Shure SE535

 

There you go. I just hope I made it simple enough for you to have a basic understanding.

[CTR640]

I too agree with rice guru.

 

The headphones should be prioritized as first and then dac/amp if needed. I have here 4 audiophile headphones and they all have their own sound signatures using my same sources and one of them is a Fiio E10K.

 

According to some users here the SHP9500 is a much overrated headphone with lack of bass.

[Sansa]

On 5/6/2020 at 12:43 PM, CTR640 said:

I too agree with rice guru.

 

The headphones should be prioritized as first and then dac/amp if needed. I have here 4 audiophile headphones and they all have their own sound signatures using my same sources and one of them is a Fiio E10K.

 

According to some users here the SHP9500 is a much overrated headphone with lack of bass.

I went with the shp9500. Im waiting the shipping now.

 

Return policy dont matter to me because im in another country so sending something back and home again costs too much so it isnt worth it.

 

So... ill tell you what i think about them when i get them. Thanks to all. 

 

Btw, If they aint awesome, its ok, at least i didnt break the bank

[kokakolia]

11 hours ago, Sansa said:

I went with the shp9500. Im waiting the shipping now.

 

Return policy dont matter to me because im in another country so sending something back and home again costs too much so it isnt worth it.

 

So... ill tell you what i think about them when i get them. Thanks to all. 

 

Btw, If they aint awesome, its ok, at least i didnt break the bank

Ah! Well... You could have done a lot worse! 

[rice guru]

7 hours ago, kokakolia said:

Ah! Well... You could have done a lot worse! 

like a superlux

[Sansa]

ok, since i really apreciated the feedback and advice from you all, i wanted to maybe close this post with my impressions on the SHP9500. It can be an answer to any of you for your advice, or maybe it could be a discussion starter with me, or even better, it could help someone out too.

 

After around a month with them, i can confirm they are pretty good. Again, im no expert, just starting in this, so i wont say something stupid like they are the best or anything, but they are pretty good, and hands down waaay better than i imagined them to be.

 

Ill elaborate why: I can hear a lot of stuff i never heard before, in songs i know from start to finish!. Now im constantly searching for songs i knew all over again, and im impressed about how much one misses when you dont have a decent pair of headphones. Of course, its a subtle thing... if you dont care much about music, anything will do fine. But if (for example) you enjoy when you notice a little sound in a song that you missed before, you are gonna love having these headphones. To put it short... just try them, these wont break the bank.

 

On other parameters... they seem pretty durable (already dropped and stepped on them... and they are totally fine), and really really confy, altough i would like them to be more tight. I have a small head (i guess), and using them in the shortest postition, they fit alright. But a smaller head may have some problems i guess. They are pretty breathable. I dont seem to have any disconfort from them even after a couple of hours. Maybe the fact they are so loose contributes to a more confortable fit overall.

 

So... to sum up... "cheap" (i would say "reasonable priced") hi fi headphones. I guess they are an excelent starting point. Im really satisfied and happy with them. Oh and you dont seem to need any amp or anything to use them at full specs. Loudness is good... oh, and i dont really know if this is exactly what people call it "imageing", but you can clearly identify the instruments and sounds of a song like... coming from specific places, spacially speaking (pardon my english...). That was a really notorious thing to me too, its was like "wow... this is new to me". Before i was like "duh, of course you can identify instruments in any headphones (???) O_o) but now i notice its not the same... i dont know how to put it but its like you are in the middle of the band playing. Every instrument comes from a specific place and distance, and with the shp9500 is like you can really identify everyone of them and point to the source. With my other headphones they are all like mixed up.

 

So again... thanks everyone, and maybe sooner than later ill be asking about a better pair