[Urgent] Pleaassee Help Me Choose CPU, PSU, RAM, MoBo?

[_alphabit_]

Hello! TL;DR: I need help choosing a CAD-friendly (Creo, Keyshot, Solidworks) CPU, DDR4 RAM; a reliable but efficient PSU, and a WIFI 802.11 ac or 802.11 ax enabled 1151 Motherboard.  The sum of these components cannot exceed $1000 USD, but lower is better (it's all about value efficiency, babyyy). It is a time sensitive request because of work

 

If you don't have time to help (it's ok, I understand), I would appreciate if you could let me know which LTT videos have the SPECworkstation figures so I can search for this and use it in my search.  

 

Happy Holidays to all!  This year's Christmas came with a great present -- the bricking of my desktop computer! It now powers on, turns its fans on, then power cycles right before POST.  After one self-triggered power cycle, it will POST, only to power cycle immediately afterwards.  It never reaches the Windows loading screen.  I can't determine if it's a PSU or MoBo issue \(o.0)/ 
 

I believe the failure mode is one of these components: 

• GIGABYTE GA-Z97X-SLI LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (Link)

• Thermaltake TR2 700W (Link)

 

Sooooo in lieu of figuring it out since I have to work on Monday -- I decided to upgrade my system.  I would really appreciate any feedback because my upgrade is on a time-sensitive timeline since it doubles as a work computer

 

Which brings me to my thoughts on what factors I'm considering in my decision:  I use Creo 5.0, Solidworks, Keyshot, Python, MATLAB, etc. I work in a heavily CAD and Programming environment. I do play quite a few video games (most intensive being BF5), but I figure that a computer that can handle my CAD will be able to handle my gaming.

• I have been going through all the LTT videos where they might show the SPECworkstation benchmark for Product Development, but I've gone through too many and I've only seen this metric once
• The only other "requirement" I'm looking for is for the Motherboard to have 802.11 ac WIFI onboard to avoid buying more dongles.  

Here's what I currently own and do not want to upgrade: 

 

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU Cooler	Cooler Master Hyper 212 LED 66.3 CFM Rifle Bearing CPU Cooler	Purchased For $0.00
Storage	Samsung 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive	Purchased For $0.00
Storage	Samsung 860 Evo 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive	Purchased For $0.00
Storage	Samsung 860 Evo 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive	$109.99 @ Adorama
Storage	Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	Purchased For $0.00
Video Card	EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB Black Video Card	Purchased For $0.00
Case	Thermaltake New Soprano Snow Edition ATX Mid Tower Case	Purchased For $0.00
Optical Drive	Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer	Purchased For $0.00
Operating System	Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit	$139.99 @ Other World Computing
Monitor	Dell U2415 24.1" 1920x1200 60 Hz Monitor	Purchased For $0.00
Monitor	Dell U2415 24.1" 1920x1200 60 Hz Monitor	Purchased For $0.00
Monitor	Dell U2415 24.1" 1920x1200 60 Hz Monitor	Purchased For $0.00
Monitor	Dell U2415 24.1" 1920x1200 60 Hz Monitor	Purchased For $0.00
Keyboard	Logitech CRAFT Wireless Standard Keyboard	Purchased For $0.00
Mouse	Redragon Mammoth Wired Laser Mouse	Purchased For $0.00
Speakers	Logitech S120 2.3 W 2.0 Channel Speakers	Purchased For $0.00
External Storage	Toshiba Canvio Basics 3.0 2 TB External Hard Drive	Purchased For $0.00
External Storage	Toshiba Canvio Basics 1 TB External Hard Drive	Purchased For $0.00
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$249.98
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-26 19:57 EST-0500

And since upgrading from 1150 to 1151, it means I'll have to get DDR4, and I'm ultimately looking for help in choosing: 

1. Power Supply
   1. I care about efficiency so that it doesn't drain electricity when it doesn't have to.  ≥Gold preferred
2. Motherboard, 1151, Intel, DDR4
   1. I was entertaining the idea of GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO WIFI LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel Z390 because of the onboard WiFi
3. CPU
   1. This is where Creo 5.0, Solidworks, Keyshot (CAD Modeling, Simulation, and Rendering) comes into play -- I can't decide what to go with!! 
4. DDR4 RAM
   1. I currently use 32 GB DDR3 using these: G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
   2. My software is RAM-starving all the time. To give you an idea, my coworker uses 128 GB DDR4.  I do not have to use this much, as my workload doesn't require it.

I hope to keep this under 1000 USD, but i'm willing to bend the rules if I have to for a more-than-marginal improvement.  

 

If you don't have time to help (it's ok, I understand), I would appreciate if you could let me know which LTT videos have the SPECworkstation figures so I can search for this and use it in my search.  

 

Please and thank you!!! 

 

P.S. I will soon be getting a new workstation laptop for work, so I might will post another thread like this.  Please let me know if I'm posting in the wrong forum!!

 

Thank you!

[Jumballi]

if he needs intel the only option at this time are the z390 mother boards and 9th gen i3/5/7/9

[Shahnewaz]

Any reason you're stuck on Intel platform?

[Fasauceome]

Your 3D modelling tasks may scale quite well with AMD instead, what kind of 3D work are you doing?

[LienusLateTips]

Any reason why you couldn't go AMD?. They're more efficient and higher performance than Intel nowadays.

 

 

The Z390 series would otherwise be your only option unless you can find a Z370 board on some clearance sale.

 

[SupaKomputa]

6 minutes ago, Shahnewaz said:

Any reason you're stuck on Intel platform?

stuck in the past.

[SupaKomputa]

Just get the Ryzen 3950x and don't look back.

Whatever optimization Intel had on those software won't compete with the monstrous 32 threads.

[_alphabit_]

Thank you for the replies @Fasauceome, @Shahnewaz, @Jumballi, @LienusLateTips, @SupaKomputa

Regarding workload: 

• I work in product development (consumer electronics actually), so I 3D Model in parametric environments (as opposed to NURBS based modeling).  I've worked on projects that are 100's of parts.
• It is 3D Modeling, followed by 3D Rendering, followed by 3D Physics Simulations which I do when not using the computer for gaming (overnight)

 

Regarding AMD vs Intel: 

• I am intrigued by the recent videos showcasing AMD's gap-closing improvements (did I mention I've watched way too much LTT today in hopes of finding a metric? lol)
• It comes down to the fear of the unknown for me -- everything I've done until now has been Intel
• I do not want to risk losing access to software and/or hardware peripherals (3D Mice, for example) <- Might be an unfounded fear
• I read about how most developers/programmers work with Intel in mind, so AMD often has to appropriate their products to work under this paradigm.  Because of this, I don't want to lose efficiency by means of choosing an up-and-coming platform such as AMD.  I say up-and-coming because given the recent history, it is clear to me that AMD may well catch up if not lead thereby biasing future development.  However, in the engineering world, things move slowwww. 
• Performance impact by means of bottlenecking in a system using Nvidia 2080 + AMD. 
• Which brings me to this last point -- my coworkers have advised immensely against me going onto AMD.  Not sure for their reasoning.  

Hope this brings color to the situation. 

[LienusLateTips]

1 minute ago, _alphabit_ said:

 

• I read about how most developers/programmers work with Intel in mind, so AMD often has to appropriate their products to work under this paradigm.  Because of this, I don't want to lose efficiency by means of choosing an up-and-coming platform such as AMD.  I say up-and-coming because given the recent history, it is clear to me that AMD may well catch up if not lead thereby biasing future development.  However, in the engineering world, things move slowwww. 

They are not up-and-coming anymore. They've caught up to Intel in performance for multi threaded workloads and have exceeded them.

 

1 minute ago, _alphabit_ said:

 

• Performance impact by means of bottlenecking in a system using Nvidia 2080 + AMD. 

Considering AMD is the one with the newer PCIE gen (AMD's on PCIE4.0), this is unfounded.

2 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

 

• Which brings me to this last point -- my coworkers have advised immensely against me going onto AMD.  Not sure for their reasoning.  

Your concerns were accurate about 3 years ago. AMD was in the bin and not selling, on the verge of bankruptcy in terms of the CPU division.

[_alphabit_]

2 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

Just get the Ryzen 3950x and don't look back.

Whatever optimization Intel had on those software won't compete with the monstrous 32 threads.

I understand, and the number of threads is something that captivates me about AMD.  However, my 3D CAD (PTC Creo and Solidworks) software doesn't really take advantage of multithreading, and thus far, I've been informed by more senior engineers that single-thread performance is a leading metric in choosing a CPU.  I guess I could research more on this to determine if they are in fact right or outdated.  But that is what I've been told. 

 

[Jumballi]

1 minute ago, _alphabit_ said:

Thank you for the replies @Fasauceome, @Shahnewaz, @Jumballi, @LienusLateTips, @SupaKomputa

Regarding workload: 

• I work in product development (consumer electronics actually), so I 3D Model in parametric environments (as opposed to NURBS based modeling).  I've worked on projects that are 100's of parts.
• It is 3D Modeling, followed by 3D Rendering, followed by 3D Physics Simulations which I do when not using the computer for gaming (overnight)

 

Regarding AMD vs Intel: 

• I am intrigued by the recent videos showcasing AMD's gap-closing improvements (did I mention I've watched way too much LTT today in hopes of finding a metric? lol)
• It comes down to the fear of the unknown for me -- everything I've done until now has been Intel
• I do not want to risk losing access to software and/or hardware peripherals (3D Mice, for example) <- Might be an unfounded fear
• I read about how most developers/programmers work with Intel in mind, so AMD often has to appropriate their products to work under this paradigm.  Because of this, I don't want to lose efficiency by means of choosing an up-and-coming platform such as AMD.  I say up-and-coming because given the recent history, it is clear to me that AMD may well catch up if not lead thereby biasing future development.  However, in the engineering world, things move slowwww. 
• Performance impact by means of bottlenecking in a system using Nvidia 2080 + AMD. 
• Which brings me to this last point -- my coworkers have advised immensely against me going onto AMD.  Not sure for their reasoning.  

Hope this brings color to the situation. 

just grab all those fears and
THROW THEM ALL IN THE TRASH
This isn't 2003 where we had ridiculous amounts of software issues between the two architectures. All your stuff that won't work on amd are the same ones that won't work on the latest intel cpu as well, you're going to have to do the work anyway.

[_alphabit_]

@Jumballi, @LienusLateTips, @SupaKomputa

Okay, in hopes of steering this thread away from Intel vs AMD (I have opinions, but not strong enough to guide my decision): 

 

If I were to go with an AMD system, what would be your suggestions for the 4 components I'm looking for?  I'm more than happy to take them into consideration.

Edit: I'm headed to dinner.  I will be back immediately afterwards.  As mentioned in original post -- this is a time sensitive thing for me, so I'll do what I can to help reach a decision! 

[LienusLateTips]

4 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

I understand, and the number of threads is something that captivates me about AMD.  However, my 3D CAD (PTC Creo and Solidworks) software doesn't really take advantage of multithreading, and thus far, I've been informed by more senior engineers that single-thread performance is a leading metric in choosing a CPU.  I guess I could research more on this to determine if they are in fact right or outdated.  But that is what I've been told. 

 

Creo seems pretty multithreaded from what I can tell online, but Solidworks isn't. Single thread performance, in this case, would be a leading metric. 

 

If you're just doing these things, you'd be best served by a 9700K or 9900KS, overclocked if you're willing/allowed. A Z390 board like the Aorus Pro you mentioned would suit it well.

[Jumballi]

1 minute ago, _alphabit_ said:

@Jumballi, @LienusLateTips, @SupaKomputa

Okay, in hopes of steering this thread away from Intel vs AMD (I have opinions, but not strong enough to guide my decision): 

 

If I were to go with an AMD system, what would be your suggestions for the 4 components I'm looking for?  I'm more than happy to take them into consideration.

 

the best cpu by amd is the r9-3950x which can outperform intel in single threaded performance. but that's $750 and way over your budget.
something like the r7-3700x (8cores/16threads) is a much more budget conscious choice at around $300, and it's only 2% slower than the i7-9700k(8cores/8threads) which is commonly found around $400.
going with amd also provides you the option of getting cheaper motherboards, my recommendation is getting a b450 motherboard for around $100.
ram would be 16/32/64gb at 3600mhz around $80, $150, and $250
as for gpu look at whatever is the most expensive by nvidia that your budget allows.

[Shahnewaz]

1 minute ago, _alphabit_ said:

Regarding workload: 

• I work in product development (consumer electronics actually), so I 3D Model in parametric environments (as opposed to NURBS based modeling).  I've worked on projects that are 100's of parts.
• It is 3D Modeling, followed by 3D Rendering, followed by 3D Physics Simulations which I do when not using the computer for gaming (overnight)

This is exactly what high-end Ryzen and Threadripper chips are meant for.

2 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

It comes down to the fear of the unknown for me -- everything I've done until now has been Intel

Yep. As someone else said, you're clearly stuck in the past.

2 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

I do not want to risk losing access to software and/or hardware peripherals (3D Mice, for example) <- Might be an unfounded fear

It is unfounded. There's no peripheral or software I've ever known that refuses to work in a "not-Intel" platform. Peripherals are peripherals. Software is software, unless your software specifically mentions Intel-specific optimizations. Whatever makes it run faster wins.

5 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

I read about how most developers/programmers work with Intel in mind, so AMD often has to appropriate their products to work under this paradigm.  Because of this, I don't want to lose efficiency by means of choosing an up-and-coming platform such as AMD.  I say up-and-coming because given the recent history, it is clear to me that AMD may well catch up if not lead thereby biasing future development.  However, in the engineering world, things move slowwww.

Developers and programmers don't have the time or luxury to stay current on brand new releases and platforms. Trust me, AMD has more than caught up. I'd love to give you professional outlet reviews regarding this but I will have to know exactly what kind of CPU you're looking for.

Things do move slowly in engineering but that doesn't mean you have to buy a computer to match. You buy what's the best for you in the market.

9 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

Performance impact by means of bottlenecking in a system using Nvidia 2080 + AMD. 

There is no inherent bottleneck of the platform solely being AMD. As everyone has said, AMD is unequivocally faster in productivity.

11 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

Which brings me to this last point -- my coworkers have advised immensely against me going onto AMD.  Not sure for their reasoning.

You should ask your co-workers for their reasoning. You don't want to waste your hard earned money.

9 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

I understand, and the number of threads is something that captivates me about AMD.  However, my 3D CAD (PTC Creo and Solidworks) software doesn't really take advantage of multithreading, and thus far, I've been informed by more senior engineers that single-thread performance is a leading metric in choosing a CPU.  I guess I could research more on this to determine if they are in fact right or outdated.  But that is what I've been told.

For now. In the future, when your software gets updated and multi-core support is implemented, the AMD offering will run in circles.
But for now, you'll hardly see a benefit going Intel because the single-thread advantage is almost nil. All they have left is clock-speed advantage.

7 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

If I were to go with an AMD system, what would be your suggestions for the 4 components I'm looking for?  I'm more than happy to take them into consideration.

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/n7YmL2

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor  ($493.84 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler  ($69.98 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($194.89 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory  ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G3 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($86.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $980.68
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-26 21:14 EST-0500

[SupaKomputa]

1 minute ago, _alphabit_ said:

@Jumballi, @LienusLateTips, @SupaKomputa

Okay, in hopes of steering this thread away from Intel vs AMD (I have opinions, but not strong enough to guide my decision): 

 

If I were to go with an AMD system, what would be your suggestions for the 4 components I'm looking for?  I'm more than happy to take them into consideration.

Read the hardware requirements for those softwares, if there's any mention about not using AMD, then i rest my case.

Yes this is not 2003, where CPU compatibility is still a thing.

From your line of work, i can see that you will benefit by having as many CPU cores, and the highest core count you can have came from AMD, right now.

AMD is not only gap closing, but eclipse Intel in all fronts.

 

Ok for the second one :

- PSU, a Corsair CXM bronze 600 or 750 watt will do.

- Motherboard, so many to choose, i recommend any X570 series.

- CPU Ryzen 3950x (16 cores / 32 threads)

- RAM 4x 16gb = 64gb 3200 mhz ddr 4

[LienusLateTips]

55 minutes ago, Shahnewaz said:

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G3 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($86.98 @ Newegg)

This is a pretty bad unit, fails protections testing.

 

1 hour ago, _alphabit_ said:

@Jumballi, @LienusLateTips, @SupaKomputa

Okay, in hopes of steering this thread away from Intel vs AMD (I have opinions, but not strong enough to guide my decision): 

 

If I were to go with an AMD system, what would be your suggestions for the 4 components I'm looking for?  I'm more than happy to take them into consideration.

Edit: I'm headed to dinner.  I will be back immediately afterwards.  As mentioned in original post -- this is a time sensitive thing for me, so I'll do what I can to help reach a decision! 

Here's both an Intel build:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i9-9900 3.1 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($449.99 @ Best Buy) 
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 50.5 CFM CPU Cooler  ($88.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 UD ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($92.99 @ Amazon) 
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($108.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic PRIME Ultra Platinum 650 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($109.99 @ Newegg) 
Wireless Network Adapter: Asus PCE-AX58BT PCIe x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ax Wi-Fi Adapter  ($69.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $920.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-26 22:16 EST-0500

-I'm expecting that you won't be able to overclock, as it's a work machine. If you can, I'd go for the 9900K instead. I'd also head for a higher end motherboard.

-The PSU is an 80+ Platinum 650W unit, one of the best in the market currently. Only single rail, though.

-A WiFi 6 adapter is included

 

and the AMD build:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor  ($493.84 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler  ($69.98 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($168.98 @ Newegg) 
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($108.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: Corsair TXM Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply  ($83.98 @ Newegg) 
Wireless Network Adapter: Asus PCE-AX58BT PCIe x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ax Wi-Fi Adapter  ($69.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $995.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-26 22:23 EST-0500

-The CPU cooler has been downgraded accordingly due to the lesser heat ouput of the 3900X

-The PSU has been slightly downgraded to an 80+ Gold unit to save a bit of money. Practically no real world difference.

-Much faster than the Intel rig when multi-threading is used.

 

 

Some additional notes:

-The AMD rig will likely perform much better long term and have an EXTREMELY minor difference today. The only advantage Intel has is a slight clock speed bump; the AMD system has it beat in IPC and core count

-32GB of DDR4-3200 is included in both; you'll need to enable that speed as XMP or DOCP (Intel/AMD, respectively) to get full performance out of it and the processor

-You could drop the WiFi 6/AX and save ~$30

 

[_alphabit_]

Before I continue, just a reminder that I truly appreciate all replies so far, thank you!!! 

Also, this is a personal desktop computer that I use when I work from home.  My workstation laptop (Budget ~$5.5k) is going to be my primary workstation. I will likely be asking about this sometime next week once I figure out this unexpected conundrum
 

1 hour ago, LienusLateTips said:

Creo seems pretty multithreaded from what I can tell online, but Solidworks isn't. Single thread performance, in this case, would be a leading metric. 

 

If you're just doing these things, you'd be best served by a 9700K or 9900KS, overclocked if you're willing/allowed. A Z390 board like the Aorus Pro you mentioned would suit it well.

Thanks @LienusLateTips your commentary made me look deeper into Creo's handling of multithreading.  It seems that some of their most laggy aspects, such as "Rebuild," which is a similar process across MCAD, is still largely single-threaded.  The silver lining is that the program I use the most - PTC Creo - is starting to work on how to implement multi-threading in other processes of the workflow.  I guess ultimately, if the CPU has better single-threading than my current i5-4690 (which I suspect any of the recommendations here that will be the case), I'll be headed in a good direction.  

Added to my research: 
> 9700K, 9900KS
> Z390 motherboards, Dive Deeper on Aorus Pro
 

1 hour ago, Jumballi said:

the best cpu by amd is the r9-3950x which can outperform intel in single threaded performance. but that's $750 and way over your budget.
something like the r7-3700x (8cores/16threads) is a much more budget conscious choice at around $300, and it's only 2% slower than the i7-9700k(8cores/8threads) which is commonly found around $400.
going with amd also provides you the option of getting cheaper motherboards, my recommendation is getting a b450 motherboard for around $100.
ram would be 16/32/64gb at 3600mhz around $80, $150, and $250
as for gpu look at whatever is the most expensive by nvidia that your budget allows.

Thank you @Jumballi , 

Added to my research:

> R7-3700X, i7-9700K
> B450 Motherboard
> 3600 MHz DDR4 Speed

Note: GPU will remain GTX 2080 Black
 

1 hour ago, Shahnewaz said:

For now. In the future, when your software gets updated and multi-core support is implemented, the AMD offering will run in circles.
But for now, you'll hardly see a benefit going Intel because the single-thread advantage is almost nil. All they have left is clock-speed advantage.

Thank you @Shahnewaz,

I have made note of your entire reply.  I quote the last comment because that's something I'm curious about -- Knowing that AMD is better adapted for future development in software, is there a current AMD CPU that will have comparable single-threaded performance such that it will service as my transitionary piece of hardware?  I know you said that the delta in single-thread performance is almost nil -- but knowing a % (or data in general) will always win me over lol.  I'll do some research on this front. 

Added to my research:
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/n7YmL2
>> And all parts therein

 

 

1 hour ago, SupaKomputa said:

Read the hardware requirements for those softwares, if there's any mention about not using AMD, then i rest my case.

Yes this is not 2003, where CPU compatibility is still a thing.

From your line of work, i can see that you will benefit by having as many CPU cores, and the highest core count you can have came from AMD, right now.

AMD is not only gap closing, but eclipse Intel in all fronts.

 

Ok for the second one :

- PSU, a Corsair CXM bronze 600 or 750 watt will do.

- Motherboard, so many to choose, i recommend any X570 series.

- CPU Ryzen 3950x (16 cores / 32 threads)

- RAM 4x 16gb = 64gb 3200 mhz ddr 4

Thank you @SupaKomputa,

 

I do agree that business development by AMD is on the trajectory for eclipsing in offerings, unless Intel pulls something out of their sleeve.  My software options, which can be encompassed under the umbrella of "MCAD," are predominantly single-threaded.  One of my programs though has a running log of improvements and explorations on how multithreading is being explored, so this is exciting.    I have added your list to my research list!

 

34 minutes ago, LienusLateTips said:

Some additional notes:

-The AMD rig will likely perform much better long term and have an EXTREMELY minor difference today. The only advantage Intel has is a slight clock speed bump; the AMD system has it beat in IPC and core count

-32GB of DDR4-3200 is included in both; you'll need to enable that speed as XMP or DOCP (Intel/AMD, respectively) to get full performance out of it and the processor

-You could drop the WiFi 6/AX and save ~$30

Thanks again @LienusLateTips,

I'll look more into the G3 thing.  Being more of a conservative consumer, I will likely steer away from G3 PSU if there's that risk.

I have also added the two links to my research.  I've made note of the commentary too!
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/wgFbp8
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XrqPf9


To all so far: You all are presenting some good offerings for AMD, so I am considering AMD seriously.  The big question I have right now given that I may go AMD -- is there an AMD CPU of which its single-threading performance is comparable to that of an Intel CPU, such that it would "future proof" me per se, for when multi-threading features on MCAD becomes typical? I.e. have my cake and eat it too

 

[LienusLateTips]

5 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

To all so far: You all are presenting some good offerings for AMD, so I am considering AMD seriously.  The big question I have right now given that I may go AMD -- is there an AMD CPU of which its single-threading performance is comparable to that of an Intel CPU, such that it would "future proof" me per se, for when multi-threading features on MCAD becomes typical? I.e. have my cake and eat it too

 

The Zen 2 (Ryzen 5/7/9 3xxx) CPUs all have similar IPC to Intel. What they lack is clockspeed. However, they aren't that far behind, such as the Ryzen 9 3900X (12C/24T) at 3.80GHz base/4.60GHz boost, vs the i9 9900K (8c/16t), at the same price, with 3.60GHz base/5.00GHz boost. In the real world, they're close, too. Here's the Cinebench/Blender single-thread test:

 

You can see with a lot of the older AMD parts, it's down there. That's probably why they advised against it.

[Shahnewaz]

4 minutes ago, _alphabit_ said:

Thank you @Shahnewaz,

I have made note of your entire reply.  I quote the last comment because that's something I'm curious about -- Knowing that AMD is better adapted for future development in software, is there a current AMD CPU that will have comparable single-threaded performance such that it will service as my transitionary piece of hardware?  I know you said that the delta in single-thread performance is almost nil -- but knowing a % (or data in general) will always win me over lol.  I'll do some research on this front. 

Added to my research:
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/n7YmL2
>> And all parts therein

AMD is very keen to tell you how far they have caught up.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14525/amd-zen-2-microarchitecture-analysis-ryzen-3000-and-epyc-rome/2

 

As for independent "IPC" testing:

 

Do note someone reported some issues with the PSU I mentioned. You can use that, or Corsair's RM equivalent or Seasonic Focus GX. Just go by the tier list.

I personally use a TX550M, and that has been a very reliable PSU.

 

[LienusLateTips]

 see

9 minutes ago, Shahnewaz said:

Do note someone reported some issues with the PSU I mentioned. You can use that, or Corsair's RM equivalent or Seasonic Focus GX. Just go by the tier list.

I personally use a TX550M, and that has been a very reliable PSU.

 

Under US pricing, the RM650x is probably the only one to make sense, along with the TX650M and Kratos 650W.

 

(I used to write the tier list )

[SupaKomputa]

5 hours ago, _alphabit_ said:

To all so far: You all are presenting some good offerings for AMD, so I am considering AMD seriously.  The big question I have right now given that I may go AMD -- is there an AMD CPU of which its single-threading performance is comparable to that of an Intel CPU, such that it would "future proof" me per se, for when multi-threading features on MCAD becomes typical? I.e. have my cake and eat it too

Now the single threaded performance of the 3rd gen AMD is comparable to intel. You can see above benchmark, yes intel still leading in that part but really not by much (less than 1%) you won't even feel the difference. And for you coming from a 1150 system, an upgrade to ANY of todays cpu will multiply your performance. 

 

You can research this topic on why you should use AMD right now:

- Price, obviously AMD is cheaper.

- 7nm. AMD cpu will run relatively cooler, can reach boost speed in all clock longer. Intel is lazily still on 14nm for too long.

- IPC, computing power per clock speed is ahead of intel, Ryzen only need 4.3 ghz to match Intel's 5ghz.

- Socket, AMD is using the same socket for 3 generations, and might use it again in future gen. Intel will announce a new socket for 2020 cpu, which mean the cpu you buy right now will no longer upgradeable.

- Upgradability, say if you buy a Ryzen 3800x right now, a 8 core 16 thread CPU, later on you need more power, without changing the motherboard you still have 2 other options, the 12 core 3900x and the 16 core 3950x. If you buy and 8 core intel cpu which is 9900k, it's dead end for you.

- PCIE 4.0, only AMD has this.

- Spectre and Meltdown. The icing on the cake. https://windowsreport.com/amd-intel-security-vulnerabilities/

 

Funny, 3 years ago if you ask this kind of question, you'll see 75% support for Intel. There's a reason why you see such massive support for AMD, it's undeniably good. I'm sure this forum member view things objectively, even Linus change its 13 years continuous Intel support to AMD for his personal rig.

 

[_alphabit_]

Hi All, thank you all for your feedback, and especially to those who are keeping on with this thread.  I really, really appreciate it.

I spent quite a bit of time last night looking through all the research points, and I'm narrowing it down to this: 
 

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 7 3800X 3.9 GHz 8-Core Processor	$338.99 @ Amazon
Motherboard	Gigabyte X570 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard	$229.99 @ Amazon
Memory	G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory	$159.99 @ Newegg
Power Supply	Corsair RMx (2018) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	$129.99 @ Best Buy
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$858.96
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-27 12:21 EST-0500

Notes to be aware of:  I'm self-imposing a 1000 dollar cap on this because it's my own money, not the company's  Otherwise I'd buy top of the line! Reliability and Cost-Sensitivity are factors guiding my decision.
 

The major questions here are: 

1. Am I shooting myself in the foot by saving some money (~57.56%) and going with a 3800X rather than a 3900X at this time?  I don't know much about how much AMD CPUs depreciate over time.
2. I chose DDR4-3600 Memory because a few videos and articles emphasized Ryzen's dependency on RAM speed.  Is this overkill?  Not enough? -- do I really need to look at 3666 or 3733 MHz? 
3. I went with Corsair 850W 80+ Gold because of Corsair's 10 YR Warranty and because 850W affords me some overhead should I add other parts down the line ( M.2 or upgrade the 3800X at a later point). Thoughts?  Do I really need dual lanes?
4. I went with X570 AORUS PRO WIFI because: 1) It was the cheapest of the AORUS Line that included WIFI and 2 M.2 Slots.  I am currently debating AORUS PRO ULTRA because of it has one additional M.2 Slot, but I don't know if this merits a cost increase of ~17.39%. Thoughts? 
5. Should I downgrade any of these selections in order to choose the 3900X? i.e. get the 3200 MHz DDR4, go with a 650W Power Supply, etc to make up for the added cost of the 3900X? 

Now for replies:

13 hours ago, LienusLateTips said:

The Zen 2 (Ryzen 5/7/9 3xxx) CPUs all have similar IPC to Intel. What they lack is clockspeed. However, they aren't that far behind, such as the Ryzen 9 3900X (12C/24T) at 3.80GHz base/4.60GHz boost, vs the i9 9900K (8c/16t), at the same price, with 3.60GHz base/5.00GHz boost. In the real world, they're close, too. Here's the Cinebench/Blender single-thread test:

@LienusLateTips
I definitely care more about real-world performance; despite being in the consumer electronics field, I do not obsess over marginal gains/differences.  It's because of this that I was leading towards the 3800X instead of the 3900X .  The cost is significant but there are diminishing returns from what I saw.  I also fear that paying 500+ USD for the 3900X will hurt my wallet in a year or two if the price goes down.  
 

13 hours ago, LienusLateTips said:

Under US pricing, the RM650x is probably the only one to make sense, along with the TX650M and Kratos 650W.

 

(I used to write the tier list )

Oh my y'all must really love this stuff to create that list!!  It was super useful and contained a lot of details, I really appreciate it.  I am leaning towards the RMx850 because of its overhead.  I am considering the 80+ Platinum if it affords me some power bill cost.  It's getting rough here in the SF Bay Area. 

 

7 hours ago, SupaKomputa said:

- Upgradability, say if you buy a Ryzen 3800x right now, a 8 core 16 thread CPU, later on you need more power, without changing the motherboard you still have 2 other options, the 12 core 3900x and the 16 core 3950x. If you buy and 8 core intel cpu which is 9900k, it's dead end for you.

Thanks @SupaKomputa, a lot of your points were conclusions I reached last night by doing quite a bit of research; except for this quoted point.  Knowing that I may be able to upgrade the CPU without having this trickle-down effect on all the other parts is extremely enticing.  I would like to know what you think about the fact that I'm considering 3800X over the 3900X to save ~200 USD? Or any of the other questions noted above for that matter.

Thanks again all!! 

 

[Triboal]

@_alphabit_ 

 

If you're going for a Ryzen 7 then go for a 3700X, not  3800X. Save some money as the 3800X is just a slightly higher binned 3700X. I feel like the decision for you is either a 3700X or a 3900X.

 

For you I think it would actually make sense shooting for a 3900X as your work will get a lot of use out of this CPU and you'll notice the benefits. You can also just upgrade later from a 3700X to a 3900X or even a 3950X if you end up saving more money.

 

3600MHz RAM is the key speed, any higher (than 3733MHz) hampers performance as the infinity fabric ratio moves from 1:1 to 2:1 so your CPU performance halves.

 

850W: it's overkill really, only if you know you're going to go SLI or going to upgrade GPU to a more power-hungry model. Otherwise what everyone else suggested should be fine. You're more than welcome to go for 850W for peace of mind and if you're not paying too much for the extra power though.

 

X570: you're looking for a good budget option so I would recommend the ASUS TUF WiFi or the ASUS Prime Pro - both have wifi, have good power delivery and are cheaper (not sure about the Prime Pro model vs Aorus Pro). Up to you if you want/need the extra M.2.

 

You can drop to 3200MHz RAM with minor impact on performance if it means going to a 3900X - in my opinion it's worth it. Up to you though.

[_alphabit_]

1 hour ago, GeLi said:

If you're going for a Ryzen 7 then go for a 3700X, not  3800X. Save some money as the 3800X is just a slightly higher binned 3700X. I feel like the decision for you is either a 3700X or a 3900X.

Hey @GeLi, thank you for your reply!

 

• I was thinking 3800X as a "compromise" between 3700X and 3900X.  But if it were between just the 3700X/3900X, I will most likely move to 3900X.  
• Copy on the 3600 MHz being the sweet spot.  A question I've run into in my search is if I should be looking for a specific timing ? 
  • My original option (Link) is 160 USD, but I don't need the RGB.  But the timing is 16-19-19-39
  • The alternatives I'm considering (Link1 @ 125 USD, Link2 @ 125 USD) are both 19-20-20-40 
  • Which is more suitable for the 3900X?  Will it be detrimental if I choose the non-optimal one?
• I kept with my GTX 760 for about 4 years, telling myself that I would SLI those before I would upgrade the GPU  that never happened and I got a 2080.  I think I'll probably just continue using the 2080 until its death or until a more reasonable option exists in the future.  So I guess I don't really need the 850W 80 PLUS Gold
  • I'll dive into the lower wattage rating PSU's that are rated Gold or Higher.
  • I do have many storage units (3 SSD + 1 HDD), and I see that the 850W PSU's have more connectors for SATA.
• In the same way that I have a 500 GB SSD for boot-up and other SSDs for storage, I anticipate I will use an M.2 for boot up in the future and move this current boot up SSD to a storage-oriented SSD.  I guess the other 2 M.2 is for peace of mind, not really needs, so I can cross those off.  

 

Based on your feedback, I'm thinking of choosing an alternate MoBo and PSU -- so long as the PSU I choose doesn't limit the number of SSD/HDD's and Disc-Drive I use.  This will free up some dollars for the 3900X. Thank you!