Upgrade Now or Wait?

[Coopermar]

I have been researching for the last 2 months or so and still cannot decide whether to upgrade my pc now or wait. My PC right now is listed:

 

CPU: i5 4460
GPU: GTX 1060 6 GB
RAM: 12 GB (No idea the speed)
Stock Cooler
Power Supply is overkill, something like 700W

 

I am mostly asking about my CPU. My CPU is bottlenecking my GPU pretty hard. For example, when running Modern Warfare, I am at 100% CPU and only 75% GPU. I am probably going to upgrade my GPU next Christmas.
I was primarily looking at the 9700k, 9900k, and the 3800x. I have around 500-600 to spend. 

Would you say to upgrade now? Or wait? Is cyber Monday going to have anything?

 

(Sorry for leaving out some specifics, not home and won’t be for another day or two)

[Joshcanread]

GET RYZEN PLS DON'T BUY CRAPTEL WHATEVER YOU DO!!! 3800x is pretty overkill you probably only need like a 3600

[Eastman51]

Since you only have $500-600, the CPUs you listed are likely out of your budget.

You won't just be buying a CPU, you'll need a new motherboard and RAM too.

I would suggest the Ryzen 5 3600 with a 3200Mhz kit of 2x8GB RAM and a B450 motherboard.

 

[Coopermar]

Just now, Eastman51 said:

Since you only have $500-600, the CPUs you listed are likely out of your budget.

You won't just be buying a CPU, you'll need a new motherboard and RAM too.

I would suggest the Ryzen 5 3600 with a 3200Mhz kit of 2x8GB RAM and a B450 motherboard.

 

Really? Even with the 9700k($300), a ~$150 motherboard, and a DRP4. That’s only like 500. I could upgrade the ram with that.

 

Do you think they’re going to release 10th gen soon? If so, I could get a 2060(super maybe) or a 2070 and wait for the cpu. I’ll just bottleneck harder though.

[Eastman51]

1 minute ago, Coopermar said:

Really? Even with the 9700k($300), a ~$150 motherboard, and a DRP4. That’s only like 500. I could upgrade the ram with that.

 

Do you think they’re going to release 10th gen soon? If so, I could get a 2060(super maybe) or a 2070 and wait for the cpu. I’ll just bottleneck harder though.

There's no definitive answer on when 10th gen will release. It could be next month, it could be next year. 

 

From what I can find, there's no way you can fit a 9700k, a decent motherboard, a DRP4, and good RAM under $600. 

I see no reason not to go with a 3600, decent motherboard, a not overkill cooler, and high quality RAM for barely over $400. 

 

The 3600 isn't that much slower than the 9700k in games, which the gap can be easily made up with some light overclocking. And you may not even have to touch the CPU clocks to do so, as 3rd gen Ryzen can achieve some interesting gains solely with RAM overclocks. You don't really need a DRP4 unless you are doing some heavy overclocking, there are cheaper alternatives that will net you lower temps at stock clocks and allow you to do some light OC without issues. 

 

Personally, this is a great upgrade right here, and there's no reason to spend $150 more on a 9700k that won't net you that much more fps. 

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor	$185.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler	Noctua NH-U12S 55 CFM CPU Cooler	$59.95 @ Amazon
Motherboard	Asus ROG STRIX B450-F GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard	$104.99 @ Amazon
Memory	G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	$59.99 @ Newegg
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$410.92
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-30 01:00 EST-0500

and that $190 you save can be automatically put towards a GPU upgrade.

[xXfunn105Xx]

I agree with the other posts about the Ryzen 3600. It is near impossible to beat it for that price.

[Coopermar]

1 minute ago, Eastman51 said:

There's no definitive answer on when 10th gen will release. It could be next month, it could be next year. 

 

From what I can find, there's no way you can fit a 9700k, a decent motherboard, a DRP4, and good RAM under $600. 

I see no reason not to go with a 3600, decent motherboard, a not overkill cooler, and high quality RAM for barely over $400. 

 

The 3600 isn't that much slower than the 9700k in games, which the gap can be easily made up with some light overclocking. And you may not even have to touch the CPU clocks to do so, as 3rd gen Ryzen can achieve some interesting gains solely with RAM overclocks. You don't really need a DRP4 unless you are doing some heavy overclocking, there are cheaper alternatives that will net you lower temps at stock clocks and allow you to do some light OC without issues. 

 

Personally, this is a great upgrade right here, and there's no reason to spend $150 more on a 9700k that won't net you that much more fps. 

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor	$185.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler	Noctua NH-U12S 55 CFM CPU Cooler	$59.95 @ Amazon
Motherboard	Asus ROG STRIX B450-F GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard	$104.99 @ Amazon
Memory	G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	$59.99 @ Newegg
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$410.92
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-30 01:00 EST-0500

and that $190 you save can be automatically put towards a GPU upgrade.

It just kind of hurts my heart not upgrading from 4 core to 8. I want it to feel like a world of a difference, if you know what I mean. The 4460 is so slow, I wanted to go for a high end cpu so I won’t have to experience that anymore. Is the 3600 really close to the 9700k and 3800x?

[dizmo]

If you want to wait, you can, but you'll be waiting forever as there's always something better on the horizon. I'd just buy now, as the sales are going to be best right now in terms of components. You likely won't see that much of an increase with 10th gen over 9th gen.

 

You say you want to upgrade, but you didn't give us any supporting information, like what you do with your computer, etc.

 

29 minutes ago, Joshcanread said:

GET RYZEN PLS DON'T BUY CRAPTEL WHATEVER YOU DO!!! 3800x is pretty overkill you probably only need like a 3600

Intel still provides the best framerates if you want to go top tier...so they're not entirely pointless. That isn't this build, but saying it's Craptel is juvenile and, at worst in certain situations, disingenuous.

26 minutes ago, Eastman51 said:

Since you only have $500-600, the CPUs you listed are likely out of your budget.

You won't just be buying a CPU, you'll need a new motherboard and RAM too.

I would suggest the Ryzen 5 3600 with a 3200Mhz kit of 2x8GB RAM and a B450 motherboard.

Though best to keep in mind not all B450 motherboards have an updated BIOS.

11 minutes ago, Eastman51 said:

There's no definitive answer on when 10th gen will release. It could be next month, it could be next year. 

 

From what I can find, there's no way you can fit a 9700k, a decent motherboard, a DRP4, and good RAM under $600. 

I see no reason not to go with a 3600, decent motherboard, a not overkill cooler, and high quality RAM for barely over $400. 

 

The 3600 isn't that much slower than the 9700k in games, which the gap can be easily made up with some light overclocking. And you may not even have to touch the CPU clocks to do so, as 3rd gen Ryzen can achieve some interesting gains solely with RAM overclocks. You don't really need a DRP4 unless you are doing some heavy overclocking, there are cheaper alternatives that will net you lower temps at stock clocks and allow you to do some light OC without issues. 

-snip-

While I generally agree with your build and recommendations, it's entirely possible to get the 9700k build for less than $600. The CPU is only $299.

5 minutes ago, Coopermar said:

It just kind of hurts my heart not upgrading from 4 core to 8. I want it to feel like a world of a difference, if you know what I mean. The 4460 is so slow, I wanted to go for a high end cpu so I won’t have to experience that anymore. Is the 3600 really close to the 9700k and 3800x?

You won't really benefit that much from 8 cores (in terms of Ryzen) if you're just gaming.

[Coopermar]

2 minutes ago, dizmo said:

If you want to wait, you can, but you'll be waiting forever as there's always something better on the horizon. I'd just buy now, as the sales are going to be best right now in terms of components. You likely won't see that much of an increase with 10th gen over 9th gen.

 

You say you want to upgrade, but you didn't give us any supporting information, like what you do with your computer, etc.

 

Intel still provides the best framerates if you want to go top tier...so they're not entirely pointless. That isn't this build, but saying it's Craptel is juvenile and, at worst in certain situations, disingenuous.

Though best to keep in mind not all B450 motherboards have an updated BIOS.

While I generally agree with your build and recommendations, it's entirely possible to get the 9700k build for less than $600. The CPU is only $299.

You won't really benefit that much from 8 cores (in terms of Ryzen) if you're just gaming.

Sorry I did not provide information about how I’m planning on using the computer. I am planning on using it for gaming. No video editing, streaming, or data manipulation. I would like to be able to use other programs while I game, though. Right now, chrome doesn’t function and discord often lags while I am I game because of the 100% cpu usage. Everyone has been telling me Ryzen>Intel right now but it seems like Intel still has an advantage in gaming. What do you think it my best option?

[Eastman51]

9 minutes ago, Coopermar said:

It just kind of hurts my heart not upgrading from 4 core to 8. I want it to feel like a world of a difference, if you know what I mean. The 4460 is so slow, I wanted to go for a high end cpu so I won’t have to experience that anymore. Is the 3600 really close to the 9700k and 3800x?

If you think going from an ancient 4 core to a modern 6 core won't feel like a world of a difference, you're kidding yourself. Even modern 4 core CPUs are leagues better than older ones; and that's on top of the fact that games won't even utilize more than 3-4 cores at best.

 

And yes, the 3600 is quite close the the 9700k. Stock, the 9700k might get 10-15fps more than the 3600; which for $150 more is definitely not worth it by any means. And then you have to consider that Intel motherboards are also going to be $50 more for similar features to a B450 board. With the better RAM you get from saving money, and with a decent cooler, you can easily overclock that 3600 to match the 9700k at stock clocks (remember, that's the same performance as a $300 CPU for ~$50 less). 

3 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Though best to keep in mind not all B450 motherboards have an updated BIOS.

While I generally agree with your build and recommendations, it's entirely possible to get the 9700k build for less than $600. The CPU is only $299.

B450 boards are likely to already be shipping with updated BIOS. 3rd gen has been out for quite some time now, most old stock is going to be about dried up.

It might be possible to do it under $600 where you guys live or with some special coupons/promotions, but I cannot configure such a system for under $600 in my area and with my findings.

[dizmo]

9 minutes ago, Coopermar said:

Sorry I did not provide information about how I’m planning on using the computer. I am planning on using it for gaming. No video editing, streaming, or data manipulation. I would like to be able to use other programs while I game, though. Right now, chrome doesn’t function and discord often lags while I am I game because of the 100% cpu usage. Everyone has been telling me Ryzen>Intel right now but it seems like Intel still has an advantage in gaming. What do you think it my best option?

Since you're only gaming, if you don't mind spending the extra money, the 9700k will give you overall better results, significantly so if you're just playing at 1080p.

8 minutes ago, Eastman51 said:

B450 boards are likely to already be shipping with updated BIOS. 3rd gen has been out for quite some time now, most old stock is going to be about dried up.

It might be possible to do it under $600 where you guys live or with some special coupons/promotions, but I cannot configure such a system for under $600 in my area and with my findings.

Likely doesn't mean guaranteed though, so it's something to keep in mind.

Why would what you have to pay have any relevance to the OP?

[Coopermar]

9 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Since you're only gaming, if you don't mind spending the extra money, the 9700k will give you overall better results, significantly so if you're just playing at 1080p.

Likely doesn't mean guaranteed though, so it's something to keep in mind.

Why would what you have to pay have any relevance to the OP?

Okay so assuming I go with the 9700k, what motherboard/cooler would you suggest. I would like to overclock it because it seems wasteful not to. I’ve never water cooled so keep that in mind.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, Coopermar said:

I have been researching for the last 2 months or so and still cannot decide whether to upgrade my pc now or wait. My PC right now is listed:

 

CPU: i5 4460
GPU: GTX 1060 6 GB
RAM: 12 GB (No idea the speed)
Stock Cooler
Power Supply is overkill, something like 700W

 

I am mostly asking about my CPU. My CPU is bottlenecking my GPU pretty hard. For example, when running Modern Warfare, I am at 100% CPU and only 75% GPU. I am probably going to upgrade my GPU next Christmas.
I was primarily looking at the 9700k, 9900k, and the 3800x. I have around 500-600 to spend. 

Would you say to upgrade now? Or wait? Is cyber Monday going to have anything?

 

(Sorry for leaving out some specifics, not home and won’t be for another day or two)

It seems to be all about trying to predict where software writing is going to go.  New things are constantly being released, and the hard physics limit of ~5ghz for silicon on insulator was hit many years ago.  What seems to be driving stuff now is programmer sloppiness and the concept of thread programming. Thread programming only happened at all because Microsoft for a long time refused to release a true multitasking operating system at all, and when it finally did it was so incredibly badly done it wasn’t worth using.  So programmers invented thread programming mostly as a way of getting around Microsoft stupidity.  It doesn’t work as well as multitasking and has numerous complications and limitations.  It’s basically all anyone has learned to do these days though and more or less all games are written as thread programming.  Ironically since the creation of thread programming windows has gotten good enough at multitasking that a multitask program has less overhead than a threaded program.  It’s too late though.  There is almost no multitasking any more.

A program that is multithreaded (as opposed to multitasked) can only use as many cores (or virtual cores) as it has threads. Each thread is effectively its own operating system.  The more threads a program has the harder it is to write.  By a lot. One of the more famous problems is “thread crashing” but it’s not the only one. For a long time games were single thread.  That number is increasing slowly though.  The problem for low core count machines occurs when the number of threads is higher than the number of “cores”.  When that happens overhead goes through the roof and performance slows.  
 

you’ve got a 4460 which is 4/4. 4 cores with no hyperthreading. Hyperthreading turns a core into two virtual cores effectively making 2 spaces that can each hold a thread.  An Intel i7 processor is the same as an i5 processor, but with hyperthreading turned on so it’s either 4 cores or 8 more or less half speed virtual cores.

The number of threads in a game program is getting higher.  4 core(or thread) machines are starting to have problems and it is expected that 8 thread (core) machines soon will.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Bombastinator
More Mental typos

[Bombastinator]

17 minutes ago, Coopermar said:

Okay so assuming I go with the 9700k, what motherboard/cooler would you suggest. I would like to overclock it because it seems wasteful not to. I’ve never water cooled so keep that in mind.

9700k is 8/8 iirc.  You could buy a used 4770k/4790k cpu, drop it in your current machine, overclock it to near 5ghz, and get this same 8 threads. They would be less than half the speed of the current 9700k but there would be 8 of them.

[dizmo]

48 minutes ago, Coopermar said:

Okay so assuming I go with the 9700k, what motherboard/cooler would you suggest. I would like to overclock it because it seems wasteful not to. I’ve never water cooled so keep that in mind.

I'd go with this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($299.99 @ Best Buy)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler  ($63.75 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $523.73

 

If you don't care too much about what it looks like, the Z390 UD is also a good motherboard and only $90.

 

24 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

9700k is 8/8 iirc.  You could buy a used 4770k/4790k cpu, drop it in your current machine, overclock it to near 5ghz, and get this same 8 threads. They would be less than half the speed of the current 9700k but there would be 8 of them.

It's important to remember clock speed isn't everything; IPC has come a ways since 4th gen chips.

He also has a 4460, so it's unlikely his motherboard can handle overclocking.

Cores =/= threads. 8 physical cores is better than 4 cores, 8 threads.

[Bombastinator]

15 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I'd go with this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($299.99 @ Best Buy)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler  ($63.75 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $523.73

 

If you don't care too much about what it looks like, the Z390 UD is also a good motherboard and only $90.

 

It's important to remember clock speed isn't everything; IPC has come a ways since 4th gen chips.

He also has a 4460, so it's unlikely his motherboard can handle overclocking.

Cores =/= threads. 8 physical cores is better than 4 cores, 8 threads.

Very true. If his current motherboard cannot handle overclocking there’s no point in buying a k chip. A 4770 then.  3.2(?) ghz cut in less than half.  Quite slow.

 

as to cores != threads, that is true, sort of.  A core or virtual core can hold only one thread and run it without impedance by having to effectively wait in line with the other threads running on that core, making overhead.  Overhead thread programs tend to be very bad at dealing with making for more overhead.  It builds up quite quickly.  This is one of this “other problems” of thread programming I was talking about.  All virtual cores do is reduce overhead, and only for threaded programs.  That’s basically all of them now though.

[Coopermar]

6 hours ago, dizmo said:

I'd go with this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($299.99 @ Best Buy)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler  ($63.75 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $523.73

 

If you don't care too much about what it looks like, the Z390 UD is also a good motherboard and only $90.

 

It's important to remember clock speed isn't everything; IPC has come a ways since 4th gen chips.

He also has a 4460, so it's unlikely his motherboard can handle overclocking.

Cores =/= threads. 8 physical cores is better than 4 cores, 8 threads.

 

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Very true. If his current motherboard cannot handle overclocking there’s no point in buying a k chip. A 4770 then.  3.2(?) ghz cut in less than half.  Quite slow.

 

as to cores != threads, that is true, sort of.  A core or virtual core can hold only one thread and run it without impedance by having to effectively wait in line with the other threads running on that core, making overhead.  Overhead thread programs tend to be very bad at dealing with making for more overhead.  It builds up quite quickly.  This is one of this “other problems” of thread programming I was talking about.  All virtual cores do is reduce overhead, and only for threaded programs.  That’s basically all of them now though.

Yea my motherboard is a stock one that came with the computer. It’s a horrible Inspiron motherboard, the 4460 is the best processor that I can put on it. That’s why I HAVE to upgrade my motherboard as well. 

[Coopermar]

6 hours ago, dizmo said:

I'd go with this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($299.99 @ Best Buy)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler  ($63.75 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $523.73

 

If you don't care too much about what it looks like, the Z390 UD is also a good motherboard and only $90.

 

It's important to remember clock speed isn't everything; IPC has come a ways since 4th gen chips.

He also has a 4460, so it's unlikely his motherboard can handle overclocking.

Cores =/= threads. 8 physical cores is better than 4 cores, 8 threads.

 

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Very true. If his current motherboard cannot handle overclocking there’s no point in buying a k chip. A 4770 then.  3.2(?) ghz cut in less than half.  Quite slow.

 

as to cores != threads, that is true, sort of.  A core or virtual core can hold only one thread and run it without impedance by having to effectively wait in line with the other threads running on that core, making overhead.  Overhead thread programs tend to be very bad at dealing with making for more overhead.  It builds up quite quickly.  This is one of this “other problems” of thread programming I was talking about.  All virtual cores do is reduce overhead, and only for threaded programs.  That’s basically all of them now though.

I’ve heard others say that the 9700k isn’t worth it because of its lack of hyperthreading and smt. What is your view on that and am I really missing out going with the 9700k?

[The Torrent]

8 hours ago, Coopermar said:

I have been researching for the last 2 months or so and still cannot decide whether to upgrade my pc now or wait. My PC right now is listed:

 

CPU: i5 4460
GPU: GTX 1060 6 GB
RAM: 12 GB (No idea the speed)
Stock Cooler
Power Supply is overkill, something like 700W

 

I am mostly asking about my CPU. My CPU is bottlenecking my GPU pretty hard. For example, when running Modern Warfare, I am at 100% CPU and only 75% GPU. I am probably going to upgrade my GPU next Christmas.
I was primarily looking at the 9700k, 9900k, and the 3800x. I have around 500-600 to spend. 

Would you say to upgrade now? Or wait? Is cyber Monday going to have anything?

 

(Sorry for leaving out some specifics, not home and won’t be for another day or two)

i think a 3800x with a mobo alone is gonna take up your whole budget then you need new ram etc. and im guessing a new gpu.

What brand and name power supply? 

Go ryzen at the moment tho.

 

Upgrade when you have the money and feel you need to. Never wait as i learned, tech is always advancing.

[Bombastinator]

57 minutes ago, Coopermar said:

 

I’ve heard others say that the 9700k isn’t worth it because of its lack of hyperthreading and smt. What is your view on that and am I really missing out going with the 9700k?

Right now at this moment nothing.  The 9700k has 8 very fast cores. As long as programs need only 8 spaces in which to run you will be fine.  I’m just suspicious that this will not remain true for very long.  As an example: you say your 4460 is bottlenecking your 1060.  I have a 4770k which is basically the same chip but with hyper threading and a 970 which is about the same speed.  My 970 is bottlenecking it.  Close to the same chip but with virtual cores, complete swap as to what is bottlenecking what. A 9900k is basically the same chip as a 9700k. The difference is hyper threading.  The AMD stuff has lower quality cores.  They’re flat out slower.  But there are more of them and they have multitreading enabled.

[dizmo]

2 hours ago, Coopermar said:

 

I’ve heard others say that the 9700k isn’t worth it because of its lack of hyperthreading and smt. What is your view on that and am I really missing out going with the 9700k?

Hyperthreading is SMT.

People that say that are ignoring the fact that you're just gaming, and realistically it won't matter. The benchmarks speak for themselves.