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New CPU for 4k?

eth_jones
By eth_jones
in CPUs, Motherboards, and Memory
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Hi guys,


I bought a 28" 4k monitor yesterday and I just love it. I have an 8gb RX580 and an i5-4690K. The problem is, my graphics card sounds like a helicopter when I try and play in 4k. I can play FIFA perfectly well in 4k, but when it comes to Shadow of the Tomb Raider, or Kingdom Come deliverance (both graphically heavy, I know), the framerate drops to about 20.

 

I was pretty sure that the GPU can run at 4k. If I have task manager open when playing a game the GPU is almost at 100% and the cpu is relative low. Does this mean the GPU isn't strong enough? Or does it just need a newer CPU to help it out? Is there any better way to monitor what's going on?

CPU: i5-4690K @ 3.5GHz || MoBo: Asus H81M-C || RAM: 16gb Kingston HyperX Blue || Cooler: Stock intel cooler || GPU: Palit GTX 1050 || PSU: Can't remember exactly but know it meets the needs of my components || Case: White Falcon Case || SSD: Kingston 120GB || Storage: WD Blue 1TB

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7 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

Does this mean the GPU isn't strong enough?

Yes, I thought that's obvious since RX 480 benchmarks are pretty much all in 1080p, early ones in 1440p but never 4K in terms of being useful for actual gameplay.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: HP EX920 1TB PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + Crucial MX500 1TB 2.5" SATA SSD, 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally, 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) left outside Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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13 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

I was pretty sure that the GPU can run at 4k.

Yes it can in low settings :) 

 

The 5700XT are the entry level for 4k and not really ultra settings but the Sapphire uses the TriXX Software emulate a 4k (3946x1944) that allows better performance and also AMD have texture sharpening which look really nice imo.

 

The 2070S is good enough, 2080S is the sweet spot and 2080ti is the killer but also pricey :P 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Yes, I thought that's obvious since RX 480 benchmarks are pretty much all in 1080p, early ones in 1440p but never 4K in terms of being useful for actual gameplay.

Ah right okay, I'm not really too clued up on all this to be honest so thanks for your help.

 

I am surprised as I just thought the more RAM the GPU has the better it will perform. My friend has a 1060 6gb I think and he plays 4k decently, so I thought my 580 8gb would too!

CPU: i5-4690K @ 3.5GHz || MoBo: Asus H81M-C || RAM: 16gb Kingston HyperX Blue || Cooler: Stock intel cooler || GPU: Palit GTX 1050 || PSU: Can't remember exactly but know it meets the needs of my components || Case: White Falcon Case || SSD: Kingston 120GB || Storage: WD Blue 1TB

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Just now, eth_jones said:

My friend has a 1060 6gb I think and he plays 4k decently

It is simply not true. In modern 2019 titles a 1060 6GB is insufficient to Max out the settings at FullHD, not saying 4K.

1060 6G / 580 8G are somewhat OK to run FullHD Ultra 60ish FPS /QHD High for now but it will not last long.

To play 4K decently you'd need an 2070S/5700XT and up.

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VRAM affects the quality of textures etc. you can load. Frame rate is affected by VRAM only when it gets maxed out. GPU speed is what actually determines the frame rate for the most part, and stuff like the amount of processing units, clock speed and architecture efficiency are what determines "GPU speed". In modern games there is pretty much no way that your FPS is limited by your CPU even with the most powerful GPU if you are playing on 4k simply because 4k requires a fuck ton of graphics processing power

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17 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

I am surprised as I just thought the more RAM the GPU has the better it will perform

There are even 4GB GT730 lol, those didnt work even at 1080p when they were produced. More VRAM helps running higher quality textures, but you're still limited by compute performance for so many pixels.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: HP EX920 1TB PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + Crucial MX500 1TB 2.5" SATA SSD, 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally, 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) left outside Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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An RX 580 is good for 4K gaming in certain titles, but unable to keep up in others.

Source: I got an RX 580 4GB and game at 4K.

 

For example, platformers, CS:GO, certain racing games (Dirt 3, Dirt Rally, Grid 2) play very well at 4K, but certain others games (Skyrim SE is the only other game I have played so far) does not play so well.

A CPU in your case will not achieve anything, you need a GPU upgrade. A 2070 Super is the minimum I would go for 4K gaming.


I have been wanting to upgrade my GPU, so I made a spreadsheet a little while ago to compare the 4K potential of a couple different cards and this is kind of the results:

image.png.01797b4a9f27d27993c39451658f4a22.png

That's a 4K Formula 1 and Witcher 3 benchmark (to former because I play some Codemaster racing games, the latter for more proper gaming performance). The RX 580 is the lowest row and as you can see, it will struggle in these games. The 2070 Super and better will be able to get 60fps+.

Depending on the game, you might still need a 2080 or 2080S though.

 

The latter two columns are benchmarks and are there for 'control' and easy comparison.

 

EDIT: source for the FPS: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_rtx_2080_ti_founders_review,1.html

"We're all in this together, might as well be friends" Tom, Toonami.

 

mini eLiXiVy: my open source 65% mechanical PCB, a build log, PCB anatomy and discussing open source licenses: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1366493-elixivy-a-65-mechanical-keyboard-build-log-pcb-anatomy-and-how-i-open-sourced-this-project/

 

mini_cardboard: a 4% keyboard build log and how keyboards work: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1328547-mini_cardboard-a-4-keyboard-build-log-and-how-keyboards-work/

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@Janne @Jurrunio You guys are legends thanks a lot. Your information is really helping me out here.

 

 @minibois That's a lot of research! My first card was a GTX 1050, so when I bought the RX580 I thought it was the best thing in the world. Clearly it wasn't ahaha

 

I will take a look at those cards. My 580 is running everything on max settings at 1080p without any problem but I guess in my naivety, I didn't realise how massive the step up to 4k actually is. If I do upgrade my card, would it be worth upgrading everything else too? I mean I am still on a DDR3 motherboard for example. Will it have much impact?

CPU: i5-4690K @ 3.5GHz || MoBo: Asus H81M-C || RAM: 16gb Kingston HyperX Blue || Cooler: Stock intel cooler || GPU: Palit GTX 1050 || PSU: Can't remember exactly but know it meets the needs of my components || Case: White Falcon Case || SSD: Kingston 120GB || Storage: WD Blue 1TB

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5 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

would it be worth upgrading everything else too?

as long as you intend to keep the same frame rate, just at a higher resolution, the CPU and memory are fine for now. You could still see bad performance from CPU heavy/memory intensive games tho like Assassin's Creed Origins

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: HP EX920 1TB PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + Crucial MX500 1TB 2.5" SATA SSD, 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally, 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) left outside Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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8 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

@Janne @Jurrunio You guys are legends thanks a lot. Your information is really helping me out here.

 

 @minibois That's a lot of research! My first card was a GTX 1050, so when I bought the RX580 I thought it was the best thing in the world. Clearly it wasn't ahaha

 

I will take a look at those cards. My 580 is running everything on max settings at 1080p without any problem but I guess in my naivety, I didn't realise how massive the step up to 4k actually is. If I do upgrade my card, would it be worth upgrading everything else too? I mean I am still on a DDR3 motherboard for example. Will it have much impact?

As @Jurrunio said, some games (Assassins' Creed, Cities: Skylines, etc.) may still not play nicely on the CPU, but it will be fine in many others.

 

For example, Battlefield (5 and 1) are still somewhat CPU dependent though, so an i7 will see an increase in performance:

bf1-cpu-benchmark-dx11

(That's a test at 1080p, with a GTX 1080. GTX 1080 is around RTX 2070 non Super performance. Tests are with 6th gen parts, but an i5 6400 kinda lines up with your CPU).

Source: https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2673-battlefield-1-cpu-benchmark-dx11-vs-dx12-i5-i7-fx/page-2

(Source for the previous numbers shown is this by the way: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_rtx_2080_ti_founders_review,1.html)

 

If you can get it for a decent price, the 4790K (+ small overclock if you have a Z97 board) is probably a decent cheap upgrade, which should boost the FPS in certain games.

The FPS increase will be smaller than what is shown above though. See it this way: 4K is twice the width and twice the height of 1080p. So 4 times the amount of pixels, thus of course that amount lower FPS in games with the same GPU.

With that logic, a 10 fps difference on 1080p, will only be a 2.5 fps difference at 4K.

 

The RX 580 is certainly a very good card for 1080p, decent at 1440p, but just for modern games does not really hold up at 4K.

"We're all in this together, might as well be friends" Tom, Toonami.

 

mini eLiXiVy: my open source 65% mechanical PCB, a build log, PCB anatomy and discussing open source licenses: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1366493-elixivy-a-65-mechanical-keyboard-build-log-pcb-anatomy-and-how-i-open-sourced-this-project/

 

mini_cardboard: a 4% keyboard build log and how keyboards work: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1328547-mini_cardboard-a-4-keyboard-build-log-and-how-keyboards-work/

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3 minutes ago, minibois said:

if you have a Z97 board)

He's using an H81 board, so probably a whole new platform is more appropriate

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: HP EX920 1TB PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + Crucial MX500 1TB 2.5" SATA SSD, 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally, 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) left outside Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

He's using an H81 board, so probably a whole new platform is more appropriate

Ah, didn't catch that.

 

In that case, an upgrade like this might be more logical (assuming all the non-changed parts are alright, I don't see a PSU mentioned):

Spoiler

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($194.79 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($114.99 @ Best Buy) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory  ($74.99 @ Newegg) 
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB BLACK GAMING Video Card  ($504.88 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $889.65
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-10-30 06:01 EDT-0400

Or if OP would want to go for a full new build:

Spoiler

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($194.79 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($114.99 @ Best Buy) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory  ($74.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Intel 660p Series 1.02 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($94.00 @ B&H) 
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB BLACK GAMING Video Card  ($504.88 @ OutletPC) 
Case: Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case  ($55.88 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: Corsair TXM Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply  ($69.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $1109.52
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-10-30 06:04 EDT-0400

 

"We're all in this together, might as well be friends" Tom, Toonami.

 

mini eLiXiVy: my open source 65% mechanical PCB, a build log, PCB anatomy and discussing open source licenses: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1366493-elixivy-a-65-mechanical-keyboard-build-log-pcb-anatomy-and-how-i-open-sourced-this-project/

 

mini_cardboard: a 4% keyboard build log and how keyboards work: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1328547-mini_cardboard-a-4-keyboard-build-log-and-how-keyboards-work/

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10 minutes ago, minibois said:

Ah, didn't catch that.

 

In that case, an upgrade like this might be more logical (assuming all the non-changed parts are alright, I don't see a PSU mentioned):

  Reveal hidden contents

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($194.79 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($114.99 @ Best Buy) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory  ($74.99 @ Newegg) 
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB BLACK GAMING Video Card  ($504.88 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $889.65
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-10-30 06:01 EDT-0400

Or if OP would want to go for a full new build:

  Reveal hidden contents

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($194.79 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($114.99 @ Best Buy) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory  ($74.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Intel 660p Series 1.02 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($94.00 @ B&H) 
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB BLACK GAMING Video Card  ($504.88 @ OutletPC) 
Case: Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case  ($55.88 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: Corsair TXM Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply  ($69.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $1109.52
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-10-30 06:04 EDT-0400

 

So... that's a little more money than I can spend :')

 

But you guys reckon for Graphically demanding games, such a SotTR and Kingdom Come (which I am in love with), just a beefier GPU would help a lot/

CPU: i5-4690K @ 3.5GHz || MoBo: Asus H81M-C || RAM: 16gb Kingston HyperX Blue || Cooler: Stock intel cooler || GPU: Palit GTX 1050 || PSU: Can't remember exactly but know it meets the needs of my components || Case: White Falcon Case || SSD: Kingston 120GB || Storage: WD Blue 1TB

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3 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

SotTR

yes? This isnt that harsh on the CPU

 

3 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

Kingdom Come

havent played this myself

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: HP EX920 1TB PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + Crucial MX500 1TB 2.5" SATA SSD, 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally, 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) left outside Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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6 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

yes? This isnt that harsh on the CPU

 

havent played this myself

Youve been a massive help man, thanks a lot, I really appreciate it

CPU: i5-4690K @ 3.5GHz || MoBo: Asus H81M-C || RAM: 16gb Kingston HyperX Blue || Cooler: Stock intel cooler || GPU: Palit GTX 1050 || PSU: Can't remember exactly but know it meets the needs of my components || Case: White Falcon Case || SSD: Kingston 120GB || Storage: WD Blue 1TB

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