Ryzen 3600 idle temperature fluctuation?

[RainingTacco]

GPU: 5700 XT Gigabyte Gaming OC

CPU: Ryzen 3600

CPU cooler: Scythe Mugen 5 rev.b

Motherboard: MSI B450M Mortar Max

RAM: Patriot Viper Steel 3600mhz CL17

PSU: Corsair RMx 850

Operating System & Version: Windows 10 64 bit

GPU Drivers: Newest drivers as of date.

Chipset Drivers: Newest as of date

BIOS: Newest as of date

Background Applications: Idle, Chrome with 20-30 tabs.

PC cooling: 2x140 in front at 1200 rpm when CPU climb at max temps, 2x120 rear and rear-top with 1200 rpm.

Case: Meshify C

 

Seriously how to make this CPU *NOT* constantly downclock/upclock, and change the temperature rapidly. Like my old I5 4670 had way better frequency control, power saving, and didn't jump in temperatures constantly. Is there any way to stop that? Any BIOS/software setting? I have sufficient cooling with Mugen 5 rev b and kryonaut, getting max 67-70 degree at furmark CPU/AIDA FPU tests, so cooling is not a problem. I've even repasted CPU with different paste[the one that came with Mugen 5 rev b], saw a temp. increase over kryonaut, but the fluctuations/spikes persisted as before.So this fluctuations completely destroys any fan curve, and make my case fans too loud on idle. I've thought on tying the fan speed with MOBO mosfet temps instead of CPU, but they hardly climb with how good MSI B450M mortar max manages the stock ryzen.I've tried to make a higher baseline RPM curve for lower temps, so it have more than enough cooling in low temps to manage the spikes, but it didnt help anything...I didn't try to change the step-up/step-down times[its basically hysteresis/inertia right?], maybe that will fix it? Though i doubt it, because it would need to be something like 1-2s of inertia, and there's no such value in BIOS. As a last resort i will try to use the stock cooler and check if it helps. Maybe the mugen is defective? But then, why it works under heavy load? If there was something funky with contact between IHS and mugen heat plate, it would make the temps skyrocket under prime95/aida fpu. 

 

 

CPU sits 34*C idle at the windows desktop[32 at bios], when you move mouse it goes to 43-44*c, when you open chrome it can sometimes go to 50*C, and opening the chrome with lots of tabs it can go even as high as 59-60*C!!!. The frequency on all cores don't drop below 3600 mhz, and 1.0V, slightly moving mouse and bam you have 1,3-1,4V and 4,2GHz on desktop, same for chrome.

im pretty pissed after moving from a I5 4670 with a lousy stock cooler that run flawlessly, compared to this. I've never had such problems with Intel Pentium 4, E8400 and I5 4670. Never seen 10*C-15*C jumps in idle, or 20-25*C jumps when opening chrome with CoreTemp monitoring program along. Never seen CPU running such high freq and voltage on idle.[the i5 4670 runs 0,7v -0,8ghz on idle, and even if the frequency and voltage jumps for a fraction, the temperature increase is not that much[5-8*C, with chrome its 10-12*C], whereas ryzen runs 3,6ghz 1,0v all the time on idle. This also badly impact environement and my bills, since its wasted electricity. 

 

Question is, i heard people talking about enabling/disabling cool and quiet, enabling/disabling power supply idle control, enabling/disabling PBO,setting P-states, manually overclocking/setting cores on the CPU to remedy this problem. So which one to do to fix the problem? I don't want to test all these settings, and screw something. Is there really no way to change it? I can't imagine a 2019 CPU needs to run its clocks at 3,2-3,6ghz at idle, to manage mundane tasks, when my old Haswell I5 4670, downlocked to 0,8GHz!!![and upclocked to 3,6 GHz when necessary!], and still run chrome/idle fine, with great temperatures[albeit i had 60hz monitor back then, idk if that changes anything, i doubt]

 

[Janne]

What's the problem? That's normal for ryzen, it's supposed to boost up to 1,5 V in low power work so it can get higher boost clocks in bursts. My 3900X peaks at over 70 degrees in normal windows usage, but in high power work like running cinebench for an hour the temps are at mid 60s. If you actually have constantly 3,6 GHz in idle though that's pretty odd, mine is like 2,2 GHz.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbls9g/the_final_word_on_idle_voltages_for_3rd_gen_ryzen/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

 

[SavageNeo]

21 hours ago, RainingTacco said:

<snip>

 

Your cpu is made that when it has small usage it will lower voltages and it will lower clocks too. You could try and go bios to force constant voltage, but i would not suggest it.

 

21 hours ago, SavageNeo said:

Your cpu is made that when it has small usage it will lower voltages and it will lower clocks too. You could try and go bios to force constant voltage, but i would not suggest it.

I have r7 3700x and it does the same

Edited October 30, 2019 by LogicalDrm

[RainingTacco]

My problem is:

-i don't want temps to fluctuate that much, why can intel manage this way better?

-i want it to clock lower/downvolt more, to save energy and produce less heat

-if all of above fails, i want to somehow manage this -ie. good fan settings to reduce that, maybe some bios options? 

 

Why i have the feeling that none of you read my post :D?

[SavageNeo]

Just now, RainingTacco said:

My problem is:

-i don't want temps to fluctuate that much, why can intel manage this way better?

-i want it to clock lower/downvolt more, to save energy and produce less heat

-if all of above fails, i want to somehow manage this -ie. good fan settings to reduce that, maybe some bios options? 

 

Why i have the feeling that none of you read my post :D?

go to bios and change voltage offset. You should google how to do this. Voltage offset buts your voltages lower and same temps

[Janne]

1 minute ago, RainingTacco said:

My problem is:

-i don't want temps to fluctuate that much, why can intel manage this way better?

-i want it to clock lower/downvolt more, to save energy and produce less heat

-if all of above fails, i want to somehow manage this -ie. good fan settings to reduce that, maybe some bios options? 

 

Why i have the feeling that none of you read my post :D?

1. Nothing wrong with that

2. If your CPU idles at 34 degrees it isn't using lots of power

[RainingTacco]

1 minute ago, Janne said:

1. Nothing wrong with that

2. If your CPU idles at 34 degrees it isn't using lots of power

Ok, how would you make a quiet PC with ryzen? Whether the CPU jumps 10-15 degrees the fans start to be pretty audible. I can either make a higher baseline RPM for case fans, which would make them louder but they would not ramp as much[its not the loudeness problem per se, constant noise is much better than a fluctuating noise], or make the case fans to have very low RPM, just until CPU hit above 60+ and then set them to ramp up/full power. I hate that i have to make such workarounds. 

[DailyProcrastinator]

7 minutes ago, RainingTacco said:

My problem is:

-i don't want temps to fluctuate that much, why can intel manage this way better?

-i want it to clock lower/downvolt more, to save energy and produce less heat

-if all of above fails, i want to somehow manage this -ie. good fan settings to reduce that, maybe some bios options? 

 

Why i have the feeling that none of you read my post :D?

What logical reason is there for not want temps to fluctuate that much?

 

If you want to, go change your offset voltage and don't worry about it that much. An i5-4670 isn't even remotely similar, you are comparing apples and oranges.

 

50 Degrees C is perfectly safe. It sounds like the fix to your problem is closing your temp monitor and not worry about it in my opinion. My R7 1700 and R7 3800x do the same thing.

 

EDIT: Controlling fans is up to a fan curve software or what it is set to in BIOS, nothing to do with Ryzen. 

[Janne]

Just now, RainingTacco said:

Ok, how would you make a quiet PC with ryzen? Whether the CPU jumps 10-15 degrees the fans start to be pretty audible. I can either make a higher baseline RPM for case fans, which would make them louder but they would not ramp as much[its not the loudeness problem per se, constant noise is much better than a fluctuating noise], or make the case fans to have very low RPM, just until CPU hit above 60+ and then set them to ramp up/full power. I hate that i have to make such workarounds. 

You can apply hysteresis with stuff like SpeedFan. I just run my stuff at fixed speeds because i have a custom loop. I can see why it can be annoying on normal air cooling though

[Vishera]

It's normal for Ryzen,

I personally disabled Cool & Quiet due to clock speed fluctuation under load that caused stuttering and frame time issues in some workloads,

I also overclocked my CPU so CPB is disabled.

So now i don't have any fluctuation,It's rock solid.

 

But disabling Cool & Quiet will pin your CPU to the highest clock speed and voltage all the time.

By disabling CPB you will have no boost.

 

Just do a custom fan curve.

[RainingTacco]

3 minutes ago, JM21 said:

What logical reason is there for not want temps to fluctuate that much?

 

If you want to, go change your offset voltage and don't worry about it that much. An i5-4670 isn't even remotely similar, you are comparing apples and oranges.

 

50 Degrees C is perfectly safe. It sounds like the fix to your problem is closing your temp monitor and not worry about it in my opinion. My R7 1700 and R7 3800x do the same thing.

I'm not so concerned about CPU that much[albeit i would like it to run cooler on idle] but i hate the fluctuating noise/fan problem :(. I've checked BIOS, and step-up/step-down time, has 0,7s max

 

Maybe i've started noticing the problem right now, because before that i didn't have the fans tied to CPU temperature, i've actually had a controller with fixed voltage inputs so low, medium, high, and stop, and i set them manually. And i also never had amd cpu, always an intel guy[yeah im a shill :D].

[Janne]

2 minutes ago, RainingTacco said:

I'm not so concerned about CPU that much[albeit i would like it to run cooler on idle] but i hate the fluctuating noise/fan problem :(. I've checked BIOS, and step-up/step-down time, has 0,7s max

Probably the simplest workaround would be to set the fan speed to be constantly silent at temperatures for example under 60 or whatever and only after that it would ramp up

[DailyProcrastinator]

6 minutes ago, RainingTacco said:

I'm not so concerned about CPU that much[albeit i would like it to run cooler on idle] but i hate the fluctuating noise/fan problem :(. I've checked BIOS, and step-up/step-down time, has 0,7s max

Set fan curves through MSI afterburner/command center or whatever its called, this is software that allows you to control your fan curves outside of Bios. 

 

Edit: Wanting your fans to not be so loud and not ramp up so fast is reasonable, I keep my system as quiet as I can within reasonable temps. With Asus (what I use) and Fan Xpert4 It's a lot easier to do so but I'm not sure how MSi's software works to be honest.

[RainingTacco]

42 minutes ago, JM21 said:

Set fan curves through MSI afterburner/command center or whatever its called, this is software that allows you to control you fan curves outside of Bios. 

MSI command center have less options than BIOS, there's no hysteresis/step up time. About msi afterburner, i didn't know you can control case fans with it? I thought its only for GPu?

I feel like a total retard and failure, for ditching that nice kryonaut and replacing it with scythe stock paste. I thought i've applied kryonaut improperly, since it was very gummy/thick[never had such thick paste in my life that would stick to spatula more than to IHS!] and would stick to spatula, so my IHS coverage was pretty patchy. Turns out i've just applied it inproperly -you have to make a very, very slow moves, when smearing it on IHS[or just squeeze it in X sign on IHS]. It has to be like tixotropic/non newtonian fluid, when you make a fast swipes,it hardens/become more dense. When you apply constant but little force, it relaxes and smear well. 

 

[Vishera]

8 minutes ago, RainingTacco said:

About msi afterburner, i didn't know you can control case fans with it? I thought its only for GPu?

You are correct,Afterburner is only for the GPU.

As for thermal paste application there are a lot of methods of how to apply a thermal paste,

A lot of people prefer the pea in the middle method since it's easy and quick to apply.

 

For a bigger IHS like in Threadripper the X or the line methods can be used,i would recommend the X method for a big IHS.