Ryzen Workstation Build and future-proofing

[Scarab]

Hi,

Building a new hobby workstation for Blender, UE4, Photoshop, ML (Tensorflow/Keras), and computational physics/mathematics since my current rig is closing in on its 10^th anniversary... And it is starting to feel sluggish to say the least. I am making this post since I would like some input from you all on the parts that I have chosen before I go ahead and buy it. I do not really have a budget, but I am not one to splurge on unnecessary things unless it has a purpose (inb4 case and PSU  ). If you have better suggestions to the parts then please feel free to suggest other parts, or perhaps it would be better for me to consider a whole 'nother configuration entirely?

 

Case: Fractal Design Define S

Additional fan: NF-A14 ULN

 

I went with the Fractal Design Define S (no window) for the sound dampening and dimensions that allow for both NH-D15 and GAMING X TRIO. I am considering the NF-A14 ULN as an extra intake fan to the system to provide a positive pressure and increase the overall airflow.

 

Motherboard: Asrock X570 Taichi (?)

 

Again, a long-term investment since I get the PCIe 4.0. Currently, I would only utilise it for the Corsair MP600, but I plan on having the system for many, many years to come. I have read good things about the Asrock X570 Taichi, but still a bit worried about the life-time of the board since it is rather new.

 

CPU: Ryzen 3900x

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 (?)

 

3900X seems to perform well within the applications and workloads that I use. A bit unsure about the NH-D15, but I've heard good things about it, and the RAM I am considering is not too tall.

 

GPU: MSI GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8GB GAMING X TRIO

 

Seems to be a great value card for the workloads that I have. Plan is to get a second GPU in the future (no SLI). Went with Nvidia for the CUDA. Seems like Blender and Nvidia is collaborating as well.

 

RAM:

G.Skill Flare X DDR4-3200MHz CL14-14-14-34 1.35V 32GB (4x8GB)

OR

G.Skill 32GB (4x8GB) DDR4 3600MHz CL16 Trident Z Neo C

 

Unclear whether or not the Flare X CL14 will work well with the mobo. Sent an e-mail to G.Skill since they listed the X570 Taichi in their QVL for this particular kit while Asrock did not list the kit in their QVL. Will have to see what they, or you, say. Otherwise Trident Z Neo C seems to be a good value kit.

 

PSU: Corsair RM850x v2 (?)

 

Went with 850W to future-proof my system for a second GPU and overclocking. Perhaps a 750W would have been enough, but hard to tell what the power draw will be in the future for my system. Input?

 

Storage:

Corsair MP600 1TB (Active projects)

Samsung 860 EVO 1TB (Dual-boot Win10 and Linux)

Barracuda HDD 2TB (Archival drive)

Might go with a smaller capacity SSD on either the MP600 or 860 EVO, but other than that I feel good about the configuration.

[Fasauceome]

8 minutes ago, Scarab said:

Seems like Blender and Nvidia is collaborating as well.

Blender has really good OpenCL implementation, AMD performance ain't too shabby for your renders. Might wanna consider a 5700 XT, if the price is right. 

 

Also, future proof just ain't a real thing. Unless you have a definite plan for the future upgrade path of your PC, don't buy upgrades for stuff you might get, like an 850 watt PSU. Spending a whack ton of money in the hopes your PC lasts longer often doesn't pan out 

[Scarab]

4 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

Blender has really good OpenCL implementation, AMD performance ain't too shabby for your renders. Might wanna consider a 5700 XT, if the price is right. 

 

Also, future proof just ain't a real thing. Unless you have a definite plan for the future upgrade path of your PC, don't buy upgrades for stuff you might get, like an 850 watt PSU. Spending a whack ton of money in the hopes your PC lasts longer often doesn't pan out 

Thank you for the answer.

The Blender/Nvidia cooperation was an additional bonus in my decision to go with Nvidia since I have previous experience with CUDA (e.g. cuDNN); I forgot to mention that in my post. I am fairly certain that I will stay away from AMD GPU:s due to the different workloads that I have.

You do make a fair point with the future proofing. I will definitely reconsider the PSU and do some more reading on the subject.

[Stormseeker9]

Instead of using 4 ram sticks rather get 2*16GB sticks.

[SupaKomputa]

Go buy any hardware you can afford now. It'll probably last for at least 5 years.

Future proofing is not as rigid as before where you need a new hardware to run certain instruction set.

In 5 years your current hardware might run the job, just a bit slower. Just a matter of waiting.

 

Cuda is superior at the moment, any software that can run CUDA should take advantage of it.

AMD should be better in an opengl only software.

 

750watt psu should be enough.

[Scarab]

44 minutes ago, Stormseeker9 said:

Instead of using 4 ram sticks rather get 2*16GB sticks.

Seems like there is no use for quad channel unless one uses Threadripper. Dual channel kits seems cheaper as well, so good point. Will definitely have to look deeper on that part, for sure.

[Scarab]

33 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

750watt psu should be enough.

Thank you for the recommendation. RM750x v2 was on my list earlier, so might go with that instead.

[mariushm]

The best low price x570 boards when it comes to temperatures and support for high end processors (features are about the same on all boards) are :

 

1. GIGABYTE X570 AORUS Elite  and

2. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-Plus

 

You can see video below where Hardware Unboxed reviewed lots of boards.

 

You don't need a 850w power supply. You can save some money and go with a 650w power supply. You only need more if you're gonna have 2 high end video cards, and even then it's a stretch. 

 

You'd be better off going with 2 x 16 GB 3200 or 3600 Mhz memory sticks, preferably running at standard 1.2v and good timings like CL16.. CL18

 

It's just a bit more difficult for a motherboard and for the CPU to "drive" four memory sticks compared to just two, and there's no benefit to using 4 memory sticks on socket AM4 - the processors are only dual channel, two sticks will give you top throughput.

 

No need to bother getting memory that's in the QVL list for a particular motherboard, Ryzen 3 processors have much better support for memory sticks than 1st generation... it will work with pretty much everything. Worst case scenario, you'll just have to run the memory at a slightly lower frequency but that happens extremely rarely.

 

Here's a couple suggestions

 

125$  2 x 16 GB : 3200 Mhz CL16 G-Skill Ripjaws V : https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232091

135$ 2 x 16 GB : 3200 Mhz CL 16 Trident Z : https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232091

155$ 2 x 16 GB : 3200 Mhz Corsair Vengeance LPX  : https://pcpartpicker.com/product/6rrcCJ/corsair-memory-cmk32gx4m2b3200c16

 

 

 

[SupaKomputa]

5 minutes ago, Scarab said:

Seems like there is no use for quad channel unless one uses Threadripper. Dual channel kits seems cheaper as well, so good point. Will definitely have to look deeper on that part, for sure.

The reason to go for 2 dimm is upgradabilty, once you need 64gb, you can have 2 slots available to you.

[Gorgon]

I presume your considering the Define S2 rather than the S. You might want to consider the Meshify S2 over the Define S2.

 

It is getting difficult to find the Define S and I suspect that they are  end-of-life.

 

I own and use both the S and the Meshify S and though the sound dampening in the Define series is tempting Gamers Nexus has done some tests and my own use suggest that replacing the restricted front intakes with a mesh front reduces overall system noise. With my Define R4s, Define C and the S I had to use high static pressure fans (Noctua iPPC 3000 140mm) to get adequate airflow with dual GPUs. In the Meshify I use less expensive airflow optimized fans (Noctua Redux) which can be run at a lower speed.

 

As others have said 850W is over capacity for two mid range cards. But then it never hurts to have some headroom and depending on the efficiency curve it might help the power supply run more efficiently. One of my systems with a RTX 2070 Super and 2080 Super with the GPUs going to the max and the CPU (2700x) running all cores draws between 585 and 625W. A 650 would work for two 2070 Supers but 750s typically have more PCIe power connectors and would give you some power budget.

 

The Noctua NH-D15 is huge and will prevent the use of a top Rad in the Define S, S2 or Meshify S. If you want an air cooler spend the extra and get the NH-U12A you will have much less clearance issues but at that point your getting into the price range of decent 240 and 280mm AIOs

[Gorgon]

You might also want to consider a hybrid GPU. I have 4 of the EVGA 2070 Super Hybrids and they are currently only a modest premium over the dual-fan versions. I find they run almost silently (but I am older and may not be able to hear coil whine or pump noise which others have mentioned in reviews) but what I am impressed with is that the operate at 120% power 2040-2055MHz at 48-54C 24x7 on the GPU and dump all the heat outside the chassis.

[Gorgon]

1 hour ago, mariushm said:

The best low price x570 boards when it comes to temperatures and support for high end processors (features are about the same on all boards) are :

 

1. GIGABYTE X570 AORUS Elite  and

2. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-Plus

...

The Aorus Elite is not a good choice for dual GPU use as it only has one PCIe x16 Slot connected to the CPU. The Pro has 2 which can be run x16/0 or x8/x8 (i.e. it has PCIe switches to direct the upper 8 lanes from the upper slot to the lower lanes on the lower slot)

[mariushm]

27 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

The Aorus Elite is not a good choice for dual GPU use as it only has one PCIe x16 Slot connected to the CPU.

Seems to be a great value card for the workloads that I have. Plan is to get a second GPU in the future (no SLI)

 

If it's not gonna be SLI,  the 2nd pci-e x16 (pci-e 3.0 x8 from chipset) will be plenty for compute purposes or whatever.

The Asus TUF says the 2nd pci-e x16 is only pci-e 4.0 x4

 

both the Gigabyte Elite and the x570 Taichi have the same VRM ( 6x2 phases , 50A mosfets) , while the Asus TUF Gaming Plus has a 4phase VRM with 3 mosfets per phase, so 4x3 and almost same good 50A mosfets so both models are good.

 

Yes, Taichi has 1x16 / 2x8 but you also pay 75-100$ extra for this... when you may not need it.

 

At that price, you're awful close to a Treadripper board like Asrock x399 Taichi

with 4 pci-e x16 slots , 3 m.2 slots, quad channel ddr4... everything but pci-e 4.0 which won't be relevant for another year or so.

 

Microcenter has Threadripper 2920x (12 core / 24 threads) for $300 : https://www.microcenter.com/product/513567/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2920x-35ghz-12-core-tr4-boxed-processor

About same performance as 3700x in benchmarks.

[Scarab]

1 hour ago, mariushm said:

The best low price x570 boards when it comes to temperatures and support for high end processors (features are about the same on all boards) are :

 

1. GIGABYTE X570 AORUS Elite  and

2. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-Plus

 

.

.

.

Thank you for the tips on the motherboards. Spent some time looking further into them and I am starting to lean more towards the Gigabyte x570 Aorus Pro. I can't seem to be able to find the WiFi model in my country though. Which means I might have to give up 8x/8x if I go dual GPU, one NVMe, and plug a wireless card in... Or I can go with an ethernet cable! Then again, 8 lanes are overkill on PCIe 4.0 for a 2070. 

The suggestions on the RAM from you, and the rest in this thread, has made me reconsider, and I'll definitely go for 2x16 GB. Thanks for the list of RAM as well! 

Will go for a 750W PSU. Mostly because I know that I'll end up with two GPUs in the end. 

Thanks a lot for the thorough reply, and I do appreciate the video link.

[Scarab]

1 hour ago, SupaKomputa said:

The reason to go for 2 dimm is upgradabilty, once you need 64gb, you can have 2 slots available to you.

Ah, smart thinking there; I like that. So, if I get this right, there is no problem if I get two kits of 2x16GB instead of one 4x16GB since it only supports dual channel.

[SupaKomputa]

you can even have 2x16 and 2x8 for a 48gb combo.

dual channel work in pairs.

[Scarab]

1 hour ago, Gorgon said:

I presume your considering the Define S2 rather than the S. You might want to consider the Meshify S2 over the Define S2.

 

It is getting difficult to find the Define S and I suspect that they are  end-of-life.

 

I own and use both the S and the Meshify S and though the sound dampening in the Define series is tempting Gamers Nexus has done some tests and my own use suggest that replacing the restricted front intakes with a mesh front reduces overall system noise. With my Define R4s, Define C and the S I had to use high static pressure fans (Noctua iPPC 3000 140mm) to get adequate airflow with dual GPUs. In the Meshify I use less expensive airflow optimized fans (Noctua Redux) which can be run at a lower speed.

 

As others have said 850W is over capacity for two mid range cards. But then it never hurts to have some headroom and depending on the efficiency curve it might help the power supply run more efficiently. One of my systems with a RTX 2070 Super and 2080 Super with the GPUs going to the max and the CPU (2700x) running all cores draws between 585 and 625W. A 650 would work for two 2070 Supers but 750s typically have more PCIe power connectors and would give you some power budget.

 

The Noctua NH-D15 is huge and will prevent the use of a top Rad in the Define S, S2 or Meshify S. If you want an air cooler spend the extra and get the NH-U12A you will have much less clearance issues but at that point your getting into the price range of decent 240 and 280mm AIOs

I am actually considering the Define S. The stores available to me have 50+ in stock each. Same goes for Fractal Design Meshify C. Although, I have the more expensive S2 versions available to me as well. Would you say that Meshify would be more beneficial if I want to have a quiet system? 

I'll most likely be going for the RM750x v2. Will look around a bit more, but I don't think I want to go lower than that with two GPUs in the not so distant future. 

The NH-U12A seems like a good choice, and doesn't overhang the RAM either. But in the end, perhaps an AIO would be more beneficial if I do some overclocking. 

Also considering the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro, so thank you for your input.

[Scarab]

18 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Seems to be a great value card for the workloads that I have. Plan is to get a second GPU in the future (no SLI)

 

If it's not gonna be SLI,  the 2nd pci-e x16 (pci-e 3.0 x8 from chipset) will be plenty for compute purposes or whatever.

The Asus TUF says the 2nd pci-e x16 is only pci-e 4.0 x4

 

both the Gigabyte Elite and the x570 Taichi have the same VRM ( 6x2 phases , 50A mosfets) , while the Asus TUF Gaming Plus has a 4phase VRM with 3 mosfets per phase, so 4x3 and almost same good 50A mosfets so both models are good.

 

Yes, Taichi has 1x16 / 2x8 but you also pay 75-100$ extra for this... when you may not need it.

 

At that price, you're awful close to a Treadripper board like Asrock x399 Taichi

with 4 pci-e x16 slots , 3 m.2 slots, quad channel ddr4... everything but pci-e 4.0 which won't be relevant for another year or so.

 

Microcenter has Threadripper 2920x (12 core / 24 threads) for $300 : https://www.microcenter.com/product/513567/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2920x-35ghz-12-core-tr4-boxed-processor

About same performance as 3700x in benchmarks.

I am steering more and more away from the Taichi. The Gigabyte boards seem to be the better choice from the reviews I have seen, and the video that you linked. Either the Elite or the Pro, but I'll have to look at the differences and see what is actually beneficial to me. 

Threadripper is tempting, and something that I'll definitely look into some more since it has a really reasonable price point.

[Gorgon]

5 minutes ago, Scarab said:

Would you say that Meshify would be more beneficial if I want to have a quiet system?

Both can be quiet systems, for cooling 2 GPUs you'll likely need 2 140mm air-pressure front-intake fans in the Define where you can get away with Air-flow fans in the Meshify. If you can get a good price on the Define S and it leaves you money left over for the price difference between the fans then that might be your best option.

 

The Meshify S2 also has an open top which may or may not be a factor.

[BoringBadger]

I just configured and ordered a 3900x system myself and after literally days of searching and looking at QVL lists and such I decided to go with this RAM:

 

G.Skill Trident Z Neo, 2x16GB Kit, 3600 CL16-19-19-39, F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC with an X570 Aorus Ultra.

 

If you google "G Skill QVL" you will find the G.Skill RAM configurator which helped me decide on this. You can enter your board model and it'll tell you the compatible kits G.Skill sells, if you don't want to go with the RGB hypetrain.

Two sticks seems to be the way to go as I learned the following from @dizmo "Get dual channel memory. IIRC AM4 isn't quad channel."

 

This RAM is supposed to work well with Ryzen3000 / X570 but I can't tell you and personal feedback yet as I haven't received most of the components. Seen it in a video work well though on a X570 board.

 

If you're going with the Noctua D15 as I am, it's a great cooler, you must not forget the RAM clearance. I've decided to change the outer fan on the D15 for an NF-F12 which allows max 45mm RAM clearance while not making the D15 taller than the 165mm it already is on it's own. 45mm allows the Trident Zs to comfortably live there being 44mm tall. 

When picking a case you'll need to keep an eye out for max supported CPU cooler height as this is indeed an issue with the D15. After hours of browsing I decided to pick the NZXT H510i which does support ATX motherboards while not being an enormous case but still allowing just enough clearance for the D15 (at least the datasheet says so, I'll find out next week )

 

Considering the PSU:

I decided to go with the RM750x in the end because it's got 2x 4/8-Pin ATX12V, and my motherboard does have 1x 8-Pin EPS12V, 1x 4-Pin ATX12V. Maybe also take that into consideration for whichever motherboard you choose. As said, I went with the X570 Aorus Ultra.

The RM650x does only have 1x 4/8-Pin ATX12V

My 2-cents on the RM750x: I don't like the cables that come with it at all. They're very stiff and ghastly looking with weird 6+2 splits with the 2pin tapped straight into the 6pin and daisy chained connectors which makes it ugly looking imo. I'll get myself a Cablemod replacement for those. But I've learned it's supposed to be a very good PSU. Kudos for this go to @brob

 

 

you can find my build planning here if you're interested:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1116726-high-end-rig-start-from-zero/?tab=comments#comment-12996488

 

[Scarab]

On 10/27/2019 at 9:47 PM, BoringBadger said:

I just configured and ordered a 3900x system myself and after literally days of searching and looking at QVL lists and such I decided to go with this RAM:

 

G.Skill Trident Z Neo, 2x16GB Kit, 3600 CL16-19-19-39, F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC with an X570 Aorus Ultra.

 

[...]

 

This RAM is supposed to work well with Ryzen3000 / X570 but I can't tell you and personal feedback yet as I haven't received most of the components. Seen it in a video work well though on a X570 board.

 

If you're going with the Noctua D15 as I am, it's a great cooler, you must not forget the RAM clearance. I've decided to change the outer fan on the D15 for an NF-F12 which allows max 45mm RAM clearance while not making the D15 taller than the 165mm it already is on it's own. 45mm allows the Trident Zs to comfortably live there being 44mm tall. 

[...]

 

Considering the PSU:

I decided to go with the RM750x in the end because it's got 2x 4/8-Pin ATX12V, and my motherboard does have 1x 8-Pin EPS12V, 1x 4-Pin ATX12V. Maybe also take that into consideration for whichever motherboard you choose. As said, I went with the X570 Aorus Ultra.

The RM650x does only have 1x 4/8-Pin ATX12V

My 2-cents on the RM750x: I don't like the cables that come with it at all. They're very stiff and ghastly looking with weird 6+2 splits with the 2pin tapped straight into the 6pin and daisy chained connectors which makes it ugly looking imo. I'll get myself a Cablemod replacement for those. But I've learned it's supposed to be a very good PSU. Kudos for this go to @brob

 

[...]

 

That you for the very thorough reply, Badger. 

I will definitely be going with two sticks to begin with, and if I notice that I need another 32GB I can just get another dual channel kit. Not sure which kit yet, but the Trident Z Neo is, as you put it, supposedly engineered towards the X570 motherboard and the Ryzen CPU:s. 

I am definitely going for air cooling, but not sure if it is going to be the NH-D15 yet. Either that or another smaller Noctua model. I do like the idea of getting a smaller second fan for the NH-D15 to give more RAM clearance; thank you for the tip!

I don't really care how the inside of my case looks like (fortunately!), and I am sure I can still do a good cable management with the RM750X cables.I do hope that the PSU will be as good as everyone says it is.

[BoringBadger]

I'm happy to help.

20 minutes ago, Scarab said:

I am definitely going for air cooling, but not sure if it is going to be the NH-D15 yet. Either that or another smaller Noctua model. I do like the idea of getting a smaller second fan for the NH-D15 to give more RAM clearance; thank you for the tip!

If you got the space and budget for a D15 I'd go with it as it is top notch - it probably won't get better than that with air coolers  (I got to admit, I do like that cooler and you can't ever have enough cooling power -- worked with the D15 before, it was a breeze to install and keeps noise and temperatures under control)

As far as I've read (not sure where though) you can also use the factory fan-clip that comes with the cooler for the 120mm fan. That saves on extra work and you don't need to MacGyver something to hold it in place   - can't confirm myself yet but seems plausible, I hope I can confirm next weekend, I'll let you know if you're interested.

 

[Scarab]

On 10/29/2019 at 7:20 PM, BoringBadger said:

I'm happy to help.

If you got the space and budget for a D15 I'd go with it as it is top notch - it probably won't get better than that with air coolers  (I got to admit, I do like that cooler and you can't ever have enough cooling power -- worked with the D15 before, it was a breeze to install and keeps noise and temperatures under control)

As far as I've read (not sure where though) you can also use the factory fan-clip that comes with the cooler for the 120mm fan. That saves on extra work and you don't need to MacGyver something to hold it in place   - can't confirm myself yet but seems plausible, I hope I can confirm next weekend, I'll let you know if you're interested.

 

I will most likely go for the NH-D15S with an extra NF-A12x25 fan for some RAM clearance even though my case is big enough. 

Please let me know how it goes!

[BoringBadger]

I'm not sure of you'd get the "spare" fan clips when you buy a D15s, you'd have to look that up.

Edit: looked it up, you DO get spare fan clips, I strongly assume they're the same 120mm mounting clips.

"Scope of delivery: Fan clips for second fan" stated on the D15s product page.

 

Picked up the NF-F12 today, cooler on hand for a couple days - loosely test fitted: it works.

It even says on the Noctua page, we could just have looked it up, duh:

"Fan compatibility: 140x150x25 (with 120mm mounting holes)"

 

But oh well, now I know for sure. Heres some impressions. As said I didn't fully clip the fan to the cooler, I just set in on there.

 

Open spoiler for photos

Spoiler

 

The two fans just placed atop each other

 

the mounting holes line up

 

set on cooler, I love that all black look

 

works fine, allows lots of RAM clearance as intended

 

The D15 came in some sort of special edition, idk  

if those stickers don't give me -10°C and +25FPS I don't know what will... please excuse the horrible compressed look, I snagged this out my "sent on whatsapp" folder because I forgot to take another pic when I had everything unpacked.

 

[Scarab]

On 10/30/2019 at 9:28 PM, BoringBadger said:

I'm not sure of you'd get the "spare" fan clips when you buy a D15s, you'd have to look that up.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The two fans just placed atop each other

 

the mounting holes line up

 

set on cooler, I love that all black look

 

works fine, allows lots of RAM clearance as intended

 

The D15 came in some sort of special edition, idk  

if those stickers don't give me -10°C and +25FPS I don't know what will... please excuse the horrible compressed look, I snagged this out my "sent on whatsapp" folder because I forgot to take another pic when I had everything unpacked.

 

Yea. I looked it all up beforehand. Shouldn't be a problem to pair the two that I mentioned earlier. 

Seems like the fans align pretty nicely. Hope your rig works well for you.