Future of "Deus Vult" in Crusader Kings 3 in limbo

[Andreas Lilja]

#6

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/10/19/crusader-kings-3-is-happening-heres-ten-things-we-know-so-far/

 

Top kek

[Praesi]

RPS is the worst "Gaming" Site ever. Woke Fucktards. But thats just my Point of View.

[SenKa]

MFW people get offended by "god wills it".

 

Also, agreed with Praesi above me.

[Sakkura]

Maybe if nazis hadn't turned it into a racist internet meme, this wouldn't have happened?

 

IDGAF about it, it's not a significant thing in-game anyway. CK3 looks good, just hope it's more complete at launch than Imperator: Rome. Great that they're giving people a free expansion for Imperator: Rome by the way.

[SenKa]

Just now, Sakkura said:

Maybe if nazis hadn't turned it into a racist internet meme, this wouldn't have happened?

I can't take that idea seriously simply because of the fact that pepe the frog is considered a symbol of white supremacist hate speech. By your logic if nazis started calling native americans watermelons because "theyre both red and soft haha", then we need to stop calling the melon a watermelon. Its a slippery slope.

[Sakkura]

1 minute ago, SenKa said:

I can't take that idea seriously simply because of the fact that pepe the frog is considered a symbol of white supremacist hate speech. By your logic if nazis started calling native americans watermelons because "theyre both red and soft haha", then we need to stop calling the melon a watermelon. Its a slippery slope.

Maybe they shouldn't have turned Pepe into a white supremacist symbol then... You're simply blaming the wrong people. It's like being upset that people don't use swastikas much nowadays. Yeah no shit, someone went and ruined the hell out of that symbol.

[SenKa]

Just now, Sakkura said:

Maybe they shouldn't have turned Pepe into a white supremacist symbol then... You're simply blaming the wrong people. It's like being upset that people don't use swastikas much nowadays. Yeah no shit, someone went and ruined the hell out of that symbol.

I mean the difference is in modern history the swastika was always used as a symbol of hate. Pepe exists only in modern history, and is a meme.

[Sakkura]

1 minute ago, SenKa said:

I mean the difference is in modern history the swastika was always used as a symbol of hate. Pepe exists only in modern history, and is a meme.

The swastika was not always used as a symbol of hate in modern history. It only took on that meaning in the 1930s.

 

Whether it's a meme is not really important. Memes can be good or bad like any other thing. The fact of the matter is Pepe is now primarily a symbol of fascist ideology, and should be treated as such. The phrase Deus Vult has been moving in that direction too, though it's certainly less prominent than Pepe.

 

I definitely don't want swastikas or Pepes in games unless there's a very good reason to include them. I don't care quite so much about Deus Vult, but as it already played practically no role in CK2, I really don't care about it being absent from CK3.

[SenKa]

9 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

The swastika was not always used as a symbol of hate in modern history. It only took on that meaning in the 1930s.

Prior to the 30's the swastika was used in pre-christian europe, which I would not exactly concider "modern history".

 

10 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Whether it's a meme is not really important. Memes can be good or bad like any other thing. The fact of the matter is Pepe is now primarily a symbol of fascist ideology, and should be treated as such. The phrase Deus Vult has been moving in that direction too, though it's certainly less prominent than Pepe.

I would like examples of this. I don't hang around many fascists, but I have hardly ever seen pepe used outside of memes/meme content. Same for dues vult.

 

11 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

I definitely don't want swastikas or Pepes in games unless there's a very good reason to include them. I don't care quite so much about Deus Vult, but as it already played practically no role in CK2, I really don't care about it being absent from CK3.

I definitely believe you are in the majority there with swastikas. I don't think a game dev could get away with it in 2019 regardless of a valid reason, even if the game specifically required it to be historically accurate and the point of the game was historical accuracy. Dues Vult I could atleast understand being on edge about, especially for games meant to be sold in non-christian dominant areas of the world where that phrase holds genuine meaning to that countries history. I still can't wrap my head around the pepe situation.

[Sakkura]

8 hours ago, SenKa said:

Prior to the 30's the swastika was used in pre-christian europe, which I would not exactly concider "modern history".

 

I would like examples of this. I don't hang around many fascists, but I have hardly ever seen pepe used outside of memes/meme content. Same for dues vult.

 

I definitely believe you are in the majority there with swastikas. I don't think a game dev could get away with it in 2019 regardless of a valid reason, even if the game specifically required it to be historically accurate and the point of the game was historical accuracy. Dues Vult I could atleast understand being on edge about, especially for games meant to be sold in non-christian dominant areas of the world where that phrase holds genuine meaning to that countries history. I still can't wrap my head around the pepe situation.

Modern history began around 1500. Opinions vary, some say 1492, some say 1521 etc. but certainly long before 1930. And it was used, sparsely, in Christian Europe.

 

Why do you want examples outside of memes? You do know memes can be fascist, and fascists can spread memes, right? Here is an article about the wider phenomenon.

[Praesi]

10 hours ago, Sakkura said:

Maybe if nazis hadn't turned it into a racist internet meme, this wouldn't have happened?

Sarcasm i hope.

[SenKa]

4 hours ago, Sakkura said:

Why do you want examples outside of memes? You do know memes can be fascist, and fascists can spread memes, right? Here is an article about the wider phenomenon.

I didn't say I want examples outside of memes, I want examples of these nazistic facist memes that made Pepe and Dues Vult symbols of white supremacy, nazism, racism, ect.

 

Also, that was the only guardian article I have read that didn't melt my brain with its bias and lack of sources. I'm actually a little shocked.

[Sakkura]

1 hour ago, SenKa said:

I didn't say I want examples outside of memes, I want examples of these nazistic facist memes that made Pepe and Dues Vult symbols of white supremacy, nazism, racism, ect.

 

Also, that was the only guardian article I have read that didn't melt my brain with its bias and lack of sources. I'm actually a little shocked.

I don't really want to post fascist content. But you can find a couple examples in these reports:

 

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1610.03452v1.pdf

 

https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalism-Task-Force_v2.pdf

 

There's worse stuff if you google. And that's just the stuff that gets outside the 4chan circles.

[Praesi]

22 hours ago, SenKa said:

I can't take that idea seriously simply because of the fact that pepe the frog is considered a symbol of white supremacist hate speech. By your logic if nazis started calling native americans watermelons because "theyre both red and soft haha", then we need to stop calling the melon a watermelon. Its a slippery slope.

I cant even imagine what Jews who survived the Holocaust must think of the left snowflake Idiots of Today. Those braindead Fools dont even understand what it means to be a Nazi.  Pathetic.