Rather disappointed in LMG and their endorsement of Ring.

[faketruth]

16 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

A few things in this thread I want to comment on and since I'm in my phone quotes won't be with them.

 

The police only have access to your footage if you elect for it or took a promotion from them. There are still audio/video recording laws in place that protect you since this is not really a public place.

 

The person that quoted from their sit that lists all the things they are free to do with your data.... they still need permission to do that... that particular line is to let you know you will never be compensated for anything the video is used for (if you choose to allow it to be accessed publically).

 

Now the truth is that with most of these cloud surveillance systems you gain an extra layer of keeping that video safe, but also might sacrifice some potential privacy by doing so. It is a balance unfortunately. Doesn't mean it is a bad thing or a reason for concern.

 

to start with, having camera to protect you&your property is a good incentive imo - but do take a look at the link:

https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/surveillance-technologies/should-you-buy-ring-doorbell-camera

https://www.wired.com/story/ring-surveillance-suburbs/

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/460689-police-use-of-ring-doorbell-cameras-poor-ethics-or-public-good

https://theintercept.com/2019/02/14/amazon-ring-police-surveillance/

Quote

Now the truth is that with most of these cloud surveillance systems you gain an extra layer of keeping that video safe, but also might sacrifice some potential privacy by doing so. It is a balance unfortunately. Doesn't mean it is a bad thing or a reason for concern.

sure, extra layer of protection to keep that footage from tampering is good - but yeah pretty much having to sacrifice privacy is not a bad thing or reason for concern especially if you have nothing to hide right?

 

the issue is that even if you rejected request, the footage still ends up can be obtained by the police simply by using legally binding request - again, even after you reject/ignore it - so whats the point anyway the wording that "if you choose not to share it" ? why dont they just remove that and say: "any footage is available for the law enforcement to view since you are using our ring product."

Quote

Now let me tell you another fun story. A coworker of mine got his door kicked in during the day and was robbed pretty bad. His neighbor on the other side of the street had a smart/camera doorbell and surveillance system (not sure if ring). The police had video of the people that robbed him and the plate information of the vehicle they used.

 

They were able to recover most of the stolen merchandise minus a few items and cash, they also found 3/4 guys and locked them up. The last one was actually a minor which they also located, but nothing really happened to him other than I think his parents had to pay a small sum to my co-worker and their kid got like 6 months probation.

 

Now NONE of that would have been possible if not for the cameras his neighbor had. The truth is nothing is going to stop someone that really wants in your house, but all of these devices offer a solid deterrence and make it much more appealing to just hit another house or neighborhood that is less protected.

Good to hear if they managed to catch&recover your coworker stuff even if not all, but the main argument is not about REJECTING surveillance camera to protect your home and everyone - but having it turned into a mass surveillance system made by a company just to monitor everything but also under control of law enforcement that is totally in control no matter what you said about rejecting the request.. i guess you prefer to be under fully survived neighborhood to begin with, why dont you start living on CN and have everything on your life under monitoring by the gov/company? because that is one step into the direction of this combination anyway with RING. which is why non centralized surveillance system is another argument why its far better than this kind of centralized system by ring+the pd.

 

but then again like i said before, a lot of people dont care if they are getting under surveillance or not anyway - this is simply the matter that ppl find its vexing that their favorite ltt is promoting ring that is already under scrutiny since the start of this year but by now there is nothing from ltt to explain their stance/reasoning on this up to now. esp if considering what happen with tunnelbear for example: where they explain why they changed to PIA in the end after mcafee bought tunnelbear.

[AngryBeaver]

5 hours ago, faketruth said:

Snip.

For the record they can take legal means to get access to a closed loop security system. If you want to make it unlikely they get access to anything you don't want them to see then set a short retention window.

 

Btw, anytime you are out of your phone you are probably being surveilled in some way. This can be intersection cameras, shopping provider cameras, atms, etc... heck you are being surveilled if your neighbor has any time of system.

 

That being said there is one exception here that does hurt privacy. If they have an employee observing video to "improve" their system and they see something illegal then they are legally required to report it.

 

Now on the other. The police do not have a record of who exactly has a ring and where they are located unless you elect to share that information. It also isn't in rings best interest to just turn over video without a proper warrant as it would actually push people away from their service.

 

In the ene there is just a lot of unwarranted paranoia around this service. Then again it is 100% the users choice if they want it or not and there are plenty of other options even cloud based ones.

[faketruth]

5 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

For the record they can take legal means to get access to a closed loop security system. If you want to make it unlikely they get access to anything you don't want them to see then set a short retention window.

 

Btw, anytime you are out of your phone you are probably being surveilled in some way. This can be intersection cameras, shopping provider cameras, atms, etc... heck you are being surveilled if your neighbor has any time of system.

 

That being said there is one exception here that does hurt privacy. If they have an employee observing video to "improve" their system and they see something illegal then they are legally required to report it.

 

Now on the other. The police do not have a record of who exactly has a ring and where they are located unless you elect to share that information. It also isn't in rings best interest to just turn over video without a proper warrant as it would actually push people away from their service.

 

In the ene there is just a lot of unwarranted paranoia around this service. Then again it is 100% the users choice if they want it or not and there are plenty of other options even cloud based ones.

at this point i doubt you even checked the link i gave before, since all of the point of not having mass centralized surveillance itself are all mentioned the same way on the links. and on top of it, you can try search "ring employee" and there you have it, the thing you just said(if you even bother to do it).

 

and again, if you even read some of the link i gave before, it also point on how the police can get details on location simply by discerning the area they requested and who has installed ring itself to begin with(and yeah its on one of the link).

 

anyway im done here - ill just see how ltt and others will react from now on if ppl even care about it at all starting now

 

cheers

[Donut417]

My question to people woudl be, do you have a cellular phone? If so, im sure some government instution is hacked in getting data. Personally Id be less concerned with Law Enforcment and more concenred with hackers breaking in. Many of these IOT devices have shit security built in. Also I think it depends on which Ring products your talking about. If you talking door bells, who the fuck cares if the police have footage of outside your home. Thats the point of having these cameras, is if someone breaks the law in front of them, you give the footage to law enforcment and they break their foot off in the criminals ass. 

 

Truthfuly if you want something to be fearful about, think about how the NSA or CIA is using the data from these devices. Thats a bit more on the scary part. 

[faketruth]

On 10/7/2019 at 12:20 AM, Donut417 said:

My question to people woudl be, do you have a cellular phone? If so, im sure some government instution is hacked in getting data. Personally Id be less concerned with Law Enforcment and more concenred with hackers breaking in. Many of these IOT devices have shit security built in. Also I think it depends on which Ring products your talking about. If you talking door bells, who the fuck cares if the police have footage of outside your home. Thats the point of having these cameras, is if someone breaks the law in front of them, you give the footage to law enforcment and they break their foot off in the criminals ass. 

 

Truthfuly if you want something to be fearful about, think about how the NSA or CIA is using the data from these devices. Thats a bit more on the scary part. 

that "dont you have phone" argument is so familiar... are you from blizzard? /s

 

at the moment ill just try to put a small and final spotlight to this, since nobody cares and ltt team doesnt care enough to address this issue raised by ppl who watched their vids and arguing any further doesnt feel like it will make ltt team to answer the question anyway.

 

the final nail in the coffin for me is when i saw that tree planting fundraising vid, when they finish it with ring doorbell - it might be unintentional from their side, but for me its an attempt to tie ring doorbell indirectly to something positive and to paint ring with positive light. so who knows what their intention is, but that is what i saw on that video - it might be different for other ppl, so ill just mention it here.

 

in the end, my conclusion is that ltt team doesnt care or dont want to address this just like how blizzard or any other kind of company out there when their fans/user are raising question of "why did they do this" - pretty sure you all have seen what blizzard/nba/riot done so far. its almost 2 month since i raised this question with nick on the reddit and still no reply at all even now.

 

cheers and hf

[RoseLuck462]

Are they any cases of abuse?

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, RoseLuck462 said:

Are they any cases of abuse?

For ring Im not sure. But I have heard of smart thermostats being hacked. I have heard of smart speakers being hacked. Most of these devices have shit for security. Though if you invest a little in your network, and use equipment that supports VLAN's then you can at least stop them from peintrating in to really senstive stuff on your home network. 

[Donut417]

4 hours ago, faketruth said:

argument is so familiar

Know what else is familar. The dumb asses that thing WiFi causes cancer. And you know what? They have a fucking Microwave which outputs more RF radation than the router. 

 

Fact is if your device is connected to the internet  can be hacked. It just takes time thats all. I dont care how secure they said the device is, eventually it will be hacked. Think about all the big corporations that get hacked, Equifax, Nord VPN or how about the Pentagon geting hacked. WPA 2 with AES was hacked and it was supposed to be very secure. At least thats what we were told. 

 

Also LMG is trying to pay the bills. If you dont like ring, then dont buy their products. Dont blame the LMG crew for trying to pay the bills and the staffs salary.