X570 Additional 4 Pin Power Connector

[W!LD]

I've assembled the part list for my first PC on PCPartPicker  and I made the decision to go with X570 instead of B450, because I'm not comfortable updating the BIOS of a mobo. However, upon adding the X570 board to my list after removing the MSI Tomahawk I had originally chosen, a notice popped up that there was an additional 4 pin power connector on this new mobo, one which my PSU doesn't support. Will my PC be ok without having a cable for this connector, or should I upgrade my power supply? Replies appreciated  

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

[Fasauceome]

4 minutes ago, W!LD said:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

unfortunately this isn't the permalink, we can't see the parts list

 

as for the error, it doesn't matter if you have the extra 4 pin, it won't make a difference.

[Streetguru]

4 minutes ago, W!LD said:

 

You only need the 8 pin connection, the extra is marketing BS

Also post the link from the top left of the list
 

 

[W!LD]

Thanks for the replies, I was wondering because build guides never seem to mention them.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TWjHfH

 

Here's the link, sorry I'm a noob lmao

[Streetguru]

19 minutes ago, W!LD said:

 

Pretty much the entire thing could be improved, hang on...

[Streetguru]

21 minutes ago, W!LD said:

Thanks for the replies, I was wondering because build guides never seem to mention them.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TWjHfH

 

Here's the link, sorry I'm a noob lmao

Aftermarket RX 5700s should be coming back into stock shortly, should be some models already in stock. It just has more useful features like it's upscaling to cheat out more performance.

What's your monitor resolution/refresh rate?
 

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Tn4MfH

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($193.89 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Scythe FUMA 2 51.17 CFM CPU Cooler  ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X570-P ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($166.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: HP EX920 512 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($64.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 8 GB PULSE Video Card  ($359.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master MasterBox MB511 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Cooler Master MWE Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply  ($74.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1050.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-09-05 18:52 EDT-0400

[Daniel644]

why not spend a touch more on the PSU selection and get a PSU that has 2 8 Pin CPU Power connections, I know the RM850x does and I think the v2 RM750x does, most higher tier PSU's should and a PSU isn't where you want to cheap out in a build, odds are that PSU is gonna outlast the rest of the machine.

[Falkentyne]

4 hours ago, Streetguru said:

You only need the 8 pin connection, the extra is marketing BS

Also post the link from the top left of the list
 

 

BS.  It's not marketing BS.

Plugging in the extra PSU helps stabilize the CPU input +12v from fluctuation.

A low +12v means less stable vcore.

[Streetguru]

1 minute ago, Falkentyne said:

BS.  It's not marketing BS.

Plugging in the extra PSU helps stabilize the CPU input +12v from fluctuation.

A low +12v means less stable vcore.

It does nothing, MAYBE if you run a 16 core on LN2 it will be useful, but a single 8 pin can already do like 480W or something like that.

[Marinatall_Ironside]

1 hour ago, Falkentyne said:

BS.  It's not marketing BS.

Plugging in the extra PSU helps stabilize the CPU input +12v from fluctuation.

A low +12v means less stable vcore.

Can anybody else reproduce this? Otherwise I plan on running just the 8-pin connector for practicality's sake for my next build, which I plan on slamming in the Ryzen 9 3950X.

[Matteoking4]

Hi

I was facing the same issue recently,
My Z390 Aurus Elite mobo paired with i9900K would not boot with just one connector.

 

I bought the Corsair RM750 which has 2x 2x4 CPU connectors and this solved the issue.

I would go for a PSU that has this.

 

Kr,

 

Mat

[Falkentyne]

14 hours ago, Streetguru said:

It does nothing, MAYBE if you run a 16 core on LN2 it will be useful, but a single 8 pin can already do like 480W or something like that.

Try reading my post again.

Or maybe since you're too lazy to do that I'll spell it out for you.

One EPS +12v:  9900k + Aorus Master:
CPU VR VIN: 11.713-11.814v

 

Two EPS +12v: 11.844v-11.938v.

 

Gee, sherlock, what's better?

 

Do you even know what a MOSfet is and how it operates?
if you did, you would understand why you don't want the +12v line to drop and you wouldn't have even replied to this post with that drek.

The +12v drops because of something called resistance, and the more current you pull through wires, the more resistance is created.  Better aug cables will help against this, but you have to build for the lowest common denominator, not just for $300 + PSU's.

 

I'm going to give you some advice.

Please don't run around sprouting quotes from people like Buildzoid who say "You don't need a second 12v".  Just because he has good hardware and a very nice guy doesn't mean he's right about everything.  Did you know that the original spec for EPS 12v was 235W sustained RMS power?  And NOT 336W (this is what everyone keeps quoting)--336W is the MAXIMUM BURST power allowed.  And now idiots (Yes, IDIOTS) are trying to say that you can push 480W through a single 12v?  Try that --you WILL Fry the power connector.

 

People back in the old days knew far more about power connectors than they do now, when people were frying 4 pin power connectors (even on high quality SEASONIC PSU's) by using a QX9650 on boards that only had a 4 pin, and pulling 165W at load (which would slowly fry the connector), so they decided to get educated and learn about proper ratings.  Now everyone just watches a youtube video or reads some reddit or forum post and thinks they know everything.

 

A more recent issue (not fried connectors) were happening when the r9 290X came out and people were using "combined" dual PCIE connectors that were split into two.  The PSU was fine and could handle it, but the cards were crashing, or would run fine for some years, then eventually would start black screening.  Why?  Because the strain on the connector would degrade it slowly, causing a slow drop in the +12v, down to <11.25v.

 

You really should do your research before you give other people advice.  Sorry if I'm being toxic but someone needs to set their foot down and set people straight.

 

I used to have a page several years ago which had the original ratings but it no longer appears on google (They actually listed the RMS and burst ratings for the 8 pin connector).

[Streetguru]

2 hours ago, Falkentyne said:

 

I have a 1950X, my system doesn't care weather I have the extra 8 pin plugged in.

[Falkentyne]

58 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

I have a 1950X, my system doesn't care weather I have the extra 8 pin plugged in.

This site has the 'absolute max' rating.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html#eps8

 

However it does not have the "RMS" rating.

I'm trying to find what site does, it was supposed to be 225 / 235 watts (RMS is also known as sustained average).  I never bookmarked it back in the day now I'm paying the price.  It was a PSU related site (not sure who ran it).

But the 235W level has been posted by others so it's not out of thin air.

 

But yeah i've seen multiple people claim 400W is safe, because of what buildzoid said.  He didn't test it long term--the cable will either melt or degrade seriously at that level.

[BabaGanuche]

From the perspective of the wires most PSU cables are 18 gauge which are rated generally for 10 amps and that are 4 pairs in a 8 pin cable so that is 480 watts for the wires. I was able to find the socket on digikey and found a spec sheet. The one I found is rated for 9 amps. Which is 432 watts at 12 volts.

 

So no you do not need the extra 4 or 8 pin for any AM4 CPUs with normal cooling as there is now way not make them draw 300+ watts

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex/1724470208/WM17932-ND/5405403

https://www.molex.com/webdocs/datasheets/pdf/en-us/1724470208_PCB_HEADERS.pdf

Edited September 7, 2019 by BabaGanuche
Missing Link

[bearlion]

Idiot here, I have a 8 Pin extension that came with my case (8+4) would running this this for the CPU and the 4 pin split from the same run do more damage than running a separate 8 pin (4+4) and leaving out the one 4 pin?

[SOlidwire]

On 9/6/2019 at 1:36 PM, Falkentyne said:

Try reading my post again.

Or maybe since you're too lazy to do that I'll spell it out for you.

One EPS +12v:  9900k + Aorus Master:
CPU VR VIN: 11.713-11.814v

 

Two EPS +12v: 11.844v-11.938v.

 

Gee, sherlock, what's better?

 

Do you even know what a MOSfet is and how it operates?
if you did, you would understand why you don't want the +12v line to drop and you wouldn't have even replied to this post with that drek.

The +12v drops because of something called resistance, and the more current you pull through wires, the more resistance is created.  Better aug cables will help against this, but you have to build for the lowest common denominator, not just for $300 + PSU's.

 

I'm going to give you some advice.

Please don't run around sprouting quotes from people like Buildzoid who say "You don't need a second 12v".  Just because he has good hardware and a very nice guy doesn't mean he's right about everything.  Did you know that the original spec for EPS 12v was 235W sustained RMS power?  And NOT 336W (this is what everyone keeps quoting)--336W is the MAXIMUM BURST power allowed.  And now idiots (Yes, IDIOTS) are trying to say that you can push 480W through a single 12v?  Try that --you WILL Fry the power connector.

 

People back in the old days knew far more about power connectors than they do now, when people were frying 4 pin power connectors (even on high quality SEASONIC PSU's) by using a QX9650 on boards that only had a 4 pin, and pulling 165W at load (which would slowly fry the connector), so they decided to get educated and learn about proper ratings.  Now everyone just watches a youtube video or reads some reddit or forum post and thinks they know everything.

 

A more recent issue (not fried connectors) were happening when the r9 290X came out and people were using "combined" dual PCIE connectors that were split into two.  The PSU was fine and could handle it, but the cards were crashing, or would run fine for some years, then eventually would start black screening.  Why?  Because the strain on the connector would degrade it slowly, causing a slow drop in the +12v, down to <11.25v.

 

You really should do your research before you give other people advice.  Sorry if I'm being toxic but someone needs to set their foot down and set people straight.

 

I used to have a page several years ago which had the original ratings but it no longer appears on google (They actually listed the RMS and burst ratings for the 8 pin connector).

Quite honestly I didn't know any of this until you edumacated us... Besides I respect a bit of passion. Thank you. 

Besides... it just made NO SENSE that an additional 4 pin connector was a "marketing feature"

[Falkentyne]

Sorry I was a bit annoyed when I posted this and I admit I was toxic.

It is true that the original spec for 8 pin EPS was 235W sustained, but I can no longer find the original spec article for this anywhere on the internet now.

I posted a link back in 2016 directly to it (sometime between August and October 2016) as I remember precisely what I was doing when I found that link.  And 336W was max burst.

 

But now with all this talk about Aug ratings and ports and stuff, I really have no idea anymore.  Considering I personally burned my 4 pin 12v cable by putting 165W into it on my QX9650 as the P5WDH only had a 4 pin connector, I like to play things safe regardless if a current 8 pin can take 165W * 2 without burning.  Keep in mind this didn't happen overnight.  It took more than a year of 24/7 operation for it to happen, and it was on a PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750W, IIRC.

[mts007]

So what did you end up doing about the PSU?

[PhilDrudd]

On 9/6/2019 at 7:36 PM, Falkentyne said:

Try reading my post again.

Or maybe since you're too lazy to do that I'll spell it out for you.

One EPS +12v:  9900k + Aorus Master:
CPU VR VIN: 11.713-11.814v

 

Two EPS +12v: 11.844v-11.938v.

 

Gee, sherlock, what's better?

 

Do you even know what a MOSfet is and how it operates?
if you did, you would understand why you don't want the +12v line to drop and you wouldn't have even replied to this post with that drek.

The +12v drops because of something called resistance, and the more current you pull through wires, the more resistance is created.  Better aug cables will help against this, but you have to build for the lowest common denominator, not just for $300 + PSU's.

 

I'm going to give you some advice.

Please don't run around sprouting quotes from people like Buildzoid who say "You don't need a second 12v".  Just because he has good hardware and a very nice guy doesn't mean he's right about everything.  Did you know that the original spec for EPS 12v was 235W sustained RMS power?  And NOT 336W (this is what everyone keeps quoting)--336W is the MAXIMUM BURST power allowed.  And now idiots (Yes, IDIOTS) are trying to say that you can push 480W through a single 12v?  Try that --you WILL Fry the power connector.

 

People back in the old days knew far more about power connectors than they do now, when people were frying 4 pin power connectors (even on high quality SEASONIC PSU's) by using a QX9650 on boards that only had a 4 pin, and pulling 165W at load (which would slowly fry the connector), so they decided to get educated and learn about proper ratings.  Now everyone just watches a youtube video or reads some reddit or forum post and thinks they know everything.

 

A more recent issue (not fried connectors) were happening when the r9 290X came out and people were using "combined" dual PCIE connectors that were split into two.  The PSU was fine and could handle it, but the cards were crashing, or would run fine for some years, then eventually would start black screening.  Why?  Because the strain on the connector would degrade it slowly, causing a slow drop in the +12v, down to <11.25v.

 

You really should do your research before you give other people advice.  Sorry if I'm being toxic but someone needs to set their foot down and set people straight.

 

I used to have a page several years ago which had the original ratings but it no longer appears on google (They actually listed the RMS and burst ratings for the 8 pin connector).

 

 

hey dude I just stumbled upon your comment here and it looks like you know your stuff. I want to buy a new PC and I stumbled upon this problem with the 8 pin 4 pin PSU and Motherboard connectors. Basically same thing is with me now ,IDK what to do now. let's say I visually have a new rig (all the parts) but I don't know what to do since the motherboard I want has the 4 pin connector but the PSU I want (semi modular) only has the 8 pin connector so what now with the 4pin connector I can't let the PSU run through only one (8 pin) connector I feel it's going to damage my rig lol. Sorry if I sound noobish man I was heavy into PC but I don't have that passion anymore and I want to buy a new PC because (I want to play some very graphics demanding games,I want to make music on my pc,edit videos etc.). MAYBE, MAYBE I will get the liquid cooling system for my PC and that's why I'm planning to buy a pretty big case but that's another story. Could you please reply to me? Much appreciated.

[Falkentyne]

34 minutes ago, PhilDrudd said:

 

 

hey dude I just stumbled upon your comment here and it looks like you know your stuff. I want to buy a new PC and I stumbled upon this problem with the 8 pin 4 pin PSU and Motherboard connectors. Basically same thing is with me now ,IDK what to do now. let's say I visually have a new rig (all the parts) but I don't know what to do since the motherboard I want has the 4 pin connector but the PSU I want (semi modular) only has the 8 pin connector so what now with the 4pin connector I can't let the PSU run through only one (8 pin) connector I feel it's going to damage my rig lol. Sorry if I sound noobish man I was heavy into PC but I don't have that passion anymore and I want to buy a new PC because (I want to play some very graphics demanding games,I want to make music on my pc,edit videos etc.). MAYBE, MAYBE I will get the liquid cooling system for my PC and that's why I'm planning to buy a pretty big case but that's another story. Could you please reply to me? Much appreciated.

No harm in connecting both if it won't hurt your cable management, otherwise it's fine to leave the 4 pin off.

OEM's are designing cables and connectors to greatly exceed 235W for awhile now, but my comment above was based on keeping the input voltage from fluctuating (which no one ever seems to test for).  One thing to consider is to monitor your EPS CPU +12v reading in HWinfo64 with one connector and then with both connectors.  Even if a single connector can pull 350W by itself, there can still sometimes be an increase in resistance causing the CPU +12v value to drop if only one connector is used.  And I personally don't like input voltages dropping.  In my own testing, this value decreasing below 11.50v can cause stability issues and loss of max OC potential, requiring higher vcore.  For GPU's, the PCIE version of this on the GPU's VRM monitoring can cause random black screens if the PCIE drops below 11.50v.

[Guest]

Wow all that for a 3600 (non X) chip. Aren't those 65w tdp at max p-state. Do they even exceed 100w at load turbo?

 

Good information though!