Programming languages and their use

[Mira Yurizaki]

52 minutes ago, Hi P said:

I wasn't expecting this I thought Java was one of the most widely used languages out there, is Kotlin taking over?

If we went by GitHub statistics, Java is pretty much alive and well in use: https://hackernoon.com/8-top-programming-languages-frameworks-of-2019-2f08d2d21a1

 

Though I wonder how much Android has to do with this 

[wasab]

On 6/1/2019 at 3:38 PM, Bramimond said:

Snip

All java code are backward compatible. As long as you install modern version of oracle JDK and code with the things that come with it, jvm shouldn't even be an issue. 

 

Java is slow? Have you see how much slower JavaScript is?

https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/javascript.html

 

It's not even a contest. I still don't understand why people think java is slow in this days and age while much slower scripting langauge like python and JavaScript do not seem to suffer from the same stigma. 

 

Java is more intuitive than C or C++ but it is by no means the easiest language for beginner. Python gets that crown by far. And no, it is not the reason why big company use java. Frankly speaking if you just want to make a simple website/web application, java is way overkill. 

Enterprise java is usually used to do something large scale and heavy like communicating to powerful mainframe computers and large scale servers which it excels at because java literally runs on over 2 billion devices as oracle like to say. 

 

Edit: nevermind. Turns out java compilier isn't backward compatible

Jvm is backward compatible however so there shouldn't be an issue if you just wish to run a jar file. 

[Dat Guy]

1 hour ago, wasab said:

Java is more intuitive than C or C++

I disagree.

[Bramimond]

2 hours ago, wasab said:

Java is slow? Have you see how much slower JavaScript is?

"This car is slow? Have you seen how much slower walking is?"

 

That question doesn't even make sense.

 

And no, Java isn't backwards compatible. The best advice I can give is to run old Java applications inside their own virtual machine to keep everything around them like the applications expect. Otherwise it will fail in hilarious ways when you least expect it.

[Franck]

8 hours ago, Hi P said:

I wasn't expecting this I thought Java was one of the most widely used languages out there, is Kotlin taking over?

It is used still quite a lot. I specially mentioned that this is the case in my domain. This doesn't reflect the average world reality. It was simply a glimpse in my domain at what these languages are used for. School here are about 50/50 teaching Java or C++.

 

For Java i said it nearly only for interfacing with library/api with robots (in my case) most of the time but we also do maintain old business application (usually database entry software) but we never get new project to be created in Java. When we are asked for library we often go with C++ or C# depending if it's platform specific or not, even if the project is in java both interface very well with Java.

[vorticalbox]

On 5/31/2019 at 7:28 PM, wasab said:

C is for low level system programming. Most operating system is written in it. Although at my school, a crazy instructor for an operating system course decides to replace C with Java for some crazy reason. 

 

If a crazy dude comes here and tell you C is good for coding front end website, don't believe him. 

thats because in school you are taught how to drive the car before you learn how the internals work (top-down), learning c means you're doing it from the bottom up which is harder to actually to learn.

 

There is a great book that works this way, bottom up, https://www.bottomupcs.com/

[wasab]

4 hours ago, vorticalbox said:

thats because in school you are taught how to drive the car before you learn how the internals work (top-down), learning c means you're doing it from the bottom up which is harder to actually to learn.

 

There is a great book that works this way, bottom up, https://www.bottomupcs.com/

Yeah? Then how come I had to learn atrocious assembly as a prerequisite? I still don't see a reason to replace c with java. 

 

He's is the only one teaching the course in java. All others are using C. 

[Den15]

On 6/1/2019 at 4:38 PM, Bramimond said:

http://www.stokely.com/lighter.side/stroustrup.html

this seems way too sketchy... shady at least haha

 

Here in Brazil people say Java is the most used one, commercially (is that a word?), followed closely by C.

[wasab]

7 hours ago, Den15 said:

this seems way too sketchy... shady at least haha

 

Here in Brazil people say Java is the most used one, commercially (is that a word?), followed closely by C.

No, that was an April fool joke. 

Stroustrup certainly doesn't talk like that. 

[vorticalbox]

12 hours ago, wasab said:

Yeah? Then how come I had to learn atrocious assembly as a prerequisite? I still don't see a reason to replace c with java. 

 

He's is the only one teaching the course in java. All others are using C. 

Then it's a bad design choice, my cs degree started with c# then slowly moved into assembly, memory management, CPU schedules and the like.

 

Top down.

[Mira Yurizaki]

9 hours ago, vorticalbox said:

Then it's a bad design choice, my cs degree started with c# then slowly moved into assembly, memory management, CPU schedules and the like.

 

Top down.

Funny thing is, I took computer engineering. We started with C, but in first semester of the second year we went way back into the past with designing logic circuits and stuff (on FPGAs, mind you). Though we did general computer/system architecture and assembly as well. It wasn't until the second semester of third year we did anything on the application level.

[Franck]

24 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Funny thing is, I took computer engineering. We started with C, but in first semester of the second year we went way back into the past with designing logic circuits and stuff (on FPGAs, mind you). Though we did general computer/system architecture and assembly as well. It wasn't until the second semester of third year we did anything on the application level.

Me it's was all the same year. I had the 3 different classes :

- VB 6 (actually software programing)

- FGPA (and building our own cpu with stepper motor and lights.) 

- Assembly (5% coding, 95% concept behind it)

 

Semester 2-3 had 1 Software programming class each and correlated class like UI Design etc.

[vorticalbox]

14 hours ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Funny thing is, I took computer engineering. We started with C, but in first semester of the second year we went way back into the past with designing logic circuits and stuff (on FPGAs, mind you). Though we did general computer/system architecture and assembly as well. It wasn't until the second semester of third year we did anything on the application level.

 

14 hours ago, Franck said:

Me it's was all the same year. I had the 3 different classes :

- VB 6 (actually software programing)

- FGPA (and building our own cpu with stepper motor and lights.) 

- Assembly (5% coding, 95% concept behind it)

 

Semester 2-3 had 1 Software programming class each and correlated class like UI Design etc.

Your two courses sound much better than mine, though I actually took software engineering for 2 years then moved into 3rd year for my degree,

 

So I have almost complete software development for the first two.

 

My degree ended up being underwhelming, my units were.

 

Eithics, database design, web services (making a soap service), application security and computer design which ended up being CPU scheduling, how the internals of a CPU and memory management (theory).

 

The exam ended up most being answering what order the tasks would finished based in X schedule.

[Franck]

6 hours ago, vorticalbox said:

 

Your two courses sound much better than mine, though I actually took software engineering for 2 years then moved into 3rd year for my degree,

 

So I have almost complete software development for the first two.

 

My degree ended up being underwhelming, my units were.

 

Eithics, database design, web services (making a soap service), application security and computer design which ended up being CPU scheduling, how the internals of a CPU and memory management (theory).

 

The exam ended up most being answering what order the tasks would finished based in X schedule.

Universities must be heavy workload where you live. Here all the classes i mentioned and those you listed we get that before going to university. Must be very intense all those class plus university level stuff.

[wasab]

22 hours ago, vorticalbox said:

 

 

Eithics, database design, web services (making a soap service), application security and computer design which ended up being CPU scheduling, how the internals of a CPU and memory management (theory).

Don't you think ethics class is a joke class? I need to take it as well and the course materials sounds completely riddiculous. 

[Franck]

9 hours ago, wasab said:

Don't you think ethics class is a joke class? I need to take it as well and the course materials sounds completely riddiculous. 

it's a joke to make it a 100+ hours class. There is at most 10 hours of material in there. It should simply be 4 small conferences of 2.5 hours through the semester. Lots of classes should have been that. History of computer architecture is another one. That class i had 2 actual class per week at 2.5 hours each and one of those week the subject was how laser disks works. common. It's a freaking laser burning the plastic. It's max 1 hour not 5 hours of content.

 

It's sad that you might not have gotten your degree as a programmer because you didn't remember how laserdisc worked or why a SCSI drive was "good". But that's another subject.

 

That being said, most of those ridiculous class should be packed into a single shorter class or small conference to add to your knowledge in the domain.

[Yamoto42]

 

17 minutes ago, Franck said:

That being said, most of those ridiculous class should be packed into a single shorter class or small conference to add to your knowledge in the domain.

Where I went to college, they combined it and a few other topics with a combined CS/EE design/practicum 2 semester sequence.

They would assign group projects projects, and have a few presentations throughout the 2 semester sequence.   The lectures though, started with basic design procedures (ie business cases and design docs), after a few weeks of that the lectures went into other rarely covered topics like ethics, patents and legal stuff, etc.

[wasab]

9 minutes ago, Yamoto42 said:

 

Where I went to college, they combined it and a few other topics with a combined CS/EE design/practicum 2 semester sequence.

They would assign group projects projects, and have a few presentations throughout the 2 semester sequence.   The lectures though, started with basic design procedures (ie business cases and design docs), after a few weeks of that the lectures went into other rarely covered topics like ethics, patents and legal stuff, etc.

My lectuerer treated the class as if it is a kindergarten show and tell. He spends more time talking about himself and random stories than actually teaching anything. There is not much to teach to be honest. Materials were mostly about ethical hacking, privacy, and stuffs. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

3 hours ago, Franck said:

That being said, most of those ridiculous class should be packed into a single shorter class or small conference to add to your knowledge in the domain.

My ethics course was a one hour seminar for all of the engineers and they made us take a simple quiz at the end.

[Hi P]

4 hours ago, Franck said:

It's sad that you might not have gotten your degree as a programmer because you didn't remember how laserdisc worked or why a SCSI drive was "good". But that's another subject.

This got me thinking if there's stuff I don't need to work as a programmer, yet they teach me in CS

 

Like physics, do we I need to pay close attention to such class? 

 

[MyName13]

So, what did you all have in your first year?In my country (and most of countries around me), first year is pretty much this:

-fundamentals of electrical engineering (electrostatics, direct currents, electromagnetics and alternating currents, this is a standard practice as electronics, computer, telecommunications, automation and software engineers are all thrown together in the first year)

-physics

-lots of mathematics (not on my university unfortunately)

-basics of programming in C

-some random "soft skills" subject

-fundamentals of computing (computer organization, digital logic / digital electronics)

[Hi P]

3 minutes ago, MyName13 said:

So, what did you all have in your first year?In my country (and most of countries around me), first year is pretty much this:

-fundamentals of electrical engineering (electrostatics, direct currents, electromagnetics and alternating currents, this is a standard practice as electronics, computer, telecommunications, automation and software engineers are all thrown together in the first year)

-physics

-lots of mathematics (not on my university unfortunately)

-basics of programming in C

-some random "soft skills" subject

-fundamentals of computing (computer organization, digital logic / digital electronics)

Sounds about the same, plus algorithms, data structures, comp history, C# besides C, etc

[MyName13]

4 minutes ago, Hi P said:

Sounds about the same, plus algorithms, data structures, comp history, C# besides C, etc

Are you somewhere from southeastern Europe?

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 hour ago, Hi P said:

This got me thinking if there's stuff I don't need to work as a programmer, yet they teach me in CS

 

Like physics, do we I need to pay close attention to such class?

If you plan on working closer to metal, an appreciation for electronics and the physics behind it will give you an easier time with your EE colleagues.

 

Though really, I haven't used any of my physics or EE knowledge to any extensive degree at work. And what physics I did have to use was totally unrelated to electronics.

[wasab]

2 hours ago, Hi P said:

This got me thinking if there's stuff I don't need to work as a programmer, yet they teach me in CS

 

Like physics, do we I need to pay close attention to such class? 

 

You do need to know physics if you are gonna work on a physics engine in game programming or scientific simulation.