Han Solo Vs. James T. Kirk

[486DX Win3.1]

On 3/12/2019 at 4:02 PM, MarbleHornets said:

You are right there, because Solo was promoted to General 

 

I have to let my star wars bias take over here. Han was best imperial pilot that went through the academy despite having no prior training, served front lines in the Imperial Calvary during literal trench warfare, was able to escape from multiple assassins, bounty hunters, and Imperial Navel forces despite only having a co-pilot; not an entire crew to his disposable, became a General in the Rebellion, lead his own team of special forces from the front lines, created his own legitimate and well know shipping company after the way, and was married to a Galactic Senator of the New Rebellion. I still have to tip my hat towards him. 

Those who would follow Kirk just because he had "more formal training," or more in the ways of a polished leader are seriously discounting the abilities of Solo. Solo made the choice NOT to be an imperial pilot, maybe even officer, to choose the greater good. This is where my argument kicks in, although the Federation is not "evil" technically, it is a large political organization that has all the potential to become very bloated and evil given the right circumstances. Kirk is their agent, he's alot more involved in politics than Han is, who, although was promoted to General, was never really portrayed as much of a political figure.

 

Solo could have easily been promoted to a high position among the imperial ranks if that was his attitude.

[486DX Win3.1]

On 3/29/2019 at 7:52 AM, Sauron said:

The Enterprise in TOS was one of the largest and most heavily armed vessels in the Federation. The reason it was sent on an exploration mission was that 1) it could be considered able to defend itself from most known threats and 2) it allowed for vast amounts of resources and personnel on board and could travel for months or even years without visiting a friendly outpost. Some of their enemies actually point it out in some episodes, trying to discredit Kirk because he came to a negotiation with a massive battleship.

Yeah, I guess this could be evidence to the contrary. It just depends on what movies or episodes you are watching, BUT, in general, it seems the Enterprise variants with Kirk at the helm were not like "battleships" of the Empire, just built for organized warfare on a grand scale.

[486DX Win3.1]

Let me tell you something here. I know that if I were gonna go cruzin for some space hoe's on some distant galactic outpost, James T Kirk seems to Pull a Lotta Space A$$ his way. I would be sure to benefit from some of his leftovers or just his halo effect. 

 

On the other hand, Han Solo did seduce the one and only Princess of the F$ckin' Alderan Space republic, so..... u can't argue with that.

[486DX Win3.1]

On 3/13/2019 at 8:30 AM, dalekphalm said:

None of what you just said invalidates any of my points.

 

Also Kirk didn't trick Khan into self destructing. Khan did that as a suicide attack to try and take Kirk out with him. He knew his ship was wrecked, half his crew were dead, and he himself was likely dying - they took a hit to the bridge, not many ways of coming out of that a victor.

 

Kirk outsmarted Khan. And that was mostly because Kirk has experience in Space Naval Warfare, something Khan has never done before. Khan was obviously far more intelligent than Kirk, but he thought in terms of 2D strategies, because that's the kind of warfare he has experience in from back on Earth during the Eugenics Wars.

I'd say that's pretty much a wash at best. The Star Wars galaxy (especially during the time Solo is alive) is simply a more dangerous place compared to the Federation.

We've basically never seen Kirk pilot a small craft (except for possibly in the Kelvin verse?), so while he's likely an excellent Starship pilot, as I previously said, if it was fighter craft or small craft (small freighters, etc), Solo is at a huge advantage here.

 

I'd say that at best, Kirk and Solo are equal pilots, if not Solo being the obvious superior pilot.

Hyperdrive is exponentially faster than Warp Speed, so yes, that definitely gives Solo another advantage - though I prefer to assume they're using the same or similar technology when comparing them. I assume you were being hyperbolic with "Teleport around", but just in case people are less familiar with Star Wars, Hyperdrive does not utilize teleportation.

How do we know this? It DOES SEEM like when comparing their time traveling around, that hyperdrive is in fact faster than Warp drive. If so, how can we explain the other seemingly "more" advanced tech in the Trek universe such as the food "tea earl grey hot" machine and the transporter beam?

[486DX Win3.1]

On 3/13/2019 at 8:30 AM, dalekphalm said:

None of what you just said invalidates any of my points.

 

Also Kirk didn't trick Khan into self destructing. Khan did that as a suicide attack to try and take Kirk out with him. He knew his ship was wrecked, half his crew were dead, and he himself was likely dying - they took a hit to the bridge, not many ways of coming out of that a victor.

 

Kirk outsmarted Khan. And that was mostly because Kirk has experience in Space Naval Warfare, something Khan has never done before. Khan was obviously far more intelligent than Kirk, but he thought in terms of 2D strategies, because that's the kind of warfare he has experience in from back on Earth during the Eugenics Wars.

I'd say that's pretty much a wash at best. The Star Wars galaxy (especially during the time Solo is alive) is simply a more dangerous place compared to the Federation.

We've basically never seen Kirk pilot a small craft (except for possibly in the Kelvin verse?), so while he's likely an excellent Starship pilot, as I previously said, if it was fighter craft or small craft (small freighters, etc), Solo is at a huge advantage here.

 

I'd say that at best, Kirk and Solo are equal pilots, if not Solo being the obvious superior pilot.

Hyperdrive is exponentially faster than Warp Speed, so yes, that definitely gives Solo another advantage - though I prefer to assume they're using the same or similar technology when comparing them. I assume you were being hyperbolic with "Teleport around", but just in case people are less familiar with Star Wars, Hyperdrive does not utilize teleportation.

 

Kirk isn't even flying the thing!! He sits in a chair and yapps at Sulu

[486DX Win3.1]

On 3/12/2019 at 11:58 AM, Sauron said:

Han Solo pilots a small ship with one other crew member. Kirk is in charge of a massive battle cruiser with hundreds of personnel on board. Draw your own conclusions.

"Battle Cruiser" You call that Frisbee with legs welded to the back a "battle cruiser?????"

[dalekphalm]

6 hours ago, 486DX Win3.1 said:

How do we know this? It DOES SEEM like when comparing their time traveling around, that hyperdrive is in fact faster than Warp drive. If so, how can we explain the other seemingly "more" advanced tech in the Trek universe such as the food "tea earl grey hot" machine and the transporter beam?

It's Canon that the Star Wars galaxy is very similar in size and overall shape to the Milky Way - specifically, a diameter of 120,000 light years.

 

The Milky Way has a radius of 52,850 light years, which makes it's diameter 105,700 light years - a little smaller.

 

From there, we've been given Canon examples of hyperspace travel times between various points in the SW Galaxy - that allows you to calculate approximate speeds.

 

There are some issues with that - particularly newer Disney Canon messing with established travel times - and substantially increasing travel speeds in some specific instances. But even if we take the more conservative Legends figures, Hyperspace is still so much incredibly faster compared to Warp Speed.

 

How do we explain the tech differences for other things such as Transport and the replicator? Stagnancy within the SW Galaxy, I think. We can see from various Canon media that technology within the SW Galaxy does not change very quickly - remember that this is a galactic civilization that has been around for thousands of years - longer even than the Vulcans have been in space.

5 hours ago, 486DX Win3.1 said:

"Battle Cruiser" You call that Frisbee with legs welded to the back a "battle cruiser?????"

Technically it's a "Class-1 Heavy Cruiser", rather than specifically a "battle cruiser" - but yes, within the Star Trek Universe - particularly within the era at which Kirk captains the original Enterprise (The "Enterprise naught"), the Constitution Class is considered one of the largest and heavily armed ships (dedicated warship or otherwise) within the known galaxy (particularly Alpha and Beta quadrants). Not many ship designs in Star Trek actually make sense - not that many ship designs in Star Wars make a lot of sense either.

[PineyCreek]

Kirk could overact his way out of anything.  We saw Solo's acting chops in "We're fine, we're all fine here now ...thank you...How are you?"

[SpaceGhostC2C]

Are you asking as a general appointing a captain, or as someone who is going to serve under the chosen captain?

 

[Sauron]

12 hours ago, 486DX Win3.1 said:

"Battle Cruiser" You call that Frisbee with legs welded to the back a "battle cruiser?????"

We had this exact conversation on this exact thread... a year ago.

[Donut417]

On 3/12/2019 at 11:17 AM, 486DX Win3.1 said:

  Who is the better Captain Here- Really???

James Holden all the way. #Expanse