Han Solo Vs. James T. Kirk

[486DX Win3.1]

  Who is the better Captain Here- Really???

[486DX Win3.1]

Everyone Knows that Kirk would get the Nvidia Card...

 

Solo would get some old AMD cards in Crossfire

[Worstcaster]

Neither Picard all the way.

 

That being said between Solo and Kirk, I would have to go with Kirk.  He has formal command training and is successfully managing a much larger crew (Hard to judge Han's delegation skills, when the crew consists of him and Chewbacca).  

[Mister Woof]

Kirk.

 

But Sisko is probably best.

[kilgore_T]

what a ridiculous question....kirk pwns han solo all  the way

 

 

lol great question 

[Drak3]

1 hour ago, Worstcaster said:

Neither Picard all the way.

Picard is a pussy.

 

1 hour ago, kilgore_T said:

what a ridiculous question....kirk pwns han solo all  the way

 

 

lol great question 

But Solo has a Wookiee.

[WereCatf]

1 hour ago, 486DX Win3.1 said:

  Who is the better Captain Here- Really???

Captain Batman:

[Sauron]

Han Solo pilots a small ship with one other crew member. Kirk is in charge of a massive battle cruiser with hundreds of personnel on board. Draw your own conclusions.

[Tristerin]

13 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Han Solo pilots a small ship with one other crew member. Kirk is in charge of a massive battle cruiser with hundreds of personnel on board. Draw your own conclusions.

Since the question is Captaining skills - I cannot correlate the more subordinates creates the best Captain - I work for, and have witnessed, plenty of shit management in my days.

 

Now not to say Kirk is a shit captain.  I do know one thing however, about their Captaining skills.

 

Solo never got his ship blown up, destroyed, obliterated or lost a Crew Member.  He only got his ship stolen, but had re-acquired it back a few times previously when mission critical issues happened - carbonite anyone - his ability to command his vessel is huge.

 

Kirk loses a ship every movie with his inability to outpace his opponents, and countless die under his Command.

 

Just got to look at the numbers.  There are higher odds for each crew member under you for something to become a negative number - however when Solo's slate is ZERO and Kirks is...riddled with deaths and lost ships...well.

 

Whose the better Captain?  HAN SOLO!  Kirk would be a 1 off Captain, if he didn't have the whole of the Federation bank account backing his failures or mishaps.

 

 

[MarbleHornets]

You do have to remember that Solo was actually promoted to the rank of General and lead the Pathfinders, which was an elite military group within the rebellion. So yes, on his ship he tended to only have one other personnel to worry about, but within the Rebellion, he was an efficient leader.

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Since the question is Captaining skills - I cannot correlate the more subordinates creates the best Captain - I work for, and have witnessed, plenty of shit management in my days.

The point is that Solo is barely a captain to begin with, and definitely not someone you'd put in charge of anything larger than the Falcon (at least in the OT movies). He is the 'captain' only because he owns the ship. Kirk has been recognized by starfleet as capable enough to fulfill a very high responsibility position - the baseline for him is much, much higher regardless of how good you consider his performance.

6 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Solo never got his ship blown up, destroyed, obliterated or lost a Crew Member.  He only got his ship stolen, but had re-acquired it back a few times previously when mission critical issues happened - carbonite anyone - his ability to command his vessel is huge.

Piloting skills are not the same as being a good captain - besides, given the big differences in how space travel and spaceships work in the two universes it's hard to make a fair comparison in that sense. In the movies he only gets his ship back (and gets out alive) from the Death Star because one of his passengers had superpowers and sacrificed himself to let them escape.

 

Even when Luke begs him to fight with the rebellion he only mentions his skills as a pilot, not as a commander.

15 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Just got to look at the numbers.  There are higher odds for each crew member under you for something to become a negative number - however when Solo's slate is ZERO and Kirks is...riddled with deaths and lost ships...well.

The scale is incomparable - the Falcon doesn't even have sub-ships to lose in a mission and if more than a crew member dies there won't be anyone left to pilot it... furthermore, the Enterprise had to fight massive odds (sometimes supernatural) on its own and with no chance of retreat or getting reinforcements. The Falcon didn't singlehandedly take down any star destroyers and its greatest achievement (with Solo on board) was scratching the paint on Vader's fighter with surprise on their side.

 

The extent of preventing deaths in Solo's case was "don't get hit in a dogfight with TIE fighters". Not really an option in Kirk's case where the ship is the size of a town and can't hide or land anywhere. It's like saying Akhbar was a bad general because he lost ships in a deathmatch with a planet destroying, moon sized battlestation.

[Tristerin]

13 minutes ago, Sauron said:

The point is that Solo is barely a captain to begin with, and definitely not someone you'd put in charge of anything larger than the Falcon (at least in the OT movies). He is the 'captain' only because he owns the ship. Kirk has been recognized by starfleet as capable enough to fulfill a very high responsibility position - the baseline for him is much, much higher regardless of how good you consider his performance.

 

Piloting skills are not the same as being a good captain - besides, given the big differences in how space travel and spaceships work in the two universes it's hard to make a fair comparison in that sense. In the movies he only gets his ship back (and gets out alive) from the Death Star because one of his passengers had superpowers and sacrificed himself to let them escape.

 

Even when Luke begs him to fight with the rebellion he only mentions his skills as a pilot, not as a commander.

The scale is incomparable - the Falcon doesn't even have sub-ships to lose in a mission and if more than a crew member dies there won't be anyone left to pilot it... furthermore, the Enterprise had to fight massive odds (sometimes supernatural) on its own and with no chance of retreat or getting reinforcements. The Falcon didn't singlehandedly take down any star destroyers and its greatest achievement (with Solo on board) was scratching the paint on Vader's fighter with surprise on their side.

 

The extent of preventing deaths in Solo's case was "don't get hit in a dogfight with TIE fighters". Not really an option in Kirk's case where the ship is the size of a town and can't hide or land anywhere. It's like saying Akhbar was a bad general because he lost ships in a deathmatch with a planet destroying, moon sized battlestation.

The likelihood of my death under James T. Kirk aboard any iteration of the Enterprise is much higher than a death under Han Solo aboard the single iteration of the Millennium Falcon.  A scuttle captain is still a captain, and doesn't mean he isn't a better captain than someone driving a cruise liner.  Gotta know the seas, and its my opinion that Solo was a MUCH more versed Captain in the ways of the realms than Kirk ever was.  He had to be educated every where he went.

 

I agree on your numbers vs numbers of course, as the chance of failures increase - but the delta between 0 and 1 is still 100% difference.

 

We cant talk about Supernatural - The Force - also Kirk loses the Enterprise every time.  That sounds to be like Nepotism within Star Fleet

 

All speculation, but my final thought in this post on why Solo is best - Solo would kill Kirk in a 1 on 1 battle, whereas Kirk would set phasers to Stun.....lol

[Acid Panda]

Space Balls

[Sauron]

23 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

We cant talk about Supernatural - The Force - also Kirk loses the Enterprise every time.  That sounds to be like Nepotism within Star Fleet

Wait... what version of Star Trek TOS have you been watching? TOS Kirk only loses the Enterprise once and that's when he intentionally blows it up in the movies.

26 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Solo was a MUCH more versed Captain in the ways of the realms than Kirk ever was.  He had to be educated every where he went.

Kirk was specifically in an exploration mission to go where no man has gone before - of course he'd be learning new stuff all the time, that was literally the point of his mission. The universe is too different to compare knowledge of the galaxy between the two. Star Wars assumes you can go anywhere in the galaxy in a matter of a few weeks at most and that routes to most inhabited planets have been charted out - definitely not so with Star Trek. Solo is like a fisherman who knows every mediterranean sea port, Kirk on the other hand is basically sailing out into the ocean with no idea of what's on the other side.

[Tristerin]

40 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Wait... what version of Star Trek TOS have you been watching? TOS Kirk only loses the Enterprise once and that's when he intentionally blows it up in the movies.

Kirk was specifically in an exploration mission to go where no man has gone before - of course he'd be learning new stuff all the time, that was literally the point of his mission. The universe is too different to compare knowledge of the galaxy between the two. Star Wars assumes you can go anywhere in the galaxy in a matter of a few weeks at most and that routes to most inhabited planets have been charted out - definitely not so with Star Trek. Solo is like a fisherman who knows every mediterranean sea port, Kirk on the other hand is basically sailing out into the ocean with no idea of what's on the other side.

 

All the Star Treks involving Kirk = relevant to this discussion

 

Star Trek III Search for Spock - destroyed once

Next Generation - Twice destroyed (18 more times in 1992 storyline)

etc etc etc

 

What we CAN compare is the character itself.  Those are the "facts" we get to work with whether they are true/real or not 

 

So lets assume a few things - The Galaxy size is the Galaxy size (EDIT - I should have said Universe here) - infinite is easiest for us to agree on I would think.  Or they are both within the same size bounding box for size - either way lets agree on one or the other.  

 

Given that its either finite, or infinite - the lack of general knowledge Kirk had given the seemingly un-exhaustible resources from Federation whereas Solo (the fisherman) was more wise, and wordly and had a higher IQ on the Universe (should have said Galaxy here) within their unique realm in every situation presented to us in Star Wars.  He rarely didn't know something, or have an idea of what was up.  Kirk, at all times seemed to be flying blind.  No man has gone before is a lie - everywhere they went something, someone, some entity existed.  And each of these peoples, things, entities had a past that oddly...got tied to the story line.  So its either a lack of book keeping on the Federations part - or Solo has a Mind Palace that traps all information.  This is a great skill in a Captain.

 

Accepting insane missions - they both win here - except I have to give the cup to Solo again - he challenged what essentially would be the Federation, and won.

 

Edit - Star Wars took place in ONE galaxy.  Not the universe just one Galaxy far far away.

 

Love the discussion as you can tell if a side has to be picked, Im a Star Wars fan

[Tristerin]

@Sauron after you read my response above - I have a question (and didn't want to keep editing) did Kirk travel to multiple Galaxies or is the Multiverse within the Trek fandom considered larger?

 

Now that Ive come to a conclusion that Solo only knew of his Galaxy likely...Im wondering if Kirk was a captain to the Universe travel.  VERY large delta between the two 

[Mutoh]

2 hours ago, Tristerin said:

Since the question is Captaining skills - I cannot correlate the more subordinates creates the best Captain - I work for, and have witnessed, plenty of shit management in my days.

 

Now not to say Kirk is a shit captain.  I do know one thing however, about their Captaining skills.

 

Solo never got his ship blown up, destroyed, obliterated or lost a Crew Member.  He only got his ship stolen, but had re-acquired it back a few times previously when mission critical issues happened - carbonite anyone - his ability to command his vessel is huge.

 

Kirk loses a ship every movie with his inability to outpace his opponents, and countless die under his Command.

 

Just got to look at the numbers.  There are higher odds for each crew member under you for something to become a negative number - however when Solo's slate is ZERO and Kirks is...riddled with deaths and lost ships...well.

 

Whose the better Captain?  HAN SOLO!  Kirk would be a 1 off Captain, if he didn't have the whole of the Federation bank account backing his failures or mishaps.

 

 

Kirk lost the Enterprise once over the Genesis planet so IDK where you're getting 'Every movie Kirk wrecks a ship'

 

 

The Enterprise is a constitution class ship that is much older than most of the ships they come across. The fact that Kirk could routinely beat opponents that outclassed him should speak volumes and considering he isn't a smuggler trying to avoid combat in the first place, I would say it's not fair to say his record is worse than Hans. If Solo was put in half as many front line situations as the enterprise, Han would've been bantha fodder before he could even tell Obiwan that the force is hokey. 

 

 

 

The Federation also doesn't need bank accounts considering currency was in disuse in the 22rd century within the Federation. Those are matters for Ferengi, not Starfleet Captains. 

 

 

Live long and prosper. :)

[Tristerin]

1 minute ago, Mutoh said:

Kirk lost the Enterprise once over the Genesis planet so IDK where you're getting 'Every movie Kirk wrecks a ship'

 

 

The Enterprise is a constitution class ship that is much older than most of the ships they come across. The fact that Kirk could routinely beat opponents that outclassed him should speak volumes and considering he isn't a smuggler trying to avoid combat in the first place, I would say it's not fair to say his record is worse than Hans. If Solo was put in half as many front line situations as the enterprise, Han would've been bantha fodder before he could even tell Obiwan that the force is hokey. 

 

 

 

The Federation also doesn't need bank accounts considering currency was in disuse in the 22rd century within the Federation. Those are matters for Ferengi, not Starfleet Captains. 

 

 

Live long and prosper.

How many variations of the Enterprise are their?  Im not a Trekky by any means so I only can google that its been destroyed in his hands what seems like quite a few times

 

The Enterprise (and its variations) have been known as the most powerful in the Starfleet am I not correct at this?  So he has the best, while a Smuggler faces the best and wins.  Kirk always wins...with the best (and loses people and ships) whereas Solo always wins...with the biggest hunk of junk in the galaxy.  

 

Bank accounts - I just googled and...the Federation can create anything with their replicators and Infinite Energy Im just now reading - so once again, a HUGE upperhand against a common Captain, beating what would be the culmination of the Federation in the Galaxy of Star Wars

 

 

Aaaaarrrrhhhhhhgggggggg (wookie I guess bwuahahaha)

[Tristerin]

@Mutoh @Sauron heres where I will concede my opinion on Captaincy - what would trump Solo over Kirk to me, would be just how traveled he is as a Captain (as they are both successful Captains, my bias Star Wars opinion is what Im arguing here ).  I know he has wormholed places, but Solo has only been in 1 Galaxy Captaining.  How many Galaxies has Kirk captained in?

[Mutoh]

1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

How many variations of the Enterprise are their?  Im not a Trekky by any means so I only can google that its been destroyed in his hands what seems like quite a few times

 

The Enterprise (and its variations) have been known as the most powerful in the Starfleet am I not correct at this?  So he has the best, while a Smuggler faces the best and wins.  Kirk always wins...with the best (and loses people and ships) whereas Solo always wins...with the biggest hunk of junk in the galaxy.  

 

Bank accounts - I just googled and...the Federation can create anything with their replicators and Infinite Energy Im just now reading - so once again, a HUGE upperhand against a common Captain, beating what would be the culmination of the Federation in the Galaxy of Star Wars

 

 

Aaaaarrrrhhhhhhgggggggg (wookie I guess bwuahahaha)

I feel like if you're having this debate, you should be familiar with the source. It would only be logical.

 

 

Kirk only captained the Enterprise NCC-1701 (and eventually the refitted version) and the Enterprise-A. That means all of the TOS series (the 5 year mission) the Enterprise survived and was eventually refit for the movies and lasted until the 3rd when it was destroyed. He then captained the Enterprise-A. The  Excelsior class Enterprise-B he was only a guest on and that ship was captained by John Harriman in 2293. By the time the ambassador class Enterprise-C was commissioned and in service, it was 2344 which is well past the age Kirk could live to. That ship was captained by Rachel Garrett before it was destroyed by Klingons and replaced by the Enterprise-D as you know was captained by Jean-Luc Picard. Kirk captained 2 enterprises and both of them at the time were superseded by bigger ships.

 

 

A 1970 Mustang is a flagship vehicle for Ford. Do you expect it to perform like a 2019? No? So why are we assuming it's the best? Constitution classes don't just get automatically destroyed when the Excelsior class gets produced. Either way, how good the ship is irrelevant to how good the captain is. The captain chooses and follows through with the action and that's the same no matter the size of the ship. 

 

Also what battle does the Falcon take part in where it's the sole ship doing the work? Both Death Star assaults happened with the entire Republic fleet. It's essentially a fly in a swarm. The Enterprise often gets sent as the only ship in dangerous situations and is usually outgunned. 

 

Not everything is solved in combat either. Kirk has ended wars, signed treaties and has changed the Federation for the better. Solo was an opportunistic smuggler that had no intention to fight and mostly did it for ass and cash. Also left an offspring that ended up killing him so...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tristerin]

4 minutes ago, Mutoh said:

I feel like if you're having this debate, you should be familiar with the source. It would only be logical.

 

 

Kirk only captained the Enterprise NCC-1701 (and eventually the refitted version) and the Enterprise-A. That means all of the TOS series (the 5 year mission) the Enterprise survived and was eventually refit for the movies and lasted until the 3rd when it was destroyed. He then captained the Enterprise-A. The  Excelsior class Enterprise-B he was only a guest on and that ship was captained by John Harriman in 2293. By the time the ambassador class Enterprise-C was commissioned and in service, it was 2344 which is well past the age Kirk could live to. That ship was captained by Rachel Garrett before it was destroyed by Klingons and replaced by the Enterprise-D as you know was captained by Jean-Luc Picard. Kirk captained 2 enterprises and both of them at the time were superseded by bigger ships.

 

 

A 1970 Mustang is a flagship vehicle for Ford. Do you expect it to perform like a 2019? No? So why are we assuming it's the best? Constitution classes don't just get automatically destroyed when the Excelsior class gets produced. Either way, how good the ship is irrelevant to how good the captain is. The captain chooses and follows through with the action and that's the same no matter the size of the ship. 

 

Also what battle does the Falcon take part in where it's the sole ship doing the work? Both Death Star assaults happened with the entire Republic fleet. It's essentially a fly in a swarm. The Enterprise often gets sent as the only ship in dangerous situations and is usually outgunned. 

 

Not everything is solved in combat either. Kirk has ended wars, signed treaties and has changed the Federation for the better. Solo was an opportunistic smuggler that had no intention to fight and mostly did it for ass and cash. Also left an offspring that ended up killing him so...

 

 

 

 

 

 

But whose the better Captain

 

(kidding Im only here to defend Solo completely because I prefer Star Wars) 

[Mutoh]

The better Captain is the most decorated one.

 

 

 

Fun fact, only one of those captains was promoted to Admiral as well.

 

 

 

Also you can't prefer something if you haven't even watched any of it! 

[MarbleHornets]

2 minutes ago, Mutoh said:

The better Captain is the most decorated one.

 

 

 

Fun fact, only one of those captains was promoted to Admiral as well.

 

 

 

Also you can't prefer something if you haven't even watched any of it! 

You are right there, because Solo was promoted to General 

 

I have to let my star wars bias take over here. Han was best imperial pilot that went through the academy despite having no prior training, served front lines in the Imperial Calvary during literal trench warfare, was able to escape from multiple assassins, bounty hunters, and Imperial Navel forces despite only having a co-pilot; not an entire crew to his disposable, became a General in the Rebellion, lead his own team of special forces from the front lines, created his own legitimate and well know shipping company after the way, and was married to a Galactic Senator of the New Rebellion. I still have to tip my hat towards him. 

[Mister Woof]

Kirk is a better diplomat, problem solver, people feeler, and humanitarian. He also is sworn to his duty and moreso those under his command. He's not even chaotic good; he's essentially flat neutral good.

 

Solo is a pirate who sometimes helps you if he chooses to. Solo is chaotic good at best, neutral evil at worst. 

[Mutoh]

15 minutes ago, MarbleHornets said:

You are right there, because Solo was promoted to General 

 

I have to let my star wars bias take over here. Han was best imperial pilot that went through the academy despite having no prior training, served front lines in the Imperial Calvary during literal trench warfare, was able to escape from multiple assassins, bounty hunters, and Imperial Navel forces despite only having a co-pilot; not an entire crew to his disposable, became a General in the Rebellion, lead his own team of special forces from the front lines, created his own legitimate and well know shipping company after the way, and was married to a Galactic Senator of the New Rebellion. I still have to tip my hat towards him. 

Admiral and General are more or less similar ranks. Kirk was also Chief of Starfleet Ops which is a very high ranking position. Solo was field promoted for Endor and didnt do anything worthwhile for the resistance after he ran away from his kid problems to smuggle again for how many decades?

 

 

 

 

I know who I would trust my life with and it isnt the womanizing smuggler with commitment problems and an aging DL-44