Water cooling mobo

[Ravendarat]

How many of you guys actually WC the mobo? I see the kits for it but is it really necessary? What instances would you find it to be a big advantage to do this as opposed to just using the stock cooling?

[W-L]

11 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

How many of you guys actually WC the mobo? I see the kits for it but is it really necessary? What instances would you find it to be a big advantage to do this as opposed to just using the stock cooling?

The common choice nowadays are monoblocks that cover both the CPU and VRM area, however you don't really get a performance boost. In most situations you see little to no performance benefit other than running them cooler and providing the potential for better stability if you are doing very high overclocks. 

 

VRM or chipset watercooling isn't necessary given there is already adequate cooling in place and are just for aesthetic reasons, similar to watercooling RAM. 

[corrado33]

32 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

How many of you guys actually WC the mobo? I see the kits for it but is it really necessary? What instances would you find it to be a big advantage to do this as opposed to just using the stock cooling?

Watercooling is NEVER necessary. It does NOT outperform air cooling, and it is only slightly more quiet. (Although I never hear my air cooled rig either...)

[Ravendarat]

2 hours ago, corrado33 said:

Watercooling is NEVER necessary. It does NOT outperform air cooling, and it is only slightly more quiet. (Although I never hear my air cooled rig either...)

Bad choice of phrasing on my part, when I said necessary I didn't mean necessary to water cool, I just meant necessary to upgrade the cooling on but that question has been answered, thank you guys very much

[Benjeh]

On 2/18/2019 at 11:02 PM, Ravendarat said:

How many of you guys actually WC the mobo? I see the kits for it but is it really necessary? What instances would you find it to be a big advantage to do this as opposed to just using the stock cooling?

The last motherboard I watercooled was my 990FX Sabertooth and I did it because the VRM got so hot it affected the stability of my overclock, I also didn't want 2x90mm fans screaming away while I watched youtube or whatever.

 

On 2/18/2019 at 11:35 PM, corrado33 said:

Watercooling is NEVER necessary. It does NOT outperform air cooling, and it is only slightly more quiet. (Although I never hear my air cooled rig either...)

I very very very much disagree with you, as someone who overclocks his parts as far as he possibly can Air cooling cannot keep up, I have literally lost a motherboard and a CPU to air cooling failing to keep my components cool, watercooling has never struggled unless you are talking about AIO coolers which aren't worth their weight in cost.

 

On 2/18/2019 at 11:18 PM, W-L said:

The common choice nowadays are monoblocks that cover both the CPU and VRM area, however you don't really get a performance boost. In most situations you see little to no performance benefit other than running them cooler and providing the potential for better stability if you are doing very high overclocks. 

 

VRM or chipset watercooling isn't necessary given there is already adequate cooling in place and are just for aesthetic reasons, similar to watercooling RAM. 

Disagree, I've lost components on a 990fx chipset due to inadequate cooling and that was with fans pointed directly onto the heatsink, once I watercooled the VRM and NB I didn't have a failure and I was able to lower my Vcore and gain the 150mhz i needed for 5ghz. 

[corrado33]

7 hours ago, Benjeh said:

I very very very much disagree with you, as someone who overclocks his parts as far as he possibly can Air cooling cannot keep up, I have literally lost a motherboard and a CPU to air cooling failing to keep my components cool, watercooling has never struggled unless you are talking about AIO coolers which aren't worth their weight in cost.

I mean... you're not exactly the normal usage case right? Unless you REALLY want to squeeze that last 0.1 GHz out of your CPU water cooling is never necessary. 

[Benjeh]

15 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

I mean... you're not exactly the normal usage case right? Unless you REALLY want to squeeze that last 0.1 GHz out of your CPU water cooling is never necessary. 

See the thing with blanket statements is they're never quite right. You said CPU watercooling is never necessary, I disagree, why? Because of several factors.

1. Watercooling has better thermal dissipation and that's a fact that cannot be argued.
2. Not all cases are wide enough to fit a DH-15 and several case fans in order to get that heat moved.
3. Watercooling is quieter, within reason. This factor depends on the fans used (speed, static pressure etc) and the Rad used (overal rad space, fin design and density, rad thickness, how many fans used etc
4. probably more but its 3:50am and my brain is starting to shut down.

Watercooling doesn't outperform air cooling has got to be the biggest lie you've mentioned in your statement, there is literally no way in hell air will out perform watercooling in noise to degrees C and i've had this argument with an older gentleman before on another forum who despised watercooling with a burning passion, he would rather of had a screaming machine on his desk than a quite cooler one like mine but hey, if you're already going deaf and love the faster dust build up then hey what am I to say to that?

But Ben, what if i'm not overclocking I don't need water right? Nvidia GPU boost is out of the box overclocking, sorry, but it is, so using water in this application will net you a nice performance boost, it will also stop the card down clocking during long periods of use. Fact.

[Mick Naughty]

I use it one two of my boards. Looks better and performs better. Had a cracked heat pipe so it was easier and cheaper to get an ek block. 

 

I dont push my systems to the max but it’s better to have them properly cooled as they get minimal airflow now running efficiently. Unlike a system on air. 

[corrado33]

17 hours ago, Benjeh said:

See the thing with blanket statements is they're never quite right. You said CPU watercooling is never necessary, I disagree, why? Because of several factors.

1. Watercooling has better thermal dissipation and that's a fact that cannot be argued.
2. Not all cases are wide enough to fit a DH-15 and several case fans in order to get that heat moved.
3. Watercooling is quieter, within reason. This factor depends on the fans used (speed, static pressure etc) and the Rad used (overal rad space, fin design and density, rad thickness, how many fans used etc
4. probably more but its 3:50am and my brain is starting to shut down.

Watercooling doesn't outperform air cooling has got to be the biggest lie you've mentioned in your statement, there is literally no way in hell air will out perform watercooling in noise to degrees C and i've had this argument with an older gentleman before on another forum who despised watercooling with a burning passion, he would rather of had a screaming machine on his desk than a quite cooler one like mine but hey, if you're already going deaf and love the faster dust build up then hey what am I to say to that?

But Ben, what if i'm not overclocking I don't need water right? Nvidia GPU boost is out of the box overclocking, sorry, but it is, so using water in this application will net you a nice performance boost, it will also stop the card down clocking during long periods of use. Fact.

1. The DH-15 outperforms or equals any watercooling loop with less than or equal to a 240mm rad. It's been tested. Go look at the cooler database over on the air cooling forum. 

2. If the case isn't big enough to fit a DH-15, it's unlikely to be big enough to fit enough rads to equal the cooling. You would either need an high end, expensive 240 mm rad or larger. 

3. It IS quieter, that's about all it has over aircooling. That said, the DH-15 with nice noctua fans are pretty quiet. I never notice mine. Now, if you have your computer up on your desk right beside your face, then sure, go with watercooling. 

 

You forgot to mention the various downsides of watercooling.

 

1.  It's water.... inside your computer. One leak and you ruin your gpu, PSU, and possibly MOBO. 
2. It introduces a "single point of failure" into your system (aka the pump.) Pump fails while the computer is unattended and rendering or folding? Your computer overheats and shuts down (provided you have overheat protection turned on.) On most large air coolers, you have two fans. One fails? No big deal, you still have the other. If they both fail? Well you likely still have airflow throughout your case so you'll still be fine. You still have a massive passive heatsink on your CPU and that WILL keep your computer from overheating. 
3. Cleaning. It's recommended to completely drain your system and replace the fluid/clean the blocks every year, at least. No thanks. I'll pass. If you don't, you risk a clog or general reduced performance over time. I'd rather not have required, pain in the ass, maintenance on my computer. Sure, dust will get into an air cooled system, but that can be seriously reduced with filters and cleaning is super simple and takes all of 2 minutes. Plus, dust still gets in water cooled systems as well.
4. Expense. A watercooling setup is much more expensive than an air cooled setup when considering price/performance. If you get into actual good looking water cooling loops (custom loops) the expense is doubled or more. 

For the record, my DH-15s have been plenty to OC my 6600k, 6700k, and QX 9650 to their max capacity just fine, even at "high" voltages. ~1.35V.

 

 

 

[Mick Naughty]

Water won’t do anything to the pc. Maybe once it’s picked up enough ions. I’ve had every component covered in fluid at one point. Even dumped the res onto the psu while gaming. Had fluid between the cpu and pins while getting into windows several times to trouble shoot before I noticed. 

 

Being cheap isnt safe. That’s about it. All three of my current rigs all on water and no issues. Doubt I’ll ever have a system on air again. Isn’t worth the noise and lack of performance. 

[Daniel644]

On 2/19/2019 at 10:41 PM, corrado33 said:

I mean... you're not exactly the normal usage case right? Unless you REALLY want to squeeze that last 0.1 GHz out of your CPU water cooling is never necessary. 

there are more then a few Ryzen Motherboards that have crap VRM's and watercooling them will give them a MUCH MUCH LONGER usable lifespan. it's not always about that last .1 Ghz, it's about the longterm lifespan of the parts.

[Benjeh]

20 hours ago, corrado33 said:

1. The DH-15 outperforms or equals any watercooling loop with less than or equal to a 240mm rad. It's been tested. Go look at the cooler database over on the air cooling forum. Highly doubt it was done correctly then

2. If the case isn't big enough to fit a DH-15, it's unlikely to be big enough to fit enough rads to equal the cooling. You would either need an high end, expensive 240 mm rad or larger. Highly doubt it

3. It IS quieter, that's about all it has over aircooling. That said, the DH-15 with nice noctua fans are pretty quiet. I never notice mine. Now, if you have your computer up on your desk right beside your face, then sure, go with watercooling. Flat out lie, Sorry but here's something you keep doing with your blanket statements, you flip flop between custom cooling and AIO, 240 AIO the fans do not need to be as fast as the air cooler due to voodoo magic/science Water will get rid of more heat than air.

 

You forgot to mention the various downsides of watercooling.

OH DIS GUN B GUD

1.  It's water.... inside your computer. One leak and you ruin your gpu, PSU, and possibly MOBO. I'm actually going to go on the record and say it (99% of watercooling failures are cause by user error. Before You even think about putting water near your PC, You can pressureise the custom loop with air and see if you have a leak. 15mins later, needle hasn't moved? You're golden.
2. It introduces a "single point of failure" into your system (aka the pump.) Pump fails while the computer is unattended and rendering or folding? Your computer overheats and shuts down (provided you have overheat protection turned on.) On most large air coolers, you have two fans. One fails? No big deal, you still have the other. If they both fail? Well you likely still have airflow throughout your case so you'll still be fine. You still have a massive passive heatsink on your CPU and that WILL keep your computer from overheating. I've actually seen pump failures on people's systems and they gamed on them, My ex gf did just this, I forgot to turn the pump on, I only noticed 2 days later.
3. Cleaning. It's recommended to completely drain your system and replace the fluid/clean the blocks every year, at least. No thanks. I'll pass. If you don't, you risk a clog or general reduced performance over time. I'd rather not have required, pain in the ass, maintenance on my computer. Sure, dust will get into an air cooled system, but that can be seriously reduced with filters and cleaning is super simple and takes all of 2 minutes. Plus, dust still gets in water cooled systems as well. Unless you're on a tight as anything budget or you've not done your home work, You will have fitted a drain and fill port. Also if you're on air I really hope you clean the dust out of your PC before a 12 month time span mate.... So don't even bother giving me that BS
4. Expense. A watercooling setup is much more expensive than an air cooled setup when considering price/performance. If you get into actual good looking water cooling loops (custom loops) the expense is doubled or more. AIO coolers are well priced now, most of them can be cheaper than the DH15, A custom loop can be made with 2nd hand parts which drastically reduces the price but people with custom loops are actually going for silence and performance and bling.

For the record, my DH-15s have been plenty to OC my 6600k, 6700k, and QX 9650 to their max capacity just fine, even at "high" voltages. ~1.35V.

 

1.35 is not high voltage. See pic. *****

 

 

I've replied to the points in red bold.

 

****

 

Please show me an air cooler keeping 1.5v cool in a heated bedroom, I'll wait! Max core 90c.

[Ravendarat]

I’ve really started something here lol. I do appreciate the comments though and the two sides of the argument being presented. I was already definitely set on custom loop with soft tubes as the actual creation of it really interests me. I probably will pass on the Mobo at first because I’m really not overclocking that heavy (Ryzen 2700X at 4.2 mhz with 1.36v, 2080ti with a 700 mem boost and 75 on the clock) but I might go to 3rd gen when it comes out and at that point I might look at Mobo cooling and hard lines if I change the cpu. Thanks guys

[Mick Naughty]

Nah, go all in. Don’t play around. Nothing triggers people more than building your own pc your way. If you don’t follow a youtubers advise to the “T” it isn’t right. 

[Benjeh]

11 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

I’ve really started something here lol. I do appreciate the comments though and the two sides of the argument being presented. I was already definitely set on custom loop with soft tubes as the actual creation of it really interests me. I probably will pass on the Mobo at first because I’m really not overclocking that heavy (Ryzen 2700X at 4.2 mhz with 1.36v, 2080ti with a 700 mem boost and 75 on the clock) but I might go to 3rd gen when it comes out and at that point I might look at Mobo cooling and hard lines if I change the cpu. Thanks guys

I've not researched Ryzen all to well so not sure if they learned from the mistakes made when FX chips came out with poor VRMs but I will say if there are people out there who have noticed VRM issues I would highly suggest a VRM capable mono block or some universal ones to help keep things under wraps. You didn't really start anything, what happens in these threads is you get 2 types of users, Air heads and Watercoolers, as this is the watercooling section i'm unsure as to why a devout air head has come into here to preach the uses of air.

 

At the end of the day it's your rig, you have every right to do what you want to do, for me I watercool because it looks peng and it keeps my pc silent and my temps lower than Kim Ks standards.

Disclaimer: Nothing against air cooling, just it's not for me due to noise and lack of cooling for my given tasks, Don't @ me fam.

[corrado33]

10 hours ago, Benjeh said:

You forgot to mention the various downsides of watercooling.

OH DIS GUN B GUD

1.  It's water.... inside your computer. One leak and you ruin your gpu, PSU, and possibly MOBO. I'm actually going to go on the record and say it (99% of watercooling failures are cause by user error. Before You even think about putting water near your PC, You can pressureise the custom loop with air and see if you have a leak. 15mins later, needle hasn't moved? You're golden.
2. It introduces a "single point of failure" into your system (aka the pump.) Pump fails while the computer is unattended and rendering or folding? Your computer overheats and shuts down (provided you have overheat protection turned on.) On most large air coolers, you have two fans. One fails? No big deal, you still have the other. If they both fail? Well you likely still have airflow throughout your case so you'll still be fine. You still have a massive passive heatsink on your CPU and that WILL keep your computer from overheating. I've actually seen pump failures on people's systems and they gamed on them, My ex gf did just this, I forgot to turn the pump on, I only noticed 2 days later.
3. Cleaning. It's recommended to completely drain your system and replace the fluid/clean the blocks every year, at least. No thanks. I'll pass. If you don't, you risk a clog or general reduced performance over time. I'd rather not have required, pain in the ass, maintenance on my computer. Sure, dust will get into an air cooled system, but that can be seriously reduced with filters and cleaning is super simple and takes all of 2 minutes. Plus, dust still gets in water cooled systems as well. Unless you're on a tight as anything budget or you've not done your home work, You will have fitted a drain and fill port. Also if you're on air I really hope you clean the dust out of your PC before a 12 month time span mate.... So don't even bother giving me that BS
4. Expense. A watercooling setup is much more expensive than an air cooled setup when considering price/performance. If you get into actual good looking water cooling loops (custom loops) the expense is doubled or more. AIO coolers are well priced now, most of them can be cheaper than the DH15, A custom loop can be made with 2nd hand parts which drastically reduces the price but people with custom loops are actually going for silence and performance and bling.

For the record, my DH-15s have been plenty to OC my 6600k, 6700k, and QX 9650 to their max capacity just fine, even at "high" voltages. ~1.35V.

 

1.35 is not high voltage. See pic. *****

Ah, the water cooling defender. 

 

Here, I'll make it easy for you. Noctua DH-15 vs 360mm rad, done by a reputable youtuber. Good luck finding an AIO that'll perform better than the custom loop build by the literal patron saint of watercooling himself...

 

 

I'm not going to edit the quote, so I'll just respond with another list.

 

1. Doesn't matter if it's user error. If it fails, it fails. You ruin parts. Period. Do you REALLY.... REALLY think people are pressurizing their loops to test for leaks? No. Maybe the most crazy 0.01% of custom loop creators, but then you can't really argue that as mainstream can you?

2. So you're agreeing with me? There have been plenty of videos where linus or jayz has turned the pump off just to watch the cpu temps skyrocket immediately. Must have been thermal throttling like mad to keep the computer running.

3. Uhm... have you read the threads around here at all? Who ISN'T on a tight budget when building their PC? Regardless, my original point still stands. There is more maintenance and more annoying maintenance associated with a water cooling system. Again, for an air system it's as easy as *Open side panel, move a swiffer duster around for a few seconds, and done. Alternatively, use canned air and be done just as quick." In a properly air cooled case most of the dust will be caught by the filters. And again, in a watercooled system you STILL have to remove the dust that gets in there. So anything to do with the watercooling part is EXTRA. Maybe every 2 years or so take the fans out and do a thorough clean of them, but that's it. 

4. Show me an AIO that outperforms the DH-15 for less money? Yeah, I didn't think so. And you're going to argue used vs new with me? Ok then, good luck with your used ass pumps which will definitely fail within the year, I mean just look at linus's desk build and the pump there. Used air cooling parts are much.... much.... much more reliable than used watercooling parts. (And you can also buy used air cooling parts to you know.... The last DH-15 I bought I got for $50 CAD)

 

Yeah, 1.48V is not even close to the norm for 99% of overclockers out there. Almost ever single OCing guide will tell you to go no higher than 1.35V for normal operation, at least on skylake and skylake derivative chips. Not to mention that you are definitely shortening the lifespan of your CPU, even IF the heat is getting removed adequately.

 

What did the extra 0.13V get you? Another 0.1 GHz? I'm running my 6700k at 1.3 V at 4.85 GHz, and it barely touches 70 C under stress tests. Again, I see literally no need for watercooling. The extra 0.1 GHz isn't going to give me a noticeable benefit in any program that I'll use, ever. In short, it is never worth running your CPU at a high enough voltage to need a custom waterloop. You won't notice the difference. If you want to go for OCing records, then do exotic cooling. 

 

[Mick Naughty]

Wouldn’t put say as reputable. Same guy that tries to give advice on gaming. More like the guy with an opinion and a following. Just like people with ltt and parroting what ever he says when it’s convenient. 

[Benjeh]

I'm just going to @corrado33 instead of copy pasting. You're defending air cooling in a section of the forum where people are asking about watercooling, what you're doing is equivalent to going to a Liverpool FC fan club meeting and telling them Manchester United is better, can you see how moronic that is?

 

Jay, ahhh good old Jay, because Jay has never skewed his test results to make him look correct in what he's saying or made a mistake before? According to Jay he cooled a cpu and a gpu on one single 240mm rad in a micro case so if we are going purely off a youtuber, he's disproved you. Then you attack my points I made using your bias instead of logic, people do indeed spend 24hrs leak testing vs the 15mins with air from a bicycle pump then again you're sat here telling me you'd rather do things the hard way too so not really much I can say to that. *rolls eyes*

 

You said some other stuff too but I'll be flat out honest with you, I'm bored of this back and forth with the aptly names die hard air head that you are (no insult intended btw, I see air head as a fan of air cooling not someone devoid of logic) the extra volts got my cpu 300mhz over it's voltage wall and allowed me to overclock my uncore too thanks for asking. Also the picture you're referring to the peak voltage was 1.5v and that PC now 4 years old is still running that voltage. I did have it running on 1.6v with a 48hr stress test to see what kind of heat it would kick out using IBT AVX with the hidden extreme test setting which was fun. Doubt your adorable DH15 would of coped with that. I'm glad you get 4.85ghz with 1.35v, mine sadly wouldn't pass any form of stress test or voltage at 4.8ghz. Wounded that I got a poor chip. But hey its just lottery.

 

Anything else you post I will just ignore, its now apparent you believe that science is non existent. 
In review of the video he clearly states water is better so, whats you're point? He's testing over you're previous point about Volts?, why? He lets the air cooler run fans at full speed but limits the vardar fans as he lets the motherboard handle the noctua fans, the min temps on the water compared to the air cooler are actually a full on laughing stock, you mean to tell me air does better when it can't keep min temps lower that water? Also max temps... what? how is air better when the graph says otherwise? He also debunks you as he says the IHS TIM is crap which we all know by now but water can efficiently remove heat batter than air. Backing up what every water cooler will tell you also backing up science.... sorry you believe it's voodoo correct? I DIGRESS... 

 

I just don't understand your points anymore, you're wasting not just my time, but you're own while showing you bias. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavours. Good day sir.