B450 Tomahawk, Good for 2700x or should I find some other board?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

 

...

 

@ears_ears, tell me again about how that's not a thing that happened? It wasn't as bad as the RTX RMA fiasco, but hell yes B350 boards typically had shit power delivery courtesy of garbage VRMs, and they absolutely do run very hot on overclocked Ryzen 7 CPUs.

Bet you didn't know that VRMs are completely unrelated to chipset. Did you even read the link or are you blindly posting with no knowledge of the actual issue at hand? Link if you missed it, and the English version on Google Spreadsheets if you don't want to read a German site.

 

All B450s have the same VRMs as their B350 counterparts, and most X470s have the same VRMs as their B450 counterparts. If they do run hot, do you have a source? 

 

Anyway, we can't generalize for all B350 boards and all B450 boards, there's bound to be bad apples in both chipsets (and the bad apples in both chipsets are the same bad apples because again, both chipsets mirror their VRMs). That's why I linked the B450/X470 VRM tier list above (also applies to B350/X370 because again, the VRMs are the same, they carry over). 

 

Also, I'm all eyes to any source that isn't anecdotal evidence that supports your argument.

[aisle9]

Just now, ears_ears said:

Bet you didn't know that VRMs are completely separate of chipset. Did you even read the link or are you blindly posting with no knowledge of the actual issue at hand?

 

All B450s have the same VRMs as their B350 counterparts, and most X470s have the same VRMs as their B450 counterparts. If they do run hot, do you have a source? 

 

Anyway, we can't generalize for all B350 boards and all B450 boards, there's bound to be bad apples in both chipsets. That's why I linked the B450/X470 VRM tier list above (also applies to B350/X370 because again, the VRMs are the same, they carry over). 

Nope, this is my first day looking at a compooter. Oh, hang on, there's some dust in my power supply. I'm gonna go grab a fork to get it out.

 

Seriously, I quoted someone who said that their B350 blew up due to heat. There were entire threads on LTT about overheating VRMs on B350 boards. There were entire YouTube videos from actual overclockers about how inadequate B350 boards were for an eight-core overclock. I got rid of my B350-F Strix board after seeing how hot the VRMs were running under a very moderate 3.7GHz OC. I'm not going source fishing because I thought we were done with this conversation back in 2017, when the conventional wisdom of "don't overclock a Ryzen 7 on a B350 board and expect to have a board in two years" took hold.

 

No, they're not all the same within chipsets. There were quite a few X370 boards that lifted their power delivery directly from mid-tier B350 boards by the same manufacturer. There were also a select few B350 boards out there with better power delivery, but by and large, attempting to use XFR or run any significant overclock on an eight-core CPU while running a B350 board is going to cause problems down the line. The VRMs could not handle it long term.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, aisle9 said:

No, they're not all the same within chipsets. There were quite a few X370 boards that lifted their power delivery directly from mid-tier B350 boards by the same manufacturer. There were also a select few B350 boards out there with better power delivery, but by and large, attempting to use XFR or run any significant overclock on an eight-core CPU while running a B350 board is going to cause problems down the line. The VRMs could not handle it long term.

Sorry, but you're misunderstanding me and it's probably my fault since I didn't word my argument well. I know that there are bad apples in each chipset, but my point is that if you grab a random B450/x470 and B350/x370 board whose brand and model match up, you're going to find the same VRMs. I wasn't arguing that in a certain chipset the VRMs are the same regardless of model. 

 

Again, sorry for any misunderstandings and I hope this cleared things up. 

[FireEagle244]

Wow, this has gotten interesting. @aisle9 and @ears_ears If its not too much more, I think that I will go with a better board that may or may not overheat. Im looking for a board with nvme m.2 support, over clocking support with the 2700x to a significant extent, and depending on how much more maybe rgb white lightning to match the fans. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, FireEagle244 said:

Wow, this has gotten interesting. @aisle9 and @ears_ears If its not too much more, I think that I will go with a better board that may or may not overheat. Im looking for a board with nvme m.2 support, over clocking support with the 2700x to a significant extent, and depending on how much more maybe rgb white lightning to match the fans. 

Every b450/x470 board has m.2 support with the exception of Biostar's mATX B450 iirc.

 

In case you missed the B450 VRM tier list, here it is again. 

Anything better than the "midrange" block is just diminishing returns, you won't see a big increase in clockspeed (>=0.1ghz) with for example the MSI B450 Tomahawk vs the Asrock X470 Taichi.

 

I'm pretty sure MSI's mystic light has support for white lighting. 

[FireEagle244]

2 minutes ago, ears_ears said:

Every b450/x470 board has m.2 support. 

 

In case you missed the B450 VRM tier list, here it is again. 

 

I'm pretty sure MSI's mystic light has support for white lighting. 

so should I go with one of the midrange-top tier ones if i want to overclock it?

[Guest]

Just now, FireEagle244 said:

so should I go with one of the midrange-top tier ones if i want to overclock it?

Yes, the Tomahawk's a great option.

[lukart]

1 hour ago, aisle9 said:

If the quality of X370 boards carries over to their X470 counterparts, the AsRock Fatal1ty K6 (if that's a Ryzen thing) and Taichi should be golden, as should the ASUS Prime X470 Pro.

That's right, the problem of MSI is their reliability and their bios... not trusting them again after quite few bad ones.

[aisle9]

4 hours ago, FireEagle244 said:

Wow, this has gotten interesting. @aisle9 and @ears_ears If its not too much more, I think that I will go with a better board that may or may not overheat. Im looking for a board with nvme m.2 support, over clocking support with the 2700x to a significant extent, and depending on how much more maybe rgb white lightning to match the fans. 

You get what you pay for. I'll leave it at that. If I could get a board with great power delivery (the ASUS Prime X470-Pro) for $155 or a board with bad power delivery and all the usual MSI BIOS fun (the Tomahawk) for $110, I would happily spend the extra $45 to make sure that the board driving my $300 CPU has power delivery that's actually adequate for said $300 CPU. If the mobo goes pop, it can take the CPU with it. I'll bow out there, as I think I've said everything I can reasonably say. I would not mount a $300 Ryzen 7 on a B450 motherboard, because I don't trust those boards after all I've seen, read and experienced.

[FireEagle244]

1 minute ago, aisle9 said:

You get what you pay for. I'll leave it at that. If I could get a board with great power delivery (the ASUS Prime X470-Pro) for $155 or a board with bad power delivery and all the usual MSI BIOS fun (the Tomahawk) for $110, I would happily spend the extra $45 to make sure that the board driving my $300 CPU has power delivery that's actually adequate for said $300 CPU. If the mobo goes pop, it can take the CPU with it. I'll bow out there, as I think I've said everything I can reasonably say. I would not mount a $300 Ryzen 7 on a B450 motherboard, because I don't trust those boards after all I've seen, read and experienced.

what do you think of the B450 GAMING PRO CARBON AC ATX AM4 Motherboard or is that one bad too?

[aisle9]

3 minutes ago, FireEagle244 said:

what do you think of the B450 GAMING PRO CARBON AC ATX AM4 Motherboard or is that one bad too?

Why? You can get the Prime X470-Pro for the same price, and that's a considerably better board overall from an OEM that's been solid with its AM4 offerings.

[FireEagle244]

Just now, aisle9 said:

Why? You can get the Prime X470-Pro for the same price, and that's a considerably better board overall from an OEM that's been solid with its AM4 offerings.

let me look at the prime x470-pro

[aisle9]

1 minute ago, FireEagle244 said:

let me look at the prime x470-pro

That's going to be my recommendation hands down, or something of similar quality on the X470 chipset. I'm off to bed, happy hunting.

[FireEagle244]

3 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Why? You can get the Prime X470-Pro for the same price, and that's a considerably better board overall from an OEM that's been solid with its AM4 offerings.

I like yours better, how is overclocking on it?

can i overclock to like 4+GHz

[aisle9]

Just now, FireEagle244 said:

I like yours better, how is overclocking on it?

can i overclock to like 4+GHz

My old board is an X370 Taichi by AsRock. It is beautiful, it is built like a tank, it has great warranty support behind it and it has the best power delivery you'll find on AM4 unless you go for the ultra-high end Crosshair and Maximus stuff. It's running my wife's setup now, which is just my old R7 1700. It was pricey, but I slept easy knowing I was running that board.

 

Good power delivery is important to an OC, and the Prime X470-Pro has that, but a lot of it falls on the CPU itself too. It's impossible to guarantee results, but I can say confidently that you stand a much better chance of getting a "shoot the moon" overclock on an X470 board than you do B450, and you stand a much better chance of still having a motherboard in a year if you go X470.

[FireEagle244]

2 hours ago, aisle9 said:

My old board is an X370 Taichi by AsRock. It is beautiful, it is built like a tank, it has great warranty support behind it and it has the best power delivery you'll find on AM4 unless you go for the ultra-high end Crosshair and Maximus stuff. It's running my wife's setup now, which is just my old R7 1700. It was pricey, but I slept easy knowing I was running that board.

 

Good power delivery is important to an OC, and the Prime X470-Pro has that, but a lot of it falls on the CPU itself too. It's impossible to guarantee results, but I can say confidently that you stand a much better chance of getting a "shoot the moon" overclock on an X470 board than you do B450, and you stand a much better chance of still having a motherboard in a year if you go X470.

Ok, I like the look better, and it sounds like a good board. Thanks. Its a little more, but with better performance, I can take that.