Logitech wants to bring the keyboard into the VR space

[WMGroomAK]

Logitech is not content with just being a keyboard manufacturer for the physical realm, they also want to be your keyboard for working in VR.  In a Vive blog post, Logitech is launching applications to try out their BRIDGE SDK, which is designed to allow for you to integrate keyboard use into VR, which honestly looks really cool and could be a better solution for any type entry you have to perform after putting on the headset...

 

https://blog.vive.com/us/2017/11/02/introducing-the-logitech-bridge-sdk/

 

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I am excited to introduce the BRIDGE developers kit, an SDK aimed at helping App makers and SW developers solve the problem of text entry in virtual reality.
The kit consists of a Logitech G gaming keyboard, an accessory that positions a Vive Tracker correctly on the keyboard, and the associated software (MSRP U.S. $150). Logitech will be seeding 50 of these kits to select developers with the goal of partnering to create compelling new experiences centered around a VR keyboard.

Quote

“Whether you’re doing work or surfing the web you sometimes need the ability to enter text, and Logitech has made it easier to use your keyboard in VR. With Bridge, you can see your physical keyboard, your hands and type without having to take your headset off.”
– Guy Godin, Virtual Desktop

We will be accepting applications from today through November 16, 2017 for the initial 50 slots in our developers program. If there is sufficient interest we may build additional kits for purchase after the initial batch is distributed.

...

During our initial explorations of VR, we were struck by the fact that keyboard use and text entry were necessary but not natural — and we’ve heard similar complaints from others. Our motivation comes from the research-backed understanding that in certain situations the user still needs a keyboard to interact with applications, particularly in productivity-driven or desktop scenarios, but also in games, social applications and content browsing.

...

We believe that a physical keyboard should be present, as it delivers essential tactile feedback and a universal experience that people value. Whether you are using a keyboard for gaming, communication or productivity, it is an effective and efficient tool. Besides letters, numbers and symbols, keyboards provide a range of modifier keys for more complex actions, all learned, perhaps painfully, and stored in your memory over years of use.

But VR can transform and augment that trusty keyboard – so easy to disregard – into a contextually aware companion for whatever application you use, becoming a palette for your creative workflow, dynamically providing you with any commands and shortcuts you need.
The customization can range from simple to complex. Ever wanted to change the font on your keys? Make the font bigger? Highlight keys that work in a given app, or make the ones that don’t invisible? How about changing the color of your keyboard or keys?
The possibilities are limited only by your imagination.

While I wouldn't want to try to play any First Person Games through Keyboard and Mouse Controls on a VR set, the act of entering Data to login and create game accounts or other functions may be useful...

 

TechCrunch Article: https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/02/logitech-is-experimenting-with-a-keyboard-built-for-virtual-reality/

 

[Maslofski]

how does it do the hand tracking though, there would need to be enough coverage to lay down the vr controllers to have your hands free to write and then be able to pick them up again

[NoRomanBatmansAllowed]

4 minutes ago, Maslofski said:

how does it do the hand tracking though, there would need to be enough coverage to lay down the vr controllers to have your hands free to write and then be able to pick them up again

Pretty sure it's something connected to the keyboard. Also, for keypresses it'll just render it when you actually press down a hardware key.

[WMGroomAK]

5 minutes ago, Maslofski said:

how does it do the hand tracking though, there would need to be enough coverage to lay down the vr controllers to have your hands free to write and then be able to pick them up again

Supposedly it's integrating with the Vive's room motion capture and it looks like there is a separate peripheral that is a part near the keyboard to help with tracking, other than that, not too sure...

 

From the TechCrunch Article:

Quote

As the demo video (below) shows, they’ve managed to bring in a view of your hands to overlay over the keyboard, helping you find the good ol’ home row keys. I’m curious as to how they did that; all Logitech has said for now is that they’ve “created a way to use the Vive’s existing tracking” to get it done.

 

[Thaldor]

15 minutes ago, Maslofski said:

how does it do the hand tracking though, there would need to be enough coverage to lay down the vr controllers to have your hands free to write and then be able to pick them up again

Just an guess but possibly combining the tracker data and Vives camera (cutting right at the edge of keyboard, they have the tracker so they know exactly were the keyboard is and just restrict the vives camera image to the keyboard are and somehow try to guess what part of the image are the hands and add them on the 3D model).

From the site:

Quote

It is this software piece that presents the user with an overlaid virtual representation of their keyboard in any VR application, complete with animations when keys are pressed.

 

Possibly the hands are there just for the marketing purposes and made with Leap Motion or plain motion capture like Neuron suit.

 

E: Just for clarification there's no way Vive itself could track the hands. They could have implemented something like the Leap Motion to the keyboard somehow (under the keys), but I doubt that. If the MSRP for the keyboard and the tracker is 150$ that doesn't leave much for anything new (tracker itself costs 99$ for the consumers and it's not a lot cheaper for developers).

[Sakkura]

You could even do capacitive tracking through the keyboard itself. That would be expensive though.

[ARikozuM]

How long until people want a mechanical VR KB? 

 

#CherryMXSuperClears

[Drak3]

20 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

How long until people want a mechanical VR KB?

Not without RGB, both in real life and in VR.

[n2a newt]

1 hour ago, Maslofski said:

how does it do the hand tracking though, there would need to be enough coverage to lay down the vr controllers to have your hands free to write and then be able to pick them up again

Probably using Leap Motion's tech or something similar.

[EunSoo]

Source:

The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/3/16602674/logitech-bridge-sdk-htc-vive-tracker-keyboard

TechCrunch: https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/02/logitech-is-experimenting-with-a-keyboard-built-for-virtual-reality/

Vive Blog: https://blog.vive.com/us/2017/11/02/introducing-the-logitech-bridge-sdk/ (Written by Vincent Tucker, Director Of Innovations & Strategy at Logitech)

Logitech announced the Logitech Bridge Developer kit in a Vive Blog Post. As you can see above, the kit comes with a Logitech keyboard and a Vive tracker (on the top left of the keyboard) that attaches directly onto the keyboard and with the Bridge SDK, you get to see and interact with your physical keyboard in a virtual envirenment. It has an MSRP of $150USD but don't expect geting one of these soon.

Quote

Logitech will be seeding 50 of these kits to select developers with the goal of partnering to create compelling new experiences centered around a VR keyboard.

 - Vive Blog

A consumer release date was not announced.

But why does this exist?

Quote

During our initial explorations of VR, we were struck by the fact that keyboard use and text entry were necessary but not natural — and we’ve heard similar complaints from others. Our motivation comes from the research-backed understanding that in certain situations the user still needs a keyboard to interact with applications, particularly in productivity-driven or desktop scenarios, but also in games, social applications and content browsing.

 

“We’ve been working with Logitech over the past year and think what they’ve created is the solution we all need. Virtual keyboards are great for simple interactivity, but for productivity and collaboration there’s nothing quite like the tactile feel of typing on an actual physical keyboard. Being able to see your keyboard in VR makes it significantly easier to type and interact with our computers.”

– Darshan Shankar, Founder and CEO, Bigscreen, Inc.

 - Vive Blog

I guess that's an issue and I guess that solves the issue. I think we can all agree that typing on a mechanical keyboard will be better than whatever virtual stuff the Vive has. Another cool thing that they showed is that they will be able to show your hands in an oevrlay over the keyboard. It would look something like this:

 

Quote

We believe that a physical keyboard should be present, as it delivers essential tactile feedback and a universal experience that people value. Whether you are using a keyboard for gaming, communication or productivity, it is an effective and efficient tool. Besides letters, numbers and symbols, keyboards provide a range of modifier keys for more complex actions, all learned, perhaps painfully, and stored in your memory over years of use.

 - Vive Blog

OK. But is this thing even going to work?

Quote

The result? We’ve created a way for the HTC Vive Tracker to represent a keyboard across the Steam VR system. It is this software piece that presents the user with an overlaid virtual representation of their keyboard in any VR application, complete with animations when keys are pressed. It’s compatible with all apps that are developed based on SteamVR. The developer’s application does not need to manage anything, the overlay appears automatically as soon as the associated Vive Tracker is turned on. It also affords the opportunity to skin the keyboard in a variety of ways, as mentioned above, allowing developers to create unique experiences for their communities.

 - Vive Blog

Cool. What do you think?

[WMGroomAK]

16 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

How long until people want a mechanical VR KB? 

 

#CherryMXSuperClears

 

16 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Not without RGB, both in real life and in VR.

With the virtual keyboard, shouldn't they be able to better than just plain old RGB?  Maybe they can rebrand it? Of course, I won't be satisfied unless they can also make it so that each key is it's own dancing RGB emote or Meme. 

 

One potential idea could be to make a virtual toggle to instantly switch the virtual keycap displays to different keyboard layouts. Like instantly going from QWERTY to Dvorak or non-Latin based layouts.  

[Drak3]

47 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

 

With the virtual keyboard, shouldn't they be able to better than just plain old RGB?  Maybe they can rebrand it? Of course, I won't be satisfied unless they can also make it so that each key is it's own dancing RGB emote or Meme. 

 

One potential idea could be to make a virtual toggle to instantly switch the virtual keycap displays to different keyboard layouts. Like instantly going from QWERTY to Dvorak or non-Latin based layouts.  

Speaking of stupid keyboard ideas, HEY APPLE, MAKE EACH KEY A SMALL, TOUGH SCREEN AND HAVE THE FUNCTIONS CHANGEABLE.

 

Can't just leave the stupid keyboards to the VR space.

[Haaselh0ff]

1 hour ago, VegetableStu said:

On one hand: wow cool one step closer to a virtual desktop environment

 

On the other: WOW THAT KNOB AT THE CORNER. couldn't HTC or Logitech design something keyboard-shaped?

They wanted to use the Tracker puck system that HTC had created because it allows for anything to become trackable by the Steam VR software with ease.

[ARikozuM]

1 hour ago, WMGroomAK said:

 

With the virtual keyboard, shouldn't they be able to better than just plain old RGB? 

[GASP] American keyboard! Each press fires red, white, and blue fireworks! 

 

Or Hitler Untergang "Fegelein" emotes!

 

This can't be stopped, it'll ruin humanity...

[Tech_Dreamer]

Although it's useful , come on, we have entered a world where we can virtually interact with an environment almost seamlessly like never before & we still need to cherry pick letters to enter in something , we need something like an advanced voice recognition , reading this news it sounded to me like it's sorta trying to put a mechanical gear back on to a virtual sports car , if you know what i mean.

[Thaldor]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Speaking of stupid keyboard ideas, HEY APPLE, MAKE EACH KEY A SMALL, TOUGH SCREEN AND HAVE THE FUNCTIONS CHANGEABLE.

 

Can't just leave the stupid keyboards to the VR space.

Done already (Art. Lebedev Studio for OLED ones like Optimus Maximus, for something more affordable Elgato Stream Deck), but that's just normal for Apple

 

Only real question about this is really that does the keyboard come with the tracker? I would buy one just for the tracker, because they are extremely hard to get, at least from HTC.

 

But really I don't get the idea at least when I take account that it's made for Vive and Vive shines in the room scale. would be kind of odd to have keyboard flying around the games and probably every time you go for it, you bumb into something in real world. Seated it would be quite great for something like Elite: Dangerous which is kind of pain in the ass if you don't have HOTAS with enough buttons.

Would also be nice if Logitech would be doing partnership with Valve to get the workshop and SteamVR compatible with this. Eventhou Valve still haven't even brought full support for the Vive Trackers (no skins and last time I checked no standard textures).

[System Error Message]

i think i'll settle for a VR (virtual) keyboard instead. Fully customisable and only cost electricity and processing power.

[pyconaut]

I accidentally made a second thread on this topic, luckily someone quickly spotted that it was a duplicate.  So I will repost my insights here.

 

First up, it uses the camera (no had tracking, just the usual blue outline that vive uses for the low power camera view.)   

 

I predicted that they would make this about a year ago, and am actually surprised how long it took.

 

I do VR game dev and there are definitely times that having a keyboard would be great.  I am actually sad that they are using the vive puck instead of building it into the keyboard itself (which you can do).  100 dollars for the vive tracker plus however much the keyboard costs (bundle is estimated to be $150 ).

 

Current use case that I would love having this keyboard for.

3D modeling (macros) in VR

coding in VR

web browsing in VR

writing in VR

searching through files in VR

 

I hope logitech is already working on one with the trackers built in (it would probably lower the price in the long run).  Also you wouldn't need to charge two items (tracker, and keyboard).

 

To the LTT forum members, would you use this.  If so what for, if not why not.

[ARikozuM]

On 11/3/2017 at 2:46 PM, Tech_Dreamer said:

we need something like an advanced voice recognition

Windows has it and no one uses it, there are plenty of third-party applications for this, and then there are the VR guys who use it, but don't say anything as it A) is a learning experience on VR or B) is obvious to a fault. 

On 11/3/2017 at 2:46 PM, Tech_Dreamer said:

, reading this news it sounded to me like it's sorta trying to put a mechanical gear back on to a virtual sports car , if you know what i mean.

 

I don't think this will ever reach the mainstream.

[Rodinski]

Give me some mechanical virtual switches, kthnxbai.

[Thaldor]

23 hours ago, pyconaut said:

First up, it uses the camera (no had tracking, just the usual blue outline that vive uses for the low power camera view.)  

The blue image is just SteamVRs filter for the camera, the camera otherwise is just normal bad webcam. One thing I'm quite laughing at this is that "hand tracking", they went the trouble to make quite odd software that either can recognize hands and cut everything else from the image or went the extra few million miles and wrote drivers to cut the webcam sensor in half and made it to very low resolution 3D camera (my moneys are on the first one). But after that they ended up using quite the same, just toned down a little, Tron-filter as SteamVR.

Quote

I do VR game dev and there are definitely times that having a keyboard would be great.  I am actually sad that they are using the vive puck instead of building it into the keyboard itself (which you can do).  100 dollars for the vive tracker plus however much the keyboard costs (bundle is estimated to be $150 ).

And that is the part I'm most bothered. 150$ for a keyboard and the tracker is ok price if the availability is good, I wouldn't buy it for the keyboard I would buy couple of those for the trackers, just because that keyboard is probably quite (excuse me for my french) shit, price probably around 50-80$ depending on how cheap HTC sells trackers to Logitech. But if it comes without the tracker, well it's going to be a good keyboard because the price is high, but it won't sell a lot because trackers are hard to get.

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To the LTT forum members, would you use this.  If so what for, if not why not.

Probably wouldn't. In my opinion Vive is the best at room scale tracking and for seated I choose Rift, keyboard for VR is quite a lot seated accessory, because in room scale it will cause a lot of broken toes. Also I'm quite sceptical how much of coverage this would get, the trackers have been out for a quite a while and still their support is like nothing, hell, even Valve doesn't support them (you need to flash a tracker with controllers firmware to use it in MR camera setup, because Valve only supports third controller as camera point, if you use SteamVR API in Unity), so Logitech making a keyboard and API for it doesn't really rise to the top of the things needing support at the moment.

 

I might have thinking that's confined into a box, but I don't really see a lot of demand for a desk keyboard for VR at least in that price range. Logitech could have quite easily dropped the price a lot with going the same way VR gun makers go and buy a RMAd controllers (there's a lot of them and only problem with them is that their trackpads button top has been clued badly and broken off) from the HTC and using their tracking in something more carryable kayboard (like something that would have like magnetic holster that you could attach to your waist and would be small enough to be used with single hand).

 

But if they come easily available with the tracker and pricetag is around 150$, I will buy couple of them for the trackers. Just like I'm waiting for the tracker bundles, just for those trackers (probably end up buying the zapper, because those rackets... LoL... really 150$ for couple of Wii rackets and a tracker? 110$ would have been better price since you can get just any tennis racket or ping pong racket and attach normal 1/4"-20 camera screw to it and vóla, you have VR racket and costed you around few dollars for the rackets and few cents for the screws plus 99$ for the tracker. The zapper at least seems to have integrated the trackers button contacts to make it functional).