My uncle needs a new/upgraded gaming computer

[Crossi]

Hi!

My uncle approached me a couple of days ago. He has a 7 year old gaming computer and feels like he needs an upgrade. I totally agree (using it feels like it would be faster to move the bits yourself with a magnet...).

 

He uses his computer for the usual office stuff and to occasionally play computer games (his new favourite is Battlefield 1). He wants an upgrade to something that can play anything he throws at it for the next 3-4 years. Graphic settings don't have to be maxed out and as long as he has 60FPS I'm happy (I doubt he would notice more than that).

 

He gave me very few limitations regarding budget as long as it stays reasonable (around 1000€, cheaper obviously better). He definitely wants to replace his 500GB HDD with an SSD of similar size though. Also, it shouldn't be louder than his current computer (which uses the stock Intel cooler).

 

My current plan is the following:

Keep his current case (Antec Three Hundred Midi [ATX]) and potentially the PSU (beQuiet! Straight Power (E7) 550W). I want to also keep his 500GB WD Blue HDD and simply add an SSD. I think an additional 500GB SSD is overkill, but he seems to have his heart set on it. He also has a card reader that he wants to keep, which gets connected via SATA. He currently has two DVD drives which he apparently still uses and wants to keep (needs to be able to read and write DVDs). I don't even know how the connectors are called that those drives use (it's definitely not SATA), so I probably have to buy new ones.

 

Which leads me to my planned purchases. I currently look at the i5 7500 and the Gigabyte Windforce GTX 1070. Those seem to be reasonably priced and perform well. I can't decide for a motherboard though. I have no idea what to look for. What makes a decent motherboard (other than having enough SATA ports, the correct socket etc.)?

 

I'm also not sure if I should buy new RAM. He currently has 8GB (4x2GB) DDR3 1066MHz RAM. Should I go for DDR4? If not, are those good enough or should I buy faster/newer DDR3?

 

Any pointers and/or suggestions are highly appreciated!

[dizmo]

If you're going with a 7500 you pretty much have to go with DDR4, but why would you get that chip?
It's outdated and gets beaten by the i3 8100.

 

I'd recommend either the 1300x, or i3 8100. If you're building now, the AMD route will be cheaper (likely) due to the Intel platform only having Z370 boards out right now. Go for faster RAM if available budget wise.

 

AMD -> B350 motherboard.

Intel -> Has to be Z370. I wouldn't bother with a 7500.

[seon123]

The 1600 or 8400 would be better buys than the 7500. The extra cores should help performance, especially if he decides to keep it for a few years. 

Newer platforms all use DDR4, so you'll have to get new RAM (I'm ignoring a few 100-series motherboards that used DDR3 even though the CPUs weren't designed for it). 

What I look for in a motherboard is if it has enough USB ports around the back and their versions, that it has 4 RAM slots, M.2 socket placement(s), VRM (doesn't matter too much), aesthetics (I can't tell you what looks nice), any software features, any other features and internal USB connectors.

The PSU should be fine, but I would consider replacing it. Shouldn't be a priority, imo. 

[Cyracus]

if you're getting a kaby lake chip you need ddr4, use this site for making a parts list https://pcpartpicker.com does a good job of sorting through internet sellers and finding good prices. 

6 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I'd recommend either the 1300x, or i3 8100. If you're building now, the AMD route will be cheaper (likely) due to the Intel platform only having Z370 boards out right now. Go for faster RAM if available budget wise.

would be better to go with a 1600 than a 1300x, the 1600 costs about the same as the 7500, a good b350 mobo is about $90 and 3000mhz+ ram is recommended and requires a little checking to make sure the ram you choose plays well with ryzen. I honestly wouldn't touch intels 8000 series though...

[Damascus]

Here's a nice build, it's the best you can get for the money (reuses case + PSU)

PCPartPicker part list: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/HkHVxY
Price breakdown by merchant: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/HkHVxY/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor  (€198.95 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  (€78.53 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Crucial - 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  (€64.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 525GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  (€147.41 @ Mindfactory)
Video Card: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Mini Video Card  (€519.90 @ Caseking)
Total: €1009.78
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-16 20:02 CEST+0200

[dizmo]

5 minutes ago, Cyracus said:

 

would be better to go with a 1600 than a 1300x, the 1600 costs about the same as the 7500, a good b350 mobo is about $90 and 3000mhz+ ram is recommended and requires a little checking to make sure the ram you choose plays well with ryzen. I honestly wouldn't touch intels 8000 series though...

The 1600 is a good choice as well, but could be overkill depending on the titles he plays. If he values saving money over maximum performance, which it sounds like considering he's not concerned about playing at max settings, the 1300x or even the 1400 would both be good, cheaper options.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Intel's 8000 series, and it outperforms similar Ryzen systems in many scenarios.

[dizmo]

6 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Here's a nice build, it's the best you can get for the money (reuses case + PSU)

PCPartPicker part list: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/HkHVxY
Price breakdown by merchant: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/HkHVxY/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor  (€198.95 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  (€78.53 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Crucial - 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  (€64.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 525GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  (€147.41 @ Mindfactory)
Video Card: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Mini Video Card  (€519.90 @ Caseking)
Total: €1009.78
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-16 20:02 CEST+0200

Haha, good build but there's absolutely no need for a 1080. A 1060 would be more than sufficient in this case.

[Damascus]

Just now, dizmo said:

Haha, good build but there's absolutely no need for a 1080. A 1060 would be more than sufficient in this case.

[dizmo]

1 minute ago, Damascus said:

Or you know, you could actually be helpful when making suggestions

[BloodyWaters]

6 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Or you know, you could actually be helpful when making suggestions

A picture is worth one thousand words. 

[Crossi]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

If you're going with a 7500 you pretty much have to go with DDR4, but why would you get that chip?
It's outdated and gets beaten by the i3 8100.

 

I'd recommend either the 1300x, or i3 8100. If you're building now, the AMD route will be cheaper (likely) due to the Intel platform only having Z370 boards out right now. Go for faster RAM if available budget wise.

 

AMD -> B350 motherboard.

Intel -> Has to be Z370. I wouldn't bother with a 7500.

I looked through the linustechtips youtube channel and found a 1000$ gaming pc guide from May that used that chip. Seemed priced okay, so I went with it. The general consensus in this thread seems to be that this is a terrible choice, so I will likely reconsider. Thank you for your thoughts!

1 hour ago, seon123 said:

The 1600 or 8400 would be better buys than the 7500. The extra cores should help performance, especially if he decides to keep it for a few years. 

Newer platforms all use DDR4, so you'll have to get new RAM (I'm ignoring a few 100-series motherboards that used DDR3 even though the CPUs weren't designed for it). 

What I look for in a motherboard is if it has enough USB ports around the back and their versions, that it has 4 RAM slots, M.2 socket placement(s), VRM (doesn't matter too much), aesthetics (I can't tell you what looks nice), any software features, any other features and internal USB connectors.

The PSU should be fine, but I would consider replacing it. Shouldn't be a priority, imo. 

He definitely wants to keep it for a few years. Thank you for the clarification on the RAM and your thoughts on motherboards! Aesthetics don't matter, the case has no window and gets stashed away under the desk. Have M.2 disks any noticeable advantages over "normal" disks other than not requiring cables? I never had a PSU fail on me, but I never really had a pc longer than 4-5 years. Do you know an approximate life expectancy?

1 hour ago, Alexsolo said:

What are the current specs of his PC?

They are scattered around in the initial post, but you are right, I should have posted them separately. Here they are:
Antec Three Hundred Midi Tower (ATX)
beQuiet! Straight Power (E7) 550W
ASUS P7P55 LX

i5 750

Kingston 8GB (4x2GB) DDR3 RAM (1066 MHz)

Zotac GTX 260

500GB WD Blue HDD

1 hour ago, Cyracus said:

if you're getting a kaby lake chip you need ddr4, use this site for making a parts list https://pcpartpicker.com does a good job of sorting through internet sellers and finding good prices. 

would be better to go with a 1600 than a 1300x, the 1600 costs about the same as the 7500, a good b350 mobo is about $90 and 3000mhz+ ram is recommended and requires a little checking to make sure the ram you choose plays well with ryzen. I honestly wouldn't touch intels 8000 series though...

Thank you for the link, that's a very useful site. Is there a particular reason why you despise the Intel 8000 series?

1 hour ago, Damascus said:

Here's a nice build, it's the best you can get for the money (reuses case + PSU)

PCPartPicker part list: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/HkHVxY
Price breakdown by merchant: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/HkHVxY/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor  (€198.95 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  (€78.53 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Crucial - 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  (€64.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 525GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  (€147.41 @ Mindfactory)
Video Card: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Mini Video Card  (€519.90 @ Caseking)
Total: €1009.78
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-16 20:02 CEST+0200

Thank you for creating an entire build. It doesn't include new DVD drives though (which I most likely need due to those weird connectors). I have no idea what DVD drives cost, but would a cheaper graphics card work in your opinion?

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

The 1600 is a good choice as well, but could be overkill depending on the titles he plays. If he values saving money over maximum performance, which it sounds like considering he's not concerned about playing at max settings, the 1300x or even the 1400 would both be good, cheaper options.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Intel's 8000 series, and it outperforms similar Ryzen systems in many scenarios.

He seems to be into shooters. Saw Medal of Honor, Battlefield 3 and 1, and multiple Call of Duties installed on his current machine. He really couldn't care less what is in his computer as long as everything works and he doesn't have to upgrade again in 2 years.

 

I'm getting mixed signals here about Intel CPUs. What happened recently? Last time I've build a pc for myself everyone liked Intel better.

[Damascus]

1 minute ago, Crossi said:

Thank you for creating an entire build. It doesn't include new DVD drives though (which I most likely need due to those weird connectors). I have no idea what DVD drives cost, but would a cheaper graphics card work in your opinion?

Sure, GTX 1070 is a terrible choice right now (costs basically the same as a 1080) THoug hnow that I've seen the build I recommend a second hand i7 860 and a 1080 - I'm currently running one and its great for gaming, gets close to my 1700

[seon123]

5 minutes ago, Crossi said:

He definitely wants to keep it for a few years. Thank you for the clarification on the RAM and your thoughts on motherboards! Aesthetics don't matter, the case has no window and gets stashed away under the desk. Have M.2 disks any noticeable advantages over "normal" disks other than not requiring cables? I never had a PSU fail on me, but I never really had a pc longer than 4-5 years. Do you know an approximate life expectancy?

About motherboards, I forgot to mention number and placement of fan headers. That one can be a bit annoying, if you get it wrong. 

M.2 drives can be NVMe drives, having read and write speeds up to ~3,5 GB/s. For day to day use, they cost way more than their benefit. Unless you'll read and write a lot on and off the drive (like in the case of video production), you shouldn't really get one. M.2 SATA drives just take up less space. 

The normal and boring answer to PSU life expectancy is to look at the warranty. But even a cheap unit can be used for ages without issues, and you can randomly get a nice PSU that will get issues early on. There are guys on the PSU forums that should be able to answer the question better than me. 

[dizmo]

4 minutes ago, Crossi said:

I looked through the linustechtips youtube channel and found a 1000$ gaming pc guide from May that used that chip. Seemed priced okay, so I went with it. The general consensus in this thread seems to be that this is a terrible choice, so I will likely reconsider. Thank you for your thoughts!

 

I'm getting mixed signals here about Intel CPUs. What happened recently? Last time I've build a pc for myself everyone liked Intel better.

Yeah, Intel has released new CPUs recently that basically make the older ones obsolete. Ryzen has some decent CPUs out now, and their motherboards are cheaper so from a value aspect if you're buying right now and don't need to OC Ryzen is likely the better choice.

 

I'd do something like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor  (€198.95 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME B350-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard  (€81.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: ADATA - 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  (€85.83 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 525GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (€146.40 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SSC GAMING Video Card  (€314.90 @ Caseking)
Optical Drive: LG - GH24NSC0 DVD/CD Writer  (€15.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Optical Drive: LG - GH24NSC0 DVD/CD Writer  (€15.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €860.05

[Cyracus]

53 minutes ago, Crossi said:

Is there a particular reason why you despise the Intel 8000 series?

I know someone'll give me crap about this, but yes, I believe Linus ducked a topic during the WAN show because he had some extra information that he felt he couldn't share, it's one of those kind of things... Sorry I can't explain

  

[Crossi]

43 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Sure, GTX 1070 is a terrible choice right now (costs basically the same as a 1080) THoug hnow that I've seen the build I recommend a second hand i7 860 and a 1080 - I'm currently running one and its great for gaming, gets close to my 1700

30 minutes ago, Alexsolo said:

For what he does, I'd upgrade to:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: Corsair - Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($119.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($98.94 @ OutletPC) 
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GTX 1060 3GB 3GB Dual Video Card  ($222.88 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $441.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-16 15:39 EDT-0400

 

Fresh windows install

 

Honestly doesn't need much more than that

A simple $500 of parts will last him a good while, plus the SSD and GPU are transferable to any new PC in the future.

I find it quite interesting that a CPU from late 2009 should be enough for the next 4 years. I don't think the CPU supports 1600 MHz RAM and I would assume that the motherboard PCI-E slots will be a serious bottleneck for the GTX 1060. Is my intuition so far off here?

35 minutes ago, seon123 said:

About motherboards, I forgot to mention number and placement of fan headers. That one can be a bit annoying, if you get it wrong. 

M.2 drives can be NVMe drives, having read and write speeds up to ~3,5 GB/s. For day to day use, they cost way more than their benefit. Unless you'll read and write a lot on and off the drive (like in the case of video production), you shouldn't really get one. M.2 SATA drives just take up less space. 

The normal and boring answer to PSU life expectancy is to look at the warranty. But even a cheap unit can be used for ages without issues, and you can randomly get a nice PSU that will get issues early on. There are guys on the PSU forums that should be able to answer the question better than me. 

Thanks for the clarification! I think I'll go the safe road and buy a new PSU. Seven years feels like a very long time and there really is no reason to risk it.

34 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Yeah, Intel has released new CPUs recently that basically make the older ones obsolete. Ryzen has some decent CPUs out now, and their motherboards are cheaper so from a value aspect if you're buying right now and don't need to OC Ryzen is likely the better choice.

 

I'd do something like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor  (€198.95 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME B350-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard  (€81.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: ADATA - 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  (€85.83 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial - MX300 525GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (€146.40 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SSC GAMING Video Card  (€314.90 @ Caseking)
Optical Drive: LG - GH24NSC0 DVD/CD Writer  (€15.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Optical Drive: LG - GH24NSC0 DVD/CD Writer  (€15.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €860.05

Thanks, it looks like we're getting closer to a final build. As noted above I will most likely go with a new PSU. That should not be an issue with the left over budget though. What wattage (is that even a word?) would you recommend? 

[dizmo]

1 minute ago, Crossi said:

I find it quite interesting that a CPU from late 2009 should be enough for the next 4 years. I don't think the CPU supports 1600 MHz RAM and I would assume that the motherboard PCI-E slots will be a serious bottleneck for the GTX 1060. Is my intuition so far off here?

Thanks for the clarification! I think I'll go the safe road and buy a new PSU. Seven years feels like a very long time and there really is no reason to risk it.

Thanks, it looks like we're getting closer to a final build. As noted above I will most likely go with a new PSU. That should not be an issue with the left over budget though. What wattage (is that even a word?) would you recommend? 

550 - 600 watt.

I'd get this one. https://de.pcpartpicker.com/product/3hkwrH/corsair-power-supply-cp9020102na

[seon123]

3 minutes ago, Crossi said:

What wattage (is that even a word?) would you recommend? 

If you can, get the Corsair Vengeance PSU. Any wattage. They don't cost that much, and are quite awesome. Or pick any tier 1-3 unit in the PSU tier list. Tier 1 being the best, of course. 

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/

[Damascus]

7 minutes ago, Crossi said:

I find it quite interesting that a CPU from late 2009 should be enough for the next 4 years. I don't think the CPU supports 1600 MHz RAM and I would assume that the motherboard PCI-E slots will be a serious bottleneck for the GTX 1060. Is my intuition so far off here?

PCI-0e gen 2 should be more than enough for a 1060

[Mr.Meerkat]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

Or you know, you could actually be helpful when making suggestions

But...but...it is actually helpful tho...

He did show OP what he could get with the budget  

 

8 minutes ago, Crossi said:

I would assume that the motherboard PCI-E slots will be a serious bottleneck for the GTX 1060

Nope, a 1060 is no where near bandwidth hungry enough to be limited by PCIe 2.0  

 

9 minutes ago, Crossi said:

I find it quite interesting that a CPU from late 2009 should be enough for the next 4 years.

Not really. If it was a sandybridge i5 then I can easily say that it should be enough for a couple more years (with a little bottlenecking while being paired with a 1060) however first gen core ix CPUs weren't great? (in terms of performance)  So...IMO you should probably just upgrade it. 

[dizmo]

1 minute ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

But...but...it is actually helpful tho...

He did show OP what he could get with the budget

Haha, it was pretty impressive that he managed to fit a 1080 in there, but when the OP says that less is better, and that he doesn't need to play at max settings...

[Damascus]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

Not really. If it was a sandybridge i5 then I can easily say that it should be enough for a couple more years (with a little bottlenecking while being paired with a 1060) however first gen core ix CPUs weren't great? (in terms of performance)  So...IMO you should probably just upgrade it. 

Actually I'm typing this on a core i7 860, it's a legit nice chip for the money (got it and an insane mobo for 140 CAD)  Runs Pubg no issues when paired with my 290x

[Crossi]

15 hours ago, Alexsolo said:

You said it yourself @Crossi... office work and casual gaming. For casual gaming even an older PC can hold its ground.

Personally don't think a brand new $1000 machine would be a good idea when for what he wants to do it'll work just fine for a little over $400.

Plus the DDR3 RAM can be picked up from a private seller (used) for a lot cheaper.

But that's just my opinion, doesn't mean you can't go with a brand new machine and max out gaming performance. I just find it unlikely based on how much you described he uses the machine that he'll utilize a brand new system to its full potential.

You're probably right that he won't utilise its full potential right now, but I think that's actually a good thing. He wants to keep it for a long time, so leaving a bit of breathing room seems like a reasonable thing to do. Spending 400€ now just prolongs the inevitable. I agree that an older computer can hold its ground, but most of his parts got released 9+ years ago. I think we can all agree that this is an awfully long time ago (for technology).

 

I believe the right thing to do is salvage as much parts of his current computer as possible and use his budget to build something that might be overkill right now, but ensures that he will be able to play anything he wants for the years to come.

15 hours ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

[...]

Not really. If it was a sandybridge i5 then I can easily say that it should be enough for a couple more years (with a little bottlenecking while being paired with a 1060) however first gen core ix CPUs weren't great? (in terms of performance)  So...IMO you should probably just upgrade it. 

That's what I thought, but @Damascus seems to have a different opinion. The question is if it works fine for now. I doubt it will last for the next 4 years, especially if you want to play new games that come out 3 years from now.

 

 

I've tried to curate a build from your suggestions and suggestions made in a Skype group with a couple of friends.

This is the current state (https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/2ybsd6):

AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor                                                           198,95€

Asus - PRIME B350-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard                                                         81,99€

Crucial - 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory                                                                 64,99€

Crucial - MX300 525GB 2.5" Solid State Drive                                                             146,40€

Palit - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB Dual Video Card                                                  277,80€

Corsair - Vengeance 550W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply     64,99€

Samsung - SH-222AB DVD/CD Writer                                                                       2x 14,95€

 

A suggestion that I already got said that I should go for a fast RAM (atleast 2666, better would be 2800 or 3000), which would mean I also need another motherboard. Do you all agree? Do you have different suggestions?

[Damascus]

1 hour ago, Crossi said:

Corsair - Vengeance 550W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply     64,99€

PSU is way too old, get an evga G2 or RMx PSU instead

[seon123]

25 minutes ago, Damascus said:

PSU is way too old, get an evga G2 or RMx PSU instead

Old? That thing was reviewed on Jonnyguru in November of last year, that's just 1 year ago. 

Regulation is comparable to the G2, and ripple is also really good, with under 30mV on the 12V rail in the reviewed unit. IIRC, it got LAMBDA-B by Cybenetics, which isn't that good, but still very okay.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=492

Indeed LAMBDA-B

https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=database&manfID=28