So many 3A titles perform worse with DX12 than DX11. What's the point of DX12?

[imluvian]

Why bother to develop a new graphics API that decreases the FPS?

Is DX12 just a marketing strategy of Windows 10? 

 

[NeoSk11zle]

Just now, imluvian said:

Why bother to develop a new graphics API that decreases the FPS?

Is DX12 just a marketing strategy of Windows 10? 

 

Nah gee, for games to take advantage of DX11 they have to be 'built around the API" to make it more efficient so not many games today fare well like Vulkan 

[Si3Rra_7]

1 minute ago, NeoSk11zle said:

Nah gee, for games to take advantage of DX11 they have to be 'built around the API" to make it more efficient so not many games today fare well like Vulkan 

Pro tip : delete photos when quoting posts that have photos in them .

 

On topic : 

Yeah it's still new and most games haven't been built directly for dx12

[imluvian]

2 minutes ago, NeoSk11zle said:

Nah gee, for games to take advantage of DX11 they have to be 'built around the API" to make it more efficient so not many games today fare well like Vulkan 

quantum break was built originally with DX12 and then transplanted to DX11, but still, DX11 performs better in both latest AMD Polaris cards and NV Pascal cards.

[Dabombinable]

All I will say is this. Devs are going against the recommendation that you only use DX 12 if they know what they are actually doing. Spoiler: The ones using it are shit.

[Nena Trinity]

So far it have only reliably improved CPU side of things...

[NeoSk11zle]

7 minutes ago, Si3Rra_7 said:

Pro tip : delete photos when quoting posts that have photos in them .

 

On topic : 

Yeah it's still new and most games haven't been built directly for dx12

yea thnx 

[NeoSk11zle]

5 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

All I will say is this. Devs are going against the recommendation that you only use DX 12 if they know what they are actually doing. Spoiler: The ones using it are shit.

YUP

[Energycore]

Just give devs time to get used to coding on the new APIs. A few success cases have surfaced, and tacking on DX12 sometimes is something that publishers will have their devs do for the sake of marketing.

[samcool55]

26 minutes ago, imluvian said:

quantum break was built originally with DX12 and then transplanted to DX11, but still, DX11 performs better in both latest AMD Polaris cards and NV Pascal cards.

But the DX12 version is available in the windows store and the DX11 version is available on steam.

There are rumors floating around the windows store DRM is hurting performance quite a lot.

 

Also the studio said they are more comfortable using DX11 because they have more experience with that API.

 

Anyway, lower DX12 performance compared to DX11 is because DX12 is still new, it takes 1-2 years until devs understand it properly and it's implemented correctly in a game engine like cryengine and unreal engine.

After it's implemented correctly in the game engine it takes another few years to develop a game, so it takes years and years until devs reach a point the API is finally fully used.

 

For now it's nice for devs to develop games with DX11 and DX12 because DX11 gives the devs a solid reliable API that they know will work and they can mess with DX12 so they can get familiar with it and can do a 1:1 comparison with DX11.

 

So for now, yes DX12 seems pointless, but give it a few years and you will see DX12 pull ahead when it gets more mature.

[ripPCagh]

 

[DevBlox]

There is a video about it

It is 90% accurate, the rest 10% were just not mentioned.

 

It takes a huge amount of time to move such huge software like game engines to a new fundamental standard, no wonder everything still sucks. Remember those first demo's that were built around it? They rocked.

[Miguel Batista]

34 minutes ago, DevBlox said:

There is a video about it

It is 90% accurate, the rest 10% were just not mentioned.

 

It takes a huge amount of time to move such huge software like game engines to a new fundamental standard, no wonder everything still sucks. Remember those first demo's that were built around it? They rocked.

Am I watching too much south park? I just saw this sentence and immediatly thought of member berries...

 

Anyway, on topic, for MS titles, the problem seems to be DRM and the fact that the games are not optimized for PC. Seriously, FH3 resource use is all over the place and makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Other games are ports from dx11 to dx12 so the devs might be using ways of doing things that are not as effective in dx12 as they were in dx11. But your mileage may vary. Give it time and I just hope FH3 is released on Steam using DX11. 

 

Also, removing CPU overhead is something that I want to see first since that will be a boost to all systems and then they can play around with async and other graphical features. 

 

Also, I think dx12 was sold to us as being this silver bullet but the reality is that it will take time to live up to its potential. Heck, I remember when dx11 cane out and it hogged more resources than dx9... Now its the most stable api we have on PC (well, Vulkan on Doom works pretty well for #4K60).

[imluvian]

 

4 minutes ago, Miguel Batista said:

Am I watching too much south park? I just saw this sentence and immediatly thought of member berries...

 

Anyway, on topic, for MS titles, the problem seems to be DRM and the fact that the games are not optimized for PC. Seriously, FH3 resource use is all over the place and makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Other games are ports from dx11 to dx12 so the devs might be using ways of doing things that are not as effective in dx12 as they were in dx11. But your mileage may vary. Give it time and I just hope FH3 is released on Steam using DX11. 

 

Also, removing CPU overhead is something that I want to see first since that will be a boost to all systems and then they can play around with async and other graphical features. 

 

Also, I think dx12 was sold to us as being this silver bullet but the reality is that it will take time to live up to its potential. Heck, I remember when dx11 cane out and it hogged more resources than dx9... Now its the most stable api we have on PC (well, Vulkan on Doom works pretty well for #4K60).

what is an FH3 resource?

[Delicieuxz]

The curious thing about those Battlefield 1 DX11 / DX12 comparisons, and people saying that it takes time for developers to learn the new APIs, and implement them effectively, is that DICE back-implemented Mantle, Vulkan's predecessor, into Battlefield 4, and they say it took 2 programmers about 6 weeks to accomplish, and it increased Bf4's FPS significantly on AMD GPUs (well, it did on my R9 280X, anyway).

 

Yet, the Battlefield 1 comparisons above show DX11 as performing much better for both Nvidia and AMD GPUs.

[Jumper118]

Vulkan > dx12

[Miguel Batista]

1 hour ago, imluvian said:

 

what is an FH3 resource?

"Forza horizon 3 resource use is all over the place"