I may want to buy a camera

[Mihle]

I have started getting interested in photography and maybe videos, so I may want to buy a camera.

I have not really done photography before.

 

But I want other peoples opinion on the following:

 

Canon 700D, Nikon D5300 or Sony a6000 (with kit lens, because I probably can by new lenses If I feel like it and have the cash)

 

And how dealbraking is it really that Sony a6000 does not have a mic in, is there a not to expensive way to get around that?

[ALwin]

If the camera doesn't have a mic in, buy something like a Zoom H1 recorder and then sync audio in post.  I guess the A6000 has some sort of built-in mic that can record a scratch track that makes syncing audio much easier.

 

As for the cameras themselves... pick any one you like.

[ALwin]

14 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

I have started getting interested in photography and maybe videos, so I may want to buy a camera.

I have not really done photography before.

If you're a beginner, perhaps save some money by buying a second hand camera, practice and learn with it.  Because by the time you feel comfortable with the knowledge required for creating nice photos or filming video, either something new will have come out on the market or you realized working with this type of camera is not suitable for you.

[Mihle]

3 minutes ago, ALwin said:

If you're a beginner, perhaps save some money by buying a second hand camera, practice and learn with it.  Because by the time you feel comfortable with the knowledge required for creating nice photos or filming video, either something new will have come out on the market or you realized working with this type of camera is not suitable for you.

Maybe, havent decided yet, does it matter if a camera is like from 2009? because most cameras I can find used is either that, or cost almost the same as buying new.

 

a6000 with a zoom h1 would cost a  bit more than one of the other two.

 

and a question, is it normal that a camera body it self sells for more than the body and the standard 18-55/3,6-5,6 kit lens?

(talking about 700D and D5300)

[ALwin]

2 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

Maybe, havent decided yet, does it matter if a camera is like from 2009? because most cameras I can find used is either that, or cost almost the same as buying new.

The first DSLR camera to have a video recording capability came out in late 2008-early 2009, the Nikon D90. It recorded only 720p resolution and the image was too soft.  Then came the Canon 5D mk II that revolutionized the market.

 

If a second hand camera is costing more than a brand new model, I am guessing that the more expensive second hand model is actually a higher level model.  For example, a second hand Nikon D800 would still cost more than a brand new Nikon D5300, even though it is about four years old.

 

6 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

a6000 with a zoom h1 would cost a  bit more than one of the other two.

Unfortunate.  I'm not sure what Sony was thinking when they omitted the mic port on the A6000.  Though I just realized something, the A6000 has a multi-interface hotshoe.  Perhaps Sony has a video mic that can be attached using that, however it will still cost you a bit more money though.  I think the A6000 might be able to use a mic with a MI hotshoe, for example this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1029168-REG/sony_ecmgz1m_microphone.html

 

But don't ask me about the quality of the mic.  I don't have experience with these models, and looking at the specs on B&H is not really helpful.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

and a question, is it normal that a camera body it self sells for more than the body and the standard 18-55/3,6-5,6 kit lens?

(talking about 700D and D5300)

If you're saying that a Nikon D5300 body only costs more than a Canon 700D with kit lens (or vice versa), it can be normal.  If it were a Canon 600D body only costing more than a Canon 700D with kit lens, this would not be normal.  You can't compare prices for these kind of setups from one manufacturer against another.

[Mihle]

What I ment with the cost wit kit lens thing is that just the Canon 700D body cost more than Canon 700D body + kit lens.

And just the Nikon D5300 body cost more than Nikon D5300 body + kit lens.

 

The D5300 is almost the exact same price as 700D where I live.

 

But I havent looker a lot on the second hand market, May just be that the ones I saw were bad deal's. I will look morebefore doing any decision.

[ALwin]

5 hours ago, Mihle Gaming said:

What I ment with the cost wit kit lens thing is that just the Canon 700D body cost more than Canon 700D body + kit lens.

And just the Nikon D5300 body cost more than Nikon D5300 body + kit lens.

 

The D5300 is almost the exact same price as 700D where I live.

OK I misunderstood what you meant.  I checked the prices on B&H in NY since I don't speak Norwegian or know any stores in Norway.

 

On B&H, the D5300 18-55 kit costs about $100 more than the body only, but the Canon body only costs about $50 more than the kit package.  As for the reasons why prices of body only being slightly more expensive than kit packages, I don't know.  Perhaps it's the manufacturer setting the base price a little higher or perhaps it's the store... because the body only box lets you buy any lens setup you want without the extra baggage of a (usually) crappy kit lens.

 

You should really ask the stores.

[Mihle]

Found a Canon 600D, but the lens with the smallest mm that is with it, is a 50mm prime. I would probably need something that is less than that?

dont know what the FOW actually is on a 50mm, but I am guessing it isnt as wide at all.

[.spider.]

15 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

Found a Canon 600D, but the lens with the smallest mm that is with it, is a 50mm prime. I would probably need something that is less than that?

dont know what the FOW actually is on a 50mm, but I am guessing it isnt as wide at all.

Yes 50mm are already quite long on APS-C. 

I am very happy with my 24mm prime on APS-C.

A 600D will not give you the best image quality, I would get a Nikon or Sony

[ALwin]

23 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

Found a Canon 600D, but the lens with the smallest mm that is with it, is a 50mm prime. I would probably need something that is less than that?

dont know what the FOW actually is on a 50mm, but I am guessing it isnt as wide at all.

Canon APS-C has a crop factor of 1.6.  So if you want to get an idea of the FOV for a particular focal length, multiple the focal length by 1.6

 

With a 50mm lens, on the 600D the FOV should be equivalent to looking through an 80mm lens on a full frame body.   As for the focal length, it depends.  What will you use it for?  50mm on a cropped body falls within the range of focal lengths which are ideal for portraiture.

 

For video, 50mm can be used, but it depends on the way you want to frame the scene.  If you're trying to film an interview where you only want a headshot or chest level cropping, it might be OK.  But if you want full body framing or other wide angles, it definitely will not be enough.

[Mihle]

2 minutes ago, .spider. said:

Yes 50mm are already quite long on APS-C. 

I am very happy with my 24mm prime on APS-C.

A 600D will not give you the best image quality, I would get a Nikon or Sony

Is Nikon D5100 better?

When it comes to second hand, it seems like there is a lot more Canon cameras than other ones.

I found a 550D with a ton of exstra things like mic, exstra lens, blitz, but it is a 550D, so no screen you can turn upwards or something. (it seems like a great thing, havent used a camera with one before)

[Lincoln_Rhyme]

7 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

Is Nikon D5100 better?

When it comes to second hand, it seems like there is a lot more Canon cameras than other ones.

I found a 550D with a ton of exstra things like mic, exstra lens, blitz, but it is a 550D, so no screen you can turn upwards or something. (it seems like a great thing, havent used a camera with one before)

what sort of photography are you doing?  the 550d should also be a good camera for photography. the quality of the image will be up to your skill as a photographer.  if you take a photo of a turd with the best camera on sale, it will still be a photo of a turd.  even if the camera has the best dynamic range, low noise, super low light capability the photo is still a turd

[ALwin]

5 minutes ago, Lincoln_Rhyme said:

 if you take a photo of a turd with the best camera on sale, it will still be a photo of a turd.

Two thumbs up!

[Mihle]

5 minutes ago, Lincoln_Rhyme said:

what sort of photography are you doing?  the 550d should also be a good camera for photography. the quality of the image will be up to your skill as a photographer.  if you take a photo of a turd with the best camera on sale, it will still be a photo of a turd.

I dont know yet  Probably different things.

or one thing I am sure about, no sports.

[.spider.]

10 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

Is Nikon D5100 better?

When it comes to second hand, it seems like there is a lot more Canon cameras than other ones.

I found a 550D with a ton of exstra things like mic, exstra lens, blitz, but it is a 550D, so no screen you can turn upwards or something. (it seems like a great thing, havent used a camera with one before)

Yes would be better.

There isn't a big difference between 600D and 550D if you want to save money.

[.spider.]

11 minutes ago, Lincoln_Rhyme said:

what sort of photography are you doing?  the 550d should also be a good camera for photography. the quality of the image will be up to your skill as a photographer.  if you take a photo of a turd with the best camera on sale, it will still be a photo of a turd.  even if the camera has the best dynamic range, low noise, super low light capability the photo is still a turd

So wrong in so many aspects. 

[Lincoln_Rhyme]

2 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

I dont know yet  Probably different things.

or one thing I am sure about, no sports.

ok well i am happy with my canon T5/1200d and I just take photos for fun.  i am not taking pictures in dark alleys late at night where i need to increase the iso and have so much noise in the image.  talk with ALwin he gives good advice about cameras and he takes into consideration the type of stuff you want to do and knows a lot.

 

read what he said above about the FOV when you asked about a 50mm lens

[ALwin]

20 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

I dont know yet  Probably different things.

or one thing I am sure about, no sports.

Do you want to use the camera to take photos as an amateur/hobbyist photographer or is it just to take photos for fun with family and friends?

 

Think about the different genres of photography you want to do:

• landscapes
• portraits
• wildlife
• travel
• fashion
• events
• macro
• many more

Because each of them, while similar lenses and focal lengths can be used, there are also specialty lenses and accessories you might need.  For example, if you want to become an event photographer (e.g. a wedding photographer), I would recommend you buy not just a camera and lenses but also some speedlight units (a.k.a. flash units).

 

Addendum:

Also don't worry if you're not sure yet.  Most beginners are not sure what they want to do and try out various things.  It lets them explore a bit first before finding their focus.  I'll be happy to help you in any way I can.

[Mihle]

20 minutes ago, .spider. said:

Yes would be better.

There isn't a big difference between 600D and 550D if you want to save money.

The biggest differece is the screen right?

 

I guess I have to choose between:

D5100 with just the kit lens

600D with kit lens (almost new)

600D with 50mm and a 70-300mm

550D with kit lens + 18-135mm lens + 50mm + mic + blitz + some small things

 

or buy new.

the 600D with 50mm will most likely be a no go.

 

11 minutes ago, ALwin said:

Do you want to use the camera to take photos as an amateur/hobbyist photographer or is it just to take photos for fun with family and friends?

 

Think about the different genres of photography you want to do:

• landscapes
• portraits
• wildlife
• travel
• fashion
• events
• macro
• many more

Because each of them, while similar lenses and focal lengths can be used, there are also specialty lenses and accessories you might need.  For example, if you want to become an event photographer (e.g. a wedding photographer), I would recommend you buy not just a camera and lenses but also in speedlight units (a.k.a. flash units).

brobably for fun at the start, but dont know what it will turn in to

 

The only things I am sure about:

I will not do: Wildlife, fashion, sports, weddings

I will do: travel (not a ton tho, but I do travel to other countries once a year) possibility to film 1080p 30 fps with it with mic.

Other stuff is things I may or may not do, depends on what I find out that I like the best.

 

Its probably hard to chose equipment based on that...

[ALwin]

6 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

The only things I am sure about:

I will not do: Wildlife, fashion, sports, weddings

I will do: travel (not a ton tho, but I do travel to other countries once a year) possibility to film 1080p 30 fps with it with mic.

Other stuff is things I may or may not do, depends on what I find out that I like the best.

 

Its probably hard to chose equipment based on that...

Can you link me to the places where you found those cameras for sale, if it's an online store.

 

OK wildlife, fashion, sports, weddings.. understandable that you do not want to do them, yet.  Who knows in the future.

 

But I think most people starting out in photography want to do portraits, even if it's just portraits of family, friends, significant others.  And they are looking to buy a camera because the photos taken with their phones are grainy, noisy, blurry, etc.  Essentially not really flattering of the person being photographed.

 

So when taking portraits of people, a photographer has to essentially understand (aside from other factors like lighting and composition) how to choose a lens to use, or more accurately how to pick the right focal length to use.  Because different focal lengths change the relationship between foreground and background elements in the scene.  Wide angle lengths distort and expand and long focal lengths compress and enclose.

 

If you do a close up portrait of someone's face with a wide angle lens, this is the kind of distortion you get:

 

With a long telephoto lens, you get something like this:

 

And with focal lengths that are considered the most common for portraiture, you get something that's a bit more balanced

 

Ever read the small notice on a rear view mirror of a car, where it says "objects in the mirror are closer than they appear".  That's because of the mirror's curved surface.  It's a similar concept with focal lengths, where wide angle lenses tend to make closer elements appear much larger than what's in the background and where long telephoto lenses make background elements in the distance appear closer than they are.  I'm not implying that these effects on a image are bad.  They can be useful creatively, but if you're going for the neutral look in a portrait (where the person you are photographing should appear natural) you need to be able to pick a proper focal length to use.

[ALwin]

I'm trying to point out that right now, for you as a beginner, it is more important to learn and understand the concepts of photography rather than worry about the camera you buy.  Because by the time you've become confident, proficient, skilled, knowledgeable, experienced enough to make use of a camera's full potential, the camera you buy now will most likely be outdated and you'll probably be wanting to upgrade to something that matches your skills.

 

So don't worry too much about the technical capabilities of the camera.  Just buy the kit you feel comfortable with buying, because this is your money you are spending.

[Mihle]

24 minutes ago, ALwin said:

Can you link me to the places where you found those cameras for sale, if it's an online store.

 

OK wildlife, fashion, sports, weddings.. understandable that you do not want to do them, yet.  Who knows in the future.

 

But I think most people starting out in photography want to do portraits, even if it's just portraits of family, friends, significant others.  And they are looking to buy a camera because the photos taken with their phones are grainy, noisy, blurry, etc.  Essentially not really flattering of the person being photographed.

 

So when taking portraits of people, a photographer has to essentially understand (aside from other factors like lighting and composition) how to choose a lens to use, or more accurately how to pick the right focal length to use.  Because different focal lengths change the relationship between foreground and background elements in the scene.  Wide angle lengths distort and expand and long focal lengths compress and enclose.

 

*Snip*

 

Ever read the small notice on a rear view mirror of a car, where it says "objects in the mirror are closer than they appear".  That's because of the mirror's curved surface.  It's a similar concept with focal lengths, where wide angle lenses tend to make closer elements appear much larger than what's in the background and where long telephoto lenses make background elements in the distance appear closer than they are.  I'm not implying that these effects on a image are bad.  They can be useful creatively, but if you're going for the neutral look in a portrait (where the person you are photographing should appear natural) you need to be able to pick a proper focal length to use.

I have seen that most people recomend something around 50-80mm for portraits, and have seen videoes about why.

I may do some potraits, but its probably not going to be the only thing I am going to do.

 

The site I used to look at buying a used camera for cheaper is the largest one in Norway and is in Norwegian, it is sort of like craigslist (I think)in Norway but it is safer, but less shady but the DSLR/Mirorless part of the site is:

http://m.finn.no/bap/forsale/search.html?q=kamera&search_type=SEARCH_ID_BAP_ALL&category=0.93&sub_category=1.93.3904&product_category=2.93.3904.66

 

18 minutes ago, ALwin said:

I'm trying to point out that right now, for you as a beginner, it is more important to learn and understand the concepts of photography rather than worry about the camera you buy.  Because by the time you've become confident, proficient, skilled, knowledgeable, experienced enough to make use of a camera's full potential, the camera you buy now will most likely be outdated and you'll probably be wanting to upgrade to something that matches your skills.

I know, I am not looking for the best camera, I just want a camera that does not have big faults, like not having a mic input AND beeing to expensive for me to not aford a audio recorder at top (like Sony a6000) or not having any lens less than 50mm.

 

also I am not 100% sure if I want to buy camera now, or in a year. I have to decide.

I also do not want to waste too much of anyones time.

[ALwin]

11 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

snip

OK, well from the four cameras you've listed how much does each cost?

 

If you're into saving as much of your own money as possible but still want as much as you can get, perhaps the 550D with the extra lenses, mic and other things might be suitable for you.  Because if you by another kit you will have to spend more money to get other accessories.  Though, of course you understand that the 550D is not the best camera out there.

 

It's a balance you have to make between cost and quality.  Both Canon and Nikon and other brands make very good cameras, reliable, works.  Sure some people have encountered faults, but this is the norm when products are mass produced.

 

Additionally if I haven't mentioned it previously, please read this guide on buying used cameras if you haven't done so already.

https://photographylife.com/how-to-buy-used-dslr-cameras

 

Addendum

Maybe instead of looking at the price of the camera kits first, perhaps look at the gear you would like to have and figure out which is the best way to acquire them.  For example, if you are certain you need, without being specific in exact numbers:

• 1x camera body (with mic input)
• 1x on-camera mountable mic
• 1x a mid range zoom lens (e.g. something that covers the focal range of 20-50mm)
• 1x a nice telephoto zoom lens (e.g something that covers around 80-150mm)

look for kits that have a combination of items that will fulfill those criteria or see how much buying items separately costs.

 

[.spider.]

56 minutes ago, Mihle Gaming said:

The biggest differece is the screen right?

 

I guess I have to choose between:

D5100 with just the kit lens

600D with kit lens (almost new)

600D with 50mm and a 70-300mm

550D with kit lens + 18-135mm lens + 50mm + mic + blitz + some small things

Yes, also make sure that the shutter count of the used cameras is not too high since the shutter will not last forever. 

The only problem is to read out the count (for Canon the service can read it out and Magic Lantern can) so you'll have to trust the seller. 

[Mihle]

2 hours ago, ALwin said:

*snip*

 

I have only seen one that sells camera with mic, and I noticed that he lives on the other side of the country.

but when it comes to lenses, what of these two would be the best choice:

 

Tamron AF 18-270 F3.5-6.3Di-II
Nikon AF-S Nikkor DX 35mm f/1.8G

or

Nikkor 18-55mm f3.5-5.2  VR II
Nikkor 55-200mm f4-5.6 (VR)

 

2 hours ago, .spider. said:

Yes, also make sure that the shutter count of the used cameras is not too high since the shutter will not last forever. 

The only problem is to read out the count (for Canon the service can read it out and Magic Lantern can) so you'll have to trust the seller. 

Doesnt PhotoME show the shutter count?

I am not 100% sure what you mean?